: 500cid in 76 seville?



NickJ
08-13-04, 11:43 PM
just wondering if anyone would have any info needed to swap a 500 into a 76 seville? ive got the seville but no motor yet. being as that car is basically a long camaro, i figured a 500 aught to make it interesting and very stealthy on the street. i want it to appear stock, no headers or anything, stock air cleaner and everything. no air cond., emissions or anything like that though. i do want to use a single exit exhaust though to keep with the sleeper look. let me know what i need to make it run at its best and fit in there nice if you can.

please help, im lost on this one, its my first caddy.

Nick J

JTraik
08-14-04, 01:32 AM
Start huntin around for a 70 Eldo!

wurstarme
08-14-04, 02:48 AM
just wondering if anyone would have any info needed to swap a 500 into a 76 seville? ive got the seville but no motor yet. being as that car is basically a long camaro, i figured a 500 aught to make it interesting and very stealthy on the street. i want it to appear stock, no headers or anything, stock air cleaner and everything. no air cond., emissions or anything like that though. i do want to use a single exit exhaust though to keep with the sleeper look. let me know what i need to make it run at its best and fit in there nice if you can.

please help, im lost on this one, its my first caddy.

Nick J
So you want to make a sleeper, but you don't want to do anything to improve the engine's power? As long as the exterior looks stock, you have a sleeper. If you're planning on showing your engine to each person you race, it's not a sleeper and there's no point in trying to make it one. A friend of mine is putting a Chevy 350 stroker into an 1984 Vovlo station wagon. That, my friend, is a sleeper! ;)

You could put in headers, an intake (if clearance allows it; make sure before you buy it!), a mild cam, and a new carb. You could put dual exhaust on it; just have one pipe out the back (stock) and one phantom pipe with a hidden tip. For the headers, you can get from them Cad Company (http://www.cad500parts.com/), although I'm not sure how they would fit. Check with them before you buy. There are much cheaper shorty headers by SS Auto Chrome on eBay, although I've heard mixed reviews, and they didn't fit my 1974 Coupe DeVille. Check Lunati for Cadillac 500 cams. For the carb, it depends on who you ask. There are plenty of threads on this forum alone regarding carb selection. It sounds like a great project...they won't know what hit them!

I know you were looking for tips on the actual swap, and unfortunately I don't have any. I'm just a little confused about what you're going for and wanted to offer some suggestions. Good luck with the project :)

NickJ
08-14-04, 06:55 PM
i just want it to appear stock in every form. no aftermarket parts or anything. headers are a huge hint that theres more to the car as well as some loud duals, and an aluminum intake.

wurstarme
08-14-04, 10:41 PM
Ah I see. Well the exhaust could be quieted down for sure, but it's up to you. Good luck :)

barge master
08-14-04, 11:43 PM
]A friend of mine is putting a Chevy 350 stroker into an 1984 Vovlo station
wagon. That, my friend, is a sleeper! ;)[/QUOTE]

A Volvo wagon, totally demented, you gotta love it!!

The Seville sounds wicked cool too. If you just keep it all stock it'll be easier and cheaper too. You just gotta do the oil pan blah blah blah, but that will go right in there pretty easily. Good luck.

EastOfGratiot
08-15-04, 12:34 AM
http://hometown.aol.com/wadewmbryant/455.html

I was looking into putting a 500 in my Seville but found it was MUCH easier to drop in a 455 Olds V8. I even toyed with the idea of making it look 100% stock by cobbling a factory appearing fuel injection system.

The 455 Olds is a direct swap in for the 350 Olds V8 that the Seville came with. You can use the factory engine mounts, starter, front cover, water pump, fan, shroud, distributor, balancer (if it is dampened) and ALL your factory accessories and brackets. A SLEEPER - YOU BET. You can build a 455 Oldsmobile engine for more torque and power than a Caddy 500 without reverting to expensive cylinder heads and valvetrain. My completely rebuilt 1970 model long block with forged pistons, prerformance cam and big valve heads cost me about 2/3 the price of a Caddy engine with similar power. Oldsmobiles also have far superior factory exhaust manifolds. The W/Z manifold set I have can be ported to flow about as well as shorty headers.

You could easily install a setup like mine and paint it GM factory blue. If you put more sedate mufflers on yours (I have chambered mufflers on dual exhausts that are aggressive sounding), you could easily fool most people into believing your car is all stock.

I can run with most factory muscle cars with my setup.

P.S.
I spoke with someone from the CadCompany and they told me one of their customers DID put a 500 in a Seville but it took quite a bit of work.

NickJ
08-16-04, 07:46 PM
well, i just purchased a 74 eldorado for 200 bux with a 500 in it so the task is set. now what all do i have to convert to make it bolt right in like it belongs there to start? also what would it take to make this 500 perform like the 70 eldo that everyone talks about? is there any certain exhaust manifolds that are for a rear wheel drive that flow better than others? and what about intakes, are there any differences in them all?

thanks again,
Nick J

lux hauler
08-16-04, 08:32 PM
I don't know anything about the chassis on those cars so I can't help you with the install.

The '74 500 should have open chamber heads (120cc's) with casting numbers ending in either 552 or 493......probably 493. The '70 500 had better flowing heads and higher compression. Do you plan to rebuild the engine? If not, don't worry about trying to make the '74 like the '70. Just swap it in as is......it should run good as is.

You will need either manifolds from a '68-'76 472/500 rwd car or some headers.

EastOfGratiot
08-16-04, 08:58 PM
You have a long road to travel, best of luck. I would start your project by doing some research on motor mounts for the late 1970's full size Cadillacs. Since the used the 425 early on with an option for the 350 Olds diesel, you might be able to compare the frame mounts and either adapt the 425 subframe munts to your front lower crossmember or at least use the two to fabricate your own mounts.

Doesn't the Eldorado have an oddball oil pan? I think you'll need to replace it. I would search real hard for someone who has done the swap. As I mentioned in my post, One of the expert Caddy 500 builders said that there was a regular member of their forum who was running a 500 in their Seville.

I still think there are far easier and more affordable ways to go faster AND look more like stock, but if you have the passion to complete your project go for it.

davesdeville
08-17-04, 10:16 PM
http://hometown.aol.com/wadewmbryant/455.html

You can build a 455 Oldsmobile engine for more torque and power than a Caddy 500 without reverting to expensive cylinder heads and valvetrain. My completely rebuilt 1970 model long block with forged pistons, prerformance cam and big valve heads cost me about 2/3 the price of a Caddy engine with similar power.

How much power are you making and how much did it cost you?

EastOfGratiot
08-22-04, 08:51 PM
My engine was built to duplicate a known combo for approximately 400HP and 520 lb/ft of torque. My rebuilt 1970 longblock with big-valve E heads (same as 442 and Hurst Olds) cost me $1950.00 complete. It included new valves,springs,performance cam/lifters,forged pistons, nodular crank,reconditioned/balanced stock forged rods,and original intake and oil pan. I spent another $500 on a Performer RPM Quadrajet carb, $400 on used Olds W/Z manifolds (admittedly not cheap),and splurged on a polished Edelbrock Performer 455 manifild ($400). I upgraded to a 7 Qt. Milodon pan and pump ($300). All the other accessories were re-used from my old Seville 350.

When I was shopping for a Caddy 500 V8, I was put off by the cost of valvetrain upgrade, and connecting rods. Maybe these items do not NEED upgraded for 400/520 net HP/torque, but the thought of not upgrading these items concerned me. Aftermarket forged pistons, intakes, and camshafts are not as cheap as Olds parts either. More importantly, the Olds 455 was MUCH more suitable to my car since it already had an Olds engine in it, so I could reuse all the other parts like accessories, flywheel, distributor, starter, etc. that can easily add up to a thousand dollars.

I'm not saying the big block Caddy engines are not a reasonably affordable way to make decent power, but I think the Olds big block has a slight edge in the performance range I wanted. The scales tip heavily in favor of the Olds for Seville engine swaps though.

If you have a formula for affordable Caddy power, I am interested. I would love to build one some day.

davesdeville
08-23-04, 04:04 AM
I was just curious about the Olds engine. As for 400hp with a 500, that should be pretty cheap too. Edelbrock intake, cam, headers, and big valved heads should get there. Prices in order are around $250, $250, $125 and way up, Flash sells heads for $1400 but it shouldn't cost much over $750 to get done. Start with a high compression early 500 and end up with 20 more hp. Great if 400-430 or so HP and around 550ft.lbs. is all you're looking for.

Your Olds motor has the advantage of forged pistons and rods so if you're looking to go higher that's a good thing. Forged pistons and rods for a 500 will run around $1k, then again if your goals are under 500hp cast will be fine. The valvetrain's is the weakest link, but it will live fine up to a point.