: Jakes Sur Grip Stud - Norms NS300L Sirt- Time Sirt's Wich have you doen



ThumperPup
04-02-10, 11:27 PM
Ok just thought i would start a poll see who has used
Jakes Stud's who have goen the GM Time Sirt Way and
Who has used Norms NS300L Sirt kit

how happy are you with your desision
how many miles and how long has it been since you had the Job Doen or did it yourself and are you still going strong
would you have doen a difrant way if given another chance

IXSLR8
04-03-10, 12:40 AM
I installed Norms inserts and found them to work extremely well. I have not had any issues after installing them in the block. I also used ARP studs with Norms inserts and Cometic gaskets.

I used Norms inserts before I knew about Jakes stud kit. Norms kit is cheaper by comparison but you have more parts in the block. I like the idea of using less parts in your block to strap the heads down. So, I would consider Jakes idea of a simple stud next time round.

Either way you decide to go, both will work well.

ThumperPup
04-03-10, 01:38 AM
I installed Norms inserts and found them to work extremely well. I have not had any issues after installing them in the block. I also used ARP studs with Norms inserts and Cometic gaskets.

I used Norms inserts before I knew about Jakes stud kit. Norms kit is cheaper by comparison but you have more parts in the block. I like the idea of using less parts in your block to strap the heads down. So, I would consider Jakes idea of a simple stud next time round.

Either way you decide to go, both will work well.

just out of curiosity i know that i did read somewhere to use ARP studs but curiosue what does a stud do better for the ARP studs then to use bolts ?

also how long has it been since you did the job has it been a few years or just a year how many miles would you say you have on the caddy since

THanks

Mark C
04-03-10, 08:43 AM
Not really a fair poll, as the studs have only been available in the last year, Timeserts go all the way back to the late 90's.

That said 2 different engines done with timeserts, one with 43K on it over 2 years, the other just has a couple of thousand over the past 3 months or so. Both done by me in the driveway with the timesert kit, and an air powered drill. I'm sticking with the timeserts, mainly because I have the kit already and each job only costs me a set of 20 inserts (about 60 bucks) plus gaskets and other misc parts. Not that I'm looking forward to doing anymore, but if the right car comes along cheap needing headgaskets I might try another one or two.

ThumperPup
04-03-10, 09:56 AM
Not really a fair poll, as the studs have only been available in the last year, Timeserts go all the way back to the late 90's.

That said 2 different engines done with timeserts, one with 43K on it over 2 years, the other just has a couple of thousand over the past 3 months or so. Both done by me in the driveway with the timesert kit, and an air powered drill. I'm sticking with the timeserts, mainly because I have the kit already and each job only costs me a set of 20 inserts (about 60 bucks) plus gaskets and other misc parts. Not that I'm looking forward to doing anymore, but if the right car comes along cheap needing headgaskets I might try another one or two.

was not trying to mae the poll fair or un fair
just see who used what product and method

for me im gona have the car for atleast 3 or 4 more years if not more and i put about 43k on my car a year in the last 11 months iv driven 41k

jsiddall
04-05-10, 10:42 PM
Not really a fair poll, as the studs have only been available in the last year, Timeserts go all the way back to the late 90's.

That said 2 different engines done with timeserts, one with 43K on it over 2 years, the other just has a couple of thousand over the past 3 months or so. Both done by me in the driveway with the timesert kit, and an air powered drill. I'm sticking with the timeserts, mainly because I have the kit already and each job only costs me a set of 20 inserts (about 60 bucks) plus gaskets and other misc parts. Not that I'm looking forward to doing anymore, but if the right car comes along cheap needing headgaskets I might try another one or two.

Likewise, I did timeserts because when I did it about five years back I think that's all there was! It is about 30K miles later now and still no issues.

However, unlike you, I don't think I would do another one even if someone gave me the car for free!

That reminds me, anyone want to buy a lightly used timesert tool? :)

97EldoCoupe
04-06-10, 07:50 AM
My .02 probably doesn't belong here.

I have installed studs in about 15 cars that have had timeserts in them before. I sold an engine to a guy in Michigan because he installed _orms in it. And it failed within two hours of driving. I have his block with those inserts in the back corner of my shop.

Factory head bolts. Designed to act like a spring. Long springy bolts. Good idea?! NO. Can you accurately torque a long springy bolt? Studs of any kind be it ARP, or mine, will not twist while you're torquing. You are at that point pulling straight up on the stud itself, stretching just enough vertically to provide an accurate clamp load.

As for two thread interfaces within roughly a 1/2" to 5/8" diameter. It works. yes. Big serts have been known to crack blocks. Why? the overall outside diameter is slightly less than that of _orms inserts. A sleeve of steel machined both internally and externally. Threads are slightly angled (60 degrees?) so what happens when you apply a high amount of torque inside a thin sleeve, when all threads are angled by nature? The insert expands. When an insert expands inside a precision machined hole, in an aluminum casting, what's going to happen? C - R - A -C - K.

A solid machined bolt or stud cannot expand in diameter under torque.

M11 is rougly the size of a 7/16" bolt. Imagine drilling and tapping a hole that's about .433" inside a 5/8" bolt. The solid part of a 5/8" bolt is about .5315 (17/32" because a 5/8" bolt is only 5/8 if you include the threads)

So you have an insert with a .433 inside diamter and an external wall (not including threads) of .5315. How thick is the wall? .0493". Not even a sixteenth of an inch. Go look at a tape measure and check out how thick one sixteenth of an inch is. Now imagine 21% less thickness. There's the thickness of the best insert on the market, that is supposed to hold the heads down on your high compression Northstar. I didn't even know about _orms inserts when I designed the studs. All that I knew was available was time serts. I didn't like that idea. I wouldn't be comfortable with an insert with a wall thickness of .0493 and any thinner than that is to laugh at.

To anyone who has inserts in their engine and it's holding up, I seriously hope and wish that you have continued success with them. I just don't want anyone going through this work, trouble, and expense more than once. Too many people bash Northstars already- they're well designed, awesome engines and don't deserve the bad rep they've been getting from some.

If I have any of this math wrong, forgive me it's early. I'll check factory head bolt with a mic when I head out to the shop. Whatever the math, the basics are still there. Two thread interfaces, a skinny threaded sleeve, and a very thin, long and springy head bolt. A combination for diaster.

tateos
04-06-10, 11:51 AM
What's this all about?:

Rest in peace JD ("Dirt_Cheap_Fleetwood"). I used to be a RWD addict too and I wish I would have had a chance to get to know you. Take care of yourself in the afterlife.

97EldoCoupe
04-07-10, 12:18 PM
Tateos - don't know if you followed the posts in the lounge - a fellow forum member has passed away. He seemed to love rear wheel drive cars, as I used to (and still do). I am a big fan of GM B-body cars. (Hence the 76 Olds with the 455)

postman2000
04-08-10, 05:01 PM
Used jakes studs in my 2000 deville about 16,000 miles ago. Temp gauge never runs past the middle.. Even on the hottest days with a/c on.. Go with the studs.. Its the only sure thing if you want to keep your car for a long time.. Dont even think twice.. Every other repair is just a band aid..

ThumperPup
04-13-10, 02:47 AM
iv been having some things go on the past week i was suposed to head up last weekend to jakes for the HG's but i ended up not going my dad had went with me to the GM Dealer was gona co sighn for a 2006 STS with 10k on it certifies warranty and all
but when they came back saying that he would have to be first on the title as the owner and not co sighner for some odd reasons not sure why they said that
he said no
he was first on the title for my brother years ago when he had somehting happen and then he caused an acident and dad got sewed so he said only way he would use his credit to cosighn is if i could be first on the title and they said in order to do that they would have to go threw a high risk finanace company to use me and it would be like 18-22% they didnt get to run the credit cause dad said no
becaus ethe dealer said with me first on the tittle and 2 years outside of a bankruptcy even with my 640 score he guarenteed that no company would come back with less then 16% for me
so i didn't get the new caddy i wanted
and now im gona head up to jake when he has time talke to the girl who answers his phones wanted to see if i could get it up there this weekend but he got slamed with alot of cars over the weekend that he was not even planing on so now i have to wait and hear back to find out when
wich really really sucks waiting

roym01
04-13-10, 10:05 AM
PupFromCleveland,

Drop me a line at roym01@hotmail.com. I've got an interesting story you might want to hear regarding my experience. I tried to send you a PM but am still a rookie with no rights.

maeng9981
04-13-10, 07:25 PM
I am currently one of the two who voted on "nothing wrong"...


99 Deville, 100,100 miles, no major engine work but regular maintenance. No problems.

00 Seville, 84,000 miles, no major engine work but regular maintenance. No problems.

I found my friend who borrowed block tester from AZ and I borrowed from him just for the heck of it. Happy to see the fluid staying blue. My 99 is due for spark plug w/ wires and coolant drain/refill.

tateos
04-16-10, 08:53 PM
I am currently one of the two who voted on "nothing wrong"...


99 Deville, 100,100 miles, no major engine work but regular maintenance. No problems.
My 99 is due for spark plug w/ wires and coolant drain/refill.


'99 with 100K miles - yeah - it's actually due for HG failure and replacement - you can change the plugs and coolant then. ;-)

ThumperPup
04-16-10, 09:06 PM
I ended up going with the Norm NS300L Sirt's
with all that is going on right now i opted for it because of personal reasons so just waiting for it to get back now its at MidwestCadillacRepair in IL right now
droped it off yesterday morning by now the engine should be out of the car and by tomorrow this time hoping to hear back from Joe and find out whats going on

maeng9981
04-18-10, 05:48 AM
'99 with 100K miles - yeah - it's actually due for HG failure and replacement - you can change the plugs and coolant then. ;-)

Let's see how far it would go without blowing HG. :) In my opinion, HGs don't have 'due's; the bolts quit holding whenever they want. I've seen people having 50,000 miles with head bolts lifting; also seen people having 300,000 miles out of them without having any head/block issues. Who knows you're in what side?

Call me optimistic, but hey, the engine satisfied someone for 11 years so far and will do more.

Even if any of my Northstar screws head bolts up in some day, I am happy to see it running again with Jake's studs.

Harry Yarnell
04-18-10, 01:30 PM
I've done three now with Timeserts. No problems. I'll probably continue using Timeserts as I've got the installation kit, and I am not keen on getting another kit to install studs, though I like the idea.

eyekandyboats.inc
04-18-10, 10:57 PM
when you say another kit, it makes it seem like it a huge deal! LOL. its a tap and a plate! HAHA.
plus it comes with it when you buy it

ThumperPup
04-22-10, 03:25 AM
just picked up the seville from the shop today drove it home from chicago area 285 miles and drove smooth and great temp was at 12:00 the entir ride home

roym01
04-22-10, 09:58 AM
Got my 99 STS back from Jake yesterday. Drove home about 100K and all seems good except for a little "stumble" at idle. Sometimes more noticeable than others.

Temp at noon the whole way but over-heating was never a symptom. I was only at the losing coolant stage so I will monitor coolant level over the next few days to see if the repair was successful.

Very nice drive up to Langton. Had a chance to meet the Wiebe's. Great people!

jpix
04-23-10, 11:14 PM
Getting my '98 Deville fixed by Cadillac Specialities in Louisville KY in a few weeks using Norms. Can't wait to get it back on the road.

bigblockolds
04-23-10, 11:37 PM
I did my 1998 Eldo at 80K with Norms kit. The kit worked flawlessly. Very easy to use and good directions. Car now has 85K. Incidentally I bought a second set of Norms inserts to do another car, but the owner decided against making the repair. So I'd like to sell this kit. I bought a whole set of inserts and a new tap. I'd be willing to sell this new kit for $300. It is the deluxe kit that includes all the inserts, tap and drill alignment jigs, cutting fluid, etc. It is exactly what you'll pay over $400 to get through his ebay listing.

Can take pictures and can take paypal. Email to: jsalinardi@comcast.net

edb150
04-24-10, 10:28 PM
Send me an email or call me as I am interested in it. I have one but do these on a regular basis and want to have 2 people working at the same time. 847-878-5676 or joeplow@hotmail.com

lynbr
03-15-12, 09:50 PM
does anyone know of anyone who has jakes head stud kit, been searching everywhere for it, and i will get it one way or another........determined to get my northstar running

maeng9981
03-15-12, 10:54 PM
Jake has been going through truck load of personal difficulties and he will be (hopefully) available soon. Keep an eye on http://www.northstarperformance.com/ for further updates.