: Question For Jesse (Regulator Valve & Actuator)



cbloveday
04-03-10, 11:15 AM
Jes,

I wanted you to tke a look at the pictures below to confirm that this is the proper setup of my Regukator and Actuator given the mods you installed and I had previously, mainly the 2.55 SC pulley and the 8.5 lower. Mods are listed in sig. I appreciate your comments and instruction in advance. IF IT IS NOT PROPER, PLEASE ADVISE WHAT I SHOULD DO.


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/pcv.gif


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/DSC_0278.jpg


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/DSC_0277.jpg


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/DSC_0276.jpg

cbloveday
04-03-10, 12:02 PM
I did look at this thread and it merely confused me further.

Would someone be kind enough to show me pic of the stock setup?

Also, should any open ports be capped with foam?

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/174460-p-valve-question-4.html

lavaman
04-03-10, 04:25 PM
Curtis,

I'll be in south Naperville by 3:00 P.M. and have a little time. I can stop by if it will help??

GMX322V S/C
04-03-10, 04:47 PM
On my car, the port marked with "X" on the "Boost Control Solenoid" is connected to the capped off port in your 3rd photo. This would be your "Boost Vacuum Source" as shown in this diagram:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachments/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/57305d1270262513-p-valve-capping-lsa-boost-control.jpg

"O" ("Boost Signal") goes on to the "bottom" side of the "Bypass Valve Actuator" (up and to the right in your 1st photo). The unmarked port is capped off with foam as yours is.

Disconnecting the Boost Vacuum Source effectively prevents the ECU from limiting the boost to 12 psi or cutting it back during the other situations described here:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/196495-p-valve-capping.html#post2201452

cbloveday
04-03-10, 04:58 PM
Curtis,

I'll be in south Naperville by 3:00 P.M. and have a little time. I can stop by if it will help??

I appreciate the offer but I won't have time today. I'm with the family.

cbloveday
04-03-10, 05:10 PM
On my car, the port marked with "X" on the "Boost Control Solenoid" is connected to the capped off port in your 3rd photo. This would be your "Boost Vacuum Source" as shown in this diagram:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachments/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/57305d1270262513-p-valve-capping-lsa-boost-control.jpg

"O" ("Boost Signal") goes on to the "bottom" side of the "Bypass Valve Actuator" (up and to the right in your 1st photo). The unmarked port is capped off with foam as yours is.

Disconnecting the Boost Vacuum Source effectively prevents the ECU from limiting the boost to 12 psi or cutting it back during the other situations described here:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/196495-p-valve-capping.html#post2201452

I see. I sent a picture to Jess of the unmarked port, which is capped and secured, because at one point there was NO cap. Jess had responded with he had capped it and it must have come off.

So I guess the only question I have left is: should I cap, or foam cover, the naked port on the regulator valve?

Thank all of you for clarification! :worship:

GMX322V S/C
04-03-10, 05:33 PM
If you're talking about the "X" port, you probably don't want to cap it, since it might impact the Bypass Valve Actuator action. Letting it vent free (or through foam) would allow just engine vacuum on the other side of the actuator to influence the actuator's action. Capping it off might create an "air spring" on that side of the actuator.

cbloveday
04-03-10, 08:42 PM
Thanks. I put foam/air filter on the "X" port, just like the unmarked port.

Again, appreciate your response.

P.S. I also got the an opportunity too sneak out of the house and met LAVAMAN. Nice guy.

qictrk
04-03-10, 11:22 PM
Here is the way I interpret what Jess said. He said to cap the open end of the p-valve line. That would be the same as caping O, which is where the line goes. Then leave the p-valve line open. Take a look: http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2206170060032470346MLlhex

Ive been driveing like this for the last few months and gauge shows plently of boost. If wrong, let me know. Cecil...........

cbloveday
04-04-10, 12:20 AM
Cecil,

I am really confused now.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/DSC_0276-1.jpg

I sent jess a pic which showed the circled port above uncapped. When I was dynoing locally, the tech thought it should be capped.
Jess said he had capped it and it must have come off. So I capped it. Everything else on the regulator valve (X, O, & non-descriptive port) was untouched.
So, as it stands right now, I have put a foam/air filter on the X port.

If this is wrong, let me know as well.

CadV
04-04-10, 12:46 AM
My understanding was to cap the p valve which is why all the threads were called that. That being named that because of the O and P wire.

cbloveday
04-04-10, 01:03 AM
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/DSC_0276-1.jpg



Ok, so if Cecil has it right, where does his X wire go? Does it go up to the port which was capped in this photo?
Jesse told me to cap this port on the supercharger.

I do not have an X wire at all. (*(*$)$$*@$&*@*#)@*@_!+(!+



I read this post and I am not thoroughly confused. Some people are capping the P port on the actuator and leaving the O line open.


http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/174460-p-valve-question.html

cbloveday
04-04-10, 10:24 AM
I just confirmed with another member that he has the same bypass actuator and bypass regulator arrangement as I do.
Both builds were similar and recent. Neither had the p valve capped.

So , I can demise that Jesse is now capping the inlet/outlet I circled in the previous photo, and removing the X wire.

qictrk
04-04-10, 03:25 PM
Cecil,

I am really confused now.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/DSC_0276-1.jpg

I sent jess a pic which showed the circled port above uncapped. When I was dynoing locally, the tech thought it should be capped.
Jess said he had capped it and it must have come off. So I capped it. Everything else on the regulator valve (X, O, & non-descriptive port) was untouched.
So, as it stands right now, I have put a foam/air filter on the X port.

If this is wrong, let me know as well.
That picture is not the Pvalve. Its the SC and goes to the X. The bottom of the Pvalve has a line and is marked with a tag that says "P". The other end of the line is marked with an "O". PM me and I will give you a call. Lets talk about this. Give me a time to call and in what zone your in. Cecil........

cbloveday
04-04-10, 05:06 PM
Cecil,

I know the picture is not the Pvalve, that is where my confusion is. My understanding is the below points to the Pvalve on the bypass actuator.

In this thread there is discussion about capping the Pvalve or removing the X tube accomplishes the same thing. I Pm'd you with my number.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/174460-p-valve-question-4.html


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/pvalve.jpg

CadV
04-04-10, 07:51 PM
Jesse told us early on it was the p-valve so I guess that has changed.

cbloveday
04-04-10, 07:53 PM
I'm still gonna speak with him (Jesse) directly and report back to everyone. I'll try Monday.
I had a nice discusion with Cecil today (qictrk). GREAT guy!

glgjr
04-04-10, 11:58 PM
I used to think that the car would regulate maximum boost but after working on the car and watching the boost actuator during dyno pulls I think the valve only controls the recirculation valve during idle and partial throttle.

cbloveday
04-05-10, 08:53 AM
I emailed Jesse and got an auto reply that he is in London until 4/12.

CTSV4now
04-05-10, 05:20 PM
http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/detroit-2008-gm-lsa-v-8/#4

Here is the stock setup

cbloveday
04-05-10, 06:24 PM
Thanks I saved that photo. :)

I went to the auto store today and bought a piece of PCV tube which had the same internal diameter as the stock tube. I do not have an "X" connecting tube.
After my build it was not provided to me as I suspect it was not needed.

I installed the PCV tube the way qictrk (Cecil) pictured. Capped O, left P connected to actuator and ran my X (PCV tube) up to the SC.

I then went out and put the pedal to the floor while observing the Boost Gauge. It boost needle did go up to 14psi. If memory serves me, in the past I have seen this go up to 15. I dunno. Seat of pants felt the same. I put it back the way I had it. I ordered my "X" tube from the dealer. They are on back order as you might guess. Why? Beats me. Anyway, because another previous build identical to mine has the same setup, op is stock, x vented and supercharger capped, I put it back the way it was when I left Jesses' shop.

I will try to get to the bottom of this when Jesse returns from London.

cbloveday
04-05-10, 10:07 PM
Jesse sent me an Email. I asked about the X wire being gone and the Pvalve
question. I asked him to call me asap. Below is his response.

"You dont need it. I already bypassed it for you. It is done the way needed. that top cap is plugged at the charger itself. then the V valve is hooked up to vacume like needed. We pull it out and remove them like that so people dont put them back on and let the computer back your boost down at wot.

Im still in london and cant call, ill be back on monday next week. Phone is 12dollars a minute here.."

Somefun
04-28-10, 06:49 AM
Guy's what is this all about are you guy's seeing gains with this mod? This is the first I've seen on this....

cbloveday
04-28-10, 06:56 AM
It was done so boost is not limited.

Somefun
04-28-10, 09:09 AM
So if this is not done the boost is limited? I bought a 9.5 plully from Jess to make more boost and he never said anything about this mod. So is it dumping boost at WOT?

cbloveday
04-28-10, 09:24 AM
Call Jesse and discuss this with him. I am really not knowledgable enough. Perhaps someone else will confirm. In one of the threads there is extensive discussion.

CPVee
04-28-10, 02:36 PM
Here is the way I interpret what Jess said. He said to cap the open end of the p-valve line. That would be the same as caping O, which is where the line goes. Then leave the p-valve line open. Take a look: http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2206170060032470346MLlhex

Ive been driveing like this for the last few months and gauge shows plently of boost. If wrong, let me know. Cecil...........

After reading Jesse's response I also believe that this is what he said. Cecil has it right. I have done the same thing on mine. Remove tube on "O" and cap it. It's the same as removing the tube on P and plugging it.

GMX322V S/C
04-28-10, 04:36 PM
So if this is not done the boost is limited? I bought a 9.5 plully from Jess to make more boost and he never said anything about this mod. So is it dumping boost at WOT?The stock ECM is programmed to dump boost at 12 PSI through this mechanism.

cbloveday
04-28-10, 06:50 PM
After reading Jesse's response I also believe that this is what he said. Cecil has it right. I have done the same thing on mine. Remove tube on "O" and cap it. It's the same as removing the tube on P and plugging it.

Jesse further stated to me that he did mine by removing the X cable and capping the port on the block. He said he is doing it this way so when your V is being serviced, the tech does not reconnect the tubing.

There is at least one other member on this board that I spoke to who has essentially the identicle build and his tubings were done the same way.

I believe either way will get the desired effect.

qictrk
04-28-10, 07:02 PM
I better chime in here. The way I had done it, I believe works. But, I ended up changeing it to the way Cbloveday has it set up. I did it after speaking to him and his conversation with Jesse. The car seems to run the same no matter which way I set it up, but I will leave it the way Cbloveday has it for now. I am temped to take another run on the dyno with my setup. The first and only run I made was done with the stock setup on the lines. Probably why my numbers were not as good as I had hoped. Cecil.........

Havasusteve
04-01-12, 01:06 AM
OK, I would like to resurrect this old thread to see what you guys have found out since its inception.

Has anyone quantified that the ECM actually limits boost @ 12psi through the mechanisms described? If so, which method ultimately is the correct one?

1. Disconnecting "O" at the Boost Control Solenoid and "P" at the Bypass Valve Actuator?

If this method was used, did you cap off both "O" and "P" or neither

2 Disconnecting "X" @ the BCS and at the S/C?

If this method was used, did you cap off both "X" and the S/C source or neither


I did the search and wasnt able to find any SOLID resolve with confirmation as to what happens when this method is tested.

Thanks ahead of time

Steve

rbanshee1
04-01-12, 06:00 PM
OK, I would like to resurrect this old thread to see what you guys have found out since its inception.

Has anyone quantified that the ECM actually limits boost @ 12psi through the mechanisms described? If so, which method ultimately is the correct one?

1. Disconnecting "O" at the Boost Control Solenoid and "P" at the Bypass Valve Actuator?

If this method was used, did you cap off both "O" and "P" or neither

2 Disconnecting "X" @ the BCS and at the S/C?

If this method was used, did you cap off both "X" and the S/C source or neither

I did the search and wasnt able to find any SOLID resolve with confirmation as to what happens when this method is tested.

Thanks ahead of time

Steve

So this is a must when changing upper or lower pulley when boost is added?(added boost will bleed off )

Q8 6.2
04-01-12, 06:40 PM
Oh waw very shocking to see cbloveday doing it this way.. All I did was rais the boost limit in the tune I don't need to pull anything I'm at 14 psi no problems at all.

miamictsv
04-02-12, 07:55 PM
I am at 16.3 PSI max and only done via tuning nothing else.

Havasusteve
04-02-12, 10:20 PM
Thanks for the responses guys. Can any of the original crowd convey solid proof that we are ok without disconnecting anything?

Steve

baabootoo
04-02-12, 11:50 PM
I'm sticking with the newer crowd myself...... :)

Q8 6.2
04-03-12, 07:54 AM
Thanks for the responses guys. Can any of the original crowd convey solid proof that we are ok without disconnecting anything?

Steve

Why do you need proof look above 16 psi .... Maybe the reasons others are doing it that fu way is because they are using w4me hand held programmer hack... it has very limited tables to edit.unlike real tuning software which has hundreds... Do a search on blown up motors around that time most were using that pos w4me programmer. Think about it why didn't superchips offer support for the ctsv superchips can see,read and write to the car.but maybe they had very limited parameter and didn't want to distroy customer cars.

Havasusteve
04-03-12, 01:13 PM
Q;

I dont need additional proof. I should have worded my last post differently. I should have asked this question to you and miamictsv; The boost you are seing, is it on your gauge or is it confirmed through dyno/tuning results? If you guys are seing it factually outside of the gauge, then that is way good enough for me an quashes the arguement that was originally started. ;)

I am not trying to justify W4M AT ALL. I am a car guy just trying to understand the ins-n-outs of this beast the best I can.

Thanks for your help

Regards

Steve

wait4me
04-03-12, 02:34 PM
Why do you need proof look above 16 psi .... Maybe the reasons others are doing it that fu way is because they are using w4me hand held programmer hack... it has very limited tables to edit.unlike real tuning software which has hundreds... Do a search on blown up motors around that time most were using that pos w4me programmer. Think about it why didn't superchips offer support for the ctsv superchips can see,read and write to the car.but maybe they had very limited parameter and didn't want to distroy customer cars.



Where do you get your facts from? Sct has more tables available than any other software released. Even more than efilive... Also another wrong thing out of your mouth that people are blowing up engines with them. So much bull crap with 0 proof.


As for the p valve bypass. There are several ways to do it. It works without computer intervention as well so even if you remove the wiring to it, it still does things to your boost. Watch the video I posted a whole ago on how it works.. It is a simple priciple function. Just there to control extra boost...

JOEYCTS-V
04-03-12, 05:36 PM
Wow, it only took exactly 2 years to the day to get a response. Very weird.

Q8 6.2
04-03-12, 05:40 PM
Where do you get your facts from? Sct has more tables available than any other software released. Even more than efilive... Also another wrong thing out of your mouth that people are blowing up engines with them. So much bull crap with 0 proof.


As for the p valve bypass. There are several ways to do it. It works without computer intervention as well so even if you remove the wiring to it, it still does things to your boost. Watch the video I posted a whole ago on how it works.. It is a simple priciple function. Just there to control extra boost...

SHUT UP dumdum
You know I don't believe a word you say i have said it before you are a master of excuses that don't requier proof.
So you are saying sct went thru all this trouble and expense of making a huge achievement and has more tables than anyone else then they just threw all that away by not selling it to the ctsv people? isn't sct in the business to sell programmers? That dose not make sense..

Yes I saw many cars blow up that had your tune it was getting out of hand but you will not admit it and always blame something else went wrong without proof.

Just like the crappy paper weight u sold me and all the excuses that came with it so say what you want but I don't believe you.

qictrk
04-03-12, 07:05 PM
I put a plug on the nipple that comes off the SC. The line that was there was marked X. I now leave that line open. The car runs great and I have no issues
with it. Cecil...............

qictrk
04-04-12, 01:03 AM
Here are a couple of pictures I took to show what I did. 89335
You can see the plug and the x line that was pulled off. I just left the X line open.
89337 Cecil.............

baabootoo
04-07-12, 08:16 PM
Why does the love always go first?????? :)

Tedboss1
04-17-12, 11:45 AM
There is a new video from Jesse on this subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz8ljMabPTI&feature=uploademail

qictrk
04-17-12, 05:19 PM
There is a new video from Jesse on this subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz8ljMabPTI&feature=uploademail

Is there an old one to look at? I want to make sure I plugged and unplugged the right ones. Cecil....................

wait4me
04-17-12, 05:33 PM
It is simple. pull off the hose that goes from the P valve and boost controller. let the P valve vent to atmosphere. "If you cap it, it will hurt your boost"

Then you Pull the hose going from the boost controller to the Vac port on the supercharger itself, then CAP that supercharger vac port. Leave the boost controller in the car or pull it out. A code will be thrown if you pull it out, so it would need to be tuned if you remove it completely.

For people that want to be stealth:
Put a bb inside the vac hose that is on the supercharger port in the fitting. it will block the flow to the boost controller.. Then on the P valve hose take a razor and slice a few lines into it to make it breathe. Then the system looks like it is still there and working but has been bypassed.

qictrk
04-18-12, 12:25 AM
It is simple. pull off the hose that goes from the P valve and boost controller. let the P valve vent to atmosphere. "If you cap it, it will hurt your boost"

Then you Pull the hose going from the boost controller to the Vac port on the supercharger itself, then CAP that supercharger vac port. Leave the boost controller in the car or pull it out. A code will be thrown if you pull it out, so it would need to be tuned if you remove it completely.

For people that want to be stealth:
Put a bb inside the vac hose that is on the supercharger port in the fitting. it will block the flow to the boost controller.. Then on the P valve hose take a razor and slice a few lines into it to make it breathe. Then the system looks like it is still there and working but has been bypassed.
Jesse, if you could, would you post a couple of pictures of what it looks like after its done. There are two lines going to the boost controller and I just pulled the upper one off. That line has a V label. The SC has two nipples and also has an upper
and lower one. I capped the lower one, which is where the V labeled line when to. I hope this is right. Cecil.................

qictrk
04-18-12, 12:42 AM
This setup is wrong. Disregard the pictures. Cecil...................

wait4me
04-18-12, 09:03 AM
Cecil, you had it right before. P valve unplugged, and capped on the Front of the supercharger. The ones in the picture are for the V valve.

Havasusteve
04-19-12, 01:05 AM
Cecil, you had it right before. P valve unplugged, and capped on the Front of the supercharger. The ones in the picture are for the V valve.

I have re-attached the diagram posted earlier for reference. This is what I understand Jesse and all;

1. Jesse says disconnect "P" at the Bypass Valve actuator and "O" at the Boost Control Solenoid; thus eliminating the Boost signal (Correct?)

2. Disconnect "X" at the Boost Control Solenoid AND the S/C inlet (Boost Vacuum source) ;Cap @ the S/C inlet where "X" was connected (Correct?)

That is what I read and see based on the diagram. Can you confirm please? (Correct?)

Lastly, by doing this, the increase in boost above 12psi will not be prevented & subsequently transmitted to the ECU (Correct?) :thepan:

Best Regards

Steve

HeavyH20
04-19-12, 08:21 AM
There are definitely two camps on this. First, that the bypass solenoid is only triggered in an overboost scenario where the controller is triggered to release boost to the solenoid and second, that the bypass valve and solenoid are physical components that will work in spite of the electronic controller. Maybe, maybe not. So, how does it normally work?


There are two chambers on the boost solenoid, one that pulls (vacuum) and one that pushes (pressure). These are the two plug in types (P for pressure and V for Vacuum).
The vaccuum of your inlet keep the boost bypass fully open while your car is normally operating. When you floor it, vacuum drops and the bypass plate closes allowing the already spinning supercharger to create boost.
The boost builds to a point where the manifold connector sends a pressure signal to the bypass sensor. When this threshold is exceeded, it opens the P valve and sends boost to the solenoid opening the throttle plate to relieve pressure until pressure is back to the programmed safe value.


So, with that said, what does bypassing the solenoid offer? Anything? Well, based on the normal operations, it certainly seems there would be no benefit. The boost pressure is bled into the atmosphere by the Pressure bypass controller until the threshold is reached where it sends pressure to the solenoid. Makes sense.

On the second camp, by plugging the manifold pressure output (X), you stop some pressure leakage (slight) and send no pressure at all to the pressure controller. Since it never gets an overboost call, it never opens and never sends pressure to the solenoid. By keeping teh solenoid vented to the atmosphere, only the vaccuum controls the bypass and in no scenario does boost affect the solenoid operation. It also allows less static air (on the P side) to allow the solenoid to move a bit faster (boost ramp in). You can also tweak the ramp in by moving the solenoid slightly so that when vacuum is relieved, the plate closes faster.

Now, to answer the open question, both camps are right. The pressure is certainly defined in tables, but, it is not a cliff value. As the pressure is built up rapidly, it begins to send pressure to the solenoid as it approches the pressure trigger where it completely opens. It is not an on/off switch. I did some testing when I was at the track, and, bypassing the solenoid net me 2 MPH in the traps. The car drives a little less smooth (the ramping) but definitely has more oomph. In both scenarios, I had the full 15 PSI on the boost gauge which is why many were questioning the benefit of the bypass since they saw still all of their boost (it is definitely there). The advantage comes with ramp in and full boost scenarios where the bypass plate is completely closed versus slightly open. It does actually make a difference to perform the bypass. I would love to see someone try it on a dyno (blocked versus bypass).

Havasusteve
04-19-12, 08:40 AM
Heavy,

Thanks for your response. What I hear you saying then throws the whole concept that the solenoid "Limits" excess boost out the window, is that correct? (e.g. pulley mods that exceed 12+psi are not effected boost wise in either scenario)

Next question is, aside from the ramping issue, can anyone say with certainty that outside of smog cerification issues, is there any downside to this change?

Thanks again

Steve

qictrk
04-20-12, 02:02 AM
Steve, what you mentioned on the diagram is correct. You don't have to take off "O" since its open anyway. Thats up to you.
The other one that is left open is the "P" and it and just hang there like the "O". They are both open. You then cap, as in my picture
on page 3, the stem that comes straight forward out of the SC. I've been driveing that way for some time and have had no problems.
You can rehook them up for visual inspection if you want, but don't come into play with smog. Cecil....................