: 398lb torque from 4.5L



stoveguyy
03-05-10, 04:26 PM
is torque dependent on engine displacement for the most part? i know the northstar makes about 300lb torque from 4.6L. i see the new ferrari supercar makes 398lbs from 4.5L. but thats at about 6000rpm. thats non-blown also. must have VVT going on.

Stingroo
03-05-10, 04:49 PM
That Ferrari is also probably mid-engined, so it has very little drivetrain loss, giving it more usable torque.

Then again, those numbers are probably measured with just the engine + accessories anyway, so my point is moot.

lol.

V-Eight
03-05-10, 04:50 PM
Yeah, torque measurements come from the output shaft not the wheels.

Stingroo
03-05-10, 05:01 PM
Yeah, I realized that we were talking about a production car right after I clicked submit.

Fail post of the day.

caddydaddy
03-05-10, 06:54 PM
Yeah, torque measurements come from the output shaft not the wheels.

You can measure HP and torque on a chassis dyno.

caddydaddy
03-05-10, 06:57 PM
is torque dependent on engine displacement for the most part? i know the northstar makes about 300lb torque from 4.6L. i see the new ferrari supercar makes 398lbs from 4.5L. but thats at about 6000rpm. thats non-blown also. must have VVT going on.

Most likely it's higher compression, better flowing cylinder heads, intake and exhaust system, along with higher valve lift and much more overlap. That's why they get 12 MPG, but make 600 HP!

V-Eight
03-05-10, 10:31 PM
You can measure HP and torque on a chassis dyno.

Yes, but that still gives you the value without the multiplication from the trans and diff.

caddydaddy
03-05-10, 10:48 PM
What you put down to the road is what matters anyways!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-06-10, 07:08 AM
Well let's see here....

The Northstar was designed in the early '90s, and was never really updated much since then.
The Ferrari's 4.5L V8 was designed last year....

One is a rather "high performance" engine designed for mainstream usage in luxury cars.
The other is an extremely high performance engine built by one of the most prominent automakers with heavy influence from their race cars.

stoveguyy
03-06-10, 12:28 PM
brother bought a new infiniti G37. that makes 325hp/265tq. thats from a 3.7L motor. so it beats the northstar for hp and is lacking a bit in torque but that goes right back to my point about torque and displacement.

caddydaddy
03-06-10, 12:37 PM
brother bought a new infiniti G37. that makes 325hp/265tq. thats from a 3.7L motor. so it beats the northstar for hp and is lacking a bit in torque but that goes right back to my point about torque and displacement.

Yes, in general a larger engine will have more torque. But like I said earlier, it's more about how the engine is built with cams, ports, compression that makes the power.
A same displacement non-turbo diesel will have less HP than a gas engine, but have much more torque due to the higher compression and longer stroke!

Aron9000
03-06-10, 01:25 PM
That Ferrari engine is a total screamer. 570hp, 398lb-ft tq, redline is at 9000rpm:bonkers:

That motor was designed to live in that 4000-9000rpm range, where it makes most of its power. The Z06 Corvette's LS7 motor isn't the screamer like Ferrari's DOCH masterpiece. Its 7.0 liters, 505hp, 475lb-ft tq. Even though it is 65hp short of Ferrari's motor, the pushrod design and large displacement make a lot more torque.

Unlike the Ferrari, you don't have to rev it to the moon to really get the power out of it. That's why I love GM's LS series v8's. Pulls like a train all the way from idle to redline. Plus they are simple, reliable, and easy to maintain.

All that being said, I'd much rather have the Ferrari V8 if cost was no object. But in a heavy car I'd drive every day, no doubt the LS7 is a better motor.

stoveguyy
03-06-10, 10:43 PM
would i like a ferrari or Z06? i will never own either. not in my price range. now a cts-v is something i would like. maybe find a 3-4 yr old model.

Stingroo
03-06-10, 10:49 PM
Z06 and CTS-V are pretty much in the same price bracket though.

I'd take the 'Vette. :)

V-Eight
03-06-10, 11:02 PM
Yeah, but for most people a Z06 isn't a practical DD.

Stingroo
03-06-10, 11:11 PM
Well, I pity da fools. Get back on MW2.

caddydaddy
03-06-10, 11:22 PM
Yeah, but for most people a Z06 isn't a practical DD.

Yeah, I have a kid....so I need a rear seat! :thumbsup:

Stingroo
03-06-10, 11:24 PM
Pfft... that's why they invented the rear hatch!

Vesicant
03-07-10, 02:28 AM
Direct injection. Computer designed and virtual flow tested cylinder heads. Variable valve timing, lift, duration and variable intake geometry. High compression. Titanium valvetrain parts. Low rotating mass. Efficient rod to stroke ratio. (no pun intended)

All sorts of advanced goodies learned from racing.

Its amazing.

ben.gators
03-07-10, 02:41 AM
Z06 and CTS-V are pretty much in the same price bracket though.

I'd take the 'Vette. :)

Yeah exactly, and this is the mistake that Cadi is doing! the prices are getting so high that it reaches to the prices of luxury high performance cars like Pursche, or z06! We also have had a long discussion about this matter in another topic which was about the price of a new high end Cadi. Cadi must control the prices...
Spending about 70-80K, I prefer to buy a luxury high performance car, instead of a cady. The exceptions can be the cases that costumer may look for more space inside the car for family, or Porsche or z06 is too sporty for him...

Stingroo
03-07-10, 03:29 AM
Z06 isn't luxury at ALL. CTS-V IS a luxury performance sedan. That's what they're aiming at, and targeting, and selling.

ben.gators
03-07-10, 04:15 AM
Z06 isn't luxury at ALL. CTS-V IS a luxury performance sedan. That's what they're aiming at, and targeting, and selling.

This is again a problem of terminology. Buick Lacrosse 2010, Cadi V, and Porsche are all luxury high performance cars. But they all are in different levels and price range.

In my previous post, by luxury high performance cars I meant top high tech cars like Porsche, as I used the appropriate example to indicate my meaning. Porsche is at least one level higher than Cadi, and Cadi's recent price tags for V series is touching and overlapping the price range of cars like Porsche or corvette which is not good at all!

Stingroo
03-07-10, 04:20 AM
None of those three cars are the same type of vehicle.

A Lacrosse is a mid-level luxury car, competes with Lexus/Audi (minus performance).

A CTS-V is a top-tier luxury performance car. It competes with BMW/Mercedes Benz etc.

A Porsche is a sports car. It would compete with Corvettes/Ferrari/Lamborghini. But the Corvette is cheaper than its competitors, so it offers bang-for-your-buck performance.

They can overlap in price because they compete in different segments of the market. People who shop for a Lacrosse generally won't be looking at a Corvette, for example.

ben.gators
03-07-10, 04:39 AM
N

A Porsche is a sports car. It would compete with Corvettes/Ferrari/Lamborghini. But the Corvette is cheaper than its competitors, so it offers bang-for-your-buck performance.

Porsche is a luxury high performance car!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche




They can overlap in price because they compete in different segments of the market. People who shop for a Lacrosse generally won't be looking at a Corvette, for example.

Yes, they are in different segments of market, HOWEVER Each segment of market has its own level and range of price based on common sense. A compact car must be cheaper than a full size car, an economy gas saver car must be cheaper than a high performance car, a fleet sedan should be cheaper than a luxury car, and this is totally rational to expect cars in each category to remain in their own price range. Also I refer you to your own post:


Z06 and CTS-V are pretty much in the same price bracket though.

I'd take the 'Vette. :)

Florian
03-08-10, 02:56 PM
is torque dependent on engine displacement for the most part? i know the northstar makes about 300lb torque from 4.6L. i see the new ferrari supercar makes 398lbs from 4.5L. but thats at about 6000rpm. thats non-blown also. must have VVT going on.

STSV makes 440 lbs/ft w/4.4L


F

Florian
03-08-10, 02:58 PM
A CTS-V is a top-tier luxury performance car. It competes with BMW/Mercedes Benz etc.




were gonna have to agree to disagree here...CTSv is hardly top-tier....its not even top tier in the Caddy lineup.


F

caddydaddy
03-08-10, 05:16 PM
STSV makes 440 lbs/ft w/4.4L


F

It's also supercharged, so it doesn't count. We're talking about N/A engines. :thepan: