: Andy Mages and ADM Performance underpromise and overdeliver.



johncurrancampbell
03-03-10, 08:51 PM
Whats up? I have posted before on my upcoming build with ADM performance and the build is now complete The build is featured on their website with most of the pertinent info. Holy smokes, 650BHP thru stock airbox and mufflers to boot. Things not listed that may be of interest to some include:
GT11 LPE cam, specs something like .631/.644 lift 118 LSA, The heads are stage 2 LSA heads with the "swirl" bar left in place unlike other builds where it is either removed during porting or discounted completely with L92 heads. Stock airbox mod. No full CAI! Boost is in line with others runnig the 2.55" upper and 8.5" lower pulleys @12-13psi. what else?-- that seems to be all the pertinent info I can think of right now. These LSA engines are awesome.
Hope this give you all a slightly different perspective to the possibilities of this machine. Before some of the haters( I hate that term) come out, know that Patrick, the owner of Quality Motorsports achieved 435BHP and 423TQ on this same dyno.. Peace out.....

CadV
03-03-10, 11:32 PM
No hating man, us Texas boys gotta back each other up :).

Good to see more facts coming out that 2.55 upper and 8.5 lower gives 12-13psi. Wait4me keeps claiming 15 but it ain't true.

johncurrancampbell
03-04-10, 08:42 AM
CadV do you know where the measurement for the lower pulley comes from? ie is the diameter measure from the inside of the ring where the pulley sits on or the outer lip of the pulley threads. The LPE lower pulley I measured with a tape and the inside diameter is 8.5" the outside 9"? I figure it is an 8.5" lower dampner. Thanks

Umrswimr
03-04-10, 08:47 AM
Whats up? I have posted before on my upcoming build with ADM performance and the build is now complete The build is featured on their website with most of the pertinent info. Holy smokes, 650BHP thru stock airbox and mufflers to boot. Things not listed that may be of interest to some include:
GT11 LPE cam, specs something like .631/.644 lift 118 LSA, The heads are stage 2 LSA heads with the "swirl" bar left in place unlike other builds where it is either removed during porting or discounted completely with L92 heads. Stock airbox mod. No full CAI! Boost is in line with others runnig the 2.55" upper and 8.5" lower pulleys @12-13psi. what else?-- that seems to be all the pertinent info I can think of right now. These LSA engines are awesome.
Hope this give you all a slightly different perspective to the possibilities of this machine. Before some of the haters( I hate that term) come out, know that Patrick, the owner of Quality Motorsports achieved 435BHP and 423TQ on this same dyno.. Peace out.....
Does QMS have a dyno?

musclesbmf
03-04-10, 09:37 AM
I'm assuming you are referring to RWHP?

Mark

Nine Ball
03-04-10, 12:42 PM
Does your stock airbox still have the stock elbow, or was that replaced? I know about chopping the lower box, just wondering if this factory elbow hurts any.

CadV
03-04-10, 01:13 PM
CadV do you know where the measurement for the lower pulley comes from? ie is the diameter measure from the inside of the ring where the pulley sits on or the outer lip of the pulley threads. The LPE lower pulley I measured with a tape and the inside diameter is 8.5" the outside 9"? I figure it is an 8.5" lower dampner. Thanks

I think LPE claims it is a 9" ring due to the OD being 9. A friend of mine bought the same one and I think he concluded it was a 8.75.

CadV
03-04-10, 01:14 PM
Does your stock airbox still have the stock elbow, or was that replaced? I know about chopping the lower box, just wondering if this factory elbow hurts any.

Few friends testing this said it makes no difference. They were putting down around 600rwhp.

johncurrancampbell
03-04-10, 02:42 PM
I'm assuming you are referring to RWHP?

Mark

Yes Mark you are correct it is RWHP:cloud9: Thanks for the advice about fear of overspinning the supercharger impellers with this aggressive a pulley setup. It does not seem to loose too much on the top end with this setup.

johncurrancampbell
03-04-10, 02:46 PM
Does your stock airbox still have the stock elbow, or was that replaced? I know about chopping the lower box, just wondering if this factory elbow hurts any.

Sorry Nine ball I do not know the answer to that question. I do know that Andy is readily available for questions his number is on the ADM performance website where the stage 3 build is featured. I have some more detailed info on A/F ratios, videos etc. that I will post when I get it.

johncurrancampbell
03-04-10, 02:50 PM
Does QMS have a dyno?

I am not sure. I know Patrick and Andy are close friends that worked together at 21st century and seem to collaborate on this and that, but sorry just don;t know.

CTSV4now
03-04-10, 03:13 PM
I thought the stock air intake system collapses under increased boost, hence the need for a partial CAI? Is this just another urban legend?

CadV
03-04-10, 05:17 PM
I thought the stock air intake system collapses under increased boost, hence the need for a partial CAI? Is this just another urban legend?

Created by shops trying to sell stuff. It does not collapse. The only thing that will collapse is a unmodded stock box at around 600rwhp.

OKC_CTSV
03-04-10, 05:45 PM
What did the package run you for installation and everything? Ballpark figure?

johncurrancampbell
03-04-10, 10:04 PM
What did the package run you for installation and everything? Ballpark figure?

Ballpark $8500 and worth every penny. There is a video of the car on youtube running 20-160mph in 17 seconds. I apologize for not providing the link, but it can be viewed at youtube search for ADM BUILT and it is probably the first video. Lame, I know eventually I may get this rudimentary computer thing down:cookoo:

cbloveday
03-04-10, 10:25 PM
Here you go

http://www.youtube.com/user/ADMBUILT

johncurrancampbell
03-04-10, 11:01 PM
Here you go

http://www.youtube.com/user/ADMBUILT

Thank you kindly

Umrswimr
03-05-10, 07:59 AM
Is there a reason you chose those mods and did not include CAI, headers, or exhaust? Not flaming, just curious...

Looks like thier shop is pretty close- may have to stop by...

wait4me
03-05-10, 08:18 AM
He does have a cold air kit on his car. IT WILL SHUT THE TUBE when you floor it if you dont. It isnt to sell more kits.. That is rediculous. I have posted SEVERAL times that a full one isnt needed as much, and you just need to replace that tubing. That is why i only offered a partial cold air kit for a long time, and only made the full one because tons of people wanted one. . The Tube does shut, i have videos of it doing it when you punch the pedal. More so when the vehicles engine compartment is hot. Look in the vid, you will see the tube is replaced.

The boost he is seeing and why it is lower is because he has a MASSIVE cam for that engine and the heads are modifed. THAT IS WHY IT IS AT 13 psi. If it wasnt a heads cam car it would be higher.
CTSV i have no idea why you think there is something im gaining from saying this. It is just fact that i have seen on 60+ cars in person, If it didnt do it for you, then i have no idea why unless you came to my shop, which i offered in the past for free, and i would figure out why your car didnt make the boost everyone else is getting....

JUST a 2.55 upper gets you past the boost you where seeing on everyone elses car if the car is stock.

Sorry to cut in this thread, Those numbers seem right in line what what it should do. The cam in the car is the key. With close to the same combo, except i get rid of the swirl port in my heads, and ran a MUCH smaller camshaft, i usually see 610-620 rwhp with barely a noticeable idle at the shop.. With the larger camshaft as run from Andy, it would see that 40hp gain. LSA heads LOVE lift and respond to it VERY well. They also like a higher exhaust duration on the cam. a 15 to 30 degree split seems the best. Most people though just want a smooth idle, and that gets harder to maintain as you go up in lift and duration.

cbloveday
03-05-10, 09:14 AM
No hating man, us Texas boys gotta back each other up :).

Good to see more facts coming out that 2.55 upper and 8.5 lower gives 12-13psi. Wait4me keeps claiming 15 but it ain't true.


Not a hater by any means, but look at my sig. My mods by wait4me were
$7,400 out the door including the handheld and I am definately running 14Lbs of boost max witht he 2.55 SC pulley and a 8.5 lower pulley.

For the area, I would recommend LPE & Waitme performance. I got 625 rwhp on a mustang dyno. I am sure a dynojet would be even higher. Perhaps as much as 687rwhp. :yup:
Regrdless, I am happy and I know you are too! Enjoy

Umrswimr
03-05-10, 09:16 AM
He does have a cold air kit on his car. IT WILL SHUT THE TUBE when you floor it if you dont. It isnt to sell more kits.. That is rediculous. I have posted SEVERAL times that a full one isnt needed as much, and you just need to replace that tubing. That is why i only offered a partial cold air kit for a long time, and only made the full one because tons of people wanted one. . The Tube does shut, i have videos of it doing it when you punch the pedal. More so when the vehicles engine compartment is hot. Look in the vid, you will see the tube is replaced.

The boost he is seeing and why it is lower is because he has a MASSIVE cam for that engine and the heads are modifed. THAT IS WHY IT IS AT 13 psi. If it wasnt a heads cam car it would be higher.
CTSV i have no idea why you think there is something im gaining from saying this. It is just fact that i have seen on 60+ cars in person, If it didnt do it for you, then i have no idea why unless you came to my shop, which i offered in the past for free, and i would figure out why your car didnt make the boost everyone else is getting....

JUST a 2.55 upper gets you past the boost you where seeing on everyone elses car if the car is stock.

Sorry to cut in this thread, Those numbers seem right in line what what it should do. The cam in the car is the key. With close to the same combo, except i get rid of the swirl port in my heads, and ran a MUCH smaller camshaft, i usually see 610-620 rwhp with barely a noticeable idle at the shop.. With the larger camshaft as run from Andy, it would see that 40hp gain. LSA heads LOVE lift and respond to it VERY well. They also like a higher exhaust duration on the cam. a 15 to 30 degree split seems the best. Most people though just want a smooth idle, and that gets harder to maintain as you go up in lift and duration.
W4M-

I'm new to CTS-V land, so maybe the terminology is different here. I generally refer to a CAI as a full replacement for the stock airbox/bridge so that it pulls cold air from outside the vehicle. The OP indicated a stock airbox, hence my question. Nomenclature aside- is there a reason the airbox is stock?

Swim

wait4me
03-05-10, 10:42 AM
As i posted in dynosheets showing gains on parts, the full cold air vs partial was only around 6hp difference. Some people want the cars to look more like stock, others want to see different looking things under the hood. You have a modified air box, he had to cut off the bottom of it to allow more flow, and you are using what i call the partial cold air kit, it is a hump hose, k&n filter, Solid metal 4 inch tube, and fittings.


Curtis, your car was definatly making that psi of boost, it was less before porting the snout that needed to be done and the throttlebody. It gained intake psi by cleaning the entrance to the supercharger to allow more air to get in easier.

After a point in rotor rpm, the air starts having a hard time getting into the front rotor pack. Causing a "cutting" of the air. Freeing up that area allows that "Cutting" to happen at a much higher point. That is why you see a 40ft of torque gain from doing the inlet correctly on the snout at higher Rotor speeds.

johncurrancampbell
03-05-10, 11:32 AM
Not a hater by any means, but look at my sig. My mods by wait4me were
$7,400 out the door including the handheld and I am definately running 14Lbs of boost max witht he 2.55 SC pulley and a 8.5 lower pulley.

For the area, I would recommend LPE & Waitme performance. I got 625 rwhp on a mustang dyno. I am sure a dynojet would be even higher. Perhaps as much as 687rwhp. :yup:
Regrdless, I am happy and I know you are too! Enjoy

Yes very happy. Now we'll see whose car goes "boom" first.. just kidding I think with some common sense they will last awhile. Sometime if you get the chance measure your 60-160 time and add about 3.2sec (0-60) and that will give you a 0-160mph time of close to 15 seconds I bet. From the video at ADM I used this method to arrive at a 0-160 time. 12sec (60-160) + 3.2sec (0-60) for 15.2 seconds. That sounds too good to be true if I had'nt seen it with me own eyes. I wonder if the acceleration is faster on the dyno ( less friction) than a flat road. What do you think about this reasoning?

wait4me
03-05-10, 12:03 PM
Dynos really cant be tested in that way like you are asking John. UNLESS you have 100% valid data to get started from. AND it is a loaded dyno with eddycurrent AND You have done a parasitics test before the test. AND you have the known horsepower used by the car to maintain speeds. Otherwise it just wont be the same as the street. MOST dynos have a 3000lb drum or close to it if there is no load unit. So the car would accellerate like a 3000lb vehicle in theory.

Real street or drag race numbers are the way to go.

johncurrancampbell
03-05-10, 01:27 PM
Dynos really cant be tested in that way like you are asking John. UNLESS you have 100% valid data to get started from. AND it is a loaded dyno with eddycurrent AND You have done a parasitics test before the test. AND you have the known horsepower used by the car to maintain speeds. Otherwise it just wont be the same as the street. MOST dynos have a 3000lb drum or close to it if there is no load unit. So the car would accellerate like a 3000lb vehicle in theory.

Real street or drag race numbers are the way to go.

I knew it was too good to be true LOL:yawn::cheers: In fairness to Jesse, one of the reasons I didnot go the full CAI was partially based on his repeated past comments that the stock airbox mod was sufficient and QUIETER which is the main reason I went that path, not because I am a wise cynic.. Thanks John

johncurrancampbell
03-05-10, 01:34 PM
Not a hater by any means, but look at my sig. My mods by wait4me were
$7,400 out the door including the handheld and I am definately running 14Lbs of boost max witht he 2.55 SC pulley and a 8.5 lower pulley.

For the area, I would recommend LPE & Waitme performance. I got 625 rwhp on a mustang dyno. I am sure a dynojet would be even higher. Perhaps as much as 687rwhp. :yup:
Regrdless, I am happy and I know you are too! Enjoy

I have had 2 builds previously with LPE dallas (21st Century Musclecars) and Andy was the one who did them. I have had no problems with either. When Andy left and opened his own shop, I went with him. I know he is honest and readily available and also close to me. He has never dissappointed me and I would not hesitate for a moment to recommend him As far as I'm concerned nobody knows LS engines like Andy Mages at ADM performance:cheers:

cbloveday
03-05-10, 02:16 PM
I have had 2 builds previously with LPE dallas (21st Century Musclecars) and Andy was the one who did them. I have had no problems with either. When Andy left and opened his own shop, I went with him. I know he is honest and readily available and also close to me. He has never dissappointed me and I would not hesitate for a moment to recommend him As far as I'm concerned nobody knows LS engines like Andy Mages at ADM performance:cheers:

You hit the nail on the head! Make sure whoever touches the car knows what they are doing. Because I am in Chicago, I went with LPE and and Jesse of wait4meperformance. These guys know the LS engines as well and are within my range. Based upon the build info, our cars are very similar.

http://www.admperformance.com/products.php?department=1&category=70&product=197

johncurrancampbell
03-05-10, 04:41 PM
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You hit the nail on the head! Make sure whoever touches the car knows what they are doing. Because I am in Chicago, I went with LPE and and Jesse of wait4meperformance. These guys know the LS engines as well and are within my range. Based upon the build info, our cars are very similar.

http://www.admperformance.com/products.php?department=1&category=70&product=197

Right on:yup: As for the original hater comment that was all kidding you guys have always been classy and civil to each other even thru disagreements unlike most other forums.

Oh and I did not mention Andy also fabricated a custom 3" exhaust connecting the headers to the stock mufflers which did raise the price a little.

09V
03-06-10, 02:13 AM
I have to say that I think your car makes some killer power and I would love to hear an idle clip. I think you have ventured into the Nasty Cam realm, at least for our cars. I think I speak for most of us when I say that we would all love to hear that thing from multiple angles if you get a chance. Thanks 09V

johncurrancampbell
03-06-10, 08:28 AM
I have to say that I think your car makes some killer power and I would love to hear an idle clip. I think you have ventured into the Nasty Cam realm, at least for our cars. I think I speak for most of us when I say that we would all love to hear that thing from multiple angles if you get a chance. Thanks 09V

Absolutely will share all I can with you, but don't even pick up the car until monday. Andy has not yet emailed me the audio. He claims on the highway it is no louder than stock. There are other things I will post such as detailed AF ratios every 100 rpm, part list and the bill. Regards John

cbloveday
03-06-10, 08:48 AM
:: Adm Cts-v Stage 3 Build = 651rwhp & 648rwtq

The ADM Performance team just completed the Stage 3 build on a 2009 Cadillac CTS-V. The ADM Performance Stage 3 package includes LP Upper and Lower Pulley Upgrades, LPE Ported Snout, LPE Camshaft, LPE Ported Throttlebody, K/N Filter w/Airbox Mod, Higher Compression Ported Cylinder Heads, Inconel Exhaust Valves, Dual Valvesprings, Kooks 1 7/8" Headers, Highflow Cats, ADM Custom 3" Exhaust w/Factory Mufflers, the Wait4me Performance Heat Exchanger, 60lb Injectors, and an ADM High Output Custom Tune.

John, Your car will be louder than stock.

johncurrancampbell
03-06-10, 10:45 AM
:: Adm Cts-v Stage 3 Build = 651rwhp & 648rwtq

The ADM Performance team just completed the Stage 3 build on a 2009 Cadillac CTS-V. The ADM Performance Stage 3 package includes LP Upper and Lower Pulley Upgrades, LPE Ported Snout, LPE Camshaft, LPE Ported Throttlebody, K/N Filter w/Airbox Mod, Higher Compression Ported Cylinder Heads, Inconel Exhaust Valves, Dual Valvesprings, Kooks 1 7/8" Headers, Highflow Cats, ADM Custom 3" Exhaust w/Factory Mufflers, the Wait4me Performance Heat Exchanger, 60lb Injectors, and an ADM High Output Custom Tune.

John, Your car will be louder than stock.

Yea it better be :rolleyes: hopefully not a banshee though. Is it manageable or are you somewhere down the line going to consider some sound proofing? I am considering using dynomat or comparable product if it is too loud.

cbloveday
03-06-10, 11:25 AM
No John, It sounds just right. There is a little drone around 2,000 rpm when putzing around. It doesn't bother me in the least. I have a lightly diff exhaust in that I have straight 3" inch exhaust with no cats/resonators right to the mufflers. You'll see come Monday!! :)

glgjr
03-06-10, 08:41 PM
ADM built my car the week before he built John's car. I had Andy put a LS9 camshaft in my car and after hearing John's car on Friday I would definatley would have gone with his camshaft. We built our car to look and sound stock so we can hopefully fool some of the locals and tech inspectors at some of the upcoming events. John's car is very cool and I am glad he does not live in the DFW area. I am sure there will be plenty of video of the car available soon so people can decide for thenselves.

cbloveday
03-06-10, 09:06 PM
I was going for the stock feel as well. I had a choice between more agressive cam and decided gainst it. This is my DD, and it is a cadillac, so I did not want too much vibrtion in the cabin and needed a smooth power delivery. I am very happy with the cam choice. No doubt there re quite few cams to choose from. Jesse and I discussed the use of this car and concluded that this cam would serve the best purpose for my car.

johncurrancampbell
03-08-10, 12:28 PM
ADM built my car the week before he built John's car. I had Andy put a LS9 camshaft in my car and after hearing John's car on Friday I would definatley would have gone with his camshaft. We built our car to look and sound stock so we can hopefully fool some of the locals and tech inspectors at some of the upcoming events. John's car is very cool and I am glad he does not live in the DFW area. I am sure there will be plenty of video of the car available soon so people can decide for thenselves.

Have you had your upraded injectors put in yet?

glgjr
03-08-10, 09:49 PM
John, I think he is going to work on the car tomorrow.
Gene

johncurrancampbell
03-09-10, 08:13 AM
John, I think he is going to work on the car tomorrow.
Gene

I am sure you will be pleased. Good luck on finding traction. I decieded to ge with 20" all around with two sets of rear wheels one with NITTO555R drag radials the other 305/20/35 PS2. I'll see how this set up works first. Hope to see your car in some of those DFW Auto club videos. I would particularly like to see you tangle withthe owner of the M5 with the $40,000+ DINAN 5.7stroker package that likes to pick on stock CTS V s and make fun of them:stirpot: Thanks John

CadV
03-09-10, 10:26 AM
I am sure you will be pleased. Good luck on finding traction. I decieded to ge with 20" all around with two sets of rear wheels one with NITTO555R drag radials the other 305/20/35 PS2. I'll see how this set up works first. Hope to see your car in some of those DFW Auto club videos. I would particularly like to see you tangle withthe owner of the M5 with the $40,000+ DINAN 5.7stroker package that likes to pick on stock CTS V s and make fun of them:stirpot: Thanks John

Hey John,

Gene and I have been planning to make an appearance at the DFW auto club meet. We should all go out together!

Cliff

whisler151
03-09-10, 10:33 AM
Hey John,

Gene and I have been planning to make an appearance at the DFW auto club meet. We should all go out together!

Cliff

I'll take up the rear. Count me in!

johncurrancampbell
03-09-10, 11:42 AM
Hey John,

Gene and I have been planning to make an appearance at the DFW auto club meet. We should all go out together!

Cliff

That would be good. I work a lot of hours but also have a decent bit of vacation.. just depends on my schedule. PM me when you get a date and I will make it if I can. I don't want anypart of that HPF M3 though that thing is putting out over 640hp and 490 tq to the ground from what I have read. I would race from a dig with the drag radials... it would be my only chance.

CadV
03-10-10, 11:55 AM
That would be good. I work a lot of hours but also have a decent bit of vacation.. just depends on my schedule. PM me when you get a date and I will make it if I can. I don't want anypart of that HPF M3 though that thing is putting out over 640hp and 490 tq to the ground from what I have read. I would race from a dig with the drag radials... it would be my only chance.

I thought your car did 650 on Andy's dyno? His dyno usually runs 20 low so your car is like 670. Torque wins races. I think the M3 runs more on race gas but a pump gas race would be cool.

We are getting Gene's car dialed in Sat.

johncurrancampbell
03-11-10, 03:07 PM
I thought your car did 650 on Andy's dyno? His dyno usually runs 20 low so your car is like 670. Torque wins races. I think the M3 runs more on race gas but a pump gas race would be cool.

We are getting Gene's car dialed in Sat.

Cool hope it goes well. I am enjoying the ADM build. The large cam gives up some power on the low end which is perfect because it allows the tires to grip before the big surge. The cam is actually hardly felt when idling or driving. This is a wolf in sheeps clothing because the moment you punch it the whole character changes and it becomes painfully evident to others that this thing has some nuts. So far I have only run a 2007 ZO6 with cai and tune. No contest there I put about 5-6 carlengths on her( ran up to 120). Surprisingly with the cam I am not spinning the stock PS2s as much as I thought. The car really is quiet, barely louder than stock, I put this to the test by taking my mother to town and purposely driving "stealthy" shw did not even notice that the car had been worked on....until the ride home:lildevil::lildevil:

Umrswimr
03-12-10, 08:24 AM
Cool hope it goes well. I am enjoying the ADM build. The large cam gives up some power on the low end which is perfect because it allows the tires to grip before the big surge. The cam is actually hardly felt when idling or driving. This is a wolf in sheeps clothing because the moment you punch it the whole character changes and it becomes painfully evident to others that this thing has some nuts. So far I have only run a 2007 ZO6 with cai and tune. No contest there I put about 5-6 carlengths on her( ran up to 120). Surprisingly with the cam I am not spinning the stock PS2s as much as I thought. The car really is quiet, barely louder than stock, I put this to the test by taking my mother to town and purposely driving "stealthy" shw did not even notice that the car had been worked on....until the ride home:lildevil::lildevil:
$8500 to walk Z06's?

As luck would have it, my bonus next week is just north of $8500. This is so not gonna be good for my marriage. :lol:

johncurrancampbell
03-13-10, 07:42 AM
[QUOTE=Umrswimr;2177338]$8500 to walk Z06's?

As luck would have it, my bonus next week is just north of $8500. This is so not gonna be good for my marriage. : The total bill ended up 10,900. I added some accessories etc. Strong marriages are built on compromise...do you think she will buy that one?...

Umrswimr
03-30-10, 09:28 AM
[QUOTE=Umrswimr;2177338]$8500 to walk Z06's?

As luck would have it, my bonus next week is just north of $8500. This is so not gonna be good for my marriage. : The total bill ended up 10,900. I added some accessories etc. Strong marriages are built on compromise...do you think she will buy that one?...
In fact, she did not. :(

No modifications for me in the near future, it appears. Oh well- I'm off to MSR in two weeks- we'll see what this beast can do!

cbloveday
03-30-10, 09:51 AM
Do not waiver in your efforts and circle back!:sneaky:

09V
03-30-10, 04:09 PM
Always remember it is better to ask for forgiveness rather than for permission!