: what are the SAFEST MODS. with no programming to keep the warranty ???



UAEmonster
04-02-10, 01:40 PM
Am looking for the safest mods. for our car where u don't need programming (( without programming ))to keep the warranty ??

and what can be the gains for these mods. ?

am thinking of corsa with x-pipe and D3 air intake - what do u think guys?
coz i heared that with corsa's u might get some power loss !!!! so u'd be better with them !! is that true ?!?!!

Thanks in advance

Umrswimr
04-02-10, 01:44 PM
I've never believed any HP gains (in a performance car) by changing exhausts. IMHO, it's a sound modification, not a power mod. Claims of 2-10hp are within the margin of error of the dyno and correction and not really convincing...

The airbox can be changed and will give you a few ponies, but the $/hp is pretty ugly.

UAEmonster
04-02-10, 01:57 PM
I've never believed any HP gains (in a performance car) by changing exhausts. IMHO, it's a sound modification, not a power mod. Claims of 2-10hp are within the margin of error of the dyno and correction and not really convincing...

The airbox can be changed and will give you a few ponies, but the $/hp is pretty ugly.

thanks for replying

yeah i know that , that's y am asking if there is something else i can do ?

and what about the pully (( crank pully )) ? can it be done without programming ?!?!

thebigjimsho
04-02-10, 03:25 PM
thanks for replying

yeah i know that , that's y am asking if there is something else i can do ?

and what about the pully (( crank pully )) ? can it be done without programming ?!?!
Anything that plays with air/fuel ratios(and w/ a pulley you're playing with boost) needs tuning. Unless it's such a small difference such as a catback and CAI...

RemoWilliams
04-02-10, 03:39 PM
I asked my service adviser what I could add and keep the warranty. He said anything more a cat-back exhaust and CAI and I would have issues with any engine related warranty work.

cbloveday
04-02-10, 07:55 PM
I asked my service adviser what I could add and keep the warranty. He said anything more a cat-back exhaust and CAI and I would have issues with any engine related warranty work.

Depending on the warranty item, you may be pushing it with a CAI

Gary Wells
04-02-10, 08:48 PM
I do believe that at least 2 people on this forum had reasonably good success with mods without tunes. At least 1 was running a crank *pulley*, CAI, & maybe an axleback. It has been posted on this section of the forum that the Corsa Touring axleback will produce maybe 16, but i really don't remember if that was crank or RWHP. I think that D3 might have done the actual dyno runs for Corsa. For a semi-CAI you might want to consider a factory box with a filter change and the bottom section of the box cut out, then buy another *stock* box for trips to the *dealer*.

neuronbob
04-02-10, 09:11 PM
I asked my service adviser what I could add and keep the warranty. He said anything more a cat-back exhaust and CAI and I would have issues with any engine related warranty work.

Was told the same by my servicing dealer. I am planning on a modded stock airbox instead of a true CAI, that seems to be the best option and is stock-ish.

UAEmonster
04-03-10, 11:05 AM
Depending on the warranty item, you may be pushing it with a CAI


Yes , but our dealer here in UAE has no problem with the corsa and CAI
and anything more will avoid the warranty as they claim.

UAEmonster
04-03-10, 11:07 AM
I do believe that at least 2 people on this forum had reasonably good success with mods without tunes. At least 1 was running a crank *pulley*, CAI, & maybe an axleback. It has been posted on this section of the forum that the Corsa Touring axleback will produce maybe 16, but i really don't remember if that was crank or RWHP. I think that D3 might have done the actual dyno runs for Corsa. For a semi-CAI you might want to consider a factory box with a filter change and the bottom section of the box cut out, then buy another *stock* box for trips to the *dealer*.


ok , but i heared that pully needs tuning coz it is related to the boost that's y !
and about the CAI , i think the D3 ones will do .

UAEmonster
04-03-10, 11:12 AM
I was seriously thinking of adding some more power (( stage 2 - about 550 RWHP)) , but one day i was going to the dealer workshop , and i saw a V parked long time ago ! when i asked about it , they said it has a serious engine problem , coz the owner made tuning and it will not be under warranty because of that ..!!!!
as they told me the new engine costs about 75,000 AED , which means something like 21,000 $ !!!!

Gary Wells
04-03-10, 12:18 PM
ok , but i heared that pully needs tuning coz it is related to the boost that's y !
and about the CAI , I think the D3 ones will do .
I am not saying that a tune will not improve a *stock* other than CAI and pulley mod, I am saying that I believe that 2 peeps on this forum ran a pulley & other light mods without a tune for the same concerns that you have. A big consideration would be who you heard that from, and if there is any financial gain opportunity for them (Is whoever you heard that from a tuner?).

Gary Wells
04-03-10, 02:33 PM
OK, here's one here:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/184839-9-9-5-pulley-mod-stock.html

EXTM
04-03-10, 07:16 PM
anything will have affect on Air/Fuel and power gains, it will need a tune to get it right and dont end up with broken parts. the stock ECU is capable of adjusting within a percentage, and then it will be off the line. on the Vs, unless the cold air intanke doesnt affect the MAF, then it should be just fine, most of the times, i have seen an affect, but in anyway, the car has already some pulley upgrades where a tune comes to be required.
corsa didnt require at tune at all. you can run and just be fine, and yes it adds power., on the other hands, the headers/x pipe will add more than the corsa by itself.

if you cut the stock air box, it wouldnt Void the warranty?? i bet they will talk trash at the dealer!

EXTM
04-03-10, 07:22 PM
I was seriously thinking of adding some more power (( stage 2 - about 550 RWHP)) , but one day i was going to the dealer workshop , and i saw a V parked long time ago ! when i asked about it , they said it has a serious engine problem , coz the owner made tuning and it will not be under warranty because of that ..!!!!
as they told me the new engine costs about 75,000 AED , which means something like 21,000 $ !!!!

thats one example of a serious mistake in the setup. assure you that he did some serious replacments and didnt even bother by a tune, or just had a bad tune.

i have seen some customers running many mods with some/without tunes and their WOT is 14:1 A/F, you tell me if this is OK!

from my experience, we have done to date 11 Vs down here at the shop, not so many arround, but mostly everyone you see here in town and they are around here in the forum too. all of them made between 555-585 rwhp on the dyno with all bolt on stuff, and have been runing great since then. so its not an issue of that you run 550rwhp and you end up like that fellow at the dealer. if that is the case, no one will even touch the cars.

there are so many success in the Vs all around the world, its just how to make it right.

just my 2 cents Pal.

Gary Wells
04-03-10, 08:20 PM
If you go to most dealers with a cut factory air box, you are asking for trouble.
If you go to most dealers with oily K & N in there, or any one of the other brands that are oil impregnated type filters, then you are asking for trouble. There is just no reason to chance voiding any portion of your warranty on something so simple to change back to factory specs. But an extra factory air box & put it on for trips to the dealer. Same for a factory air filter. I am not saying to cheat Gm on the warranty, but I am inclined to believe that if you ever go to the dealers for warranty work, even if it wasn't due to you sporting a K & N air filter and a cut box, you will get blamed for it anyway probably.
A little risk assessment will probably go a long way towards saving your warranty.

cbloveday
04-03-10, 08:33 PM
I personally am confortble with cat backs only. JMO

Gary Wells
04-03-10, 08:33 PM
BTW, FWIW, & IMHO, I am not recommending that anybody run any mods without a tune, but I think that some mods are less risk than others without a tune, and you still would miss the extra RWHP & RWTQ, and some drivability improvements that fine tuning accomplishes. Tune almost always improves mileage also.

Gary Wells
04-03-10, 08:42 PM
I personally am confortble with cat backs only. JMO
I would tend to agree with you, Curtis. I think that a cat-back, spark plug wires, coil packs such as the MSD units, intercooler improvements,
would be OK, and maybe a 9" pulley on a temporary basis.
9.5" pulleys or anything larger, injector changes, headers, cat removal, or anything substantial should be not done without a tune. All just a guess on my part.

Gary Wells
04-03-10, 08:46 PM
thats one example of a serious mistake in the setup. assure you that he did some serious replacments and didnt even bother by a tune, or just had a bad tune.

i have seen some customers running many mods with some/without tunes and their WOT is 14:1 A/F, you tell me if this is OK!

from my experience, we have done to date 11 Vs down here at the shop, not so many arround, but mostly everyone you see here in town and they are around here in the forum too. all of them made between 555-585 rwhp on the dyno with all bolt on stuff, and have been runing great since then. so its not an issue of that you run 550rwhp and you end up like that fellow at the dealer. if that is the case, no one will even touch the cars.

there are so many success in the Vs all around the world, its just how to make it right.

just my 2 cents Pal.

How many bone stock '09 & up CTS-V's have you guys dynoed?
What type of dyno?

chopmeat
04-03-10, 11:25 PM
I hate chickens!

UAEmonster
04-15-10, 09:24 AM
anything will have affect on Air/Fuel and power gains, it will need a tune to get it right and dont end up with broken parts. the stock ECU is capable of adjusting within a percentage, and then it will be off the line. on the Vs, unless the cold air intanke doesnt affect the MAF, then it should be just fine, most of the times, i have seen an affect, but in anyway, the car has already some pulley upgrades where a tune comes to be required.
corsa didnt require at tune at all. you can run and just be fine, and yes it adds power., on the other hands, the headers/x pipe will add more than the corsa by itself.

if you cut the stock air box, it wouldnt Void the warranty?? i bet they will talk trash at the dealer!

Thanks for ur info. bro, i got it ...
and yeah as they told me down hear in the dealer that changing CAI with cat-back is just fine ..!! i dont know .., they just know nothing man.



thats one example of a serious mistake in the setup. assure you that he did some serious replacments and didnt even bother by a tune, or just had a bad tune.

i have seen some customers running many mods with some/without tunes and their WOT is 14:1 A/F, you tell me if this is OK!

from my experience, we have done to date 11 Vs down here at the shop, not so many arround, but mostly everyone you see here in town and they are around here in the forum too. all of them made between 555-585 rwhp on the dyno with all bolt on stuff, and have been runing great since then. so its not an issue of that you run 550rwhp and you end up like that fellow at the dealer. if that is the case, no one will even touch the cars.

there are so many success in the Vs all around the world, its just how to make it right.

just my 2 cents Pal.


I c .., i know that u r the best and the only one that i can trust in these matters and professional things :) , that's y am always asking u bro..

and bolt on stuff like what u mean ??

thanks again bro

UAEmonster
04-15-10, 09:43 AM
I hate chickens!

well, .. we r not talking about people like u in here (tough guy) , this is a concern to anyone thinks with his mind and care for his car , not just like an idiot trying to mod. and do things without even thinking just like animals !

If wana go for heavy mods. i can do it easily but people have minds , they think step by step about what they'r going to do , and how they wana do it , and this is all about how to care for the car u like

be safe loooser
:)

UAEmonster
04-15-10, 09:44 AM
Sorry for the late reply guys , been busy recently

Umrswimr
04-16-10, 12:25 PM
If you go to most dealers with a cut factory air box, you are asking for trouble.
If you go to most dealers with oily K & N in there, or any one of the other brands that are oil impregnated type filters, then you are asking for trouble. There is just no reason to chance voiding any portion of your warranty on something so simple to change back to factory specs. But an extra factory air box & put it on for trips to the dealer. Same for a factory air filter. I am not saying to cheat Gm on the warranty, but I am inclined to believe that if you ever go to the dealers for warranty work, even if it wasn't due to you sporting a K & N air filter and a cut box, you will get blamed for it anyway probably.
A little risk assessment will probably go a long way towards saving your warranty.
The dealer has to prove that the modification directly caused the damage, thus the warranty is not valid. I find it hard to believe that anyone could argue that a CAI is warranty-voiding.

Gary Wells
04-16-10, 12:50 PM
The dealer has to prove that the modification directly caused the damage, thus the warranty is not valid. I find it hard to believe that anyone could argue that a CAI is warranty-voiding.
Depends upon what the warranty claim is for involving the CAI.
Depends upon whether the CAI kit contains a oil impregnated filter, whether the warranty claim is for the MAF, and whether the dealer advises Engineering that the wires on the MAF appear to have oil on them. If the response is yes, yes, & yes, then the warranty claim will probably be denied. I believe there have already been 1 or 2 documented cases on this forum, and several on corvette forum also, I believe. So in reality, it boils down to whether the car owner cleaned & re-oiled the filter himself. It seems to be the general consensus on here and on corvette forum that it is best to go to the dealers with a stock filter & filter housing. Now, I am not really recommending trying to fraud GM out of their money. Throw down your money and take your chances. I personally believe that honesty and integrity are always the best policy.

Vrocks
04-16-10, 01:04 PM
Am looking for the safest mods. for our car where u don't need programming (( without programming ))to keep the warranty ??

and what can be the gains for these mods. ?

am thinking of corsa with x-pipe and D3 air intake - what do u think guys?
coz i heared that with corsa's u might get some power loss !!!! so u'd be better with them !! is that true ?!?!!

Thanks in advance
The 9" pulley can be run on the stock tune. Its just a little agressive on the timing but the AF ratio is excellent (atleast it is on mine).

Adding an aftermarket heat exchanger and 160 Tstat will help (especially with the 9" pulley), as long as you're rolling down the road / highway. If you stop, the temp will go up to stock levels (because the fans arent programmed to turn on sooner) - obviously itll go back down once you're moving again.

A CAI won't add much without other mods.

UAEmonster
04-16-10, 07:43 PM
The 9" pulley can be run on the stock tune. Its just a little agressive on the timing but the AF ratio is excellent (atleast it is on mine).

Adding an aftermarket heat exchanger and 160 Tstat will help (especially with the 9" pulley), as long as you're rolling down the road / highway. If you stop, the temp will go up to stock levels (because the fans arent programmed to turn on sooner) - obviously itll go back down once you're moving again.

A CAI won't add much without other mods.

I c .., got it , but pully better be with a tune as everyone told me.

thanks for ur info bro.

Vrocks
04-16-10, 10:46 PM
I c .., got it , but pully better be with a tune as everyone told me.

thanks for ur info bro.

LPE and Wait4Me told me it's OK to run the 9" on a stock ECM. I've been doing it but I only run 93 octane fuel.

When it was on the dyno the tech said he'd like to pull a degree of timing but that the car should be fine (no knock was detected). The AF ratio was at 11.4 :1 when we did a pull after letting the car cool down (around 160F), and around 10.5:1 when the car was hot (around 210F).

If you want to get a small boost and don't want to worry about any detonation, the 8.5" will help.

2manycars
04-18-10, 10:17 AM
LPE and Wait4Me told me it's OK to run the 9" on a stock ECM. I've been doing it but I only run 93 octane fuel.

When it was on the dyno the tech said he'd like to pull a degree of timing but that the car should be fine (no knock was detected). The AF ratio was at 11.4 :1 when we did a pull after letting the car cool down (around 160F), and around 10.5:1 when the car was hot (around 210F).

If you want to get a small boost and don't want to worry about any detonation, the 8.5" will help.

Cool!

So in reading the whole thread, it sounds like the 9" pully is really the best mod for the most gain with the stock tune.

Vrocks - how much Hp and Tq did you gain with the pulley upgrade?

Vrocks
04-18-10, 04:38 PM
Cool!

So in reading the whole thread, it sounds like the 9" pully is really the best mod for the most gain with the stock tune.

Vrocks - how much Hp and Tq did you gain with the pulley upgrade?
I just looked at my dyno graph and it was 500.1 RWHP and 524 ft-lbs. I never did a stock pull but I think that's around 30 more at the wheels than a stock auto (the pull was done on a dynojet).

Gary Wells
04-18-10, 08:06 PM
About 452 RWHP & 450 RWTQ is what I show for an average from 18 readings throughout the country on a dynojet. Lowest reading was / is 429 RWHP and the highest is 474 RWHP. RWTQ readings very similar. Seems to me that you might have done somewhere between pretty good to darn good for your changes without a tune.

Vrocks
04-18-10, 09:05 PM
About 452 RWHP & 450 RWTQ is what I show for an average from 18 readings throughout the country on a dynojet. Lowest reading was / is 429 RWHP and the highest is 474 RWHP. RWTQ readings very similar. Seems to me that you might have done somewhere between pretty good to darn good for your changes without a tune.
I spoke with Jesse before the pull and he said the main tweak for a 9" pulley was to pull a degree of timing. I don't remember what he said could be done to the TCM to produce higher numbers. I'll take a picture of the dyno graph and post it (either tonight or tomorrow). The torque curve was very flat and I think max boost was around 11.24lbs.

Gary Wells
04-18-10, 09:25 PM
Cad bone stock RWHP & RWTQ (Auto) (Dynojet):

rwhp---rwtq----loss -----locale-----owner----------date--------------dyno

429-----423-----22.9%-----ind-------wait4me--------12-10-08--------Dynojet
429-----430-----22.9%-----kali------garywells--------09-26-09--------Dynojet
436-----432-----21.6%-----uae------tagzo-------------12-17-09--------Dynojet
438-----432-----21.2%-----ohio-----drbuzz-----------??-??-09---------Dynojet
440-----427-----20.9%-----kali------cts-v-twin-------02-19-10--------Dynojet
442-----442-----20.5%-----kali------katmcrat--------07-20-09--------Dynojet
444-----442-----20.1%-----fla-------veelocity---------03-18-10--------Dynojet
447-----450-----19.6%-----il---------prof--------------04-03-10--------Dynojet
454-----453-----18.4%-----????-----mafungu---------05-03-09--------Dynojet
457-----459-----17.8%-----flor------lowet------------10-07-09--------Dynojet
459-----459-----17.5%-----txs------nineball--------- 12-07-09--------Dynojet
459-----462-----17.5%-----ariz-----mike09v---------01-27-10--------Dynojet
460-----461-----17.2%-----nc-------heintzrac--------02-18-10--------Dynojet
463-----461-----16.7%-----ne-------intrvnton302----04-16-10--------Dynojet
465-----445-----16.4%-----txs------richeic77--------01-26-10--------Dynojet
466-----463-----16.2%-----nc-------heintzrac-------03-18-10--------Dynojet
471-----475-----15.3%-----txs------davegolder-----01-07-09--------Dynojet
474-----481-----14.7%-----txs------jcampbell-------02-22-10--------Dynojet

Auto bone stock RWHP & RWTQ (Dynojet only) 18 samples:
RWHP Average: 8133/18= 451.83 average
RWTQ Average: 8097/18= 449.83 average