: MAPerformance Trailing Arm Install Guide



MAPerformance
04-12-10, 10:05 PM
Torque specs for re-installation on the way. Maybe you can help out Darkman?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/one22ef/step1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/one22ef/Step2.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/one22ef/Step3.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/one22ef/Step4.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/one22ef/Step5.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/one22ef/SpacerInstall.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/one22ef/File.jpg


If you have any questions please let me know!

Please note that I still don't have a widened factory wheel to get the biggest tire you can install with our arms. The issue at hand is that this product/project is totally funded out of my personal wallet as far as wheels/tires go. After purchasing a set of coilovers I was not ready for because of a manufacturer issue (Story, another day) funding is quite low.

I am also working on a lot of other products that are getting funded by my personal wallet, so please be patient. The big tire debacle will be solved soon once I find a company to widen my factory wheels in a decent amount of time.

Goal is to fit 315's without a spacer on a 10.5" factory widened wheel, which with all the measuring I have done shouldn't be a problem. Again, I will get the answer soon, so please don't clutter this install thread with questions concerning that subject. Please use the other thread to do so!

-Adam

Gus_Mahn
04-12-10, 10:55 PM
I was taught that suspension bushings should be tightened with the suspension loaded to prevent binding or pre-loading the bushings.

I'd love to have 315's, but don't want to spend the money right now. Maybe next summer. What aspect ratio keeps the stock tire height with 315's?

soflarick
04-12-10, 10:57 PM
Trailing arm to frame is 66 lb ft.
Front cradle bolts 195 lb ft.
Trailing arm to knuckle mount 129 lb ft.

Looks like the rear trailing arm bushing sleeve rotates in the bushing, so tightening it with a loaded suspension shouldn't be necessary. If the sleeve is vulcanized to the bushing, then yes you should.

tommy compton
04-12-10, 10:57 PM
Nice, I just got my clutch and trailing arms today, very impressed by the quality of both. Definitely worth the wait.

MAPerformance
04-12-10, 11:17 PM
Thanks Tommy.

BTW, the front cradle bushing does not need to be preloaded when installing either does the included hub bushing. Soflarick is correct when the sleeve rotates in the bushing, they are not mended together.

soflarick
04-12-10, 11:27 PM
What does it take to remove the factory bushing at the knuckle?

RADARB8
04-12-10, 11:38 PM
Trailing arm to frame is 66 lb ft.
Front cradle bolts 195 lb ft.
Trailing arm to knuckle mount 129 lb ft.

Looks like the rear trailing arm bushing sleeve rotates in the bushing, so tightening it with a loaded suspension shouldn't be necessary. If the sleeve is vulcanized to the bushing, then yes you should.

so the front trl. arm that has the joint and spacer on top with the 6" bolt is 66lb ft. and the 2 bolts i took off to lower the cradle are 195 lb ft ?:hmm: just want to be sure b/4 putting her back. thanks

soflarick
04-12-10, 11:47 PM
The GM specs I found said 66 lb ft for the front trailing arm, the bolt and nut that go with the spacer. Tighten the nut, not the bolt, to get the proper torque on the fastener.

MAPerformance
04-12-10, 11:55 PM
What does it take to remove the factory bushing at the knuckle?

I used a screwdriver and penetrating lubricant. Then put a screwdriver through the edge of the bushing and hammered it through to the other side and then started twisting.

Another method is to burn the bushing out, or press the bushing out with a c-clamp and a small piece of tubing just bigger than the center sleeve.

I found the screwdriver method to be the easiest, took me about 2-3 minutes to get each one out.

RADARB8
04-13-10, 12:07 AM
The GM specs I found said 66 lb ft for the front trailing arm, the bolt and nut that go with the spacer. Tighten the nut, not the bolt, to get the proper torque on the fastener.

thanks............and about the factory bushing, man that was a bear to get out....There has to be a better way, but i used a small drill bit being careful not to gouge the alum. barrel and made several holes[ in the ruber] and sprayed about a pint of WD-40 lol.....then nocked it out with a large punch and short arm heavy hammer. It worked.....I still have the drivers side to do, maybe someone has better way to make this easier.:alchi:

MAPerformance
04-13-10, 12:12 AM
The way I described above was pretty easy, screwdriver in one side. Pry it a little and spray penetrating fluid inside the hole that appears when you pry it. Spin it in a half moon direction, then repeat for the other side. Get it all lubed up, then put a screwdriver in the sleeve in the middle and pry it all the way to one side and use another screwdriver to coax it out the other side.

RADARB8
04-13-10, 12:14 AM
The way I described above was pretty easy, screwdriver in one side. Pry it a little and spray penetrating fluid inside the hole that appears when you pry it. Spin it in a half moon direction, then repeat for the other side. Get it all lubed up, then put a screwdriver in the sleeve in the middle and pry it all the way to one side and use another screwdriver to coax it out the other side.

sounds good!

lollygagger8
04-13-10, 10:07 AM
Why do you have to lower the cradle and take the rotor off? Is it because they are so thick or something?

When I've taken my stock and bmr trailing arms on and off I just used a gear wrench (on bolthead side for lower end) and got em on/off just fine w/o removing any of that shit.

MAPerformance
04-13-10, 10:56 AM
I never said lowering the cradle was to remove the rotor? Where did I say that at? It is to remove the front trailing arm bolt because the bolt is too long to come out the top if the cradle is not lowered in the front.

I am also curious how you got the rear-most trailing arm bolt out without hitting the rotor? They are installed that way above in the picture from the factory. Which is dumb in my opinion.

Matt05V
04-14-10, 09:49 PM
I didn't have to remove the rotor or anything when I did my BMR's either:hmm:

MAPerformance
04-14-10, 10:30 PM
I'm not sure how you guys got the most forward bolt out then? Its over 6 inches long and there is only 3 inches of space above the sub frame in the front. Unless your guy's car has been working on previously the front bolt goes in from the top and the nut goes on the bottom. If it was going up from the bottom the the nut on top, I'm willing to bet money you have a 10mm circle indent on the body of your car above that bolt.

If your front bolt for the trailing arm is going in from the top and the nut is on the bottom like the picture below, you will need to undo the cradle bolts.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/one22ef/Step5.jpg

And if your rear-most trailing arm bolt that goes through the hub is going in from the outside like the picture below, you will need to remove the rotor as the bolt is too long to pull out with the rotor in the way.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/one22ef/Step3.jpg

It's factory flaw, not our product design. That would be impossible as the mounting points are the same.

I'm willing to bet with how much the dealer works on these cars in the ass-end that some peoples bolt configurations are different than others.

soflarick
04-14-10, 10:36 PM
Perhaps the front bolt went from the top down so the nut can be torqued, not the bolt, as well as lowering the chance the bolt would come out if the nut fails. Maybe similar reason for the knuckle side bolt, i.e. if the nut falls off, the bolt backs out to the point it touches the rotor and then you hear it.

jerrycecco
04-25-10, 01:19 PM
ok, I assume a few V owners have these trailing arms installed.
what's the handling like? (cornering improvements?)
any noise?

jerrycecco@tx.rr.com

CTS-Voodoo
04-25-10, 03:10 PM
ok, I assume a few V owners have these trailing arms installed.
what's the handling like? (cornering improvements?)
any noise?

jerrycecco@tx.rr.com

Youll find with the trailing arms the rear end can hold larger tires, which will improve your traction. Otherwise they really dont offer handing improvements. Increase the diameter of the rear toe rods while you're in there and you'll see a DRAMATIC increase in rear end acceleration stability, especially in the turns! The stock rear rod is about 1/2inch thick and isnt really built to handle 400 horses. I beefed mine up to 1.5 .120wall DOM and I routinely see .95-.97 before the rear tires even start to chirp. Considering thats max lateral grip for our vehicles stock... :thumbsup:

jerrycecco
04-25-10, 03:29 PM
Youll find with the trailing arms the rear end can hold larger tires, which will improve your traction. Otherwise they really dont offer handing improvements. Increase the diameter of the rear toe rods while you're in there and you'll see a DRAMATIC increase in rear end acceleration stability, especially in the turns! The stock rear rod is about 1/2inch thick and isnt really built to handle 400 horses. I beefed mine up to 1.5 .120wall DOM and I routinely see .95-.97 before the rear tires even start to chirp. Considering thats max lateral grip for our vehicles stock... :thumbsup:

CTS-Voodoo,
thanks for posting. I'm NOT planning to increase tire width in the rear.
so changing the rear tie rods will make a difference in handling on stock 245 size tires? interesting.... I'm looking to improved hanlding at the track using low $ budget....this MAY BE what I'm looking for..

where did you get yours OR did you build yours?

jerrycecco@tx.rr.com

soflarick
04-25-10, 03:58 PM
I've been thinking of building some toe rods using nylon race rod ends. The nylon race would cut down on NVH. I need to get my hands on an OEM toe rod to take measurements. Little busy with family issues at this time, though.

MAPerformance
04-26-10, 07:49 PM
Youll find with the trailing arms the rear end can hold larger tires, which will improve your traction. Otherwise they really dont offer handing improvements. Increase the diameter of the rear toe rods while you're in there and you'll see a DRAMATIC increase in rear end acceleration stability, especially in the turns! The stock rear rod is about 1/2inch thick and isnt really built to handle 400 horses. I beefed mine up to 1.5 .120wall DOM and I routinely see .95-.97 before the rear tires even start to chirp. Considering thats max lateral grip for our vehicles stock... :thumbsup:


I posted in another thread the benefits of the trailing arms, I'll post it in here again as well. The initial design was to make a better tailing arm in general, not to allow larger tires.

Yes, the original design of the trailing arms we did were for handling improvements, not for a wider tire. About 10-15 people emailed/pm'd me waiting a offset arm so they can put wider wheels tires, so I provided while still achieving the original goal.

ichpen
04-26-10, 09:39 PM
Damn it. Knew I forgot something. So is BMR still the only place that does beefier toe rods? If so I need some ASAP.

ichpen
04-28-10, 02:36 PM
Damn it. Knew I forgot something. So is BMR still the only place that does beefier toe rods? If so I need some ASAP.

Adam, did these spacers that you speak off come in the bag of red poly bushings? Just trying to remember if I got these...

MAPerformance
04-28-10, 05:29 PM
Yea, they are in the bag with the bushings.

yooper
04-29-10, 10:14 PM
I'm in.

MAPerformance
04-30-10, 01:06 PM
How's the clutch? ;)

yooper
04-30-10, 11:51 PM
How's the clutch? ;)

Sweeeeeeeeet Thanks Adam, it is just as you described.
What is the break in procedure?:thumbsup:

ichpen
05-01-10, 03:13 PM
so the front trl. arm that has the joint and spacer on top with the 6" bolt is 66lb ft. and the 2 bolts i took off to lower the cradle are 195 lb ft ?:hmm: just want to be sure b/4 putting her back. thanks

Just to confirm its 128lb/ft for the trailing arm bolt that holds the new red bushing? Kind of bulging with those specs...

tommy compton
05-01-10, 08:39 PM
Ya mine too, the poly got squished when I torqued it down to 128ft. They also squawk when launching hard, I may put the rubber bushings back in instead of the poly, or go solid. The noise is pretty embarrasing.

tommy compton
05-01-10, 11:13 PM
Ya mine too, the poly got squished when I torqued it down to 128ft. They also squawk when launching hard, I may put the rubber bushings back in instead of the poly, or go solid. The noise is pretty embarrasing.

Actually the more I drive the more I think it's not the trailing arms squawking, but rather my new clutch, I hope this goes away after a break in period.

ichpen
05-02-10, 02:16 PM
Actually the more I drive the more I think it's not the trailing arms squawking, but rather my new clutch, I hope this goes away after a break in period.

Monster clutch?

My new clutch squeeks also.

AAIIIC
05-02-10, 02:45 PM
Just to confirm its 128lb/ft for the trailing arm bolt that holds the new red bushing? Kind of bulging with those specs...

Ya mine too, the poly got squished when I torqued it down to 128ft. They also squawk when launching hard, I may put the rubber bushings back in instead of the poly, or go solid. The noise is pretty embarrasing.
I have found that the "flange" area on many poly bushings is too thick, resulting in poor fitment. This is a sweet MSPaint drawing I made years ago:
http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Pictures/bushing%20bind.jpg

The poly bushing material really shouldn't extend past the metal sleeve in the middle of the bushing. If it does extend out too far, when you torque the fastener down, that bushing material is squueeeeeezed in there, and will cause bind when that joint wants to rotate. In some cases I've actually shaved bushings back with a sander to reduce that bind. (I probably could've exaggerated the difference more in my wicked cool drawing, but I'm too lazy to change it right now.)

tommy compton
05-02-10, 03:52 PM
Monster clutch?

My new clutch squeeks also.

Fidanza 7.6 twin. It seems too be getting less frequent the more I drive.

yooper
05-02-10, 10:59 PM
Fidanza 7.6 twin. It seems too be getting less frequent the more I drive.

how many miles do you have on the new clutch?

MAPerformance
05-03-10, 03:53 PM
If your getting a slight "sqwaking" noise from the clutch your giving it too much gas, this is not your normal "aftermarket clutch". You don't need to give it a bunch of gas to take off, if your daily driving it let the clutch out almost all the way before you even apply any gas ;)

The sleeves are cut to fit in the bushing with about .0625" of bushing flange overhang so you squish the bushing down just a little bit to prevent any gap between the trailing arm and the bushing. I have them install on my car with no noise at all.

tommy compton
05-03-10, 05:14 PM
I got about 120 miles in. Just taking me a bit to get used to the new clutch, trying to break it in properly. It's easy to drive, but still have a bit of break-in chatter, I can drive it without getting noise very often, and it's less noise than when it had less miles on it.
Ya ther is no noise from my trailing arms, I thought that was where my noise was coming from, but it's definitely the clutch.

liqidvenom
05-03-10, 05:20 PM
Ohh by the way i installed the spec 3+, flywheel and trailing arms i bought from you. No complaints with any of the parts. Thanks.

MAPerformance
05-03-10, 07:28 PM
No problem!

soflarick
05-14-10, 09:34 PM
Bumping for those needing the information.

soflarick
05-15-10, 05:51 PM
PROBLEM. The sleeves are FAR TOO SHORT for the bushings when installed in the knuckle. The bushing material should in NO way be as squished as what I am seeing, and I'm not even at 129 lb/ft on the torque wrench. At 70 lb/ft, the bushings are so deformed and the trailing arm mounting points are slightly bent in. No way should this be this way. You cut the metal sleeves much too short. The bushings are going to fail, and the trailing arms are going to fail if they crush any further. I can't even get 129 lb/ft on the wrench as the bushing material gets even more deformed, and the trailing arm mounting points crush even further. You need to remeasure and send me new sleeves and bushings. The sleeves looked okay before the bushings were installed, but the bushings must have a small gap between them once they are installed, thus making the sleeves too short. Now I have to reinstall the OEM trailing arms and waste the rest of the day, wait for new sleeves and bushings, or send this back for a refund. Either way I have to tear things apart a second time. This is on a 2007 V.

MAPerformance
05-15-10, 06:06 PM
New sleeves and bushings on the way, email me your name so I can look it up in the system!

adam@maperformance.com

The first batch was cut on our bandsaw and some might of been a couple mm's off. I will get you a new set 2-day aired to ya.

verywhitedevil
05-15-10, 09:21 PM
pictures?? mine are flush prior to install, so if there is a gap, then there will most definitely be an issue. I would like to see pictures of this issue before I tackle this job, cause we would be saying the sleeve does not extend to the end of the bushing, right?

soflarick
05-15-10, 09:58 PM
I can take a photo tomorrow. I appreciate the prompt response to the issue. I think the issue is from the bushings being a bit separated once installed, making the sleeve not long enough. I left the torque setting to 70 lb/ft just to get things back together and not stress the parts. I will have to drive the car before the replacement parts arrive, so I had to do something.

BTW, I discovered a cheap and very effective way to remove the OEM bushing at the knuckle. A 4" length of 1.5" PVC tubing and a 4" c-clamp. I had a PVC fitting that was threaded on one side and an open 1.5" on the other. I put a bit of heat to the knuckle just to loosen the bushing, then put the tube on the outside of the knuckle, the crank portion of the c-clamp on the inside, and turned. Sprayed a little little WD40 as I was cranking, and the bushing popped right out into the PVC tube. Did the same on both sides.

The torque setting for the shock mount is 111 lb/ft as well. The torque setting for the screw holding on the brake rotor is 124 lb/in, very little torque. I used some Fluid Film on spots I noticed getting a bit rusty. I previously used some in the front, and it's doing an amazing job of protecting the undercarriage. I must have sprayed the front undercarriage at least a couple months ago, and the film is still there.

The passenger side zerk fitting on the trailing arm is pointed straight up after tightening it. I was afraid to tighten it further or risk stripping it. I guess I could loosen it a bit just to grease the bearing, then tighten it again.

Adam, email was just sent.

verywhitedevil
05-16-10, 05:13 AM
i thought about just installing some straight zerks, without the bend

soflarick
05-16-10, 11:42 AM
I have some straight zerk fittings so I'll test it out when I go back in to replace the parts. I'm using lithium based Amsoil marine grease to lubricate the bearing and bushing. It has excellent anti-wash out properties.

Here's a photo of what I'm talking about. If your bushings looks like it, then you need longer sleeves. I only torqued the nuts to 66 lb/ft and left it at that so as not to stress the trailing arm. I can at least drive the car until the other parts arrive.

I am guessing that I won't have to unbolt all the fasteners from a cold install since the bearing up front may allow enough articulation to get the arm out of the way for the bushings and sleeves to be replaced. At least I can clean off the rear calipers. I may replace the rear rotors anyway, as I noticed a pronounced ridge across their edges.

jerrycecco
06-11-10, 08:50 PM
ok my Trailing Arms were installed today @ QMS in Lewisville, TX
they went in reptty smoothly, the removal of the factory rubber bushing seemed like the toughest of the install.
....they also, changed my oil, lubed up sway bars, installed speed bleeders and bleed my brakes for tomorrow track day @ Eagles Canyon
.........all done in 2.5hrs

So far so good, on the SUPER STRAIGHT drive home no squeezes -cool.....we need some twisty roads in North Dallas area....
I took a few Texas loops rear end felt a little more planted...

The big test is tomorrow @ Eagles Canyon!!!
yahaaa....

--Jerry

crankedupforit
06-11-10, 08:55 PM
ok my Trailing Arms were installed today @ QMS in Lewisville, TX
they went in reptty smoothly, the removal of the factory rubber bushing seemed like the toughest of the install.
....they also, changed my oil, lubed up sway bars, installed speed bleeders and bleed my brakes for tomorrow track day @ Eagles Canyon
.........all done in 2.5hrs

So far so good, on the SUPER STRAIGHT drive home no squeezes -cool.....we need some twisty roads in North Dallas area....
I took a few Texas loops rear end felt a little more planted...

The big test is tomorrow @ Eagles Canyon!!!
yahaaa....

--Jerry

Tear em up Jerry!!

jerrycecco
06-13-10, 03:25 AM
I'm back from Eagles Canyon, it was a blast
It got a little warm in the afternoon @ 95 degrees...

The V felt much more planted in the rear, like "mo junk in the trunk" but without the weight....
still no noise, no squeezing so I think we definitley got enough grease on the bushings.

I think now I like to have more braking....

--Jerry

ichpen
06-13-10, 12:12 PM
I have some straight zerk fittings so I'll test it out when I go back in to replace the parts. I'm using lithium based Amsoil marine grease to lubricate the bearing and bushing. It has excellent anti-wash out properties.

Here's a photo of what I'm talking about. If your bushings looks like it, then you need longer sleeves. I only torqued the nuts to 66 lb/ft and left it at that so as not to stress the trailing arm. I can at least drive the car until the other parts arrive.

I am guessing that I won't have to unbolt all the fasteners from a cold install since the bearing up front may allow enough articulation to get the arm out of the way for the bushings and sleeves to be replaced. At least I can clean off the rear calipers. I may replace the rear rotors anyway, as I noticed a pronounced ridge across their edges.

My bushings look like that. We managed about 100lbs of torque on them and they looked deformed.

Actually just created a new thread that they're squeeking/creaking like crazy.

Adam, help?

MAPerformance
06-13-10, 02:48 PM
I can get some new sleeves on the way to you. What happened is they were cut on our bandsaw to length and one of the employees here didn't take into consideration was how much material was taken off when he flat sanded them. Only a few went out like this and I think I have them all fixed, icphen I'll have a set out to you this week.

jerrycecco
06-13-10, 08:42 PM
I'm back from Eagles Canyon, it was a blast
It got a little warm in the afternoon @ 95 degrees...

The V felt much more planted in the rear, like "mo junk in the trunk" but without the weight....
still no noise, no squeezing so I think we definitley got enough grease on the bushings.

I think now I like to have more braking....

--Jerry

I played around today with the video I shot from ECR:
....I cant reduce the wind noise

YouTube- ECR last session of June 12.wmv

--Jerry

ichpen
06-13-10, 10:59 PM
I can get some new sleeves on the way to you. What happened is they were cut on our bandsaw to length and one of the employees here didn't take into consideration was how much material was taken off when he flat sanded them. Only a few went out like this and I think I have them all fixed, icphen I'll have a set out to you this week.

Appreciate it Adam. Let me know if you need my address again.

Looks like those bushing will be coming out again :sigh

tommy compton
06-14-10, 01:25 AM
My bushings look like that. We managed about 100lbs of torque on them and they looked deformed.

Actually just created a new thread that they're squeeking/creaking like crazy.

Adam, help?

mine are deformed too, and one side is squeeking like mad over big bumps.
I too would like a fix.

MAPerformance
06-14-10, 10:42 PM
Done and done.

ichpen
06-14-10, 11:32 PM
Done and done.

Very cool Adam. Thanks. Taking the bolts out of those bushings won't be so cool though. Any tips? Can't even get a hammer on them unless I drop the hub.

Also, what grease would you recommend? I'm using white lithium but curious if there's anything that lasts longer.

AAIIIC
06-14-10, 11:58 PM
Adam, what length should the sleeves be? I'd like to measure mine before I try to install them and find out the hard way they're too short. I know you said you've taken care of all the wrong ones that shipped out, but I'd like to double-check anyway.

MAPerformance
06-15-10, 08:08 PM
1.9" - 1.975"

RADARB8
06-15-10, 10:03 PM
i have mine tourqed to 65lbs. I was afraid to crush them.. Should i tighten them up and see what happens ?? i know mine was one of the first made

liqidvenom
06-15-10, 10:12 PM
i have a squeak as well, i will check mine this weekend to see.

jerrycecco
06-16-10, 11:01 AM
more feedback from Trailing Arms @ ECR open trackj day:

BEFORE TrArms installed, sometimes my TPMS warning light came on for my front tires (mostly on the warner track days)
And Sat June 12th was warm, high of 95 degrees in the afternoon.

BUT on Sat with TrAms installed my TPMS warning light did come on for my REAR tires first...then a couple times my FRONT tires
so after some thinking, read and clarification of this, I take this as NOW the REAR tires are working harder than before --- from improved traction

the tires of a 50PSI high on listed the tires, the highesr reading I saw was 42psi....
.....and I started a new thread "how to raise the limit so I dont get the warning light on while on the track...

--Jerry

AAIIIC
06-16-10, 02:17 PM
Why on earth would you want your tires to go to 50psi? :confused:

AAIIIC
06-16-10, 03:45 PM
1.9" - 1.975"
Thanks, Adam. I'll whip out the ol' vernier calipers tonight and check mine.

MAPerformance
06-17-10, 11:21 AM
No problem... How is the clutch?

AAIIIC
06-17-10, 06:59 PM
Clutch is working out just great.

Sleeves are no good. 4.79mm and 4.65mm on the vernier caliper, so 1.88" and 1.83", and the ends don't appear to be very flat/even. I'm also somewhat surprised at how thin the tubing is combined to other bushings I've dealt with.

liqidvenom
06-18-10, 12:02 AM
my sleeves are also small, i took a look at it while i was pulling my trans.

RADARB8
06-18-10, 01:54 AM
I need new bushings also.. i put down about 65' lbs of tq. and was afraid to go any further so as not to crush them....Hey MAP, i test drove it around the block and now i am getting a clunk noise ie. when i just tap the accellator
it clunks.. it never did that b/4.. could it be because i haven't torqued them to the proper specs yet?

MAPerformance
06-18-10, 11:07 AM
I'll get a batch of sleeves together and get them shipped out to everyone.

RADARB8 - It could be anything to be honest, I doubt it is from them not being TQ all the way. 65ft/lbs is nothing to shake a stick at, its still doing its job. Look at other things you might have messed with recently.

verywhitedevil
06-18-10, 11:07 PM
I installed my arms. did not use any lube on the urethane bushings and DID NOT torque the bolts. No issues. No noises. Nothing. Everything working great. I will try to get things torqued this weekend, but not having any problems, so might just check things out.

I did have to grind quite a bit on one side of the control arm. One side very little.

soflarick
06-20-10, 02:24 PM
If the trailing arms are not seated against the sleeves, the bolt is going to rotate inside the sleeve, wearing it down, esp if there isn't any lubrication present.

jerrycecco
06-20-10, 03:16 PM
I got under my V this AM and took a quick picture.
how's this one look like to others?

Adam, your thoughts?

jerrycecco@tx.rr.com

soflarick
06-20-10, 05:19 PM
If it's torqued to spec, it looks pretty good.

AAIIIC
06-21-10, 10:14 AM
I installed my arms. did not use any lube on the urethane bushings ...
That's a horrible idea. You may not be hearing anything (which I find somewhat amazing), but in time you will. More importantly, a non-lubricated poly bushing is going to wear out more quickly, and that non-lubricated bushing is going to introduce bind into the suspension.

soflarick
06-21-10, 10:26 AM
Any lube is better than nothing. Urethane lube or marine grease will prevent wash out.

MAPerformance
06-21-10, 11:37 AM
Marine grease is what I recommend for sure. Jerry, bushings look great!

Everyone that needs a new set of sleeves please email me!

adam@maperformance.com

MAPerformance
06-23-10, 03:41 PM
All new sleeves shipped today!

Liqidvenom
AAIICC
RADAR
ICHPEN
Tommy Compton

ichpen
06-23-10, 03:49 PM
I installed my arms. did not use any lube on the urethane bushings and DID NOT torque the bolts. No issues. No noises. Nothing. Everything working great. I will try to get things torqued this weekend, but not having any problems, so might just check things out.

I did have to grind quite a bit on one side of the control arm. One side very little.

Give it 2 weeks. Noise will come. :tisk:

Mine we're fine for 2 weeks.

BTW, how do you get that bolt out without dropping the whole rear cradle. :mad2: Tried to just lube them because I haven't received the new sleeves yet. Bolt was seized up badly on one side, bushing doesn't look like it's in good shape at all.

gerrr2025
06-23-10, 03:57 PM
ive had my TA in for a month or so and no noise! love them!!

tommy compton
06-23-10, 03:59 PM
All new sleeves shipped today!

Liqidvenom
AAIICC
RADAR
ICHPEN
Tommy Compton

Thanks adam.

MAPerformance
06-23-10, 05:04 PM
Np!!

AAIIIC
07-18-10, 12:46 AM
I installed my trailing arms today, retaining the stock bushings for now. A couple of notes.

(1) My trailing arm-to-knuckle bolts were the opposite of the way Adam's customer's were - the head was towards the inside (away from the rotor).
http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Pictures/CTS-V%20pics/Suspension%20and%20Chassis/Trailing%20arms/rear%20bolt1.jpg

I thought that might save me a couple of steps, since I wouldn't need to remove the rotors, but in the end it didn't really end up being very helpful. The damn lower control arm gets in the way when you try to remove the bolt! :mad:
http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Pictures/CTS-V%20pics/Suspension%20and%20Chassis/Trailing%20arms/rear%20bolt2%20-%20brilliant%20design.jpg

Brilliant design! :rolleyes: Most likely in anticipation of that fact, the Service Manual has you unbolt the lower control arm from the knuckle before unbolting the trailing arm, something you wouldn't need to do if the bolt was facing the other direction.

(2) I recommend installing the front trailing arm bolts and torquing them to spec, then bolting the cradle into position before you do your clearancing on the knuckles. I started on the driver side knuckle when I still had the cradle drooping down, and that meant I was clearancing a little lower than I needed to. Not a huge deal, it just cost me a bit of time. Since you've got the spherical bearing at the front of the trailing arm, as you clearance the knuckle you can rotate the trailing arm out of the way, grind/dremel a bit, then swing the trailing arm back into position to see where you need to clearance more.

PS - Dear GM, Stop making every suspension bolt 3/4" or more longer than it needs to be. Think of all the money you could save on steel if you use fasteners that were the right damn size!!!

ichpen
07-19-10, 10:19 PM
Going to swap my sleeves this week. What's the consensus, still 129ft/lb torque on those bushings? Or are we using german torque settings?

AAIIIC
07-20-10, 09:52 AM
MAP is supposed to be working on a completely new setup (bushing and sleeve), so I wouldn't bother swapping in the revised sleeves at this point. Even if they're the right length, they're still made of tubing stock that is too thin to handle the compression from a 14mm fastener torqued to 129ft-lb. Here's a picture of what happens if you torque one of the current sleeves to 129ft-lb:
http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Pictures/CTS-V%20pics/Suspension%20and%20Chassis/Trailing%20arms/bushing%20sleeves2%20-%20bent.jpg

ichpen
07-20-10, 03:48 PM
Adam????

Noise is driving me insane... I got the last batch of longer sleeves (no extra bushings). Now we're saying there's a bushing/sleeve combo to come?

MAPerformance
07-20-10, 05:46 PM
Correcto Mundo! We are going to be changing the sleeve to a 22mm outside diameter and a 14mm inner diameter for more meat between the bolt and the bushing.

These bushings were basically a free add-on which I mentioned to AAIICC, SOFLARICK, and a few other members. We weren't originally going to include these. You would be surprised at how many people didn't actually install these bushings. So if you haven't yet, DON'T do so until I get the new bushing out.

Once the new bushings are sent out, I'm not sure if we are going to be even producing product anymore for the CTS-V. We are swamped with the other vehicles we build and work on, so new products for the CTS-V will be aways out.

ichpen
07-20-10, 05:53 PM
OK, thanks man. Sorry to hear that you might be pulling out. You've been great even with the trailing arm bushing fiasco. :)

So I'll hold off installing the second batch of sleeves you sent out. When do you think you'll have new sleeves/bushings out to the owners? And is it a set of new sleeves AND bushings or just bigger sleeves again?

Nik

MAPerformance
07-20-10, 05:58 PM
Sleeves and bushings, contacting daystar to make them for us now!

soflarick
07-20-10, 07:50 PM
You can install the trailing arms without the MAP bushings, then install the bushings once MAP sends out the updated version with the larger inner sleeve.

MAPerformance
07-20-10, 07:59 PM
Correct, sorry I left that out!

RADARB8
07-21-10, 05:29 AM
Correct, sorry I left that out!

I received the 2nd sleeve over amonth ago:yup:Also, a thicker sleeve came about 7 days ago..so i probably would just need new bushings to replace my crushed ones is that correct? or is there another updated sleeve? and when will the bushings be shipped. thanks GREG O.

verywhitedevil
07-21-10, 10:32 AM
Adam, are you shipping the new sleeves to all previous purchasors of the Trailing Arms?? make sure I am on the list, please.

BTW, ICHPEN, still no noises. must be lucky.

MAPerformance
07-21-10, 08:08 PM
I will be sending out sleeves/bushings here in a few weeks to everyone. These are going to be thicker sleeves and better bushings, a part that we weren't even going to include is now costing us a ass-load of money lol. Thats what we get for listening to a "professional bushing company."

tommy compton
07-21-10, 09:51 PM
I will be sending out sleeves/bushings here in a few weeks to everyone. These are going to be thicker sleeves and better bushings, a part that we weren't even going to include is now costing us a ass-load of money lol. Thats what we get for listening to a "professional bushing company."
Got me on your list? lol. Way to back your product, shipping all these sleeves out must be putting you back a bit.
Any word on toe rods lol.

MAPerformance
07-22-10, 11:05 AM
We are not going to be making anymore products. We are going to sell the diff braces and the trailing arms, once those are gone. That will be it, the rest of the products have been scrapped.

Everyone is on the list ;)

liqidvenom
07-22-10, 12:52 PM
giving up on the V crowd? email me about the clutch if you get a chance.

MAPerformance
07-23-10, 06:31 PM
Waiting to hear from Fidanza when I'm going to have my stocking order. I went through this one like it was shower water. 30 clutch kits, gone in 30 days!

Den_93
07-23-10, 06:41 PM
I like my clutch kit and trailing arms. Thanks, Adam!!!........

liqidvenom
07-23-10, 06:42 PM
do you have an idea when they will get back to you if they are in stock?

MAPerformance
07-23-10, 06:48 PM
Monday probably!

Dennis - Thanks buddy!

ichpen
07-27-10, 12:06 PM
I will be sending out sleeves/bushings here in a few weeks to everyone. These are going to be thicker sleeves and better bushings, a part that we weren't even going to include is now costing us a ass-load of money lol. Thats what we get for listening to a "professional bushing company."

Thanks Adam. Don't forget to include me on that list of yours for the bushings. I'll have to put up with more creaking for a wee bit longer. When do you reckon you'll have them shipped?

BTW, does anyone have the specs on the big bolt/nut for the lower trailing arm? I'll buy some replacements as I suspect they've seized up a bit.

MAPerformance
07-27-10, 02:06 PM
Probably won't be a for a few weeks. I have to get the company to custom make the bushings.

AAIIIC
07-27-10, 09:17 PM
BTW, does anyone have the specs on the big bolt/nut for the lower trailing arm? I'll buy some replacements as I suspect they've seized up a bit.
That's a kind of part that I just get the OEM ones. It's not a typical bolt design, so you're not going to find one just like it at the hardware store.

RADARB8
08-06-10, 05:18 PM
with a thicker sleeve, will our stock bolts work with the new s&b setup??? or will the bushing be opened up more to accomadate the thicker sleeve and keep the stock bolt? seems to me a tad less meat will be on the bushing....
just curious....At least your standing behind your product and getting it right...

soflarick
08-06-10, 06:58 PM
The sleeve will be larger in diameter, yet maintain the same inner diameter to keep the OEM space between it and the bolt. A larger diameter sleeve will probably provide greater longevity since there is more bearing surface than with a narrower sleeve.

AAIIIC
08-06-10, 09:55 PM
I will be sending out sleeves/bushings here in a few weeks to everyone. These are going to be thicker sleeves and better bushings, a part that we weren't even going to include is now costing us a ass-load of money lol.
Adam, I'll be perfectly happy to reimburse you for the cost of the bushings and sleeves. When the time comes just let me know what I owe you guys.

verywhitedevil
08-06-10, 11:47 PM
I like my trailing arms and have no complaints. Adam, sorry to see you bail. Really wanted those "j" hook front disks. Anyway those are available??

Crowned Customs
08-09-10, 03:38 PM
I'm going to install my arms tonight, I guess will just use stock stuff for now until I can get the revised bushings. I guess add me to this special list. Thanks Adam

By the way you PM box is full.

MAPerformance
08-09-10, 04:10 PM
Just emptied the box. Everyone is on the list, and nobody needs to pay me for the bushings. The latest trailing arm release will be shipped with no bushings. I am getting custom bushings made for the trailings arms we have already sold and that is it. So if you already have a set of trailing arms in your hand. Expect new sleeves and bushings in the up and coming month or so. Didn't realize custom bushings would take forever.

MAPerformance
08-09-10, 04:11 PM
I am also not giving up or bailing out on the V Community. I still will be posting, but I'm not sure how much I'll be posting on this forum. As of right now, I'm using this forum as a gateway to previous customers so I can help out with any issues on the rear bushings. I was banned on here with no reason, so bad taste :(