: LS9 internal in LSA?



caddynoob
01-28-10, 05:32 PM
While the LS9 and LSA are closely related, there are some major differences.

- Dry vs. wet sump
- Different supercharger capacity (1.9 vs 2.1)
- Only 25% shared internal component?

Personally I don't think upgrading to a dry sump setup is worth the trouble. We have seen LS9 supercharger swap on the LSA with great results. While the LSA internal seems to be holding up well, will it be beneficial to upgrade to LS9 internal? In theory, the durability of the motor will be improved. Will the engine also rev quicker assuming lighter internal components?

What's your opinion on this?

Ross L
01-28-10, 06:18 PM
just read a LS9 article where they swaped the "dry sump" over to a "wet sump" and made more hp:eek:(about 14 if I remember but don't quote me). Thats all I have
Ross

Prof
01-28-10, 08:45 PM
I think the internals of the LSA are fine for normal spirited driving.

The forged internals do save some weight and are capable of withstanding more pressure and temperature...

But I don't think adding them will improve the life of the LSA engine. It will allow the engine to rev faster, and take additional boost more safely.

But unless your are going to up the boost and race the engine seriously, I don't think there will be much added benefit for a normal street application. Just my opinion...now if you are going balls to the wall...by all means start your modifications at the bottom end.

Jutskin
01-29-10, 02:14 PM
My 05 LS2 short block in my C6 makes close to 700 rw with no sweat....critical is the tune by a good tuner.
I am sure the LSA can take some significant additional abuse..safety?..it's all in the tune.
Got my 09 cts-v yesterday....yee hah.
Lingenfelter pulley/intake upgrade with a tune by my guy Arun is coming soon.
What a car.....way superior to my last 05 cts-v.

Luna.
01-29-10, 02:31 PM
We have seen LS9 supercharger swap on the LSA with great results.

We have?

I remain very suspect about those results being primarily related to the LS9 supercharger. As stated in that thread, the only way to make significantly more rwhp, in the same RPM band, is to produce significantly more rwtq & I just don't see the LS9 supercharger being vastly more efficient than the LSA supercharger, especially in that RPM band.

I think it's biggest benefit is simply that it's capable of flowing more air if you push it harder. But in order to do that, you're probably looking at making significant changes to the LSA engine.

I think you'll be vastly disappointed in the results if you simply bolted on an LS9 supercharger and tuned it. Minimal gains for the money spent is probably what you'll get.

In my mind, the weakest link, by far, is the pistons and you'll be able to push the LSA to its limit with ease using the existing supercharger.

If someone really wanted to go through all the effort to make an LSA really work with an LS9 supercharger and do all the internals and such, let me ask this question: Why not just sell the LSA that is in the car and go purchase an LS9 engine? I'm willing to bet that by the time you get done with all the mods to the LSA, you're probably in the ballpark of an LS9 anyways (net of the dollars sold from the LSA, of course).




While the LSA internal seems to be holding up well, will it be beneficial to upgrade to LS9 internal?

This question was asked over a year ago and I'm still not sure if I've heard a solid answer. If memory serves, Jesse said that you CAN use the LS9 internals in an LSA, but when I specifically asked about that to two other installers, I was informed that this was NOT the case and that I'd have issues running the LS9, say, pistons, in my existing LSA engine.

Prof
01-29-10, 04:24 PM
I have heard from a tech that the pistons in the LS9 are suspect...at least the most suspect of all of the components...if someone were to build an LSA from the bottom up, there are much better mains, rods and pistons in the aftermarket. But the comment above of just replacing the LSA with an LS9 is very practical and interesting to say the least!

Luna.
01-29-10, 04:33 PM
I have heard from a tech that the pistons in the LS9 are suspect...at least the most suspect of all of the components...if someone were to build an LSA from the bottom up, there are much better mains, rods and pistons in the aftermarket. But the comment above of just replacing the LSA with an LS9 is very practical and interesting to say the least!

This is a situation where I almost wish I didn't purchase my '09 so "fast." Sometimes, it's better to let others blaze a path to follow... :)

I actually asked the question way back when about installing an LS9 into a '09 V, but I don't recall that being answered specifically and it made sense...no one had done it/had good information yet. It seems nowadays that it wouldn't be that big a deal.

As such, I'm almost kicking myself for not strongly considering that route. I'd still proudly say that the motor is "new," even if it had a whopping ~20 miles on it or so & I've come close to spending the difference in mods anyways (granted, I'd still be out of pocket more $$$, as I'd have to mod the LS9... :D)

In any case, it's still something I ponder, but I'm leaning towards leaving it alone, as I'm thinking the engine is still pretty reliable and I should get years and years out of it before it goes kaput. And by that time, I'm certain there will be some other engine I'll want to drop in there, if not just get the newest V anyways, so... :thumbsup:

Prof
01-29-10, 04:48 PM
I am contemplating a short trip to Lingenfelter this spring...for a little freshening-up...they have a $2500 mild package that includes CAI, Pulley, re-tune...just seems to be a normal safe progression...for a daily driver...

Jutskin
01-29-10, 06:02 PM
I am contemplating a short trip to Lingenfelter this spring...for a little freshening-up...they have a $2500 mild package that includes CAI, Pulley, re-tune...just seems to be a normal safe progression...for a daily driver...

Good plan...similar to mine except we are fortunate enough to have one of the best well known tuners in North america amongst blown vette owners almost in my backyard...and a buddy..
Less than $600.00 buys the pulley intake kit from ligenfelter....another $50 buys the K&N filter. Tune & dyno session locally here is about $500.00.
That's my plan if my tuner is comfortable with the V....there are many variables and he is cool enough to say when he is uncomfortable.
The lingenfelter $2500 package is a good one.....safe and it adds 75 or 80 whp.....yeehah.
Again I have beaten the crap (drag racing as well) out of my stock LS2 bottom end in my 05 C6....it's all about a safe tune. The LSA I bet has a stronger bottom end than an LS2 so I know all is good I bet to at least 700RW. Have not looked into the actual components of the LSA rotating assembly... but I know the LS2 has cast pistons which is it's weakest link in a blown motor. just my $0.02.
Bought the V on a whim on Tuesday :cookoo: so I have to do my homework
on the LSA.
Cool forum....look forward to more threads and I will always post my results...that is what we need more of from all of us to make us all faster.
cheers.

Jutskin
01-29-10, 06:11 PM
ooops.

Gary Wells
01-29-10, 07:07 PM
Jutskin:
Welcome to the forum & congratulations on the new CTS-V.

Luna.
01-29-10, 08:11 PM
Again I have beaten the crap (drag racing as well) out of my stock LS2 bottom end in my 05 C6....it's all about a safe tune. The LSA I bet has a stronger bottom end than an LS2 so I know all is good I bet to at least 700RW. Have not looked into the actual components of the LSA rotating assembly... but I know the LS2 has cast pistons which is it's weakest link in a blown motor. just my $0.02.


I hope you're right, as I'm nervous at ~600rwhp.

The passage of time/miles will be the ultimate test, so we'll see...

Jutskin
01-30-10, 10:37 AM
Jutskin:
Welcome to the forum & congratulations on the new CTS-V.

Thank you Gary.
Incredible ride. :cloud9: Very pleased with it.

Vlakaz
02-03-10, 03:46 PM
[QUOTE=Luna.;2133987]
I actually asked the question way back when about installing an LS9 into a '09 V, but I don't recall that being answered specifically and it made sense...no one had done it/had good information yet. It seems nowadays that it wouldn't be that big a deal.

QUOTE]

I wonder, other then the instant HP gains, what would the weight advantage be of going to the LS9 in the V. How much less if anything, does the LS9 weight?

I am curious if you could put an LS9 into an automatic V without issue.

I think you would have to put a ZR1 badge next to the V badge if someone actually made that swap ;)

Prof
02-03-10, 03:54 PM
...

I think you would have to put a ZR1 badge next to the V badge if someone actually made that swap ;)


Or maybe no badges at all...sleepers are sweet!