: Wester's, Northstar Performance, and CHRFAB. Working together for one FAST FWD



97EldoCoupe
03-01-10, 03:31 PM
Great news. Wester's Garage in Alberta Canada cracked the Northstar PCM. 96-99 can now be programmed. I'll be the first to have a full tune done by them on a 1999 STS, black on black. Torque management totally removed, timing advanced, 1st gear lock-out removed, no speed limiter, the works.

This means my '98 can be tuned to match the cams I have in there from CHRFAB. I just spent a bit over 40 minutes on the phone with Allen and he's going to be grinding a custom set for me soon.

The power packages I have planned are looking very promising now, and so is supercharging. This is good because I have 220 new engines to build up either in stock form or modified for performance.

Once work is done for the day I'll be responding with some more info on this. Lyndon gave me the permission to post this. Lyndon Wester has done a wonderful thing for all of us Caddy owners and we owe him a big show of gratitude for his efforts and determination.

The first Caddy tune will be on a factory cammed- black on black 99 STS.

STSS
03-01-10, 03:41 PM
I am trying to keep from getting my hopes up.... Hope this is as good as it sounds.... Can't wait to see what it can run with a "tuned" pcm.

00-04 next?

97EldoCoupe
03-01-10, 03:57 PM
Yeah they're still working on cracking the 00-04s. I wasn't going to say anything until I was sure that they were totally sure. I spoke to Lyndon last week and again today- everything is TRUE. Wester's has a good reputation.

I can't wait to get that PCM back and see what this STS will do. I'll be posting videos and as much information as I can. Too bad the local track isn't open yet. Maybe I can get them to open it for a few runs.

STSS
03-01-10, 04:37 PM
I've got butterflies......

97EldoCoupe
03-01-10, 04:58 PM
I smell burnt rubber...

Submariner409
03-01-10, 05:04 PM
Based on our previous conversation you seem to have covered a lot of ground in a hurry..........:sneaky:

Looks like I go to Cecil Dragway come April and get a set of baseline timeslips............

97EldoCoupe
03-01-10, 05:41 PM
Yes Sub it was only a matter of time before this information was going to be released and Lyndon gave me the go ahead. We have a lot of stuff to do now. The cat's out of the bag.

Sub you're in line for a tune. I'll keep in close contact with Lyndon and I'll be calling you the minute I hear anything.

eyekandyboats.inc
03-01-10, 05:54 PM
:osnap::fan::woohoo:

ponyboyt
03-01-10, 10:30 PM
wow this is good timing for me woohoo! more details please :)

Edit:

This is very exciting... i just had a big rush of motivation. So much i want to do with this car now. Will you be flashing at your shop? You mentioned supercharger, I have a couple turbos i've been sitting on from 90's chev diesels... Me and Brandon were talkin about putting one on a 4.9 .. would it be realistic now to put on on my 99?

codewize
03-01-10, 10:32 PM
I thought the pre 2000 was cracked about 2 years ago? Where's the news here?

Ranger
03-01-10, 10:39 PM
Just out of curiosity, what's the cost?

97EldoCoupe
03-01-10, 11:23 PM
Code - to my knowledge nobody has been able to change all the parameters in the PCM until now. I know people were experimenting, I know some things have been cracked, but now, according to the info I got from Lyndon, all 96-99 PCMs can be tuned and anyone with around $500 can have this done. He wants me to test this on my '99 and get some results back to him.

I know certain things have been done before by other forum members but to be able to remove 1st gear lock out, advance the timing, change shift firmness, change idle speed, rev limits; well as Lyndon said there's basically nothing in there he can't change or play with.

2000-04 is in the works and that is GREAT news.

97EldoCoupe
03-01-10, 11:28 PM
I can't wait to get my '98's PCM tuned to match the cams I installed. I removed the cat on that car, the exhaust is blowing out of the Y pipe right now. It sounds like a drag car. I've got to post that video soon as I find that darn USB cable.

STSS
03-02-10, 10:27 AM
the exhaust is blowing out of the Y pipe right now. It sounds like a drag car.

After I put a new engine in my 01, I drove around with just the Y pipe hooked up for about 30 mins, GF thought it was great.....

:cloud9:Oh to be ten again....:cloud9:

Hogg
03-02-10, 10:55 AM
Wester's Garage lists the 1996-2003 4.6 Northstar tuning at $495 on their website. It's been listed for a couple months now.
You must ship your PCM to their shop.

Sounds fun Jake.


peace
Hog

97EldoCoupe
03-02-10, 08:33 PM
They can't do much to the 00-03 PCMs yet. 96-99 is covered. It may have been listed for a while but Lyndon told me very clearly that it was just recent that they managed to crack the whole PCM for the 96-99 years. I believe they can only do very basic stuff currently on the 00+ PCMs.

Submariner409
03-02-10, 09:14 PM
Everybody, Just sit back and watch the work develop. Stuff like this takes time and study, and when the fix is in for the 2000+ vehicles we'll all know. The last 2003/4 PCM rolled off the line in 12/03, 6.3 years ago. Rome wasn't built in a day, so give it all time to get done and proved out.

(.....and FAST FWD is all relative. Your Seville/Deville/Eldorado will NEVER equal Don Garlits, so hang up your hopes, right now. )

Rocket88
03-02-10, 09:33 PM
Lets not forget that they have the GXP loooked after too.... :)

97EldoCoupe
03-03-10, 01:48 PM
FWD has its limits, no doubt. But they can be improved upon quite a bit. Not from take-off, but once you're up to a certain speed where wheelspin isn't too much of an issue, well, more power to the wheels.....

ponyboyt
03-03-10, 03:23 PM
sure there is a max but... you can still improve... i went from 225/60/16 to 235/60/16 (not by choice, cant beat new goodyears on 2000 STS rims for 160 bucks, so i did not have a choice) and there is a difference in take off traction obviously.

Reading around i dug up some old write-ups a while ago from the late 90s how guys were shaving 1 second off these cars doing DIY mods.... interesting stuff, some of it today people say doesn't make a difference in performance :lies:

Jailtime
03-03-10, 03:38 PM
Is the PCM tune good to go for the 96-99 SLS also? How well is the tranny going to hold up against all the new power? I wanna see that video!

Submariner409
03-03-10, 06:06 PM
"All the new power" will be less than 20-25 hp from a PCM tune only. The 4T80E will absorb lots of power, properly applied.

Unfortunately CORSA does not make a cat-back for pre-2000 Sevilles, but you can get parts from them. The single best mod for a Northstar platform is a good, mandrel bent exhaust system. That alone is good for 10 - 15 hp at redline. Coupled with a Wester's PCM job you'll wind up with about +20 - 30 hp. For the VIN 9 package that's 10%.

Post dyno slips before and after. Guesses don't count in engine work.

codewize
03-03-10, 10:25 PM
Sub, I think I'm the only one here with dyno slips. I put down 235.54 HP with the car stock.

Because of expense and problematic dyno runs I've never gone back. These cars do NOT like the dyno at all.

Rocket88
03-03-10, 10:34 PM
Well, I'll try to get some before and after runs in. Should be interesting to see what happens.

Hogg
03-03-10, 11:22 PM
I can attest for Wester's Garage doing excellent work.
I did some PCM testing for Lyndon last Summer.
Bottom line, you guys will like the results.

peace
Hog

Jailtime
03-04-10, 02:30 AM
"All the new power" will be less than 20-25 hp from a PCM tune only. The 4T80E will absorb lots of power, properly applied.

Unfortunately CORSA does not make a cat-back for pre-2000 Sevilles, but you can get parts from them. The single best mod for a Northstar platform is a good, mandrel bent exhaust system. That alone is good for 10 - 15 hp at redline. Coupled with a Wester's PCM job you'll wind up with about +20 - 30 hp. For the VIN 9 package that's 10%.

Post dyno slips before and after. Guesses don't count in engine work.

I was thinking more along the lines of the whole package, PCM tune, exhaust, and cams. Still sounds like the 4T80E would take it. Thanks for the info!

Submariner409
03-04-10, 08:51 AM
You're going to need to do a top overhaul if you go to cams/tune. A 1996's weak point is the head bolts, so budget in a set of Jake's studs and a thorough cleanup and gasket job. You WILL find worn timing chain slippers and tensioner shoes as well as cam followers, so prepare for more than just a few nuts and bolts. :yup:

Get yourself a real Helm/GM factory Service Manual from either www.helminc.com or off eBay. You're going to need the repair procedures and torque settings at the very least.

From your last post (Cams, exhaust, tune) at the cheapest, doing good work, you're now looking at $4,500 +/-.

ponyboyt
03-04-10, 09:43 AM
From your last post (Cams, exhaust, tune) at the cheapest, doing good work, you're now looking at $4,500 +/-.

This is the real answer im looking for. Cams, studs, seals, R&R. I have a price in my head. Wondering how close i am heh. If these 3 companies, CHRFAB, Westers, NorthstarPerformance, are working together will there be a discount? If cams are 1000, a rebuild 2200, and PCM 450.. thats thats 3650. Add worn parts. How much, if any, of that 3650 can be discounted?

Im sure when the ball starts rolling we will get these answers. But right now its probably a bit of a scramble. They want the market, and now that the PCM tune can be done, other people will dig into it and competition will arise. SO! Im excited :) Can't wait to see what happens.

Edit:

As for the 4T80e, i can't quote anything cause i cant find the stuff i've read in the last months.... but as far as i recall, this is GM's strongest FWD trans. Im pretty sure it will take anything you put into the 4.6. I dont remember seeing anything mentioned with Mark99sts's turbo'd car's trans. I know the wiki says the trans can handle 8000lbs. I guess soon we will find out :)

Submariner409
03-04-10, 10:00 AM
If Jake, CHRFAB, and Wester's together is the only act in town, what does that say for your "discount" question - low demand generally equals NO discount. Jake's pricing and labor is already too low, in my book.

ponyboyt
03-04-10, 10:18 AM
i know its low. But when you add it all up, those cams are expensive. Then again maybe im wrong, after all it is 4 cams :) Seems to me if you take say a 99 STS in and for about $4000 it leaves the shop with a tune and cams worth close to 375hp with studs and resealed engine.... seems reasonable i guess compaired to what a $5000 honda civic would cost to make that much power and still be 1/10th the car :)

codewize
03-04-10, 04:28 PM
I'm currently in talks with Westers trying to figure out what to expect from a tune in an 01.

They claim 15 - 20% with no other mods.

I, once again am very sceptical.

97EldoCoupe
03-04-10, 07:05 PM
Code - I fully understand your skeptism, I can for the most part agree with you, but I feel a 10-15% increase is possible just with tuning. 20 is probably pushing it. Timing plays a big roll in performance and if Lyndon is correct, that the timing isn't advanced near as much as possible, I think there's a lot of power to be picked up there. A 4 valve, DOHC engine with 10.0:1 compression should be able to put out a fair bit of HP. There's nothing in these engines that's not performance oriented. The potential is there. And it's going to be uncapped.

Ponyboyt: - exactly how cheap exactly do you want performance modifications to be? You know me fairly well; I'm surprised at that last statement. I won't be getting a discount from Wester's nor do I want one. Why? $500 for a performance tune that will likely increase MPG after programming. So it will slowly save itself back. Also I can't hack into a PCM and change anything. I'm very computer literate- I can build websites, do image design, etc., but not when it comes to binary programming that sort of stuff. It's not in me. Lyndon has a lot of hours worth of work in this stuff. He's a very smart man and to have that ability/capability, he deserves to be paid well for it. Not to mention, I am just happy that someone has done this for us Caddy owners. I am already trying to keep pricing for my services competitive, but I also need to make sure that my bills and expenses get paid, or there won't be a Northstar Performance.

CHRFAB - Alan is very interested in using my studs on his Northstar builds. Yes I'll be giving him a discount. But his business is larger than mine. Look at what that guy has accomplished already. Nothing short of amazing engineering. I can't speak for my company but to have Wester's and CHRFAB involved in building one of these FWD cars, who else would you want involved in this? CHRFAB is the pioneer in high performance Northstars. Wester's being the first to crack the Northstar PCM and do it well (I have very high faith in Lyndon's work). And my studs holding those heads down.... What's my involvement in this? Everyone will soon find out, some of you already know. I guess everyone probably knows that all the income my shop is bringing in, is going straight back into the business and Northstar developments. This is all I've been focusing on for the last two years.

Lyndon was going to do something a bit different with the PCM for my '99 STS. I don't know exacly what he's up to but he wants me to test it. Happily! :D

ponyboyt
03-05-10, 12:56 AM
its in the thread title, thats what caught my eye. I know you try to set things up and pretty much keep to yourself until an answer is there and you know results will be there, i figured you got something up your sleeve heh... Maybe im looking too far ahead, but im picturing a complete package i guess. I know its early and anything anyone wants will have to be done by seperate people at different places, which a lot of people probably won't mind doing if they can foot the bill. I think discount was the wrong word to use, package deal i guess is what im wondering at. If you had PCM's available with pre-cut cams you could do a build in a couple days after shipping is out of the way. We'll have to wait and see what the demand is i guess.

Question: my car is a 4x O2 sensor car. Looks like from what ive read/heard they are a pain? can the PCM be modded now to eliminate the pre-cat so its down to 3 like the rest? Or would it even be worth it? I think the biggest issue i saw was a guy with dual pipes to the cat and it messed up the O2 cause it was on one side or something.

97EldoCoupe
03-05-10, 07:01 AM
Mason there's hope now for some extra horsepower to the wheels. That's the main thing. Package deal was pretty much what the thread title is supposed to point out. Maybe in time I can negotiate package deals with Wester's or CHRFAB but this is work in progress.

We won't have a car that will be as fast as a CTS-V- for that it would have to be rear-wheel drive, or we'll have to run our FWD Caddys down the track in reverse (oh boy) but 375hp to 400hp is actually something I'm leaning toward, which will be more than enough to blow the doors off that little Civic "Type R" sitting beside you at a red light, enough to give your various Japanese sports cars a run for their money, and beat most of them, and enough to make some stock LS1 F-body owners take note of your Cadillac Emblem on the rear of your car when you pass them under WOT on the highway.

FWD? Yeah - but guess what - we'll probably be able to run the 1/4 in the low-mid 13's (high 12's would be a dream) and do so with the Bose system turned up, A/C on cooling the nice leather interior, and have a nice smooth ride to and from the track. That's what a Cadillac is all about. These older FWD Cadillacs are somewhat inexpensive to pick up, in very good condition. The build quality is great. Is it worth doing all of this to 10 year old cars? Hell yeah!

ponyboyt
03-05-10, 08:48 AM
http://web2.airmail.net/nunnally/sts/northstarperf.htm

There is stuff there from 2002 and before. These guys were getting mid-high 13's with DIY mods, and some exhaust work. Too bad some of the links are dead now, i was reading them a few months ago. It went pretty far back, i was reading what they were saying when they discovered putting the gear selector in 1st or 2nd yielded quicker times :) Pretty cool stuff.

Submariner409
03-05-10, 09:50 AM
It's all posted in here and Seville - has been since 2005. Go back and start reading old threads. If you have not read every post in here and Seville you have no reference base. Tedious, I know, but needed for knowledge.

You can put the stick in 2 and drive around all day long, but the 2 - 3 shift will not occur until redline is reached, and as soon as you let off the gas after that shift the engine pulls the car down in speed and the transmission shifts back to 2 at an rpm which will not damage either engine or transmission. Same idea for 1 - and the transmission will shift to 2 at redline, then to 3 at redline, and so on.

You can't break it - it's faster than you are.

95caddykid
03-11-10, 03:31 AM
375 to 400 horse just makes me more then happy. and this is prolly just me talkin but i would pay any amount of money to knock the grins off those Fbodys fans haha

but growing up a bit here what kind of durability questions will be raised with these tunes? sure a little extra power and deactivated traction control would be frickin awesome if your caddy has 70k or less miles... but could damage be down with a car hitting 130K? im more then confident that the motor will hold up just fine but when it comes to half shafts and such what could we be talkin about here?

97EldoCoupe
03-11-10, 06:46 AM
As long as the car itself is in good shape, I don't think you'll have to worry much about the shafts, transmission, etc. The 4T80 is a tough transmission and provided you don't do too much tire-roasting around corners, I don't think the CV shafts will give out either. The shafts are tough. These are FWD cars- before the shafts would give out, the tires will part company with the asphault. In reality, if anything was about to snap/wear out, more HP may make it apparent a bit sooner.

I should have my PCM back any day now- then the testing begins.

Back to my '98 - stock PCM with the reground cams- 60MPH-100MPH comes in the blink of an eye. 0-60, well, I have traction problems. I can stomp on the throttle at 25MPH (40km/h) and it breaks loose, the tach hits red-line, and it just stays there until it picks up enough speed to regain traction. Above 100mph it still pulls like a freight train.

The new tires I bought last year around this time (General Exclaim UHP W-rated 235/55/17) are finished. I haven't rotated them yet so the back are still just like new.

I adjusted the idle speed so the stalling is gone, I no longer have to use two feet at a stop sign, but the idle speed is inconsistent. I played with the torx screw on the throttle body to open the throttle blade just a touch. I'll play with it some more but I think idle may need to be adjusted within the PCM.

The day the track opens I'm running down with my '98 and hopefully my '99 (Wester's tune) as well. I think I'll be in the 13's with my 98 but I can't say anything for sure until the track opens. Most of the snow is gone around here, that's a good sign.

After driving a Bonneville GXP for a while, it sure is nice to get back in a Caddy. The brakes on the GXP is one thing I'm going to miss though, I think they were about as big as some of the trucks I've owned in the past. The Cadillac's brakes feel weak. Time for more modifications, I guess :D

AJxtcman
03-15-10, 03:07 PM
They can't do much to the 00-03 PCMs yet. 96-99 is covered. It may have been listed for a while but Lyndon told me very clearly that it was just recent that they managed to crack the whole PCM for the 96-99 years. I believe they can only do very basic stuff currently on the 00+ PCMs.

Lyndon didn't crack anything!

Nothing was Cracked!

This has been tunable for some time. I gave Lyndon a lot of info.

Call me and I will explain

Submariner409
03-15-10, 04:48 PM
Hiya, AJ...............You in NC ?? :sneaky:

AJxtcman
03-15-10, 05:29 PM
Hiya, AJ...............You in NC ?? :sneaky:

I am in Rock Hill

Cracked is a very bad word
Search Cracked.

97EldoCoupe
03-18-10, 02:58 AM
However the PCM became tune-able.... what matters is that Caddy owners will soon have the option to tune. With what just happened to me I'll probably get someone to tune a PCM, increase the torque limiting paramters so it'll take me 45 seconds to accelerate to 30MPH and set it to take off in 3rd with or without T/C off. I am still questioning how Ontario can do this to people. Moreover, an officer with a chip on his shoulder who's seen me around town in a black STS... "Officer- I know you drive a Crown-Vic- but jealousy won't help you get a Caddy....."

Anyways, AJ, I've been cheering for you from day one- ever since I realized you were working on the tunes. Keep us posted on what you come up with AJ, we are interested without a doubt.

Cracked? Yeah I looked at the oil pans on the last two core engines I received. Cracked is not a good word.

Rocket88
03-18-10, 08:53 AM
However the PCM became tune-able.... what matters is that Caddy owners will soon have the option to tune. With what just happened to me I'll probably get someone to tune a PCM, increase the torque limiting paramters so it'll take me 45 seconds to accelerate to 30MPH and set it to take off in 3rd with or without T/C off. I am still questioning how Ontario can do this to people. Moreover, an officer with a chip on his shoulder who's seen me around town in a black STS... "Officer- I know you drive a Crown-Vic- but jealousy won't help you get a Caddy....."


Did you have a run in with the OPP?

ponyboyt
03-18-10, 09:20 AM
Cracked? Yeah I looked at the oil pans on the last two core engines I received. Cracked is not a good word.

:hide::hide:

Well....

So im curious about your little run in heh.... i've had more than quite a few myself in our beloved Ontario.... no less than 15 tickets last year, and so far i have only paid one... still going to court for 2... It's actualy something i've become good at :) (court).

Oddly enough, we are now into March and i haven't been stopped once yet this year.... :rice:


"Officer- I know you drive a Crown-Vic- but jealousy won't help you get a Caddy....."

It's actualy not a jealousy thing, believe me i used to feel the same way. It's more of a "control freak" thing. If you are having too much fun, too bad, "rules are rules" whether or not you are bothering anyone. But i think i know what you mean/feel.... this whole... "Ill straighten you out!" attitude has got to go....

I cant find a Robocop smily :(

IXSLR8
03-27-10, 11:23 PM
Hi Jake,

Did you ever get your stalling/idle issues solved while running Alan's 272 cams? I'm running Alan's 272 cams and have the same stalling issues but only when warm.

codewize
03-28-10, 01:27 AM
Can someone post factory duration and lift vs CHRFAB duration and lift in a table or something so we can see what's different.

Thanks

AJxtcman
03-28-10, 08:29 AM
Hi Jake,

Did you ever get your stalling/idle issues solved while running Alan's 272 cams? I'm running Alan's 272 cams and have the same stalling issues but only when warm.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/194982-northstar-fiero-crhfab-272-cams-misfires.html

AJxtcman
03-28-10, 12:31 PM
Revised Information

1993 - 1999 Cadillac (L37 (VIN 9)
Valve Timing (With Ramp at 0.100 mm Lift)
Intake Opens 13 BTDC
Intake Closes 73 ABDC
Intake Lobe Centerline 120 ADTC

Exhaust Opens 51 BBDC
Exhaust Closes 13 ATDC
Exhaust Lobe Centerline 109 BTDC

Valve Lift
Intake 9.4 mm 0.370 in
Exhaust 8.6 mm 0.339 in

Duration (@ 0.100 mm Lift)
Intake 266
Exhaust 244

Valve Overlap (@ 0.100 mm Lift) 26

.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1433194

lucas
03-28-10, 01:04 PM
count me in, going to get my cams and headwork done as soon as somebody tests this out ! Keep us posted:yup:

AJxtcman
03-28-10, 02:32 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1433194

Wrong link

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/122654-northstar-cam-specs.html#post1433194

ThumperPup
03-31-10, 09:09 PM
i know that there tune has not been cracked fro the 200-2004 year unless i missed somethign
but just curiouse im not sure i understand what all this means
does this mean that our caddys will be faster or what ?

AJxtcman
03-31-10, 09:22 PM
i know that there tune has not been cracked fro the 200-2004 year unless i missed somethign
but just curiouse im not sure i understand what all this means
does this mean that our caddys will be faster or what ?

No one has cracked anything. That is a bad term.

Wester's can tune Northstar PCM's

I am working on cracking the Seed & Key currently. This has nothing to do with the Tuning Software. This has to do with the software need to write the program/tune to the PCM's EPROM.

ThumperPup
03-31-10, 09:38 PM
No one has cracked anything. That is a bad term.

Wester's can tune Northstar PCM's

I am working on cracking the Seed & Key currently. This has nothing to do with the Tuning Software. This has to do with the software need to write the program/tune to the PCM's EPROM.

ah ok sorry did not mean to use that bad term
ok so what does a tune do for these cars
if they are able to do a tune for a 2000 and when they might be able to get that fix doen
what will it do how owuld it benifit me would it just shut of the speed limiter or what els would it do

Submariner409
04-01-10, 11:28 AM
...................Your best bet would be to get to the Wester's Garage (Canada) website and either contact them by e-mail or call on the phone.

A direct conversation with Wester's will give you far more information than posting back and forth in here and relying on guesswork and "maybe".

IXSLR8
04-06-10, 08:30 PM
Jake,

Did you ever get your stalling/idle issues solved while running Alan's reground 272 cams? I'm running Alan's 272 cams and have the same stalling issues you had but only when warm and when I come to a stop.

I understand that you adjusted the throttle body open just a touch and have some bugs yet work out.

How's it running now?

Hogg
06-01-10, 04:03 PM
Any updates?

peace
Hog

Old Skool Soldier
06-23-10, 03:40 PM
I emailed westers garage recently in regards to what the PCM tune will entail, I received an email.

"Dyno charts will be posted soon.
Shift changes, throttle response, spark remap, trouble codes disabled if need be, firmer shifts--no speed limiter."

I asked what the shift points would be raised to (6250 is fairly high as it is)

"Whatever the customer wishes.."

Hopefully we can see some Dyno results soon! I'll be interested in receiving this PCM once tuned!

-OSS

Submariner409
06-23-10, 04:59 PM
There are currently two other active threads concerning this development - when the work on the L37 powered test mule is done we'll all know.

For the 2000+ owners, stick this in your bonnet for reference.

codewize
06-23-10, 11:22 PM
Since I have some very close inside info on this development I'm going to tell you, don't expect anything anytime soon.

This is going to take months to work out and I'm not even sure they have the car yet, although I think they do.

I also want to know how they're dynoing these cars? Have you ever tried it, I have.



I emailed westers garage recently in regards to what the PCM tune will entail, I received an email.

"Dyno charts will be posted soon.
Shift changes, throttle response, spark remap, trouble codes disabled if need be, firmer shifts--no speed limiter."

I asked what the shift points would be raised to (6250 is fairly high as it is)

"Whatever the customer wishes.."

Hopefully we can see some Dyno results soon! I'll be interested in receiving this PCM once tuned!

-OSS

Submariner409
06-24-10, 09:43 AM
In order to fool the PCM into "thinking" the front and rear wheel speeds are the same - so no traction or torque limiting - you make up harnesses using junkyard wheel speed sensor connectors and part of the wire pigtails to parallel the two wheels of any axle to the other pair - so in this case you disconnect the rear wheel speed sensors, parallel the sensor output cables to the fronts, and the PCM then sees all 4 wheels spinning at the same speed. Conversely, if you use the rear wheels to send all 4 signals to the PCM you get no torque limiting because the PCM never "sees" front wheelspin. :thumbsup:

A couple of junkyard trips, some time on jackstands, a couple of 4PDT switches, and you can create a switchable circuit which gives you normal traction control or completely defeats all TC and torque limiting.

A couple of years ago there was a thread on how to accomplish roughly the same effect by using a pushbutton and diode to jump around the brake light switch circuit - this also inhibits torque control but does not compensate for unequal wheel speed sensing.

codewize
06-24-10, 11:37 AM
Are they doing that, or are they BS'ing us?

I think the diode trick is what I have from AJ. He was calling it torque management defeat. Or, "The Button".


In order to fool the PCM into "thinking" the front and rear wheel speeds are the same - so no traction or torque limiting - you make up harnesses using junkyard wheel speed sensor connectors and part of the wire pigtails to parallel the two wheels of any axle to the other pair - so in this case you disconnect the rear wheel speed sensors, parallel the sensor output cables to the fronts, and the PCM then sees all 4 wheels spinning at the same speed. Conversely, if you use the rear wheels to send all 4 signals to the PCM you get no torque limiting because the PCM never "sees" front wheelspin. :thumbsup:

A couple of junkyard trips, some time on jackstands, a couple of 4PDT switches, and you can create a switchable circuit which gives you normal traction control or completely defeats all TC and torque limiting.

A couple of years ago there was a thread on how to accomplish roughly the same effect by using a pushbutton and diode to jump around the brake light switch circuit - this also inhibits torque control but does not compensate for unequal wheel speed sensing.

Submariner409
06-24-10, 11:40 AM
Have no idea of how Wester's is running dyno testing on the FWD PCM controlled drivetrains. The speed sensor thingy was in here a couple of years ago.

There are several FWD dyno packages which use electrically powered rear rollers to maintain wheel speed identical at all 4 corners, so no limiting there, either.

Rocket88
06-24-10, 11:47 AM
Been talking a lot to Westers and it seems like they know what they are doing.

Warmarshall2nd
06-27-10, 05:46 PM
So... Silly question, but does this open up the world of possibilities regarding our N*s? Turbochargers, Nitrous, cams, etc etc... It's all open to use with this? Is there some 'one tune fits all' or does it have to be customized for every individual person?


Forgive me if I sound uneducated. Until now, I've not looked at tuning because of the restrictions on our PCMs...

Necrosan
06-27-10, 07:53 PM
There never is a "one tune fits all" tune for any vehicle.
It all depends on how the car was optioned, what has been changed by the end user, what has been replaced with higher quality stuff, etc.
And the "world of possibilities" has been open since the car came off the assembly line.
Hope you got the $$, though.

Warmarshall2nd
06-27-10, 09:49 PM
I know it still costs a lot of money but it seems that this makes our lives a lot easier :)

codewize
06-27-10, 09:59 PM
OK I don't want to bash Westers because they are working with us, BUT if you've only spoken to them on the phone you've heard the same thing we've been hearing for years. Bla bla bla 20HP increase etc etc etc.

Problem is once you put them on the spot and make them tell you what you're getting or what you can expect, it's no longer a cut and dry situation. Why, because they don't know the answer.

After I and another member beat them up a little they finally told us that they'd never worked on one before because they didn't have a car to test with. We've resolved that. It's actually my understanding now that they have 2 test cars from other members

I don't think it opens any doors, it just allows us to learn what works and what doesn't. What changes help and which ones hurt.

The problem isn't doing it, the new problem is knowing what to do. Hopefully, we'll soon know the answer to that.

The common goal is, what can the regular guy like us do to the PCM to gain some performance over stock. Part of that may depend on what other mods you already have.

kman0066
06-28-10, 10:12 AM
I sure hope they are successful. I have my kit car with a 2005 Northstar engine sitting in it that won't start. I'll have to see what happens first, them able to remove VATS from my PCM or me saving up enough money to buy a GM Tech 2 and just program it to work with the modules I bought from different cars. From what I've seen though, this programming availability has been "Coming Soon" for years and years now.

97EldoCoupe
07-07-10, 12:36 PM
I'm dealing very closely with Lynden regarding these Northstars. I have been talking to him regarding this for a long time and I am also funding a portion of this.

I have tested a tune on a 99 STS that was my car. It needs improvement but I can see significant changes in both power and fuel economy. One issue was the shifting. 50MPH give or take comes the 1-2 shift. Very firm, with a squak of the tires. But the shift point and the rev limiter are too close, sometimes it bounces off the rev limiter before the shift. Nevertheless, firm through all gears.

This 99 STS is now in southern Manitoba, being driven daily by a good friend of mine.

Lynden is going to have access to one of my cars for a good month or so to do actual dyno-proven tuning on it. He can work out all of the bugs at his leisure, and it may be coupled with some engine improvements from myself.

Everything is still in development, and Rocket88- you're talking about selling that GXP - how badly do you really want it tuned, if you want to ditch your Northstar in the first place?

Submariner409
07-07-10, 12:40 PM
The one we're lusting over is the 2000+ coil-on-plug 10:1 PCM, and Jake, you know I'll be one of the first in line.

Warmarshall2nd
07-08-10, 03:18 PM
I'm fine with the work being done on the 99s! Sitting here with baited breath waiting for some results, meanwhile saving up some cash and selling junk lying around the house :yup:

97EldoCoupe
07-08-10, 06:35 PM
Jim can I borrow your STS for a while? LOL

Looks like I need to get two cars over to Lynden. my dad's DTS has a new engine with studs, built by yours truly so I suppose that would be ready to be thrown on a dyno- nothing's going to pull those studs out. Now to convince him to let Lynden use it as a guinny pig.....

I believe the market would be for all OBD II cars. Even the '96+. Lots of people saving these Cadillacs and restoring them....

Speaking of which, I'm getting closer to finishing a deal with the shocks/struts. I have to buy a skid at a time worth $22,000. Jim; your STS has Magneride, right? I think I can sell shocks/struts at around $500/corner. This was a rough estimate that was given to me earlier today. I am waiting on an email. But even still, $500 is better than $1100 that I've seen in some places. Still wish I could knock that down some more. Those are Delphi original OEM struts/shocks- not aftermarket garbage.

No point in making these cars fast if they can't handle.... That '99 STS with the custom tune has aftermarket passive suspension. Rides nice and comfy, doesn't handle worth a damn.

Submariner409
07-08-10, 09:01 PM
Jake, Yes, I have the F55 car. Having driven other (early) 2002's and a couple of ETC's and a SLS, the F55 setup is the way to go. If you ever get the chance to get a STS built after 01/15/02, do it. Quite an amazing handling difference.

You get the struts/shocks and you have sold 4 corners: this one is worth keeping until the wheels fall off, which probably won't happen before I'm pushing up daisies...............

If I lived closer, y'all would have the car for a test mule. You know that without asking.

(Whatever became of the Baltimore Connection?)

AJxtcman
07-08-10, 10:26 PM
Hey Jake ask Lyndon if he would like a .dbf for a 2003 Northstar.
I have the Seed and Key combo also

Submariner409
07-09-10, 09:34 AM
............Hi, AJ.

Rocket88
07-09-10, 12:23 PM
Everything is still in development, and Rocket88- you're talking about selling that GXP - how badly do you really want it tuned, if you want to ditch your Northstar in the first place?

Jake, I am undecided what to do. Been going through a love/hate relationship with this car. I haven't had the car for that long yet, and I have spent about $3000 on it in basic repairs and maintenance, with about another $1500 to go to make it mechanically and operationally sound. Makes me wonder often if I want to drop another $1500-$2000 to get tuned.

I just don't know what to do. Some days I just want to run yelling and screaming from it. Other days, I still love the car and wonder what potential is missing in this thing. Frustrating also to drive this V8 powered beast, that guzzles gas like crazy (showing 18.7 liters per 100 km or 12.6 mpg since I last reset it) knowing that I am snack food for any hard driven V6 Toyota Camry or Avalon...

codewize
07-09-10, 03:57 PM
Yeah, Hi AJ.

ejguillot
07-09-10, 05:09 PM
Hi AJ, long time no see!

97EldoCoupe
07-09-10, 08:20 PM
Jake, I am undecided what to do. Been going through a love/hate relationship with this car. I haven't had the car for that long yet, and I have spent about $3000 on it in basic repairs and maintenance, with about another $1500 to go to make it mechanically and operationally sound. Makes me wonder often if I want to drop another $1500-$2000 to get tuned.

I just don't know what to do. Some days I just want to run yelling and screaming from it. Other days, I still love the car and wonder what potential is missing in this thing. Frustrating also to drive this V8 powered beast, that guzzles gas like crazy (showing 18.7 liters per 100 km or 12.6 mpg since I last reset it) knowing that I am snack food for any hard driven V6 Toyota Camry or Avalon...

You must be either driving it hard or using it all the time in the city. V8's don't belong in the city at all if you care about fuel economy. Toronto is more "stop" than "go".

I miss that car. FYI; the Pontiac I-shaft "steering clunk" is not a safety concern; rather an annoyance to the driver that I became accustomed to pretty quick. Only occurred at low speeds in parking lots. The replacement upgraded shaft should have fixed that issue; but I would have chosen to opt for the 00+ Deville shaft. Much better design, and a direct bolt-in. The important thing is to identify what is a safety concern and what isn't.

The car was worth $15k so you're still ahead of the game. Keep it undercoated; there's not a spot of rust under that Poncho.

97EldoCoupe
07-09-10, 08:28 PM
AJ it's time we reopened discussion. I'm between two tuners who both have tremendous capabilities; both of who are at each others necks. I will not sell either one out because I don't work that way; but we need to talk. AJ I know you've referred people to me before and it is much appreciated- you've also helped me out with some tech info that I needed.

I really wish you and Lynden could work together on this Northstar stuff; both brilliant minds in the tuning world. I think you'd both get a lot further, a lot faster, and make a lot more money.

That Eaton S/C project is still in the back of the shop. With tuning being capable; that S/C project may come out from under the cover soon. A FWD, 4.6L STS that could keep up to a new Camaro would be one hell of a thrill in a luxury car- I just may have to step up to the M112.

97EldoCoupe
07-09-10, 08:39 PM
Rocket88; towing a 4000lb Cadillac on a 2000lb tandem car hauler behind my 2010 Sierra 4x4: results in fuel economy of 17 L/100kms (13.7MPG).

Thinking about it harder; there is no way in hell that GXP is sucking the fuel back like that. I was using about 12L/100 kms and I was driving it hard.

N*Caddy
07-09-10, 09:06 PM
I do the Gardner/DVP/403 back and forth every day during rush hours getting 19.1 MPG and I am that STS that drives 1 foot from your rear bumper until you move the @#$# on the right lane since you seem to take the dog for a pleasure drive not need to be on time at work.

AJxtcman
07-09-10, 09:47 PM
I really wish you and Lyndon could work together on this Northstar stuff; both brilliant minds in the tuning world. I think you'd both get a lot further, a lot faster, and make a lot more money.

.

I am purchasing another PCM from him. Long story and it is for a Fiero. I need a 96 to 99 Cadillac PCM to run a 4T80E. I am paying out way more than what I feel it is worth, but my customer will be happy and I am getting a new Shelby PCM and a new harness.

I have been building software for Duramax's, V6 cars, V8 cars, and 4 cylinder cars and trucks. The 4 cyl stuff is all new to TunerCat/JET
I have been really busy :bonkers:

codewize
07-09-10, 09:52 PM
Can we please stay focused on the topic of this thread. We have enough similar threads which have gone into whirlwinds.

2000+ N* Tuning, Westers. Please please please stay on topic this time. I don't care about Fieros, V6's, 4 cyl's, Diesels, GXP's, etc. It's all old news. Even pre 2000, it's done, go buy it.

97EldoCoupe
07-09-10, 10:45 PM
Codewise, I must be missing something - who has the '96-'99 tunes for sale? -Lynden is still playing around with these to perfect the tune- what's going on?

The GXP is also a Northstar, '04/'05, LD8 with the FV4 gears.

AJxtcman
07-09-10, 10:46 PM
Can we please stay focused on the topic of this thread. We have enough similar threads which have gone into whirlwinds.

2000+ N* Tuning, Westers. Please please please stay on topic this time. I don't care about Fieros, V6's, 4 cyl's, Diesels, GXP's, etc. It's all old news. Even pre 2000, it's done, go buy it.


If it's a 2000+ Northstar, we've got nothing ready yet.

its all about the dbf

AJxtcman
07-09-10, 10:50 PM
I don't care about Fieros
It's all old news. Even pre 2000, it's done, go buy it.

This is not an LS1/Shelby PCM. It is a 99 Cadillac PCM and I am using a 99 Cadillac wire harness
Do you understand what that brings to the table?

AJxtcman
07-09-10, 10:53 PM
I am doing up 2 tunes for guys with CHRFAB cams. One is a twin Turbo setup.
Its all about the dbf

97EldoCoupe
07-09-10, 11:03 PM
AJ, email sent to your .wi.rr acct.

97EldoCoupe
07-09-10, 11:13 PM
The only thing a Northstar lacks as a performance engine is cubic inches. 4 valves per cylinder, high winding, centrally located spark plugs, all aluminum and decently high compression. And light weight!

I have 236 new blocks and 500+ cylinder heads to work with. 4.0 and 4.6 both. L37, L47, and LD8. I have access to RWD forged cranks. That's plenty to work with for mechanical builds.

What about the 283 Chevy, the 289 Ford, the 302 Chevy.... All small cube engines, iron engines, 2 valves per cylinder, and made a LOT of power. The 279 CI Northstar and all of the performance goodies it has; has a lot of potential. And it's not just the peak power either- it's the power across the RPM band. I like the broad powerband. Add a superchager and instant off-the-line torque is added.

AJ and Lynden - it's up to these guys to do the PCM work to wake these up and allow them to be modified and supercharged.

Rocket88
07-09-10, 11:50 PM
Rocket88; towing a 4000lb Cadillac on a 2000lb tandem car hauler behind my 2010 Sierra 4x4: results in fuel economy of 17 L/100kms (13.7MPG).

Thinking about it harder; there is no way in hell that GXP is sucking the fuel back like that. I was using about 12L/100 kms and I was driving it hard.

Well, that is what the DIC is telling me, and the number of trips to the gas station supports. I have seen as low as 9/100km on the highway, but mid to high teens is what I get all the time for mixed city/highway driving. I have seen over 20 litres per 100km in around town use with some slightly enthusiastic driving. I really don't drive that hard anymore, and this is the kind of mileage I have always gotten. This thing is certainly the worst gas hog I have had since my 1978 Trans Am!

AJxtcman
07-10-10, 08:40 AM
Can we please stay focused on the topic of this thread.

I don't care about V6's, 4 cyl's, Diesels, GXP's, etc..

To Everybody
The significance of me building "Vehicle Definition Files" (VDF's) is I can and I am Learning and I can spot of tables with ease now.

Example: TunerCat/JET doesn't support 4 cyl's. I am build VDF's for them just like I would for a Northstar! The way I check my work is to look at my work in HPTuners. I am not talking about tuning at all. I am talking about the Software and all of the Parameters. One problem with the V6 and 4 cyl stuff is that HPT has soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many tables that are not correct It takes me a lot of time to verify my work. Like it would with the Northstar VDF's.

Seed & Key
This is the Lock on the PCM.
On the 4 cyl GM used a single Intel memory chip. If you remove the chip from the PCM and put it on a Chip Reader you will have the Seed & Key.
On 96 to 99 Northstar PCM's Delco (not Delphi) used 4 small memory chips like some of the older "Black Box" PCM's. I don't have any way to read these chips. I have 10 dead PCM's I could start pulling the chips, but I don't think the seed & key are left on them. Erases when I bricked the PCM's
On the 2000 to 2003 Northstar PCM GM use 1 Intel chip just like the LS1, V6, 4 cyl memory chips. I have pulled them. I have the seed and key and the bin files.

Now I have the seed & key and the bin off of the chip. Now I just need to run the bin in WinOLS and Idapro.
I like WinOLS. So in WinOLS it identifies say 50 table. I start mapping them out. Now I need to know X & Y. X could be about 20 different scale. Say I know Y is RPM. GM uses about 10 different RPM scale.
How can I ever get them correct?

If I had a GM dbf I would know the scaling. If EFILIve supported Northstar's I would have the scaling.


This is the Problem I run into with using HPT
This is a bad HPT table
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/PCM%20Stuff/HPT/extracolumn.jpg

This is the table in Tunerpro
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/AJxtcman/PCM%20Stuff/HPT/correct.jpg

After all of that it comes down to the quality of life I am living.
Too much code for me right now.
The 4 cyl & Duramax stuff are just a pet project.

codewize
07-10-10, 09:56 AM
It was my understanding, from Westers, that the 97 - 99 tune was available and the only reason they hadn't done a 2000+ was because they didn't have a test platform.


Codewise, I must be missing something - who has the '96-'99 tunes for sale? -Lynden is still playing around with these to perfect the tune- what's going on?

The GXP is also a Northstar, '04/'05, LD8 with the FV4 gears.

Rocket88
07-10-10, 11:25 AM
It was my understanding, from Westers, that the 97 - 99 tune was available and the only reason they hadn't done a 2000+ was because they didn't have a test platform.

That is my understanding also.

AJxtcman
07-10-10, 11:45 AM
It was my understanding, from Westers, that the 97 - 99 tune was available and the only reason they hadn't done a 2000+ was because they didn't have a test platform.

Correct. I am getting a 99 Cadillac PCM from him.

"If it's a 2000+ Northstar, we've got nothing ready yet. " From Lyndon

Rocket88
07-10-10, 03:04 PM
I do the Gardner/DVP/403 back and forth every day during rush hours getting 19.1 MPG and I am that STS that drives 1 foot from your rear bumper until you move the @#$# on the right lane since you seem to take the dog for a pleasure drive not need to be on time at work.

I would be VERY happy with that kind of mileage. Even if I drove it cautiously.

Rocket88
07-10-10, 03:14 PM
You must be either driving it hard or using it all the time in the city. V8's don't belong in the city at all if you care about fuel economy. Toronto is more "stop" than "go".

I miss that car. FYI; the Pontiac I-shaft "steering clunk" is not a safety concern; rather an annoyance to the driver that I became accustomed to pretty quick. Only occurred at low speeds in parking lots. The replacement upgraded shaft should have fixed that issue; but I would have chosen to opt for the 00+ Deville shaft. Much better design, and a direct bolt-in. The important thing is to identify what is a safety concern and what isn't.

The car was worth $15k so you're still ahead of the game. Keep it undercoated; there's not a spot of rust under that Poncho.

Well, the issue I had was a large dead area in the middle of the ISS. You could almost go an 8th of a turn on the highway before there was ANY reposnse at all. I mean, 1970's lincoln type of free play. The clunk itself was more of an annoyance. The revised design is much better than the original and works beautifully.

$15K? There are a couple of dealers asking that for them in Ontario, but those cars have been advertised for months. The ones that have been listed privately and have actually sold have gone for less than $10K. I am guessing that I would be lucky to get $10K out of it, even with everything fixed. So, if I spent another $2K on it, I might get $10K out of it. So I am actually well upside down when it comes to value. The joys of trying to sell a used GM product.

97EldoCoupe
07-11-10, 10:20 AM
1/8th of a turn? 45 degree sweep with no steering movement? Exaggeration like that doesn't belong in this thread. Back to tuning and back to the people who are happy with their GM products-

I take posession of a property in Manitoba around October sometime. This is 1/2 way closer to Wester's. This new property is over 7 acres, with a newer and larger shop, a newer and better house (I stay close to work). There's a good chance HG work will slow down out there, a little bit. This will give me a bit more time to play with the S/C project.

I have a custom built roots-style supercharger in mind that needs to be built from scratch. A new aluminum cast design; much like the LC3 of the V series. The new casting would include a lubrication/hydraulic pump that also takes place of the power steering pump. This self-contained unit would replace the P/S pump and intake manifold. The two issues I have with this is the precision machining of the casting, and the casting. It sure would be a nice little unit if I could work together with the right companies.

Starting with a new supercharger from scratch would allow one to choose the displacement, and the RPM and pulley size for the required CFM.

An integrated intercooler would be a nice touch; like the V-Series. But without a few million dollars in engineering and equipment costs; that's not exactly feasible. I'll still look into the custom unit but a bolt-on Eaton M-series S/C would probably be the best bet.

97EldoCoupe
07-11-10, 10:37 AM
The 98 STS with the custom cams that I have has not been down the 1/4 mile yet. After the accused racing charge; that black Caddy hasn't seen the road, other than a few late night cruises in the same town I got charged; to tick off the guys who nailed me and show them they're not as powerful as they think. Amazing how driving 10km/h under the speed limit can upset people-

The steering rack mount on the cammed '98 broke on the right hand side (Now THERE'S cause for steering concerns) and that's why it hasn't been down the track. If I can get under there and repair the steering issue before Friday I'll trailer it out there and make a pass- see if there's any improvement from the 14.95 I ran before.

Currently my decals are not displayed on my vehicles. I noticed the Ontario Provincial Five-O's were watching anything with "Northstar Performace" on the rear window like a hawk.

GizmoQ
07-11-10, 11:27 AM
I have a custom built roots-style supercharger in mind that needs to be built from scratch. A new aluminum cast design; much like the LC3 of the V series. The new casting would include a lubrication/hydraulic pump that also takes place of the power steering pump. This self-contained unit would replace the P/S pump and intake manifold. The two issues I have with this is the precision machining of the casting, and the casting. It sure would be a nice little unit if I could work together with the right companies.

Starting with a new supercharger from scratch would allow one to choose the displacement, and the RPM and pulley size for the required CFM.

An integrated intercooler would be a nice touch; like the V-Series. But without a few million dollars in engineering and equipment costs; that's not exactly feasible. I'll still look into the custom unit but a bolt-on Eaton M-series S/C would probably be the best bet.

Started a new thread: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/204931-collaboration-ideas-about-superchargers-fwd-northstar.html#post2300678 hope you'd join in and share some of your expertise.

miwise
07-11-10, 03:33 PM
I appreciate the work you do and all the times you helped me. Even though all I bought was the stud kit you were willing to offer your expertise and advise. There are few people like this these days. I sincerely appreciate it from the bottom of my heart. Especially since my friend whose a mechanic had never worked on a Northstar was helping me. You offered me all the information I needed to help us be successful in my project. For that I appreciate. You truly go above and beyond when dealing with us ignorant first timers, but I feel the knowledge I obtained is priceless.

97EldoCoupe
07-11-10, 04:00 PM
Micah everyone starts somewhere and I think you're doing very well for a first time Northstar builder-

I'm not always available on the phone and there are times I overlook emails but I'm glad to help when I can. Thank you for the kind words :)

Submariner409
07-11-10, 07:01 PM
Before this thread, which used to have good information, turns into a real pissing contest, why don't you guys duke it out in Outlook or WebMail ???

I personally and financially have had dealings with Jake Wiebe and find him to be an honest, conscientious man, if perhaps a bit too generous. I would not hesitate to have him work on or sell me a car.

Hogg
07-12-10, 03:39 PM
There seems to be some confusion about the calibrations that are being flashed into the 96-99 Cadillac PCM's.

You can get a calibration that will run a Northstar engine in a sand rail, boat or any other non FWD OB2 Cadillac car.

OR

You can get a calibration flashed into a 1996-99 Cadillac PCM for use specifically in a FWD OBD2 Cadillac car with a 4.6 Northstar engine.


These are 2 seperate and distinct enities.

Both have been accomplished, and both work.

peace
Hog

IXSLR8
08-03-10, 01:00 AM
Jake, any new information on your 272 cams and solving the tuning issues?

AJxtcman
08-08-10, 09:41 PM
Jake do you know what the specs are for the injectors?

Vacuum Vs. Injector Flow Rate
29.9" (VAC) 2.172 gm/sec or 17.2 #/hr
28.4" (VAC) 2.203 gm/sec or 17.5 #/hr
27" (VAC) 2.305 gm/sec or 18.3 #/hr
25.5" (VAC) 2.406 gm/sec or 19.1 #/hr
24" (VAC) 2.453 gm/sec or 19.5 #/hr
22.5" (VAC) 2.469 gm/sec or 19.6 #/hr
21.1" (VAC) 2.570 gm/sec or 20.4 #/hr
19.6" (VAC) 2.633 gm/sec or 20.9 #/hr
18.1" (VAC) 2.648 gm/sec or 21.0 #/hr
16.6" (VAC) 2.656 gm/sec or 21.1 #/hr
15.2" (VAC) 2.664 gm/sec or 21.1 #/hr
13.7" (VAC) 2.695 gm/sec or 21.4 #/hr
12.2" (VAC) 2.789 gm/sec or 22.1 #/hr
10.7" (VAC) 2.898 gm/sec or 23.0 #/hr
9.3" (VAC) 2.953 gm/sec or 23.4 #/hr
7.8" (VAC) 2.977 gm/sec or 23.6 #/hr
6.3" (VAC) 3.016 gm/sec or 23.9 #/hr :hmm:


Do you have any other numbers on the 95 to 99 injectors used on the 4.0L and the 4.6L?

Hogg
11-02-10, 03:52 PM
Any updates?

peace
Hog

Hogg
12-07-10, 07:43 AM
Bump?

97EldoCoupe
12-07-10, 03:39 PM
No AJ, I don't have the specs - looks like you definitely do.

Hogg- my '98 STS, the cammed one, is toast. Totalled. Black on black, Z-rated. I found a replacement car, another black on black, also fully optioned and z-rated, but it needs a quarter panel (and HG's).

I'm closer to Wester's now , 12 hours away as opposed to 36+. The last PCM I had him tune still kicks out at 90MPH due to a suspension code, still takes off in 2nd with the traction off, well, Lynden needs more time with these PCM's I guess.

I found a new source for the tuning. These guys were the original programmers at Delphi who actually wrote the code for the factory PCM's. Right now it's all about $$$. I just moved. I'm almost finished paying off my 239 engine blocks.

AJxtcMan - as of right now - what are your capabilities? I know you're smart, I know you know your stuff, but all things taken into consideration - how far into these PCM's are you? send me an email info@Northstarperformance.com. I want to work with the very best tuner out there. In an email I sent you before, I stated clearly I will not share info from Lynden, also I will not share yours with him. I hope you can understand and respect this. I'm willing to finance certain things and if a 98 PCM could be completely unlocked, and certain parameters modified, I am willing to put $$ forward.

ga_etc
12-10-10, 05:38 PM
So does anyone have any hard info on what is possible right now with these tunes?

Submariner409
12-10-10, 06:42 PM
1999 and + PCM = zilch.

Look at the Wester's Garage website, price list - "coming soon".

AJ is not doing late Northstar FWD PCM's now.

ga_etc
12-10-10, 10:13 PM
Project on hold then.

AJxtcman
12-16-10, 07:05 PM
http://www.monodax.com/forums/introduction-forum/2435-question-aj-post16305.html#post16305


Just so I understand. You are finishing up more Northstar VDF's that you won't sell. You will charge Monodax forum members full boat for a third party tune on top of that also. Correct?



You have

93 to 95 4.0L & 4.6L Northstar VDF's Done

96 to 99 4.0L & 4.6L Northstar VDF's Done

2000 to 2003 4.0L & 4.6L Northstar VDF's are done or not?

2004 & 2005 4.6L Northstar VDF's your working on?

2006 + 4.6L FWD Northstar VDF's are done



It took a huge effort and every thing we could to get you to release the diesel VDF's



Maybe you are the VDF Nazi?



You may even have 4 cyl VDF's from what I hear

RippyPartsDept
12-16-10, 07:33 PM
hmm... what's that mean?

AJxtcman
12-16-10, 07:51 PM
hmm... what's that mean?

Tuners need the VDF's to tune cars. We use a program and the VDF fits individule year, makes, models. Wester's is the VDF Nazi

codewize
12-21-10, 11:34 PM
You guys are still on this huh. Westers is not much help. They know nothing about 2000 - 2005 N* PCM's. they claim it's because they never had one to work on. Not true. It's because they, like everyone else, can't make any improvements to them.

Do I need to get into the numbers again?

I think you're all barking up the wrong tree with this. I can't tell you how much time and money has been spent on this project to yield no gains to date that I'm aware of. Westers was, at one point recently advertising 25 - 50 HP gains and 10% tq gains until we called them on it. Now they have nothing.

Stop banging your heads against the wall and buy a Camaro for god sakes. If and when someone figures out how to make gains with a N* PCM the cars will all have 200,000 miles on them and no one will care.

Submariner409
12-22-10, 10:39 AM
Bingo !!!! :highfive:

(..........and here's a tip from an old engine builder: When you're looking at someones "270 degree" cam, you NEED to know the lobe lift at which the cam timing is measured. .000" = maximum timing and is the hype measurement; .006" is used by some manufacturers and yields a somewhat lesser timing figure; .050" is the cam manufacturers' standard and represents the actual running timing of the cam. SO, while a cam may measure 270 degrees at .000" lift, it will change to about 224 degrees at .050". Your "270" degree cam suddenly becomes a fairly mild street-upper midrange cam. Your "255" degree cam becomes a mild low rpm/high torque cam. You gotta read the numbers, and know what you're reading.) (Don't take my word for all this: get into Comp Cams, Engle, and Iskenderian and do some deep reading.)

97EldoCoupe
12-27-10, 12:56 PM
Finally got a video uploaded of the STS with the custom cams - you can see all the damaged that happened while I was towing it. My 2010 Sierra didn't survive untouched either. All because a huge buck was on the freeway. When I came to a stop I was stuck on the 402 freeway in my truck, facing traffic. The Caddy took out 10 guard rail posts and slid underneath 3 of those high tension cables. I don't know if I'm going to restore the body or not. Thinking of slipping the engine in my 97 ETC.

Sorry for the darkness-


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNNSxNiQ_eo

97EldoCoupe
12-27-10, 01:10 PM
The only reason the check engine light is on is because of a P300 random misfire code, I can drive it forever and not have the code appear, unless I allow the rpms to drop below 500ish. I have the cams installed straight up, there's a bit too much overlap for a good idle so I might play around with the timing a bit. The way it is now it needs about 800-1000rpms to maintain a good idle, plenty of vacuum to handle the power brakes.

This is in development. This engine will be going to Westers in one of my Caddys early in the New Year to have a pcm tune developed. Lynden is going to have it on the dyno and run the numbers and play around with it until there is a perfected tune. I think my black on black ETC is about the best car I have for this engine.

drewsdeville
12-27-10, 01:13 PM
Very nice.

I agree, scrap the car. These STS's are a dime a dozen, there are plenty out there, and I really don't see how it's worth that kind of effort (looks c-pillar got crushed, plus whatever critical areas we can't see) to save. That's probably especially true with the number of cars you have at your disposal.

97EldoCoupe
12-27-10, 01:20 PM
Yeah it's just that car is in such good shape otherwise. Suspension is tight, interior is almost perfect (sunroof cover starting to hang) it smells new still, and it's been with me for a while. I don't like to let go of vehicles :)

I'll likely scrap it.

ponyboyt
12-27-10, 03:38 PM
you'd be surprised how hard it REALLY is to find good ones up here. Ive seen them as low as 20,000 miles (Jake did you see that 97 with 28,000km's for $3500? The guy lost his license..) I have a black on black 97 thats never seen snow, with 220,000 KM's and it is by far the best condition car ive seen yet. Rust free (hell, its scratch free) but it still needs work. The roads around here are horrible, bushings always shot, rear suspension usualy rotted, play in the steering. Ive seen the cars at Jakes shop, the ones from the south.... cars up here dont compare, not even close..... My 98 had under 100,000 miles. It needs bushings, and probably rear springs. Salt and snow... the body's can hold up on these cars, but there are some things that just dont.

AJxtcman
12-27-10, 05:51 PM
, there's a bit too much overlap

I don't think so

codewize
12-27-10, 09:42 PM
Well it sounds good but I have to be myself and ask. Where are the time slips and the dyno slips ?

97EldoCoupe
12-28-10, 12:02 AM
Without taking it to the track I won't have any - I just finished stating I just wound up in an accident with this car- without a thorough check of the underbody and driveline/suspension components I'm not running it again. The 1/4 mile tracks are closed here in Canada, in the winter. I could get it dynoed, probably, but I also did not do a "before" run. If I were to take the car to the track in the condition it's in I'm pretty sure I'd be disqualified anyways-

All I had planned was to show a video of the sound of a slightly modified Northstar. The rest is to follow. Keep in mind Code, I did not produce any stupid false claims- nor will I. I could tell you right now it's slower than stock- would you believe me?

It's quick. I have driven it before the accident with these cams. It breathes. It moves. But until I can produce solid numbers and time slips that it actually is quicker, I'm not promising a damn thing.

When the engine leaves Westers' I'll take the numbers he's giving me from the dyno, I'll do a track run, and I'll get it dynoed a second time at a second facility and post all of the information.

ponyboyt
12-28-10, 12:59 AM
would have been easy enough to race my 98 o.o

too late now lol...

for both of us :(

AJxtcman
12-28-10, 11:27 AM
Without taking it to the track I won't have any - I just finished stating I just wound up in an accident with this car- without a thorough check of the underbody and driveline/suspension components I'm not running it again. The 1/4 mile tracks are closed here in Canada, in the winter. I could get it dynoed, probably, but I also did not do a "before" run. If I were to take the car to the track in the condition it's in I'm pretty sure I'd be disqualified anyways-

All I had planned was to show a video of the sound of a slightly modified Northstar. The rest is to follow. Keep in mind Code, I did not produce any stupid false claims- nor will I. I could tell you right now it's slower than stock- would you believe me?

It's quick. I have driven it before the accident with these cams. It breathes. It moves. But until I can produce solid numbers and time slips that it actually is quicker, I'm not promising a damn thing.

When the engine leaves Westers' I'll take the numbers he's giving me from the dyno, I'll do a track run, and I'll get it dynoed a second time at a second facility and post all of the information.

We ran a 14.1 on my tune
We ran a 13.6 with Nitrous on the same car
I think on that hot summer day at the track with the guys from this forum we ran a mid 14. Not so bad for a car that ran a 16.1 from the factory

xwlmvRpEF04&feature

ga_etc
01-10-11, 02:17 AM
Jake, the STS with the cams sounds great. I see a definite, large, improvement in how the car revs. Even if you can't get a tune on the PCM, the right grind on a set of cams for these cars could really be a hit. I still see light at the end of this tunnel.

codewize
01-10-11, 07:52 PM
So why is it then that my car has never run any better on your tune than the factory PCM I always told you that I'd be totally happy with high 14's let alone low 14's

What else is done to that car?

97EldoCoupe
01-12-11, 06:43 PM
To my STS, nothing. Bone stock. There is an exhaust leak close to the manifolds, you can hear it. Broken M10 bolt. The cams were the only modification.

As for the rev speed improvement, yes- I noticed that too.

I want to set up a test car where I can remove and reinstall the engine in 2 hours. This means less bolts, less brackets, quick connectors, etc. Just to be able to test and tune and modify things easier. Shouldn't be too hard.

This year, once I'm caught up to everything; I want to get further into the R&D and stuff. I wouldn't mind a mid 13 second ETC running on pump gas-

codewize
01-14-11, 09:18 AM
Whatever car they're claiming 14.1 with. I think that was a DHS

Racer704
01-16-11, 02:39 PM
We ran a 14.1 on my tune
We ran a 13.6 with Nitrous on the same car
I think on that hot summer day at the track with the guys from this forum we ran a mid 14. Not so bad for a car that ran a 16.1 from the factory

xwlmvRpEF04&feature

Hi AJ what track was that at sir?

codewize
01-18-11, 02:25 PM
So what you're trying to say is that I'm a full 1.2 seconds slower through the traps because of my driving? I think not. Come up with a solid reason why my DTS with an AJ tune can't run faster than 15.7 but with the factory tune it runs 15.2 consistently.

Somehow the tested DHS magically runs 14.1

Tell me why. Why can't anyone talk regarding this topic. All we get is one line replies that don't mean anything and videos of cars we know nothing about.

If someone has a tune that works, tell us. Then tell us why it works and how we can benefit from it. If other things are done to the super car, tell us about that as well.

This thread is almost a year old with 133 post and not a single useful piece of information just the same video of the same cars over and over. The same people talking about nitrous and the same people talking about the one set of cams that CHRFAB made for someone that don't really work right.
If you're just going to keep rambling with pointless information that helps no one, then pick up the phone, call each other, talk about nothing and close this thread.

vincentm
04-14-11, 12:08 PM
Jake any updates on this?

97EldoCoupe
04-14-11, 06:41 PM
No updates. Stud kit work comes first along with HG repairs at the moment and a move finalization. Roll threading is now being done in my shop-

97EldoCoupe
04-14-11, 06:42 PM
I still believe a lot is possible with the Northstar but I have to do one thing at a time right now-

ThumperPup
04-14-11, 09:30 PM
hey jake did you get my PM ?

codewize
04-15-11, 10:01 PM
And just for the record, a cam swap is NOT bone stock. That's a pretty major upgrade. Not a $200 bolt on.

To my STS, nothing. Bone stock. There is an exhaust leak close to the manifolds, you can hear it. Broken M10 bolt. The cams were the only modification.