: LS9 cam on the way



DrumStix
04-21-10, 02:12 PM
Just as the title says. Much bigger cam and it should really wake the V up with the 10% crank swap I'm doing at the same time. Install appt is 5/14.

dqw1
04-21-10, 03:54 PM
That might be too much power. j/k
Please post a video when you get done.

DrumStix
04-21-10, 03:55 PM
LOL. I'll get a video.

1-2-N-V
04-21-10, 04:20 PM
subscribed:thumbsup:

backup
04-21-10, 05:00 PM
I know this has been discussed before, but in my reserach the LS9 cam still seems a bit mild? no? Can do a more aggressive cam with stock heads and still idle and drive well I think. Would like to know your opinion on this.

CTSV4now
04-21-10, 05:28 PM
do you have specs on LSA cam and LS9 cam?

thebigjimsho
04-21-10, 06:27 PM
Too much power.

Operations
04-21-10, 08:16 PM
:thumbsup:

backup
04-21-10, 09:42 PM
From my research, the LSA cam is this:
198/216 0.480"/0.480"

the LS9 cam is this:
211/230 0.562"/0.558"

I think they both have the same lobe separation angle also (117?), which means the overlap is nearly identical (I think, can somebody confirm this?). This is an important parameter in a FI engine.

From those that have run the LS9 cam the report is it is still 'mild'. There are also reports from various sources that more aggressive cams still run and idle near stock but add more power. My big concern is how do they work with the stock LSA heads (many who have gone with >LS9 cams have also done heads) and how they run at high rpm (springs and float and ramp rates and all kinds of conerns that I am no expert to decipher).

I am about this --><-- close to pulling the trigger on a package that includes the W4M .604 lift cam which I think would rock!

DrumStix
04-21-10, 09:46 PM
I know this has been discussed before, but in my reserach the LS9 cam still seems a bit mild? no? Can do a more aggressive cam with stock heads and still idle and drive well I think. Would like to know your opinion on this.

$95 experiment in stock drivability while surfing the net at lunch today. I'm not looking for something too burly in the V. Cams go in, cams come out. The difference between these two cams is pretty huge.

DrumStix
04-21-10, 09:46 PM
From my research, the LSA cam is this:
198/216 0.480"/0.480"

the LS9 cam is this:
211/230 0.562"/0.558"

I think they both have the same lobe separation angle also (117?), which means the overlap is nearly identical (I think, can somebody confirm this?). This is an important parameter in a FI engine.

From those that have run the LS9 cam the report is it is still 'mild'. There are also reports from various sources that more aggressive cams still run and idle near stock but add more power. My big concern is how do they work with the stock LSA heads (many who have gone with >LS9 cams have also done heads) and how they run at high rpm (springs and float and ramp rates and all kinds of conerns that I am no expert to decipher).

I am about this --><-- close to pulling the trigger on a package that includes the W4M .604 lift cam which I think would rock!

The LSA and LS9 are more like 120.5 - 121 on both cams. I don't think GM has done much under 119 on any of the LSX motors, at least in the cars.
You can go WAY up on the duration as long at you maintain a wide LSA in a split duration cam and retain great drivability. I want quick cylinder filling and I will get that with this cam. I also want good bottom end with this heavier car and this cam will retain that. What is making you consider a .604 cam, if you please? Lift is not the most important number on a cam, especially a blower cam. Do you know the other numbers?
I'm also adding 918's and chrome moly push rods so she'll be stout like Guiness. I'll be bumping the limiter more towards 6600 as well, to match the LS9. The rockers are the same in both cars.

DrumStix
04-21-10, 09:49 PM
Too much power.

Ahahahaha, you kill me. :thumbsup:

glgjr
04-21-10, 10:17 PM
Too much power.

I guess this is your schtick?

Karch
04-21-10, 11:02 PM
Overlap is not solely dependent on LSA. If you have increased duration with the same LSA, you will have more overlap.

BTW, these heads love lift. Have you seen the flow data at lifts above 0.500".

If I were to go through the effort of installing a new cam, it certainly would not be a cam from the factory, as they make too many compromises. Just my 2 cents.

Sure, they've tested them well enough, but they also put in too much cushiion with regards to valvetrain wear and noise, emissions, and driveability for all the potential owners.

Also, bear in mind that the LS9 is designed for a car that weighs a half-ton less than a V. Just be sure to do your homework, and best of luck.

I'm sure it will improve quite a bit, but I think there are much better options out there.

DrumStix
04-21-10, 11:17 PM
Overlap is not solely dependent on LSA. If you have increased duration with the same LSA, you will have more overlap.

BTW, these heads love lift. Have you seen the flow data at lifts above 0.500".

If I were to go through the effort of installing a new cam, it certainly would not be a cam from the factory, as they make too many compromises. Just my 2 cents.

Sure, they've tested them well enough, but they also put in too much cushiion with regards to valvetrain wear and noise, emissions, and driveability for all the potential owners.

Also, bear in mind that the LS9 is designed for a car that weighs a half-ton less than a V. Just be sure to do your homework, and best of luck.

I'm sure it will improve quite a bit, but I think there are much better options out there.

Good, get your wallet out and make your purchase. :thumbsup:
EVERYTHING has a set of compromises.
You will not have more overlap if you split the durations WIDER apart as in the LS9 cam. It all depends on when the opening and closing events occur. You could have a 210/235 cam with nearly no overlap. If you tighten them up you can get more overlap but will increase exhaust scavaging, which is not necessarily a bad thing. It also depends on the advance ground in. Are we going deep into cam theory now?
Most of what they've done on the LS9 cam, to extend your theory, was split the duration wider, causing a lengthened time for cylinder filling and a broader power band. That should more than make up for the torque band changes and the LS9 cam's LSA is much wider so I'm sure it will haul this car around just fine. They also kept the lift reasonable for longevity and to prevent the thing from eating itself in 10,000 miles. So with lower durations and a wider LSA, I am going to have early cylinder filling over a wider range while retaining acceptable mileage and bottom end. There is a lot more I can do with this car than throw a stupid ass big cam in there to kill mileage, drivability, engine vacuum under coast, bottom end, valve springs and so on. But, If I feel like it, I can add 1.85's in an hour and a half to bump the lift to .612.
So, are you getting a 244/250 cam on a 113 with .620? Remember, most of the cams are made for lighter cars. :highfive:

BTW, there is no trouble for me installing this cam. I just don't want to have "too much power," lol.

Karch
04-21-10, 11:25 PM
Good, get your wallet out and make your purchase. :thumbsup:
EVERYTHING has a set of compromises. Most of what they've done on the LS9 cam, to extend your theory, was split the duration wider, causing a lengthened time for cylinder filling and a broader power band. That should more than make up for the torque band changes and the LS9 cam's LSA is much wider so I'm sure it will haul this car around just fine. They also kept the lift reasonable for longevity and to prevent the thing from eating itself in 10,000 miles. So with lower durations and a wider LSA, I am going to have early cylinder filling over a wider range while retaining acceptable mileage and bottom end. There is a lot more I can do with this car than throw a stupid ass big cam in there to kill mileage, drivability, engine vacuum under coast, bottom end, valve springs and so on. But, If I feel like it, I can add 1.85's in an hour and a half to bump the lift to .612.
So, are you getting a 244/250 cam on a 113 with .620? Remember, most of the cams are made for lighter cars. :highfive:

BTW, there is no trouble for me installing this cam. I just don't want to have "too much power," lol.

Obviously, you took my post personally, which is too bad, as it wasn't meant to be mean-spirited at all.

I personally like faster ramps, not too much duration, and relatively wide LSA's, but how would you know that?

I also like lighter valvetrain components so you can run lighter springs, which allows for everything else to last longer, assuming everything else stays the same.

Anyways, rather than getting into a grudge, I'll just leave it like I did my previous post, best of luck. That is not, nor was it, to imply that you'll need the luck, it's that I only wish you good luck with it. I truly hope you enjoy the changes (and the tune that goes along with the new cam).

DrumStix
04-21-10, 11:34 PM
Obviously, you took my post personally, which is too bad, as it wasn't meant to be mean-spirited at all.

I personally like faster ramps, not too much duration, and relatively wide LSA's, but how would you know that?

I also like lighter valvetrain components so you can run lighter springs, which allows for everything else to last longer, assuming everything else stays the same.

Anyways, rather than getting into a grudge, I'll just leave it like I did my previous post, best of luck. That is not, nor was it, to imply that you'll need the luck, it's that I only wish you good luck with it. I truly hope you enjoy the changes (and the tune that goes along with the new cam).

Why do you quote while I'm still editing? ;)

I'm not pissed. You showed one side of the coin, I showed the other. It sounds like an LS9 cam may be for you with what you just described. Thanks for the well wishes and I'm sure I'll enjoy it (and the tune).

Gary Wells
04-22-10, 05:55 AM
Actually, I've heard some very good reports and of some very satisfied customers / users of the LS9 cam in the LSA, so I think that you might be quite happy with it as a 1st choice. I have also heard of it as being mild, but people have a tendency to describe a cam as mild or aggressive as in relationship to what they want. Doesn't matter if you are happy with your choice. HTH

cbloveday
04-22-10, 07:29 AM
I am HAPPY with mine.

Prof
04-22-10, 08:37 AM
Interesting thread...some informative posts...a little communication lag...and some mature step-backs to get back on track!

This kind of "single person dialogue" is difficult at best...but we are doing pretty well!

Is there specific detail available for the cam that W4me has just installed in the 650 rwhp build he just completed?

cbloveday
04-22-10, 08:53 AM
I personally would like some to see the specs on the LS9 clone I have and the new one that was used in the 650 rwhp build. Jesse told me about a cam he started using with good results. Not sure if Andrewperez (653rwhp) has the one that Jesse mentioned to me.

I personally do not want any more cabin shake than what is already present. After all, it is a cadillac.

DrumStix
04-27-10, 10:43 AM
I'd like to keep it Cadi smooth too guys, and it should not be difficult to do yet build decent power.

GMPartsdirect is out of the LS9 cam indefinitely. I just ordered through Lingenfelter.

demorgan59
04-27-10, 01:49 PM
The "LS9 clone" Comp Cam (Jesse calls it his "mild" cam) is .554"/.546" @1.7 ratio, 208/230 @ .050" and 121 LSA. Ramp speeds are slightly more aggresive than OEM.

I love this cam. Just a bit more cabin quiver at idle, but still very Caddy-like. Plus, you can just hear it in the exhaust at idle with the AR headers and stock mufflers and it doesn't kill the gas mileage. Personally, I think going any bigger is overkill as I'm at 620 RWHP detuned. Jesse's tune is spot on - he has THE combination nailed.

andrewperez
04-27-10, 02:06 PM
My cam is Jesse's 600" lift design. I agreed to keep the rest of the profile info at his discretion. It's basically up to him if he wants that revealed.

My car obviously makes more of a statement at idle, but its not overly aggressive or "stock car" like in any sense.

If there is anything that people comment on about my Caddy is that it's a bit loud......but my comment is what do you expect from 650+ rw. Besides, it's my car, it was my decision....and I LOVE IT :spin:

cbloveday
04-27-10, 02:15 PM
My cam is Jesse's 600" lift design. I agreed to keep the rest of the profile info at his discretion. It's basically up to him if he wants that revealed.

My car obviously makes more of a statement at idle, but its not overly aggressive or "stock car" like in any sense.

If there is anything that people comment on about my Caddy is that it's a bit loud......but my comment is what do you expect from 650+ rw. Besides, it's my car, it was my decision....and I LOVE IT :spin:

What nerve,
what arrogance,
what audacity,

I salute you!

DrumStix
04-27-10, 02:15 PM
The "LS9 clone" Comp Cam (Jesse calls it his "mild" cam) is .554"/.546" @1.7 ratio, 208/230 @ .050" and 121 LSA. Ramp speeds are slightly more aggresive than OEM.

I love this cam. Just a bit more cabin quiver at idle, but still very Caddy-like. Plus, you can just hear it in the exhaust at idle with the AR headers and stock mufflers and it doesn't kill the gas mileage. Personally, I think going any bigger is overkill as I'm at 620 RWHP detuned. Jesse's tune is spot on - he has THE combination nailed.

They stopped selling the LS9 clone and are selling the true LS9 cam in its' stead due to it's decreased price via higher volume. 211/230.

What are all of your mods, if you don't mind me asking?

DrumStix
04-27-10, 02:22 PM
My cam is Jesse's 600" lift design. I agreed to keep the rest of the profile info at his discretion. It's basically up to him if he wants that revealed.

My car obviously makes more of a statement at idle, but its not overly aggressive or "stock car" like in any sense.

If there is anything that people comment on about my Caddy is that it's a bit loud......but my comment is what do you expect from 650+ rw. Besides, it's my car, it was my decision....and I LOVE IT :spin:

In my experience there is really no value in keeping cam specs secret these days. Not good marketing at all and it has been proven to work against vendors, unless they plan on only installing 1-2 in customers car who are running the TX mile or something. I don't like hype, I like facts. Call me a republican then I guess. :cool2:

Sounds like you have a great combo there. Like I said, I personally am not going to over stress the valve train as I don't see a need for it. Not saying you are either but it's something for all to consider. With these small torque converters and lower TCM shift points, a big cam is not in the cards for me.

demorgan59
04-27-10, 03:33 PM
W4M Intake with modded stock airbox and K&N, heat exchanger & 160 Tstat, ported TB, snout, blower and heads, larger injectors, AR headers with stock mufflers, aforementioned cam, 9 1/2" pulley and tune.

Ziggerman
04-29-10, 07:41 PM
DrumStix, if you dyno your beast when you're done, why not do it in FV again? Would love to just stand next to it and enjoy the sounds of your hard work and dollars :thumbsup:

cbloveday
04-29-10, 09:21 PM
W4M Intake with modded stock airbox and K&N, heat exchanger & 160 Tstat, ported TB, snout, blower and heads, larger injectors, AR headers with stock mufflers, aforementioned cam, 9 1/2" pulley and tune.

Everything the vwhip needs! :highfive:

DrumStix
05-02-10, 08:49 PM
DrumStix, if you dyno your beast when you're done, why not do it in FV again? Would love to just stand next to it and enjoy the sounds of your hard work and dollars :thumbsup:

I probably won't get back to S.A.P. prior to the install unless we can get out there this coming weekend so it'll probably go right to RPM for the install (not tackling another cam in my lifetime cause I'm sick of it) then I'll dyno tune it. The difference is it'll be warmer and on a different dyno so no real apples to apples. In the end, I'm sure I'll go back to the S.A.P. dyno in a couple week and hopefully MSJ can be there to video it.

GMX322V S/C
05-02-10, 10:14 PM
This is so tempting. I haven't thought about a camshaft change here in CARB-land since the late 70's, but if a ZR1 can be a 50-state car, I gotta believe a tuned LSA with this stick in it could also pass smog here...

liqidvenom
05-02-10, 11:16 PM
Too much power.

doesnt exist if the vehicle has a sounds chassis. so are you saying the V2 doesnt have a good chassis?

thebigjimsho
05-02-10, 11:22 PM
Sounds like we have a chassis expert here...

thebigjimsho
05-02-10, 11:23 PM
...not...

liqidvenom
05-03-10, 12:11 AM
and i guess its a given you are an expert on everything.... or at least you like to think so.

DrumStix
05-03-10, 10:33 AM
This is so tempting. I haven't thought about a camshaft change here in CARB-land since the late 70's, but if a ZR1 can be a 50-state car, I gotta believe a tuned LSA with this stick in it could also pass smog here...


The sniffer would never know the difference. I lived out there for 15 years comrad. :highfive:

DrumStix
05-03-10, 10:34 AM
Why the bitchin in the LS9 cam thread? :thepan:

wait4me
05-03-10, 01:54 PM
An ls9 exact cam is fine to use in these cars, I just choose to modify it a little to make it better for our HEAVY cars on the zr1 "clone" cam we sell. Same as the 604 lift cam we make. It is close to specs of a zr1, except 604 lift and set up for 4600lbs instead of 3000.....

:)

DrumStix
05-03-10, 02:21 PM
An ls9 exact cam is fine to use in these cars, I just choose to modify it a little to make it better for our HEAVY cars on the zr1 "clone" cam we sell. Same as the 604 lift cam we make. It is close to specs of a zr1, except 604 lift and set up for 4600lbs instead of 3000.....

:)

cool. So less duration and an even wider LSA on the .604 to increase torque?

thebigjimsho
05-03-10, 07:48 PM
and i guess its a given you are an expert on everything.... or at least you like to think so.
That statement goes both ways, mister...

liqidvenom
05-03-10, 08:19 PM
That statement goes both ways, mister...

point for you sir

DrumStix
05-03-10, 08:44 PM
Good, keep score yourselves, I just want the Lakers to LUZE!

thebigjimsho
05-03-10, 10:12 PM
Good, keep score yourselves, I just want the Lakers to LUZE!
AGREED!!! :yup:

Karch
05-03-10, 10:20 PM
What's the deal with the Lakers? They've been playing lousy, but Denver and Dallas are out, so hopefully they can get into the Finals, again, and take care of business.

GO LAKERS! :thepan:

6speeder
05-04-10, 09:21 AM
This is interesting. The LS9 cam is VERY SIMILAR to the stock LS7 cam. Same durations and LSA, but with .562/.558" lift Vs the LS7 having .592". I wonder how the LS7 cam would play?:stirpot:

wait4me
05-04-10, 04:59 PM
The ls7 rocker arms are different ratios, making the lift different.

DrumStix
05-04-10, 10:06 PM
Yup, intake on the LS7 is .558 with 1.7's. or ~.328 lift from base circle, 1:1.

LS9 cam with 1.85's! :stirpot::stirpot:

6speeder
05-05-10, 09:19 AM
You're right, different rocker arm ratios. Sounds like the LS9 cam=LS7 cam.

GMX322V S/C
05-08-10, 03:55 PM
DrumStix, just curious if you are going to change any other valvetrain components or run stock? The LS9 has titanium intake valves and hollow exhaust valves, although the LSA has a lower redline--think they'll offset?

DrumStix
05-09-10, 10:25 AM
DrumStix, just curious if you are going to change any other valvetrain components or run stock? The LS9 has titanium intake valves and hollow exhaust valves, although the LSA has a lower redline--think they'll offset?

I'm not sure what you are asking. Are you asking if I'm changing the valves because I'm changing the cam? I am changing valves springs and going to hardened aftermarket push rods for a bit of insurance but there is not need to consider changing valves themselves.

GMX322V S/C
05-09-10, 02:18 PM
Sorry, I should have asked if you were changing the springs, retainers, rockers, etc, to compensate for the LS9 having lighter valves. I didn't know if you needed to compensate with stiffer springs or other lighter valvetrain components on the LSA--or since the LSA has a lower redline, is it a moot point. So you will be changing springs; how does one go about choosing the right ones? Too weak, you float, too stiff, you wear out valve seats, cam lobes, etc, faster, right?

DrumStix
05-09-10, 05:28 PM
The rockers are the same in the LS9. All of your assumptions are accurate. Too weak you float or snap springs, to stiff and you lose HP unnecessarily, and could wear cam lobes but that is very rare with these roller lifters and the rockwell scale of these cams. I would look at a parts issue/defect if a 918 spring damaged a lobe, likely lifter condition first as a cause. The 918 has the right seat pressure (130 closed) for such a mild cam and is actually borderline from even being required. I'm adding them for some longevity and will be bumping the limiter to around 6600.

Anyone else change push rods with their cam in the V2? I know the LSX p-rods have been pretty bullet proof since about 2002.

MSJ
05-10-10, 11:58 PM
I probably won't get back to S.A.P. prior to the install unless we can get out there this coming weekend so it'll probably go right to RPM for the install (not tackling another cam in my lifetime cause I'm sick of it) then I'll dyno tune it. The difference is it'll be warmer and on a different dyno so no real apples to apples. In the end, I'm sure I'll go back to the S.A.P. dyno in a couple week and hopefully MSJ can be there to video it.

DrumStix, let's slap that puppy on the rollers :lildevil: Did you get it back from RPM yet? They slapped a 200 NX kit on a Lingenfelter C6 Z06 I bought. When I bought the car from a buddy I actually had them take it off. They are great guys and build some of the fastest LSx cars. Most of my work is done at Mayhem Motorsports who just moved to North Raleigh.

My next mods are some frickin' shoes. I'm surprised the PS2's lasted 14k miles. we need to get a dyno day soon and a track day before it gets too hot.

DrumStix
05-11-10, 10:10 AM
DrumStix, let's slap that puppy on the rollers :lildevil: Did you get it back from RPM yet? They slapped a 200 NX kit on a Lingenfelter C6 Z06 I bought. When I bought the car from a buddy I actually had them take it off. They are great guys and build some of the fastest LSx cars. Most of my work is done at Mayhem Motorsports who just moved to North Raleigh.

My next mods are some frickin' shoes. I'm surprised the PS2's lasted 14k miles. we need to get a dyno day soon and a track day before it gets too hot.

It goes under the knife at 4:00 today. Are you around this Saturday?

Get some new Jordan's on that bitch. When mine are shot I'm probably dipping the stockers in black chrome as well. I wish I'd known where Mayhem was but I'll get them a call today just to see what's up. They are likely closer to me.

MSJ
05-12-10, 12:50 AM
aye cap'n! I'm in town this weekend... I think..LOL I'll buzz the shop tomorrow to see if the dyno is clear. My shoes are shot, new tires go on after your dyno session. I'll get some vid of your car on the dyno and you can film the last of my ps2's...lol

I'm actually going to do a photo shoot with a 1909 Cadillac soon as well. It won Lowe's show last year and was at amelia this year. It should make a nice "100 years of Cadillac" shoot. buzz me at the office when u get the beast back.

DrumStix
05-12-10, 08:11 AM
Lemme know dude. I was going to tint on Saturday but would rather get all the dyno tuning sorted out. I can take my time over there and get it perfect.

We need some dyno film to post here. :thumbsup:

MSJ
05-13-10, 04:58 PM
drumstix, we're in :) Dyno is clear on Saturday. let me know if there is a particular time you want to go and I'll block that hour or so off. We even have the eddy current up now as well so we can tune on the inertia or eddy current and slap some road force on there.

cheers! mike

DrumStix
05-13-10, 05:29 PM
She's almost out of surgery. I went in and took a couple pics on my camera phone as he was swapping out the last 918's. Cam is in, balancer and pulley are on. I pick it up in the morning.

I was going to get the tint done after running over to have Jamie swap out to some Amsoil rear diff fluid but instead, would like to/need to get some pulls in. Is 10 AM cool?

Note to all that want the cam. The LSA requires a new upper timing sprocket due to the 3 vs 1 bolt pattern in the LS7 and LS9 motors.


D3 springs and black out trim pieces also ordered. :devil:

MSJ
05-13-10, 11:01 PM
how about 10:30? I've got a quick errand to run in the morning and then I can head straight to the shop and rack the v on the roller. I'll have hd cam in hand and we can post up after it's dialed in.

DrumStix
05-14-10, 08:39 AM
Sweet, 10:30 it is then. I'll just get a quick pass on the RPM dyno this afternoon to make sure A/F is between 10 an 11.5:1 and we'll do the apples to apples comparison on the SAP dyno tomorrow. You know where that local dunkin donuts it, right? Also, Let's get Ziggerman and others to come out.

DrumStix
05-14-10, 01:05 PM
Just got the car back and it's bad azz. For starters, RPM did a very professional job on the install and took care of my car while it stayed a couple nights in their shop.

The torque is fantastic but I'm not taking it past 3500 and part throttle until I tune it on the dyno in the morning. We'll see if it's "too much power." :) Cam lope is non-existent so if you guys want something that's a give away for mods under the hood, this cam won't do it. It's a sleeper. Idle quality has actually improved. I had just a little cabin shake every couple seconds prior to these mods and I think that was due to the less than spectacular stock plugs. With the TR6's in there there is literally no shake at all now. Sitting there holding the wheel you think the car is off.
Also noted is that the D3 9.5" pulley/damper is 4 lbs 10 oz lighter than the stock damper, as advertised. I was kinda stunned when I weighed it this afternoon because it's still pretty heavy/beefy but their 5 lb lighter claim for a 9" pulley is likely very accurate. Less rotating mass = faster revs. 16 lbs 10 oz for stock, 12 lbs for the D3, 9.5" pulley attached.

Right now I'm ecstatic. I can't wait to stand on the gas.

DrumStix
05-14-10, 03:24 PM
The site won't let me edit my post right now so I'll make a new one. I will add that I think the smoother idle is not necessarily related to the a better plug quality as much as it is the new damper. This thing is somewhat better than the stocker in precision balancing.

GMX322V S/C
05-14-10, 05:32 PM
I'd be interested to see if the higher lift x duration has any effect on your expected max boost--in other words, your max net boost is somewhat less than you expect because you're actually getting more volume through the engine :eyebrow:

By the way, did they cap off the "P" valve (if you're expecting more than 12 PSI)?

DrumStix
05-14-10, 05:42 PM
I'd be interested to see if the higher lift x duration has any effect on your expected max boost--in other words, your max net boost is somewhat less than you expect because you're actually getting more volume through the engine :eyebrow:

By the way, did they cap off the "P" valve (if you're expecting more than 12 PSI)?

With stock exhaust I may see more than the anticipated 13 lbs but you are correct, the cam might suck the pressure right off the blower housing just like your favorite girlfriend.


I capped P and X a couple weeks ago.

cbloveday
05-14-10, 06:05 PM
too much power :)

MSJ
05-14-10, 09:46 PM
Keith, I'll see you in the a.m. I stopped by the shop this afternoon to make sure all was a go. good thing I did as the wideband sensor died. It's all good as I went and picked up a new one this evening. Oddly, it's a Caddy upstream sensor...LOL

there's a Mopar drag car in the bay, but i'll push it out when I get there. You'll get to see the almost $35k motor they just built and that was just cost of parts.

can't wait to see your ride after mods. hopefully ziggy and others see the post and come out. see you in the morning.

DrumStix
05-15-10, 03:03 PM
So here's a quick report. I made a few pulls today and started tuning. It's 94 degrees here so it's 40 degrees warmer than when I last dyno'ed. Without pushing it too hard today in this heat I jumped 62 RWHP and 65 RWT with a 10.1:1 AF ratio. Not too shabby. So the numbers are 551 RWHP and 535 RWT at 10.1:1 without any KR. As you can see, I have some more power left in there. I did a few more pulls and the TQE stayed the same, I got it leaned to 11:1 and just had a ton of heat soak so the HP number didn't climb. I decided to let it cool and go back another day. I can push that AF a little more and the timing has some left on the table as it never recorded any knock. It's safe for the street now and I'm satisfied with today's results. The pistons are intact so all is good in the world. :thumbsup:
Boost numbers were about 13 on the dyno and I noticed 14 on the street. Top end is nuts and the sound of the blower is righteous!
I'll scan the dyno sheet and edit some video for you guys.

DrumStix
05-15-10, 03:03 PM
Dupe.

GMX322V S/C
05-15-10, 03:48 PM
Nice. What are you running for an intake? Scanned the thread by didn't see a mention...

Karch
05-15-10, 04:51 PM
What are you shooting for on the a/f ratio? 11.8 or so?

Sounds great so far, glad you are enjoying it.

Where are you that it's so hot out? It is absolutely gorgeous weather in SoCal this week.

DrumStix
05-15-10, 06:10 PM
What are you shooting for on the a/f ratio? 11.8 or so?

Sounds great so far, glad you are enjoying it.

Where are you that it's so hot out? It is absolutely gorgeous weather in SoCal this week.

Yes, 11.8:1 max. I'll probably end up running 11.6:1 through the torque peak and not lean it too much beyond that.

I'm in Raleigh. It's always beautiful in SoCal. :hitstick: j/k

DrumStix
05-15-10, 06:12 PM
Nice. What are you running for an intake? Scanned the thread by didn't see a mention...

Presently 18 piece w4m intake. Imma toss the NEP one on for grinz soon as well.

Karch
05-15-10, 08:27 PM
Raleigh? I hear it's quite nice there. In fact, we are hoping to have a vacation to that area in a year or so (shhh..lots of golf courses :) )

DrumStix
05-15-10, 08:37 PM
Raleigh? I hear it's quite nice there. In fact, we are hoping to have a vacation to that area in a year or so (shhh..lots of golf courses :) )

Yeah, it's pretty nice here. It's worth a visit and yes, lots of golf. I used to live in CA. Far fewer commies here. ;)

DrumStix
05-17-10, 09:48 AM
Bump for Monday mornin folks.

94guy
09-12-10, 01:51 PM
drumstix, how do you like the ls9 cam? did you lose any lowend??

DrumStix
09-13-10, 12:29 AM
Love the cam. No loss of low end at all. It picked up 20 ft lbs off idle or so. When the car is warm I even get some lope when I let off and decel but none at startup since the idle is a little higher. It's very mild but it's nice to have a little reminder once in a while.

94guy
09-16-10, 07:17 AM
hey guys i'm new here. how much power is the ls9 cam worth? i hear 15 to 30 rwhp? thanks

DrumStix
09-16-10, 10:22 AM
30-35

94guy
09-16-10, 03:31 PM
really 30-35rwhp? alot of shops i've been talking to claim it's not worth the effort of the cam swap without putting something bigger?

GMX322V S/C
09-16-10, 08:12 PM
...unless you're already in there for something else :lildevil:

94guy
09-16-10, 09:03 PM
gmx322, do you know for sure if it's worth 30-35?

DrumStix
09-16-10, 10:19 PM
...unless you're already in there for something else :lildevil:
:lildevil::lildevil:

DrumStix
09-16-10, 10:21 PM
gmx322, do you know for sure if it's worth 30-35?

Of course. We both did it. Just compare ours to those with the same mods and no cam..

94guy
09-16-10, 10:23 PM
so is it really worth the 30rwhp? i don't get the little devil thing. i know i don't want a cam that is lopey. i have been thinking about a thunder racing 214-230 cam also.

GMX322V S/C
09-16-10, 11:42 PM
No, it's not lopey. It's hard to quantify the exact increase due to the cam alone, since it synergizes with other mods that improve flow through the engine--CAI, porting, headers, etc. But the ballpark sounds about right. The other characteristic not mentioned is the engine continues to make power right up to and through the stock redline, so the rev limit can be raised nominally with better valve springs.

94guy
09-17-10, 03:07 PM
are there any other cam grinds that are similiar to the ls9 cam with more gains?

DrumStix
09-17-10, 07:20 PM
Lingenfelter used to make one that cost 4X as much.

Karch
09-17-10, 08:52 PM
are there any other cam grinds that are similiar to the ls9 cam with more gains?

Did you read the entire string?

Also, don't limit your research to CTS-v, as you should also look into LS3's with 1900TVS blowers on them, like in Camaro's and other vehicles. Just stay within the LS3/LSA/L92 engine family, or at least with these heads, to get a reasonably close comparison.

DrumStix
09-17-10, 09:29 PM
I read "similar cam" so they will have similar gains. Since you chimed in, any recommendations? There are hundreds of other cams to choose from for the LSX.

94guy
09-18-10, 05:40 PM
i went ahead and installed the ls9 cam. i hope it makes me about 30rwhp. i just wanted something that drives like stock but has good gains in power. if i don't make the power with my over all combo i will put the lingenfelterGT9 cam in.

DrumStix
09-18-10, 11:56 PM
You'll be fine. Post your mods and I'll give you the expected RWHP. Also, is this the only thing your changing this round of mods?

PremierJosh
09-28-10, 11:22 AM
I'm ready to order a camshaft. Does anyone that went with a ls9 wish they would have went a little larger? I plan to also do ported heads in the future so I would like something with a little more lift but I want what to be able to tell there is a cam in the car at all.

GMX322V S/C
09-28-10, 01:13 PM
Not me, I'm perfectly happy with the LS9 cam. The power added met my expectations and being an OEM cam from a 50-state car, I'm not expecting to have any problems passing the Cali smog test down the road. If I wasn't worried about smog, I'd probably be running LPE's GT9 cam (no lope claimed and who knows if it would've passed smog anyway?). Beyond that, from what I understand, the GT11 cam has a nice, ever-so-slightly lopey idle that you can still run on an auto. At least one other forum member has posted over the last year or so that he is running this cam.

Razorecko
09-28-10, 01:44 PM
What kind of power increases are you guys getting with the ls9 cam ? in terms of hp AND tq and is it across the board or just on the high end ?

GMX322V S/C
09-28-10, 02:11 PM
Mine went in with a 9" pulley and ported snout and I went from 525 to 574 RWHP. Although the pulley alone is said to be good for around 30, I don't think this means the cam alone would be good for only 20. It might also be good for 30 on it's own, but since I have stock heads, exhaust manifolds, and all 4 cats, perhaps that is the limiting factor. From the dyno graphs, it looks like more power across the board (pulley), but the gap increases at the top end (cam)--so they raised the rev limit slightly to take advantage of it (better springs, but stock valves, pushrods, and rockers).

Razorecko
09-28-10, 03:47 PM
Hey GMX, what did your tq increase ?

GMX322V S/C
09-28-10, 07:21 PM
Razor, I don't have my charts handy at the moment, but I seem to recall that it tracked pretty linearly. When I was at 524 RWHP, I believe my RWTQ was numerically within 10 points. I'm at 565 RWTQ now--still within 10 points.

DrumStix
09-28-10, 09:40 PM
I went from 476 to 579 with just the LS9 cam and 9.5" pulley an the car was still fast as well. I'm right at 600 RWHP with this combo now. Headed to the dnyo as soon as MSJ calls me back.

PremierJosh
09-28-10, 09:55 PM
I'm liking the specs on the GT9 camshaft, its more into the lift range a good set of CNC heads can take advantage of. I'm just wonder about how the car will behave with the larger stick in there? Does anyone have any experiance with this camshaft? Can you hear it at idle, any shake to the car, any low rpm issues?

Razorecko
09-28-10, 10:20 PM
Can one of you guys with the ls9 cam throw up a dyno graph, i'm curious to see what the curve is

94guy
09-29-10, 06:43 AM
drumstix, what's the 9.5" pulley worth hp wise? also i have seen adm claim the ls9 cam is 18-20hp over a stock ls3 cam. i would hope more with the blower.

GMX322V S/C
10-06-10, 11:51 PM
Can one of you guys with the ls9 cam throw up a dyno graph, i'm curious to see what the curve isHey Razor, finally back home; here's what I got:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_7fp7bZcElbk/TDO_4KPaJSI/AAAAAAAAAxk/QmXtpPVHoZE/s800/Camtune.jpg

I don't know why the resultant HP doesn't appear in the green box, but 525.8 + 47.9 = 573.7. (LS9 cam, ported snout, 9" pulley over baseline)

Razorecko
10-07-10, 09:32 AM
^ thank, so you were bumped about 50+ over stock with a ls9 cam, ported snout & a 9". The 9" pulley is good for about 20-30 that would leave the snout and cam with about 20 left. The gain is smooth and very streetable. I think cam selection is a case by case basis. There are cams that will give alot of hp and pull tq or give slightly across the whole band. For someone that does inner city driving they might want a different cam than someone who drives 90% highway. Also this would play into if you are a manual transmission or automatic. If you have a large increase only at a certain rpm its much easier to get access to that power with a shifter and a clutch than two flippy paddles.

94guy
10-07-10, 01:48 PM
i have seen ADM do a graph on a stock 2010 camaro ls3 to only the ls9 cam alone NOTHING else 18-20rwhp. one would think it would be worth more with the blower considering it's made for a blower.

Dasteufelhund
07-01-14, 07:43 PM
What's the ballpark cost for this and a LS9 blower?

Karch
07-01-14, 07:51 PM
Do not put the LS9 blower in your V, please.

Most that have done so, or tried, haven't been happy.