: New Owner: 2-3 questions, mod suggestions



jaxctv
01-24-10, 02:27 PM
I just recently took delivery of a 2009 CTS-V (automatic) from Scott at Superior (Thanks !) I'm really enjoying the car. It's lovely, comfortable, and powerful. Hats of to GM for making a winner.

I've done some searching on the forum regarding mods, and some possible quirks I've noticed about the car. I wondered if some might have a few suggestions.

I've noticed a bit of hesitancy when you push the go-pedal before full power seems to be attained. Almost feels like a bit of 'turbo-lag', though obviously not the case. I also notice the gal seems to shift a bit sluggishly in both automatic, or in manual mode. I wondered if the above is normal, and if there are any 'tweaks' out there.

I'm not a complete stranger to some mods and might consider a pulley and tune and possibly some other mild ones. As it is a daily driver, I really don't want to affect engine/tranny life or my warranty for that matter. I know some folks have strong opinions about not hiding mods. From my searching the forum, it's not clear to me if tuning the existing ECU is clearly detectable, or if obtaining an additional tuned ECU is feasible and more indetectable should I return it to stock before bringing it in for service. Also, wondered the benefits to changing the air induction and thermostat.

Thanks fellows. I'm glad to be here.

neuronbob
01-24-10, 04:03 PM
The automatic transmission is known to be a little sluggish in shifts, likely to preserve the tranny. Two things help: Driving in manual mode, which is much less sluggish once it's trained, and aftermarket transmission programming such as that offered by wait4me (search under that name and you'll find posts on the handheld tuner).

Jesse (wait4me) claims that if you flash the tune back to stock prior to going to the dealer, you are safe from detection. I'm personally still nervous about the mod as I don't want to lose warranty on my daily driver, but others swear by the handheld here.

HTH some!

Enjoy your car in good health! ....and it looks like Scott hooked another one! (he sold me my V as well).

MrPMS
01-24-10, 06:30 PM
Not trying to hijack your thread, but I'm also a new owner and have some similar questions regarding available power. I picked up a used '09 with manual transmission about 6 weeks ago. Because of road conditions I haven't driven it a lot, and when I have, I've been tip-toeing around. This weekend I had the chance to drive a bit on relatively clear roads, and to put my foot in it a few times. To be honest, I'm pretty underwhelmed by the performance. Seat of the pants, it doesn't feel like anything near 500 HP. I think my 4 cylinder Honda S2000 would give it a good run. At first I chalked it up to the hefty 4200 lbs it's lugging around, but then I noticed the boost gauge hardly registers anything at all. Full throttle in 1st gear it usually doesn't move at all. In 2nd gear it nudges up to maybe 3-4 psi. I'm thinking I have a problem, but I don't have any prior experience with the CTS-V and would appreciate insight on what I should expect. I'm at 5300 feet elevation, by the way, so that's a factor as well. I did check the serpentine belt, and it's tight. There are no unusual noises from the blower (no death rattle). Thanks.

Gary Wells
01-24-10, 07:08 PM
Don't really want to even go there, but I am thinking also that you have some problems, especially since it is a used CTS-V. I think that if the mile high altitude was the only problem and that big of a problem, we would have heard about it on the forum as there are some other members around Colorado, and I don't remember hearing of a (would it be a generic or a genetic problem) due to high altitude. I used to live in Lander, WYO, so I know that high altitude can cause some loss, but I don't think that is your sole problem. I am sure that some more experienced peeps will chime in on this. I would search out a good, reputable, tuner, even if it is out of state.

Razorecko
01-24-10, 07:20 PM
High altitude usually just downs the boost 2psi. You my unlucky sir have an underlying issue. I would recommend you take it to a solid performance shop to get it thouroghly looked over and probally dyno'd to get the same numbers. Yes you have to push a little on the gas to register boost but pressing down the accelerator in 1st girl should have you spinning all over the place

Gary Wells
01-24-10, 07:28 PM
High altitude usually just downs the boost 2psi. You my unlucky sir have an underlying issue. I would recommend you take it to a solid performance shop to get it thouroghly looked over and probally dyno'd to get the same numbers. Yes you have to push a little on the gas to register boost but pressing down the accelerator in 1st girl should have you spinning all over the place
Razor:
I've had many a "girl" spinning me all over the place in my younger year. Now it takes a CTS-V or turboBuick to do it.

MrPMS
01-24-10, 08:24 PM
Funny you should mention turbo Buick. One comparison point I have is my old Buick Grand National. Getting back to the original poster's mention of hesitation, I'm familiar with turbo lag, and although the GN had less than half the power of the CTS-V, I really wanted to have it pointed in the right direction when I nailed the throttle. The CTS-V doesn't feel that way. I'm just looking for some idea of how the power should build. If there's any lag at all, I'd expect it to be minimal, and I'd think I'd see at least 7-8 psi of boost pretty quickly. Thanks for the input.

Razorecko
01-24-10, 08:45 PM
a large fault is the drive by wire system. Worse peice of crap incorporated into current vehicle technology.

Diamond blue chris
01-24-10, 08:45 PM
Not trying to hijack your thread, but I'm also a new owner and have some similar questions regarding available power. I picked up a used '09 with manual transmission about 6 weeks ago. Because of road conditions I haven't driven it a lot, and when I have, I've been tip-toeing around. This weekend I had the chance to drive a bit on relatively clear roads, and to put my foot in it a few times. To be honest, I'm pretty underwhelmed by the performance. Seat of the pants, it doesn't feel like anything near 500 HP. I think my 4 cylinder Honda S2000 would give it a good run. At first I chalked it up to the hefty 4200 lbs it's lugging around, but then I noticed the boost gauge hardly registers anything at all. Full throttle in 1st gear it usually doesn't move at all. In 2nd gear it nudges up to maybe 3-4 psi. I'm thinking I have a problem, but I don't have any prior experience with the CTS-V and would appreciate insight on what I should expect. I'm at 5300 feet elevation, by the way, so that's a factor as well. I did check the serpentine belt, and it's tight. There are no unusual noises from the blower (no death rattle). Thanks.
There has to be something wrong that you could even think of comparing this to a Honda. I also have 2009 manual and I am blown away with the way it handles but I compare it to my C 5 which has been sitting since this has arrived. My problem is the Pilots stink looking to up grade to a better tire 7m miles and the are done.

Gary Wells
01-24-10, 08:54 PM
There has to be something wrong that you could even think of comparing this to a Honda. I also have 2009 manual and I am blown away with the way it handles but I compare it to my C 5 which has been sitting since this has arrived. My problem is the Pilots stink looking to up grade to a better tire 7m miles and the are done.Chris:
Consider yourself very fortunate. If you only got 7K miles out of the fronts, rears, or both, you had at least 6,999 miles of killer fun.
I know of someone on here, and even though it was almost all freeway miles, stretched out the factory set of michelin Pilots to 25K miles on them, and he advised that there was about 2K left on them.

Gary Wells
01-24-10, 09:04 PM
Not trying to hijack your thread, but I'm also a new owner and have some similar questions regarding available power. I picked up a used '09 with manual transmission about 6 weeks ago. Because of road conditions I haven't driven it a lot, and when I have, I've been tip-toeing around. This weekend I had the chance to drive a bit on relatively clear roads, and to put my foot in it a few times. To be honest, I'm pretty underwhelmed by the performance. Seat of the pants, it doesn't feel like anything near 500 HP. I think my 4 cylinder Honda S2000 would give it a good run. At first I chalked it up to the hefty 4200 lbs it's lugging around, but then I noticed the boost gauge hardly registers anything at all. Full throttle in 1st gear it usually doesn't move at all. In 2nd gear it nudges up to maybe 3-4 psi. I'm thinking I have a problem, but I don't have any prior experience with the CTS-V and would appreciate insight on what I should expect. I'm at 5300 feet elevation, by the way, so that's a factor as well. I did check the serpentine belt, and it's tight. There are no unusual noises from the blower (no death rattle). Thanks.
Might want to check out user name Uriel's solution to slow response and tranny shifting, but I would strongly suggest getting the car checked out throughly prior to investing any money in mods.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/190473-d3-performance-upgrades-completed.html

HTH

neuronbob
01-24-10, 09:19 PM
7k miles on the fronts? I had 7085 on my tires when I switched them out for the winter 2 1/2 months ago and the fronts looked close to brand new, and the rears looked like they had 7k miles on them. Diamond blue, you REALLY must have been having fun with your car, or had an alignment problem.

GMX322V S/C
01-25-10, 11:59 AM
Funny you should mention turbo Buick. One comparison point I have is my old Buick Grand National. Getting back to the original poster's mention of hesitation, I'm familiar with turbo lag, and although the GN had less than half the power of the CTS-V, I really wanted to have it pointed in the right direction when I nailed the throttle. The CTS-V doesn't feel that way. I'm just looking for some idea of how the power should build. If there's any lag at all, I'd expect it to be minimal, and I'd think I'd see at least 7-8 psi of boost pretty quickly. Thanks for the input.You might want to have a competent dealer service dept check the boost bypass valve operation...

wait4me
01-25-10, 12:59 PM
If you call me directly, i can answer all of your questions. The tune fixes the issues you are complaining about. There are tip in tables that pull power on fast throttle transitions, that is probably what you are referring to.

IPS Brandon
01-25-10, 01:49 PM
Not trying to hijack your thread, but I'm also a new owner and have some similar questions regarding available power. I picked up a used '09 with manual transmission about 6 weeks ago. Because of road conditions I haven't driven it a lot, and when I have, I've been tip-toeing around. This weekend I had the chance to drive a bit on relatively clear roads, and to put my foot in it a few times. To be honest, I'm pretty underwhelmed by the performance. Seat of the pants, it doesn't feel like anything near 500 HP. I think my 4 cylinder Honda S2000 would give it a good run. At first I chalked it up to the hefty 4200 lbs it's lugging around, but then I noticed the boost gauge hardly registers anything at all. Full throttle in 1st gear it usually doesn't move at all. In 2nd gear it nudges up to maybe 3-4 psi. I'm thinking I have a problem, but I don't have any prior experience with the CTS-V and would appreciate insight on what I should expect. I'm at 5300 feet elevation, by the way, so that's a factor as well. I did check the serpentine belt, and it's tight. There are no unusual noises from the blower (no death rattle). Thanks.


There is most certainly something mechanically not working properly from your description. The car should be under warranty still, so I would find a local dealer you like and try and have it inspected for this issue. Elevation and air density will effect the car moderately, but GM tests these cars under ALL circumstances, and I would not chalk* this up to elevation alone. Good luck with this.


I just recently took delivery of a 2009 CTS-V (automatic) from Scott at Superior (Thanks !) I'm really enjoying the car. It's lovely, comfortable, and powerful. Hats of to GM for making a winner.

I've done some searching on the forum regarding mods, and some possible quirks I've noticed about the car. I wondered if some might have a few suggestions.

I've noticed a bit of hesitancy when you push the go-pedal before full power seems to be attained. Almost feels like a bit of 'turbo-lag', though obviously not the case. I also notice the gal seems to shift a bit sluggishly in both automatic, or in manual mode. I wondered if the above is normal, and if there are any 'tweaks' out there.

I'm not a complete stranger to some mods and might consider a pulley and tune and possibly some other mild ones. As it is a daily driver, I really don't want to affect engine/tranny life or my warranty for that matter. I know some folks have strong opinions about not hiding mods. From my searching the forum, it's not clear to me if tuning the existing ECU is clearly detectable, or if obtaining an additional tuned ECU is feasible and more indetectable should I return it to stock before bringing it in for service. Also, wondered the benefits to changing the air induction and thermostat.

Thanks fellows. I'm glad to be here.

As for lag, there are some throttle tip in tables as Jesse mentioned that effect engine ignition timing, that can create this feeling. The transmission is also programed to be durable and has setting , line pressures, shift points, and shift timing to be somewhat slower then some may like when thinking about high performance. All of these issues can be properly addressed by professional tuners, at a dyno or performance facility.

Getting to the warranty debate, this is strictly up to you, as you mentioned it is an ethical choice. Contrary to Jesse, the dealer can tell 100% if the factory computer has been flashed, my best friend is a GM engineer whom I asked the question, and he confirmed its easily detectable. So your best bet if your very concerned is to purchase another ECU and flash that unit. Or have a good relationship with your dealer, and 9/10 they will honor your warranty to help keep you as a customer.

For modifications, the air intake and a thermostat are very good starts. The thermostat will allow the car to run cooler, enhancing the ability to run more ignition timing creating power. The air intake, depending on the unit you purchase (some of the ones we have tested make things worse...) will help create considerable increase in power. Obviously both items will work in much better unison with a proper dyno calibrated tune, or professional tune.

Good luck and if you have any questions please feel free to contact us.

Brandon
http://www.ipsmotorsports.net

MrPMS
01-25-10, 07:04 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions regarding low boost. My thinking, too, is that it's under warranty, so I've set up a trip to the dealer to see what they can do. I'm not even thinking about modifications at this point. I just want to get to a good, solid, baseline configuration for starters.

timeforav
01-25-10, 10:06 PM
Let me know how you make out. I have an appointment on Wednesday to do the exact same thing...

MrPMS
01-26-10, 08:57 PM
Let me know how you make out. I have an appointment on Wednesday to do the exact same thing...

Well, just back from wasting the afternoon at the local dealer. Not surprisingly, I guess, they found nothing wrong... everything in spec, although maybe toward the low end of spec. They said their tests showed it will develop 6 psi of boost, which is in the acceptable range. All controls check out. Their only suggestion was the Corsa mufflers may be restrictive, and I should go back to stock. Right. On the way home, as an experiment, I turned off the traction control, got it barely rolling in 1st, and nailed the throttle. No boost, and it didn't break the wheels loose. Full throttle, redline shift to 2nd, and it just chirped the tires.

For now I'm going to just park it at work and hope somebody steals it while I ponder my next move (if there's anybody from Geico here, I'm just kidding). It's a really comfortable, attractive car, and it's a real slug. I'm not sure I want to start pumping money into it to get it right, but for as much gas as it sucks I want performance in return. Gonna have to think on this for awhile, and go back to the Honda, which is a lot more fun.

MReiland
01-26-10, 09:21 PM
MrPMS, can you do us one more favor before you write it off, can you go to one of the local dealers and test drive a V off their lot to see if it is the same as how you are feeling in yours. I haven't heard many people take one out and be so underwhelmed by the power. If you can surely say that another one off the lot is night and day different I will try to help out however I can.
Matt.

Jeffrey
01-27-10, 10:56 AM
For modifications, the air intake and a thermostat are very good starts. The thermostat will allow the car to run cooler, enhancing the ability to run more ignition timing creating power. The air intake, depending on the unit you purchase (some of the ones we have tested make things worse...) will help create considerable increase in power. Obviously both items will work in much better unison with a proper dyno calibrated tune, or professional tune.

Good luck and if you have any questions please feel free to contact us.

Brandon
http://www.ipsmotorsports.net

Hi Brandon,

Which air intake do you recommend for an '09 V? How much HP increase did it dyno?

Thanks,
Jeffrey

IPS Brandon
01-27-10, 02:18 PM
Hi Brandon,

Which air intake do you recommend for an '09 V? How much HP increase did it dyno?

Thanks,
Jeffrey

Jeffrey,
We have had clients use a few different intakes now, that they supplied. We have used the hennessy intake, which fit well, had decent results, but still seemed to trap warm air into the intake charge, it also I believe has the highest price tag.

Wait4Me's from our experience had the highest intake air temps from our testing, its fitment was fine, and has a fair market price, but it did not preform very well for us.

The d3 intake seems to be one of the better unit available right now, it preformed to typical market averages, i personally didn't like the finish, but it fit well.

We are also just finishing up a new prototype that we are making for the car, which should combine many elements we have found to work well , through several hours, days, and weeks of dyno testing, and CAD testing. We are currently finishing up production fixtures, and costing analysis. Our IPS intake should be very competitive in the market from price, and far exceed performance expectations.

Regards

bouser
01-28-10, 02:33 PM
Is the trans in sport mode when starting?

Titaniumseeker
01-28-10, 02:54 PM
Jeffrey,
We have had clients use a few different intakes now, that they supplied. We have used the hennessy intake, which fit well, had decent results, but still seemed to trap warm air into the intake charge, it also I believe has the highest price tag.

Wait4Me's from our experience had the highest intake air temps from our testing, its fitment was fine, and has a fair market price, but it did not preform very well for us.

The d3 intake seems to be one of the better unit available right now, it preformed to typical market averages, i personally didn't like the finish, but it fit well.

We are also just finishing up a new prototype that we are making for the car, which should combine many elements we have found to work well , through several hours, days, and weeks of dyno testing, and CAD testing. We are currently finishing up production fixtures, and costing analysis. Our IPS intake should be very competitive in the market from price, and far exceed performance expectations.

Regards

I've had both the Hennessey and D3 intakes and I agree with your findings about the Hennessey intake. However, I found the filter on the D3 not to be adequate for our engines. While I favored the overall design of the D3 intake (Heat shield and cover), the supplied filter just seemed to be too restrictive. When tested on my vehicle running on a dynopack, it provided less air flow than the stock box. Have there been any changes to the D3 intake in the way of a larger filter? I look forward to seeing your product offering.

MrPMS
01-30-10, 10:33 PM
MrPMS, can you do us one more favor before you write it off, can you go to one of the local dealers and test drive a V off their lot to see if it is the same as how you are feeling in yours. I haven't heard many people take one out and be so underwhelmed by the power. If you can surely say that another one off the lot is night and day different I will try to help out however I can.
Matt.

To see if my seat-of-the-pants impressions were off-base, I put the car on a dyno today. Sure enough, boost is limited to 3.5 psi and RWHP=375. The other thing we noticed is it's fairly lean. One theory we were kicking around is the stock tune is lean to start with, and the Corsa axle-back exhaust leaned it out even more, causing the ECU to compensate by limiting boost. However, I'm at a mile high elevation, so the more I think about it, the more I struggle with how just mufflers could make this much difference. If they did, you guys near sea level would really be in trouble. Not sure what to do next. I suspect GM won't want to do much as long as it has the Corsa exhaust, but I'm not convinced that an aftermarket tune is all that's needed.

neuronbob
01-31-10, 12:54 AM
I have your setup, with Corsa axleback. I put out 471 to the wheels (Dynajet dyno). The dyno was at about 800 ft altitude. The Corsas ADDED whp as I would expect around 450-460 whp stock. I do not notice any limitation in boost.

375 whp? Even at 5280 feet, that seems low. I don't think the mufflers have anything to do with it. I'd take the suggestions above: a) try another V on the dealer's lot, or b) try another dealer for a second opinion. Something is definitely wrong with your car, perhaps the SC?

BTW, I have an S2000 as well (and I'm from Colorado, to boot! I'm originally from the Springs....). I can hardly wait to take her from under the car cover in the spring. Any case, the power in the V should be OVERWHELMINGLY obvious compared to the S2000, the fact that it's not right away indicates something is wrong with your V.

Edit: This is my dyno sheet. This is what yours should look like with the Corsas:
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6742/ctsvdyno090909.jpg

MrPMS
01-31-10, 01:14 AM
[QUOTE=anonfrank;2135049]I have your setup, with Corsa axleback. I put out 471 to the wheels (Dynajet dyno). The dyno was at about 800 ft altitude. The Corsas ADDED whp as I would expect around 450-460 whp stock. I do not notice any limitation in boost.

Thanks. As I've mulled this over today, I really started to think there has to be something more basic wrong, and your experience helps confirm that. Matt Reiland has been great in offering advice, and on his suggestion I'll be calling GM on Monday to get this escalated and see if I can get a local dealer to take a serious look.

Gary Wells
01-31-10, 08:54 AM
Don't really want to even go there, but I am thinking also that you have some problems, especially since it is a used CTS-V. I think that if the mile high altitude was the only problem and that big of a problem, we would have heard about it on the forum as there are some other members around Colorado, and I don't remember hearing of a (would it be a generic or a genetic problem) due to high altitude. I used to live in Lander, WYO, so I know that high altitude can cause some loss, but I don't think that is your sole problem. I am sure that some more experienced peeps will chime in on this. I would search out a good, reputable, tuner, even if it is out of state.
MrPMS:
I just re-read my suggestion above that I posted a ways back and I see how it could easily be misinterpreted. When I stated "tuner", I meant only to verify that your car is performing compared to the norm. I am happy to hear that you are taking Matt's suggestion about getting with GM on this.
FWIW, the Corsa axlebacks in touring have been dyno-proven by D3 for either 16 or 18 RWHP & I believe an approximate gain in RWTQ. HTH

Jutskin
01-31-10, 11:43 AM
There is most certainly something mechanically not working properly from your description. The car should be under warranty still, so I would find a local dealer you like and try and have it inspected for this issue. Elevation and air density will effect the car moderately, but GM tests these cars under ALL circumstances, and I would not chalk* this up to elevation alone. Good luck with this.



As for lag, there are some throttle tip in tables as Jesse mentioned that effect engine ignition timing, that can create this feeling. The transmission is also programed to be durable and has setting , line pressures, shift points, and shift timing to be somewhat slower then some may like when thinking about high performance. All of these issues can be properly addressed by professional tuners, at a dyno or performance facility.

Getting to the warranty debate, this is strictly up to you, as you mentioned it is an ethical choice. Contrary to Jesse, the dealer can tell 100% if the factory computer has been flashed, my best friend is a GM engineer whom I asked the question, and he confirmed its easily detectable. So your best bet if your very concerned is to purchase another ECU and flash that unit. Or have a good relationship with your dealer, and 9/10 they will honor your warranty to help keep you as a customer.

For modifications, the air intake and a thermostat are very good starts. The thermostat will allow the car to run cooler, enhancing the ability to run more ignition timing creating power. The air intake, depending on the unit you purchase (some of the ones we have tested make things worse...) will help create considerable increase in power. Obviously both items will work in much better unison with a proper dyno calibrated tune, or professional tune.

Good luck and if you have any questions please feel free to contact us.

Brandon
http://www.ipsmotorsports.net

Hey Brandon,

Look forward to looking into your intake when ready....have already looked closely at your pulley upgrade that you recently introduced for the V.
Arun up here in Toronto will be doing my tune so I know I am in good hands.

The welds you sent me last month for my C6 are extraordinary.
Just got the V this week....we will be in touch.

Canadian Chris

To all members here trust IPS to be an empathetic/qualified vendor...have dealt with them a few times and they are top shelf.

Razorecko
01-31-10, 01:01 PM
Like I said about the dyno being the only way to determine how much power you are making. How many miles does your V have ? Also my theory is that maybe the isolator issue somehow fubard the sc. I can imagine the original owner felt over time the V making little or now power, and without any cel's and 99% of all dealers lack of willingness to do anything about an "underpowered" V the owner probaly dumped it very quickly. Unluckily it landed into your hands MR.

Gary Wells
01-31-10, 04:02 PM
Like I said about the dyno being the only way to determine how much power you are making. How many miles does your V have ? Also my theory is that maybe the isolator issue somehow fubard the sc. I can imagine the original owner felt over time the V making little or now power, and without any cel's and 99% of all dealers lack of willingness to do anything about an "underpowered" V the owner probaly dumped it very quickly. Unluckily it landed into your hands MR.

My guess would be almost the same. I think that this will be similar and / or
same as the previous post regarding low power, and that a particular switch, lever, or whatever it was was tripped and not replaced to the correct position. I also think that Jesse had some input on the previous post / thread regarding same. I would bet that the previous owner has / had knowledge of this issue, and sold it rather than having it repaired. Does the supercharger have any indication of ever being removed / repaired prior to your buying the car?

Prof
01-31-10, 04:37 PM
Well, just back from wasting the afternoon at the local dealer. Not surprisingly, I guess, they found nothing wrong... everything in spec, although maybe toward the low end of spec. They said their tests showed it will develop 6 psi of boost, which is in the acceptable range. All controls check out. Their only suggestion was the Corsa mufflers may be restrictive, and I should go back to stock. Right. On the way home, as an experiment, I turned off the traction control, got it barely rolling in 1st, and nailed the throttle. No boost, and it didn't break the wheels loose. Full throttle, redline shift to 2nd, and it just chirped the tires.

For now I'm going to just park it at work and hope somebody steals it while I ponder my next move (if there's anybody from Geico here, I'm just kidding). It's a really comfortable, attractive car, and it's a real slug. I'm not sure I want to start pumping money into it to get it right, but for as much gas as it sucks I want performance in return. Gonna have to think on this for awhile, and go back to the Honda, which is a lot more fun.

Go to a different dealer...your V is just not right.

And we need to know the names of the dealerships.

Gary Wells
01-31-10, 04:57 PM
I just looked for that post / thread regarding another underpowered V and could not locate it. It was probably not under it's own thread heading and therefore difficult to locate. Jesse Bubb (wait4me) might remember the issue and be able to confirm the resolution. I believe that it had something to do with the supercharger being removed and a cable, lever, or switch accidently being moved, not noticed, and then the supercharger being buttoned back up. I believe that peep also had trouble finding a dealer that was capable of discovering the issue / problem. I hope that somebody on here with a better memory than mine (that would be virtually anybody else) remembers the thread / post / location. HTH

Jutskin
01-31-10, 04:59 PM
I hope you guys find what is wrong....are you shutting all traction control systems down when given her?
I know you probably are...just checking.

MrPMS
01-31-10, 05:05 PM
My guess would be almost the same. I think that this will be similar and / or
same as the previous post regarding low power, and that a particular switch, lever, or whatever it was was tripped and not replaced to the correct position. I also think that Jesse had some input on the previous post / thread regarding same. I would bet that the previous owner has / had knowledge of this issue, and sold it rather than having it repaired. Does the supercharger have any indication of ever being removed / repaired prior to your buying the car?

The car had 5000 miles on it when I got it. There are no signs the supercharger has been touched. The previous owner seemed to know very little about the car, or cars in general. When I asked, he didn't know if the "Corsica" exhaust was cat-back or axle-back. I suspect it could have been in this state for some time without his even realizing it. Puny power may be one reason he got rid of it, but I really doubt he even recognized there was a boost problem.

Thanks for all the support and suggestions. I start down the road with GM and the local dealer again tomorrow.

GMX322V S/C
01-31-10, 05:12 PM
I just looked for that post / thread regarding another underpowered V and could not locate it. It was probably not under it's own thread heading and therefore difficult to locate. Jesse Bubb (wait4me) might remember the issue and be able to confirm the resolution. I believe that it had something to do with the supercharger being removed and a cable, lever, or switch accidently being moved, not noticed, and then the supercharger being buttoned back up. I believe that peep also had trouble finding a dealer that was capable of discovering the issue / problem. I hope that somebody on here with a better memory than mine (that would be virtually anybody else) remembers the thread / post / location. HTHIt was an STS-V; turned out to be the boost bypass valve, which is why I mentioned it in an earlier post...

Gary Wells
01-31-10, 05:51 PM
It was an STS-V; turned out to be the boost bypass valve, which is why I mentioned it in an earlier post...

Thanks, Mas, I didn't remember it being you. Could that possibly be this poster's problem also?

MrPMS
01-31-10, 07:40 PM
It was an STS-V; turned out to be the boost bypass valve, which is why I mentioned it in an earlier post...

This is something we discussed as we had the car on the dyno. It really appears not that the supercharger isn't working, but that there's a hard limit at 3.5 psi. It seems to get to 3.5 just fine, but stops there abruptly and consistently. Let me correct something I mentioned earlier. The guys doing the dyno test at Corvette Connection told me it went pretty lean. I don't have the dyno graphs yet because they were having printer problems, but I had them email me the raw numbers. It actually got progressively richer. Need to talk to these Corvette experts about their analysis! :) It started at 14.96:1 at idle, and went to 12.56:1 at 6k RPM. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these numbers don't look too bad to me. 12.56:1 might be a tad rich, but it was around 12.8:1 or more below 5500 RPM. This makes me feel a lot better. I was concerned about what could be causing not only low boost, but a lean condition. Now I think I'm only dealing with a boost problem, and likely just some control, such as the bypass valve.

By the way, the local dealer I went to is McCaddon in Boulder, CO. There are 4 Cadillac dealers in the Denver/Boulder area, so I have other choices. However, I have no experience with any of them, so it's a crap shoot.

GMX322V S/C
01-31-10, 08:22 PM
Thanks, Mas, I didn't remember it being you. Could that possibly be this poster's problem also?Just a guess on my part Gary; while the N* and LSA are completely different engines, I figure there's got to be some similarities between their boost control systems; when the blower is directly driven by the crankshaft, one would expect the boost pressure to be a somewhat linear function of the crankshaft speed--yet it isn't; there's obviously some bypass going on during part-throttle lower-speed operations and max boost is achieved (and flat-tops) well below redline--so I figure something has to be regulating and "smoothing" it...

MrPMS
02-02-10, 11:54 PM
Here's the latest on my low boost/low HP problem... Thanks again to Matt Reiland for all his help. He's been really responsive and has given me sound advice to escalate the problem. GM is now involved, and the car is back at the dealer for a second look. However, in the meantime Matt got the following from one of the lead CTS-V engineers. This is pretty discouraging:

"Matt,
Sorry for long response time - key people I conferred with are quite busy. The following explains how the supercharger system works and why the customer is seeing the lower boost levels on the gauge.

"As our supercharger is a delta-P device, it will take whatever inlet pressure is and increase it by a set amount (dictated by supercharger pulley ratio). At elevation, delta-P will remain the same, but overall pressure will be same amount lower as atmospheric conditions. So - this maybe correct for elevation he is operating in. Bottom line, unlike turbos that can develop same manifold pressure at elevation (although it takes longer since delta-P is greater), our superchargers do not altitude compensate and make same boost pressure at elevations. We set reference to atmospheric pressure, so boost is shown relative to that. Therefore at altitude, a reading of 3-4 psig is correct. And power will also reflect this lower boost level. With current gauge settings, boost gauge shows boost level relative to what engine was SAE rated to. So an increase in altitude (resulting in loss of boost pressure available) will be reflected in dyno pulls and displayed boost pressure to accurately reflect actual power delivered. If this customer took his car to a chassis dyno and is showing about 50-60 hp less that others at lower elevations (well within expectations given his elevation). Nothing wrong with the car - just what we'd expect. Boost gauge shows his relative boost for his elevation as well."

I certainly have to respect what one of the car's engineers has to say, but I feel it's down at least 40-50 HP from the low end of acceptable. I think I could live with a 50-60 HP loss due to elevation, which would put it at maybe 425 or so. I also have a hard time accepting 3-4 PSI max boost. At that level I'd think the supercharger is hardly producing enough power to compensate for the loss it creates. If this truly is expected performance at this elevation, then this car pays too big a penalty for its weight. I notice much less degradation in performance from my lower power, lighter weight cars. Very disappointing, and probably the end of my brief CTS-V experiment.

Gary Wells
02-03-10, 05:32 AM
Not to disagree with any of GM's Engineering staff, nor Matt Reiland, but I would not throw in the towel quite yet, as it has already been stated by one '09 CTS-V owner on here that he is only down about 2 or 2.5 lbs and he lives in the same area as you, and one other peep noted that he thought that about a 2 or 2.5 lb. loss was typical for your altitude. I would also probably be discouraged, but I wouldn't give up the ship just yet.

Prof
02-03-10, 09:24 AM
Engineers have a way of building in broad tolerances for a lot of very good reasons, not all of which are engineering based. For instance the oil burning tolerance ("within expected tolerance") for my Viper engine is a quart every 500 miles. Well if it burned a quart every 500 miles I would be preparing to rebuild...so I concur in the idea of continuing to pursue a cause.

Hope you find a simple solution...soon.

Vrocks
02-03-10, 10:28 AM
You really need to get numbers from another V in your area. If the other V is like yours then you'll probably need to mod the car to get to the power level it should be making. A 9" pulley is <$1,000 and adds around 2-3psi, and the install takes around an hour. That should add around 20-30whp on a stock tune.

Mazz
02-03-10, 10:47 AM
On the way home, as an experiment, I turned off the traction control, got it barely rolling in 1st, and nailed the throttle. No boost, and it didn't break the wheels loose. Full throttle, redline shift to 2nd, and it just chirped the tires.



regarding the no boost , i'v been through something similar with my 08 sts-v and after 6 visits to the dealership and a replaced supercharger bypass valve i found out that adding a little more coolent to the supercharger (not the engine radiator) got my boost almost all the way up from 50% boost to 80% + , i wonder how the dealership didnt check out the fluids :hmm: :bonkers:

jesse@W4M
im sorry but your tunes reduced my cars power :confused: , even after replacing the supercharger bypass valve the boost guage only hits 50% and nothing more.
yes the trans tune is felt and is working better than factory :thumbsup: but what good is a trans tune with reduced power. now how do i send it back to you for an updated tune?

MrPMS
02-03-10, 09:05 PM
Not to disagree with any of GM's Engineering staff, nor Matt Reiland, but I would not throw in the towel quite yet, as it has already been stated by one '09 CTS-V owner on here that he is only down about 2 or 2.5 lbs and he lives in the same area as you, and one other peep noted that he thought that about a 2 or 2.5 lb. loss was typical for your altitude. I would also probably be discouraged, but I wouldn't give up the ship just yet.

Sorry, I get frustrated, I vent, I take a few deep breaths... thanks for the encouragement. I haven't thrown in the towel just yet. I stopped by Corvette Connection to pick up the printouts from the dyno session last weekend, and they mentioned they'd just been contacted by another '09 CTS-V owner who wants them to price a Hennessy upgrade for him. They're going to see if they can get some comparison boost readings from him. Also, the dealer called today and said GM wants them to locate another car for comparison. If I can get them to see and acknowledge there's a problem that will be a big step in the right direction. In the end I may be looking at some mods to compensate for the altitude, but I want to be sure I have a solid baseline platform first.

MrPMS
02-03-10, 09:14 PM
You really need to get numbers from another V in your area. If the other V is like yours then you'll probably need to mod the car to get to the power level it should be making. A 9" pulley is <$1,000 and adds around 2-3psi, and the install takes around an hour. That should add around 20-30whp on a stock tune.

I'm considering this, and maybe a few other mods, once I'm satisfied there isn't a problem that needs to be resolved. One thing I'm curious about with the larger crank pulley... in addition to overdriving the blower, the power steering pump and alternator are also being spun faster. Is that of no concern? Is the difference there negligible?

Gary Wells
02-03-10, 09:18 PM
Sorry, I get frustrated, I vent, I take a few deep breaths... thanks for the encouragement. I haven't thrown in the towel just yet. I stopped by Corvette Connection to pick up the printouts from the dyno session last weekend, and they mentioned they'd just been contacted by another '09 CTS-V owner who wants them to price a Hennessy upgrade for him. They're going to see if they can get some comparison boost readings from him. Also, the dealer called today and said GM wants them to locate another car for comparison. If I can get them to see and acknowledge there's a problem that will be a big step in the right direction. In the end I may be looking at some mods to compensate for the altitude, but I want to be sure I have a solid baseline platform first.

Everybody on the forum is here to help, whether it's by listening, offering advice, being a sounding board, whatever it takes. I can only imagine how frustrating this would be. You might want to check the thread currently running asking for people's locations and find anybody in your area. Might want to check in the regional posting area sections. Do a search under "Denver". There's got to be at least a few '09 & up CTS-V's in your area. And I would not put any $$ into that car in mods until you are sure in your own mind that everything is correct. I am sure that we're all hoping for your success in this issue.

GMX322V S/C
02-03-10, 09:18 PM
The lower pulley has 3 separate "tracks"; the supercharger is on its own track--the diameter of this track is increased while the others remain the same.

Gary Wells
02-03-10, 09:32 PM
I'm considering this, and maybe a few other mods, once I'm satisfied there isn't a problem that needs to be resolved. One thing I'm curious about with the larger crank pulley... in addition to overdriving the blower, the power steering pump and alternator are also being spun faster. Is that of no concern? Is the difference there negligible?
I think that this has been asked before and I think that the response was that the power steering pump and the alternator do not spin any faster.

Gary Wells
02-03-10, 09:42 PM
Here's a guy in Littleton, CO with a CST-V '09

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/187993-what-other-exhaust-choices-there-2.html#post2100229

MrPMS
02-04-10, 10:08 PM
The lower pulley has 3 separate "tracks"; the supercharger is on its own track--the diameter of this track is increased while the others remain the same.

Thanks. I need to look closer when I get the car back from the dealer again. I thought it was a single serpentine belt driving the supercharger, power steering pump, and alternator. It may be moot. I'm making no progress with getting my low boost problem resolved, and I'm not making any mods while there's an existing problem.

MrPMS
02-06-10, 02:20 PM
Here's a guy in Littleton, CO with a CST-V '09

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/187993-what-other-exhaust-choices-there-2.html#post2100229

Gary, thanks for the pointer. I met up with Jim in Littleton this morning and we drove each other's cars. There is no comparison. His makes about 7-8 psi boost and feels the way it should. Now in addition to the dyno I have a second opinion and my own seat of the pants impressions from a properly performing V. Thanks, Jim.

I just completed my second wasted visit to McCaddon yesterday. GM told them not to do anything because they told GM the car is making 7 psi boost, even though anyone driving the car can easily see that's not the case. They've even stipulated that the boost gauge in the car is accurate, but they have some twisted logic that 3=7, I guess. They continue to stick to their story that there's nothing wrong, but if there was, it would be because of the Corsa exhaust. I'll talk to GM again on Monday and see if I can find a service department that has a clue about superchargers.

Gary Wells
02-06-10, 03:10 PM
Gary, thanks for the pointer. I met up with Jim in Littleton this morning and we drove each other's cars. There is no comparison. His makes about 7-8 psi boost and feels the way it should. Now in addition to the dyno I have a second opinion and my own seat of the pants impressions from a properly performing V. Thanks, Jim.

I just completed my second wasted visit to McCaddon yesterday. GM told them not to do anything because they told GM the car is making 7 psi boost, even though anyone driving the car can easily see that's not the case. They've even stipulated that the boost gauge in the car is accurate, but they have some twisted logic that 3=7, I guess. They continue to stick to their story that there's nothing wrong, but if there was, it would be because of the Corsa exhaust. I'll talk to GM again on Monday and see if I can find a service department that has a clue about superchargers.

Paul:
Only my opinion, but I wouldn't even bother with another trip to a dealer yet. If they (that dealer) aren't competent enough to identify a problem, then they aren't competent enough to arrive at and validate a solution.
I know that money is tight everywhere, but if it were me,I would seriously consider offering to either pay for a dyno baseline run (3 runs) for both of you guys' cars, have everything documented by the dyno operator and / or your selves, and go from there. I would also have the dyno operator / performance shop add another vacuum / boost gage to verify that both boost gages are somewhat accurate. You might get lucky and find a dyno shop that has already dynoed a bone stock '09 CTS-V and get a copy of that dyno chart also. Then I would send copies, not originals, of all documentation & charts to Matt Reiland and pray that GM does a re-think on their previous decision.
HTH, sorry for the long post. Old farts can't help rambling.

orangegrower
02-06-10, 03:11 PM
Gary, thanks for the pointer. I met up with Jim in Littleton this morning and we drove each other's cars. There is no comparison. His makes about 7-8 psi boost and feels the way it should. Now in addition to the dyno I have a second opinion and my own seat of the pants impressions from a properly performing V. Thanks, Jim.

I just completed my second wasted visit to McCaddon yesterday. GM told them not to do anything because they told GM the car is making 7 psi boost, even though anyone driving the car can easily see that's not the case. They've even stipulated that the boost gauge in the car is accurate, but they have some twisted logic that 3=7, I guess. They continue to stick to their story that there's nothing wrong, but if there was, it would be because of the Corsa exhaust. I'll talk to GM again on Monday and see if I can find a service department that has a clue about superchargers.

I feel your frustration but you must feel relieved to now know your car does indeed have a problem. Now you just need to find a competent dealer who can find and fix it. This is the most interesting thread on the forum. We all feel your pain and are routing for you.

Gary Wells
02-06-10, 03:21 PM
Paul:
Have you gone back through the vehicle's previous history?
If not, have you approached either GM, a GM dealer that you trust, or Matt Reiland to see if they can get you a written printed copy of the vehicles previous visits to the dealers and any repair / replacement history. I would start looking there also.

MReiland
02-06-10, 03:39 PM
Paul:
Have you gone back through the vehicle's previous history?
If not, have you approached either GM, a GM dealer that you trust, or Matt Reiland to see if they can get you a written printed copy of the vehicles previous visits to the dealers and any repair / replacement history. I would start looking there also.

Just remember Gary, I can't work miracles, I have the ability to escalate claims and with a system GM put in place. I will keep working with Paul though to see what can be done for him. Carfax should list the vehicles history if it went to dealers for service I believe.

Gary Wells
02-06-10, 04:25 PM
Just remember Gary, I can't work miracles, I have the ability to escalate claims and with a system GM put in place. I will keep working with Paul though to see what can be done for him. Carfax should list the vehicles history if it went to dealers for service I believe.
Matt:
I realize that you are probably spending your own time and are acting somewhat as a "devil's Advocate" in most of these situations, and have been an invaluable assistance and breakthrough in a normally laden with red tape scenario, and i don't think that there is anybody on board that is not aware of it.
Can paul just go to any GM dealer and request a history of that particular vehicle?
Not to be disagreeable, but Carfax is, well, Carfax.
Just a thought, Matt, and I know that you can be relied upon to assist us when you can.

Gary Wells
02-06-10, 04:30 PM
Paul:
I will keep my eyes open over on TurboBuick.com and see if anybody is currently offering up "free Carfaxes". Every now and then, somebody signs up for unlimited Carfax checks for a month while they are pursuing a car, and they generally offer to check out carfaxes for members for free. HTH

neuronbob
02-10-10, 10:56 PM
Any update? I'm so glad you now have documented evidence of a problem with the car. I hope you can find resolution through GM.

MrPMS
02-11-10, 07:16 AM
Any update? I'm so glad you now have documented evidence of a problem with the car. I hope you can find resolution through GM.

Thanks, everyone, for the interest and encouragement. Matt has been a big help. He's escalated within GM, so I have a case open there, and now have someone from the "Executive Offices" tracking it. Jim, whom I met to do a back-to-back comparison with his car, recommended Rickenbaugh Cadillac in Denver. I dropped the car off there last evening. The service advisor seemed to be a lot more interested in the problem, and wasn't the least bit interested in pointing at the Corsa exhaust as an excuse. I provided him with the dyno graphs, etc. We'll see how it goes. I have my fingers crossed. I really want to get this resolved, because I like the car otherwise, and want to start enjoying it!

Tedboss1
02-11-10, 11:19 AM
MrPMS
If you pm me with your VIN I will check Carfax for you.

Mike 09 V
02-11-10, 11:51 AM
Have you checked your gas? This may sound dumb, but my car pulled power when the knock sensors activated, and one of the symptoms was the mixture got richer. The dyno guys (PSR in Phoenix) had all that on the graph and suggested that I try a different brand. Denver is high up and so a knock would be more likely to start with, so bad gas would bring it on sooner. Or I could be FOS. I don't know if bad gas will affect the boost though, somebody else will have to answer that question.
Another thought-if there is a boost bypass valve then it would have to dump the air that the pump is making somewhere, so you might be able to hear or feel it if that is the issue, anyway, talking through my hat now. Good luck.

2manycars
02-11-10, 06:51 PM
Subscribed

sirjames
02-14-10, 08:10 PM
Paul,

BTW, ask Steve (at Rickenbaugh Cadillac) for the entire service history on your car. He did that for my '05 V and I could see everything that was ever done to the car. Anxious to hear what you find out. Call me if you need me.

Jim

MrPMS
02-17-10, 12:54 AM
You might want to have a competent dealer service dept check the boost bypass valve operation...

You win the prize. Steve and Rickenbaugh dug in and found the problem... bad boost bypass solenoid and actuator. McCaddon had pronounced these tested and good. McCaddon also told GM they were seeing 7 PSI boost, which was flat wrong. McCaddon gets an F- for lack of effort; I think they really weren't interested in working on the problem, and just wanted to get back to oil changes and tire rotations. Big thanks to Matt R. for keeping GM involved, and to Jim for letting me drive his car, and for pointing me to Rickenbaugh. And thanks to everyone here for the encouragement and suggestions. BTW, Ted pulled the Carfax report and there's no evidence of any previous repairs. I really think it could have been this way for a very long time, possibly from day one, and the previous owner didn't realize it. He told me he didn't like the car, and I suspect the mediocre performance was a factor.

orangegrower
02-17-10, 01:03 AM
You win the prize. Steve and Rickenbaugh dug in and found the problem... bad boost bypass solenoid and actuator. McCaddon had pronounced these tested and good. McCaddon also told GM they were seeing 7 PSI boost, which was flat wrong. McCaddon gets an F- for lack of effort; I think they really weren't interested in working on the problem, and just wanted to get back to oil changes and tire rotations. Big thanks to Matt R. for keeping GM involved, and to Jim for letting me drive his car, and for pointing me to Rickenbaugh. And thanks to everyone here for the encouragement and suggestions. BTW, Ted pulled the Carfax report and there's no evidence of any previous repairs. I really think it could have been this way for a very long time, possibly from day one, and the previous owner didn't realize it. He told me he didn't like the car, and I suspect the mediocre performance was a factor.

:nanaparty:

Enjoy the car we were rooting for you.

Tedboss1
02-17-10, 11:05 AM
Paul.
This is a good news that the car was finally fixed.
How do you like the power now.

Prof
02-17-10, 11:22 AM
Healthy CTS V's rock!

Great outcome...not all dealerships are equal!

I asked a dealership to make the power outlet in the dash a switched outlet...the service adviser's first comment was "why would you want to do that?"...

The second negative comment was "we can't do that, because the extra fuse location is not in the CTS V".

I told them to rewire it so that it was switched and their comment was "oh..."

Doubt that I will ever set foot inside that dealership again. (Weil Cadillac in Libertyville, IL)

MrPMS
02-17-10, 10:38 PM
Paul.
This is a good news that the car was finally fixed.
How do you like the power now.

Unfortunately, the drive home was in bumper-to-bumper, rush hour traffic, which was frustrating. I did get a chance to put just a few miles on today, and the power feels much better... more like I'd expected! I plan to put it on the dyno again: 1. Because I'm curious, and 2. So I have a baseline in case I ever suspect a problem in the future. It will be interesting to see how much power is available at 5300 feet.

MrPMS
02-17-10, 10:43 PM
Healthy CTS V's rock!

Great outcome...not all dealerships are equal!


I was pleased that I had a message from the service manager at McCaddon today, apologizing for not finding and fixing the problem. GM had called them to let them know Rickenbaugh had taken care of the problem that they had brushed off. This won't ever get me back in McCaddon's shop, but I was happy with the follow through from GM.

Razorecko
02-17-10, 11:14 PM
Healthy CTS V's rock!

Great outcome...not all dealerships are equal!

I asked a dealership to make the power outlet in the dash a switched outlet...the service adviser's first comment was "why would you want to do that?"...

The second negative comment was "we can't do that, because the extra fuse location is not in the CTS V".

I told them to rewire it so that it was switched and their comment was "oh..."

Doubt that I will ever set foot inside that dealership again. (Weil Cadillac in Libertyville, IL)

Hey I bought my V there and I agree their SERVICE SUUUUUUUUXXXX !!
I have the isolator noise and they told me it was the sound of fuel injectors firing. Wouldn't fix my leaking door trim because they said there was no issue ( b.s. ) any idea what caddy you'll be going to now ???? Also anyone know how you recieve recall notices ? I mean does your dealer have to register your vehicle with the gm database or is it automatic when you buy the vehicle ? ( never got the recall notice for the water in the door/ door freeze issue )

Gary Wells
02-18-10, 05:36 AM
I never received the "freezing door syndrome" recall either, but there again, I never really expected to receive one. It could be geographically issued, i.e. colder climates. I am curious as to how many received that recall.

Tedboss1
02-18-10, 10:18 AM
In December 2009 I have received "freezing door syndrome" recall from GM Canada.
I will be having the work done during my next visit to the dealer for service.
This winter the temperature in Montreal has been quite cold but I have not experienced any problems with freezing locks.
Gary if you PM me your email address I will send you a copy of the recall notice.

OldRoadDawg
02-18-10, 10:28 AM
I never received the "freezing door syndrome" recall either, but there again, I never really expected to receive one. It could be geographically issued, i.e. colder climates. I am curious as to how many received that recall.
Never got one... living in PA.
Could it possibly be contingent on date of mfg?
Mine is 4/09

Prof
02-18-10, 11:14 AM
Mine was 4/09 too and I did not get the notice.

Gary Wells
02-18-10, 11:19 AM
In December 2009 I have received "freezing door syndrome" recall from GM Canada.
I will be having the work done during my next visit to the dealer for service.
This winter the temperature in Montreal has been quite cold but I have not experienced any problems with freezing locks.
Gary if you PM me your email address I will send you a copy of the recall notice.
Tedboss1:
That's OK, Ted, I appreciate the thought, I was not doubting its existence, but curious as to how they were selecting those that received it, or need it. As OldRoadDawg suggested, maybe it a "build date criteria" thing.

Gary Wells
02-18-10, 11:21 AM
My build date is 3/09.

MReiland
02-18-10, 12:19 PM
I believe the information you are looking for is in
#09-08-64-036: Intermittent Front Door Lock Operation During Freezing Temperatures (Install Revised Door Lock) - (Dec 2, 2009)
Vehicles Affected are:
2008 CTS, and 2009 CTS with RPO UHA or UHF, and 2009 CTS-V specific VIN ranges are not listed.

GMX322V S/C
02-18-10, 03:31 PM
Matt,

Can you find any official words on an ECU flash supposedly for "lean codes" that bricked another forum member's ECU?

Thanks,

Mas

whodats cts-v
02-20-10, 06:11 PM
I traded in my 07 srt-8 charger for a 09 cts-v with 7k miles. wow! this car is awesome! crazy fast! >>>>a honda s2000 >>funny!

Prof
02-20-10, 06:30 PM
I traded in my 07 srt-8 charger for a 09 cts-v with 7k miles. wow! this car is awesome! crazy fast! >>>>a honda s2000 >>funny!

Given the choice between driving my SRT 10 and my CTS V...the V wins hands down!

MrPMS
02-21-10, 12:56 AM
I traded in my 07 srt-8 charger for a 09 cts-v with 7k miles. wow! this car is awesome! crazy fast! >>>>a honda s2000 >>funny!

Well, my CTS-V was not "awesome"... but it's much better now. Stick your nose in the air at the S2000 if you want, but it's still the best car I've ever owned.

MrPMS
03-13-10, 04:40 PM
Just to put a period on my story, for anyone still interested... with the boost problem resolved, I put the car on the same dyno as before, where it had measured 375 HP & 382 ft-lb TQ. The new numbers are 507 HP & 499 ft-lb TQ. This is at 5300' elevation, and stock except for Corsa axle-back exhaust. I have to think this dyno may be optimistic, but they compared the numbers to a ZR1 they'd run previously, and the V is only down about 50 HP to the Corvette. I was more than pleased.

Prof
03-13-10, 05:00 PM
Period hell! I'd call that an explanation point!

Gary Wells
03-13-10, 05:43 PM
Just to put a period on my story, for anyone still interested... with the boost problem resolved, I put the car on the same dyno as before, where it had measured 375 HP & 382 ft-lb TQ. The new numbers are 507 HP & 499 ft-lb TQ. This is at 5300' elevation, and stock except for Corsa axle-back exhaust. I have to think this dyno may be optimistic, but they compared the numbers to a ZR1 they'd run previously, and the V is only down about 50 HP to the Corvette. I was more than pleased.

Glad to hear. I am happy for you. What type of dyno, and are those RWHP & RWTQ #'s? Auto or manual?

neuronbob
03-13-10, 06:34 PM
:woot: Awesome!

And again, +1 to the S2000. No one can argue that S2000 is not a unique beast. Mine will leave my possession either when I'm bankrupt, or when it can be pried from my cold, dead hands.

It is truly an honor to have the best of America and an S2000 (truly, the best Japan has to offer in terms of spirit and soul in a car) in my garage.

MrPMS
03-14-10, 01:12 AM
Glad to hear. I am happy for you. What type of dyno, and are those RWHP & RWTQ #'s? Auto or manual?

It's a Dynojet dyno. The car is a manual.

Prof
03-14-10, 06:16 AM
In my mind the Dynojet is the usual standard. While there are several dyno brands out there, it seems around here that Dynojet and Mustang's are the most prevalent encountered. They do read different...the philosophical and physical approach are different. The Mustang uses a brake resistance mechanism in addition to the inertial drum used by a Dynojet. For additional information there is an explanation at the following site (seems that this has found itself to every vehicle forum I have ever seen, except this one at some time in the last year.

http://g35driver.com/forums/engine-drivetrain-forced-induction/26743-mustang-vs-dynojet-good-read.html


Note that the author is unknown...I spent a little time on Google trying to find the first post with attribution but did not find the citation. If someone is in McDonald PA, please contact Speed Nation and see if they know who wrote the initial article...then we would be the most accurate site with this info...:thumbsup::bouncy:

Gary Wells
03-14-10, 10:12 AM
Just to put a period on my story, for anyone still interested... with the boost problem resolved, I put the car on the same dyno as before, where it had measured 375 HP & 382 ft-lb TQ. The new numbers are 507 HP & 499 ft-lb TQ. This is at 5300' elevation, and stock except for Corsa axle-back exhaust. I have to think this dyno may be optimistic, but they compared the numbers to a ZR1 they'd run previously, and the V is only down about 50 HP to the Corvette. I was more than pleased.

I think that if you subtract about 18 RWHP & maybe about the same for RWTQ for the Corsa axle-back exhaust, I think that you would find your cat right about in the norm for the following 4 manual Dynojet dynoed cars from various posts on this forum. BTW, these are all bone stock CTS-V's from various states, elevations, different dynos other than maybe the 2 Texas cars, different dyno operators. Just guessing, I think that dyno is as accurate as could be expected and probably reads reasonably accurate.


Cad bone stock RWHP & RWTQ (Manl) (dynojet only):

RWHP--RWTQ---Trans----Locale-----Owner------------Date-----------Dyno

466------464------manl-----Kali-------Luna------------05-??-09--------Dynojet
494------483------manl-----Txs-------Silver V------- 01-16-09--------Dynojet
500------481------manl-----Ala-------roarkb-----------03-06-10--------Dynojet
502------490------manl-----Txs-------TrevorD---------12-25-09--------Dynojet

Manual bone stock RWHP & RWTQ ( dynojet only) 4 samples:

RWHP Average (4 samples) = 1962/4= 490.50 RWHP
RWTQ Average (4 samples) = 1918/4= 479.50 RWTQ

neuronbob
03-14-10, 10:21 AM
Gary, I wish the mods would sticky your thread on dyno numbers. That is such a useful resource for people starting out with mods. Kudos to you and your spreadsheets, man! :thumbsup:

Bob

Gary Wells
03-14-10, 10:39 AM
Thanks, Bob, feedback is much appreciated. I do believe over time and adding more data sets as more & more peeps dyno bone stock CTS-V's, we will gain some meaningful knowledge from them.
In building these sheets, I did prove something that I did not want to prove, and that is that a manual '09 CTS-V does produce about 40 more RWHP and about and about 32 RWTQ more than a auto.

Here's something that some people might find interesting, an auto losing 19% is something else that I did not want to prove, but did. Broke my heart to see that much of a loss on a auto compared to a manual.

Cad bone stock RWHP & RWTQ averages
Auto & Manual bone stock RWHP & RWTQ (all dyno types) 22 samples:
RWHP Average (22 samples): 10232/22= 465.09 average
RWTQ Average (22 samples): 10246/22= 465.73 average

Auto bone stock RWHP & RWTQ (Dynapack only) 2 samples:
RWHP Average (2 samples): 991/2= 495.5 average
RWTQ Average (2 samples) 1034/2= 517 average

Auto bone stock RWHP & RWTQ (Dynojet only) 13 samples:
RWHP Average (13 samples): 5853/13= 450.23 average
RWTQ Average (13 samples): 5820/13= 447.69 average

Manual bone stock RWHP & RWTQ (all dyno types) 6 samples:
RWHP Average (6 samples) = 2888/6= 481.33 average
RWTQ Average (6 samples) = 2911/6= 485.17 average

Manual bone stock RWHP & RWTQ (dynojet only) 4 samples:
RWHP Average (4 samples) = 1962/4= 490.50 RWHP
RWTQ Average (4 samples) = 1918/4= 479.50 RWTQ

RWHP & RWTQ drive train losses (using 556 FWHP & 553 FWTQ #’s)
Based upon Dynojet #’s only (Auto=13 samples) (Manual=4 samples) :
RWHP loss *Automatic transmission*: 19% average
RWTQ loss *Automatic transmission*: 19% average
RWHP loss Manual transmission: 12% average
RWTQ loss Manual transmission: 13% average