: How much coolant



1996p71
05-16-10, 08:58 PM
Just got finished putting a engine in my car a 2000 dts.I wanted to know if I was putting enough coolant in the system and if I was doing it right.I started off with 2 gallons of antifreeze is that enough I noticed the coolant capacity is 10.1 qts which means I need another quart.what's the correct fill procedure cap on or off?

Ranger
05-16-10, 10:42 PM
Fill it to the halfway point in the surge tank. Start the engine and rev to 3 - 4K a few times to purge any air in the system. Top off as necessary. Rev it again and check it. Once it has stabilized, cap it up before it reaches operating temp and overflows. Check it again after the nest 2 or 3 drives in case it still needs a little top off.

You never get all the coolant out of it when you drain it. That's why the discrepancy.

1996p71
05-17-10, 12:52 AM
Well when I was revving it up the coolant level didn't go anywhere it just sat there.I also put the heat on and didn't feel anything.When I am revving it up is the cap supposed to be on or off?about how long does it take to fill the system and about how many gallons?

Submariner409
05-17-10, 12:59 PM
The coolant reservoir is extremely low-flow. You'll never see coolant "moving" in there except for the flow from the purge line (NOT the overflow line, if any.). If that does not emit a steady flow of coolant (remove it and hold the end in the tank neck), it's clogged somewhere, maybe all the way back at the hollow bolt/nipple at the water pump housing.

I believe the entire system holds right at 3 gallons if the whole thing was drained dry.

Ranger
05-17-10, 01:29 PM
Well when I was revving it up the coolant level didn't go anywhere it just sat there.
Then it's probably full.

about how long does it take to fill the system
As long as it takes to pour in coolant, rev the engine a few times and top it off.

1996p71
05-17-10, 07:32 PM
well today i went and filled it up with another half gallon which makes 2 1/2 gallons.The heat started working and all and the funny thing was when i filled it up cold this morning there was nothing in there.Do the caddys only suck in coolant once the car is off because when its running it just sits the lower radiator to water pump hose never got hot just the upper hose.Ive never had a car that was this difficult to fill i figured maybe because the engine was dry.Another thing i let it run for about a half hour and the needle started moving pass the middle then i cut the heat on and it returned im puzzled

1996p71
05-17-10, 07:35 PM
and whats this purge line and overflow line is that the thing coming out the reservoir

Submariner409
05-17-10, 11:35 PM
Depending on your cooling system configuration there is/are one/two hoses coming off the coolant reservoir: If one hose comes off the neck area and drops down toward the pavement that's an overflow line. If another hose comes off the upper side area of the reservoir jar itself and runs under the engine beauty cover to a bolt nipple at the water pump housing, that's a purge line: It is designed to pass off air and gasses from the coolant into the normal airspace in the reservoir. It's the mechanism which insures that the coolant contains no air bubbles, thereby increasing heat transfer and lowering water pump cavitation. As posted, the proper coolant level is halfway up in the reservoir, COLD. Don't attempt to adjust coolant level with the engine hot - screw that cap on and leave it alone until the engine is cold.

Ranger
05-17-10, 11:51 PM
Do the caddys only suck in coolant once the car is off
No. It fills as you fill the surge tank, but the drier it is, the harder it is to purge all the air. Last time I did a coolant change on mine it took 3 drives to finally stabilize it. Not sure where the air hides or how it does not get purged right away (sometimes it does).

1996p71
05-18-10, 10:33 AM
and why does my lower hose to water pump stay cold

1996p71
05-18-10, 10:56 AM
and forgot to add the heat is hot as hell it doesnt overheat or nothing the hose just stays cold

Submariner409
05-18-10, 11:37 AM
Under what conditions does the lower radiator hose stay "cold" ? Idling in the driveway is one thing - after a 10 mile highway run is another.

MOST of the coolant flow, during initial warmup and driveaway, is through the heater core. That core is a very efficient miniature radiator, and with heat and temperature set at, say 75 degrees, the heater will literally do most of the engine cooling in cool/cold weather. It takes time to heat up the whole engine - that's a big chunk of metal - and the thermostat doesn't even begin to open until the coolant hits 188 degrees - that's HOT - and it's not fully open until 206 degrees which is 6 degrees below boiling at atmospheric pressure; stick your finger in a pan of boiling water - that's about how hot your coolant normally runs. You would be amazed at just how little coolant really circulates through a Northstar radiator.

..........and remember; if you have the HVAC set to AUTO or A/C ON then the heater passes off even more heat because that incoming air is COLD and the blend doors open toward more heat to compensate.

1996p71
05-18-10, 03:11 PM
well it happens while idling i havent took it on the highway yet so i dont know didnt know youre in maryland submariner im in bmore but is this like a thermostat issue and can it do any damage

tateos
05-18-10, 03:54 PM
Did you add 2 gallons of antifreeze, full strength? Or was it already diluted 50%?

Submariner409
05-18-10, 04:09 PM
We hope he's using a 50/50 coolant to distilled water mixture.

The first time you shut down and the system cooled and the reservoir was empty is perfectly normal - just maintain the coolant (50/50 mix) at halfway up in the reservoir, cold - after one or two checks it will stay there for years with no attention.

Take the car out and drive it. You'll never determine a thing with it sitting at idle for extended periods, and that's not doing the engine or cat any good, either.

Your temp gauge should sit at about 12:00, and if you get stuck in traffic it will edge toward 1:00 and fans will go to SLOW (if you have no A/C function set, in which case fans run in SLOW all the time). If your fans are running in the driveway at idle (an A/C function is set) the engine will never heat up from a cold start.

tateos
05-18-10, 07:04 PM
Sub - I think your last statement might be off the off the mark - the thermostat should still regulate the coolant temp

Submariner409
05-18-10, 08:15 PM
Until the coolant reaches 188 the thermostat stays closed and almost ALL coolant flows through the heater core via the thermostat bypass. On a cool day with A/C commanded the engine will take forever to warm up at idle. The bottom hose will stay cold or cool for a very long time in this case.

tateos
05-18-10, 08:20 PM
Mmm-maybe the hose and rad will stay cool - I think the engine will warm up normally, except for the slight air cooling effect from the fans.

1996p71
05-20-10, 09:55 AM
well i cant say its cold just not as hot as the top hose

Submariner409
05-20-10, 10:43 AM
It had better NOT be as hot as the top hose - that's what a radiator (heat exchanger) is for: to lower the temperature of the cooling medium from input to outlet !!!

If the coolant leaves the engine at, say, 205 degrees and travels to the passenger side of the radiator (Northstar system) it then goes through the radiator core, passing heat off to the airflow through the radiator fins/core tubes. If all's well the coolant exiting the radiator is significantly "cooler" than when it went in - maybe down to as low as 130 - 140. It depends on the engine load, therefore heat generation, therefore heat transfer.

A curious phenomenon: high speed airflow through a radiator, as in airflow boosted by too many fans/speed, will not cool as well as a lower speed airflow: the quickly moving air is not in contact with the radiator surfaces long enough to pick up the maximum amount of heat possible, so with high speed airflows you actually lose cooling efficiency; same with water pumps - too much water (coolant) flow and heat transfer goes down, not up.

Ranger
05-20-10, 11:56 AM
Interesting point Sub. I guess that would mean the system is not as efficient at 70 MPH (or even 50).

Submariner409
05-20-10, 01:14 PM
"High speed airflow" is relative.......suppose LOW speed fans move air at some volume over the radiator coil at - 30 mph. Maybe high speed fans move it at 60. Not a problem. Quite a few engines which use electric fan cooling controlled by the PCM/ECT sensor will drop fans altogether above 40 or 45 mph - the cooling assist isn't needed. My point was that extra cooling assists are not needed: the present systems are designed to remove the amount of engine heat created by friction and combustion necessary to prevent overheating. The whole engine would be "happier' and more efficient if it could run at 300 degrees - not intake air temps - the engine, but we're not into coolant systems pressurized to 400 or more psi.

Look at air-cooled aircraft engines - some of those monsters run around at 425 mph - BUT the cowls and cylinder shrouding are designed to keep air in contact with the cylinder and head cooling fins as long as possible, and they can run some cylinder head temps that would curl your hair. (Not so with the liquid-cooled V-12's and V-16's - they use(d) some pretty sophisticated radiators and oil coolers.)

1996p71
05-20-10, 02:14 PM
thanks for that understanding submariner

bes stroked nova
05-21-10, 01:00 AM
I been having the same issue after replacing my clogged Radiator.

I fixed the car Tuesday, drove it. let it cool, and refilled the system. Been driving it. Then today I get about 120 miles on it after the change out, and it overheated.

This is when I found and noticed NO heat come from the vents. so I said OK. Took the lines off for the heater core. NO coolant. Took my blow gun and tried blowing it out and nothing back out the other side. After working with it to get it sealed, chunks of stuff came out and then I got coolant out the other side.

I refilled the system again. NOW I am unsure of where the temp gauge should run at, but it goes to about 1:00 and jumps around a little. At this point it goes above that some, and the lower hose and heater core hoses are now cold again.

This thing is the only car that has kicked my a**. any idea's N* guys?

Submariner409
05-21-10, 11:25 AM
Post #15. The gauge should sit pretty still at about 12:00. The thermostat starts at 188 and is fully open by 206. With no A/C function commanded, fans go to Slow at 224 and FAST at 236; with A/C set, fans run in SLOW all the time.

Someone put some sort of sealer in the cooling system - that's the heater core problem and there will be others.

tateos
05-22-10, 12:41 AM
Sub's right about the sealer, bes stroked nova. Did you put it in? How long have you had the car? I hope you didn't just buy it and a previous owner had HG problems and put in some rectum seal as a band-aid long enough to dump the car. I hope...

1996p71
05-22-10, 08:27 PM
well after taking it out for a drive noticed something i have a small coolant leak coming from near my oil pan and also i have a power steering leak near the passenger wheel when im driving my temp gauge moves sometimes from twelve oclock to right before 12:30 and i noticed only one of my fans work