: Nutz's dyno and exhaust thread



Nutz
01-11-10, 09:06 PM
Finally had the time to share it here. Manual trans car.
Me on my birthday treating myself to some dyno pulls.
W4M: PCM swap, 9" lower pulley, CAI, and 160 stat. Mac Performance axle back bolt-on mufflers.
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http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/hpjim/578_clear.jpg
http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af238/hpjim/578_mixture.jpg




Here's a clip of my own personal exhaust project.
Mac 304 Stainless mufflers, Maremont stock appearing 4" dbl wall stainless tips.
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Damn security token really sucked this time!

cbloveday
01-11-10, 09:13 PM
Wow, congrates on the numbers. That is really strong!!!

wait4me
01-11-10, 09:53 PM
Nice numbers. If you give me a call tommorrow, i can adjust that and have it exactly 11.5s on the airfuel now that i know where it is sitting at af wise.. Should be able to get another 8hp. :)

neuronbob
01-11-10, 11:50 PM
Sounds good and great numbers! Did you have the work done at Backstreet, or did you drive to Indiana to have Jesse do it?

PCM swap takes care of warranty issues, too, correct, and gives the same tranny benefit as the handheld tune? How easy is a PCM swap, BTW?

Still learning about mods, so excuse the dumb questions. :)

Luna.
01-12-10, 12:07 AM
Finally had the time to share it here. Manual trans car.
Me on my birthday treating myself to some dyno pulls.
W4M: PCM swap, 9" lower pulley, CAI, and 160 stat. Mac Performance axle back bolt-on mufflers.

Very cool. Congrats. It also sounds like Jesse can clean up that tune even further, which I'm sure will put a smile on your face. :cool2:

Numbers look totally reasonable to me. We have substantially the same mods, save for headers and I got ~35 more HP, which doesn't seem overly unreasonable, to say nothing about the fact that I may have picked up a few more ponies being on a Dynapack instead of a Dynojet.

Have fun! :dance:

Htown09
01-12-10, 12:42 AM
How much does just the ECU swap dyno? I am not interested in the pulley because of warranty issues.

Nutz
01-12-10, 01:48 AM
Sounds good and great numbers! Did you have the work done at Backstreet, or did you drive to Indiana to have Jesse do it?

PCM swap takes care of warranty issues, too, correct, and gives the same tranny benefit as the handheld tune? How easy is a PCM swap, BTW?Did the CAI, t-stat, and PCM myself. PCM is accessed right inside engine compartment, just release and unplug three harnesses from the module, then swap, and plug in, and secure the three harnesses, done. Don't know about the auto trans though cuz I have a stick, but I would assume it's all in the same module.
Did the pulley at a local pristine auto repair facility with a ASE Cert mech that is exceptionally talented, well trained, and anal retentive about perfection. Backstreet just dyno pulled it. No fine tuning was performed or even necessary (in my eyes). I'm pleased with the "fatness" of the mixture as it was provided by Wait4Me. Backstreet (as a successful provider of fast cars) offered to lean it out a bit, but I asked that they do not change PCM data at all. I paid for it as it was shipped and calibrated, and I feel I have a strict obligation with Jesse not to tamper with his settings.

Gary Wells
01-12-10, 07:07 AM
Great #'s, nutz, and for the little amount of performance that you lose on a "fat" tune, you well than make up for it with a safety & reliability factor. Also, not to sound condescending, but your 'tude about respect for leaving the ECM the way that the tuner sent it is to be commended.

Luna.
01-12-10, 03:14 PM
Did the pulley at a local pristine auto repair facility with a ASE Cert mech that is exceptionally talented, well trained, and anal retentive about perfection. Backstreet just dyno pulled it. No fine tuning was performed or even necessary (in my eyes). I'm pleased with the "fatness" of the mixture as it was provided by Wait4Me. Backstreet (as a successful provider of fast cars) offered to lean it out a bit, but I asked that they do not change PCM data at all. I paid for it as it was shipped and calibrated, and I feel I have a strict obligation with Jesse not to tamper with his settings.

Why is that?

It looks like Jesse did a good job of estimating where the tune should be at, but I don't think anyone could truly dial-it in without the car in front of him. This is why I think Jesse said to send him back the PCM so that he COULD dial it in.

Strange--I would think that you would want to have it dialed in while it was on the dyno. :confused:

On an unrelated note, I'm thinking that headers might add significant rwtq. Our torque curves looks pretty similar (which I suspect is common amongst most LSA motors), but my peak rwhp (~615) and rwtq (~608) numbers are very close, suggesting a much higher torque curve. While my tune is a little more dialed in than the one shown above, I don't think it would make THAT much difference.

Just interesting is all---I was always skeptical about how much headers really add. Perhaps in a supercharged car they add some significant UMPH!

neuronbob
01-12-10, 03:54 PM
Don't know about the auto trans though cuz I have a stick, but I would assume it's all in the same module.

D'oh! Forgot you have a 6MT.

I absolutely love your ride. :thumbsup:

Gotham CTS-V
01-12-10, 04:10 PM
EXCELLENT numbers brother! It's really nice to see a dyno like that. Just shows what our cars are capable of with basic mods.

Anyone know what the drive-train loss is with the 6 speed MT? Probably 15% right? That should mean you have around 665hp. Very nice bro!

I can't wait to get my car on the dyno and see what #'s I post up with the bigger pulley.

GMX322V S/C
01-13-10, 03:51 AM
^^^---More like 578/.85=680! Nice!!

Cub Cadet
01-13-10, 08:43 PM
Finally a much better sounding exhaust!!!! You did a fine job with that exhaust system and by far the BEST sounding V out there. I cannot stand the Corsa sound.
I would love to find a way to get some Bassani mufflers in there or get something from Stainless Works in there.

Nutz
01-14-10, 06:56 PM
Thanks Cub. I just like my car's to have that really deep muscle car growl with some noise coming down, as you can tell in the vid, the tone is dramatically changed, but the noise level is not significantly higher than stock.
The car is dead-on as Jesse described, he said it would feel light, and surprisingly it does.

IPS Brandon
01-20-10, 02:07 PM
Did the CAI, t-stat, and PCM myself. PCM is accessed right inside engine compartment, just release and unplug three harnesses from the module, then swap, and plug in, and secure the three harnesses, done. Don't know about the auto trans though cuz I have a stick, but I would assume it's all in the same module.
Did the pulley at a local pristine auto repair facility with a ASE Cert mech that is exceptionally talented, well trained, and anal retentive about perfection. Backstreet just dyno pulled it. No fine tuning was performed or even necessary (in my eyes). I'm pleased with the "fatness" of the mixture as it was provided by Wait4Me. Backstreet (as a successful provider of fast cars) offered to lean it out a bit, but I asked that they do not change PCM data at all. I paid for it as it was shipped and calibrated, and I feel I have a strict obligation with Jesse not to tamper with his settings.

I am sorry this may seem rude, but that A/F is well off calibration, and not good by any stretch. To Jesse's credit it is a mail order tune, which is not my personal preference by any means for this exact reason . You have a fluctuation of (eye balling it) 1.5 on the curve, and the car is leaning out in an odd manner at the end of the pull, even though it is in the safe range.I know Jesse can fix this and I am not trying to make a jab by any stretch. It just puts a bad taste in my mouth seeing mail order results sometimes.

Your fuel economy has got to be really suffering here as well, even though the performance is still good.

The car looks and sounds nice though.

Regards
Brandon

wait4me
01-20-10, 05:11 PM
How would gas mileage be suffering from you seeing this dyno graph???

Normal driving Gas mileage has nothing with wide open throttle dyno runs.. While the car is regular driving, the vehicle is in closed loop and will command the 14.6 air fuel ratio and set itself up based on o2 sensor feedback and coeficient values...

When i set them up i use metlab and other things to correct for airflow changes based on parts installed on the engine. It is usually exact. However, without feedback from a engine, i always put it on the safe side. His tune is EXACTLY what i have it commanded to be. I do that to be on the safe side, as it isnt hurting him at all to be that rich on that motor. I would much rather be rich than lean on a 20k motor.... Hence why i set them up like that. If a car is in person, then i tune it to 11.5, to 11.9 depending on other mods...

The reason why i know it is exactly what i was asking for is it matches me finished wide open throttle commanded values. Im asking for 11.5 till 4k, then i move it to 10.6 - 10.2 based on cat temps.

In one change i can have it a flat line of 11.5. I do it all the time...

Also as i have explained earlier in this post, once i see that it matches what i am requesting, and there are obviously no issues on his car, then i will move it to what i want for its final values.. You can also see on the graph that i have it pull 1.2 degrees of timing at 5100 rpms. That is also a test i do to make it show that i have my spark values correct. I move that back as well, and then the curve is perfect.....

1-2-N-V
01-20-10, 05:39 PM
Hey nutZ what kind of mufflers were they again and how much$ and where to get them. They sound awesome. Yeah i did not like corsa i think some one had flowmasters not bad but these sounded great. Gotta get these.

IPS Brandon
01-20-10, 06:23 PM
How would gas mileage be suffering from you seeing this dyno graph???

Normal driving Gas mileage has nothing with wide open throttle dyno runs.. While the car is regular driving, the vehicle is in closed loop and will command the 14.6 air fuel ratio and set itself up based on o2 sensor feedback and coeficient values...

When i set them up i use metlab and other things to correct for airflow changes based on parts installed on the engine. It is usually exact. However, without feedback from a engine, i always put it on the safe side. His tune is EXACTLY what i have it commanded to be. I do that to be on the safe side, as it isnt hurting him at all to be that rich on that motor. I would much rather be rich than lean on a 20k motor.... Hence why i set them up like that. If a car is in person, then i tune it to 11.5, to 11.9 depending on other mods...

The reason why i know it is exactly what i was asking for is it matches me finished wide open throttle commanded values. Im asking for 11.5 till 4k, then i move it to 10.6 - 10.2 based on cat temps.

In one change i can have it a flat line of 11.5. I do it all the time...

Also as i have explained earlier in this post, once i see that it matches what i am requesting, and there are obviously no issues on his car, then i will move it to what i want for its final values.. You can also see on the graph that i have it pull 1.2 degrees of timing at 5100 rpms. That is also a test i do to make it show that i have my spark values correct. I move that back as well, and then the curve is perfect.....

Again, I did not say it was unsafe, but the power is hurting drastically dipping into the low 10:1 air fuel ratios. I understand you can make changes to the tune, but running them very rich is just as bad to a certain level.

As for economy you're correct, the car does use O2 feedback in closed loop, not arguing there, but depending on how you have calibrated the car to enter open loop, and at what values you certainly could see a decrease economy.

I understand secondary cat temp (02 voltage) calculations as well and the affect they have.

wait4me
01-20-10, 06:56 PM
The horsepower change is minimal on this car for that airfuel ratio change. usually in the 5 to 8 hp range for the fuel ratio change only. 8 horsepower is on the high side. You can verify that pretty simple on your next dyno run you do on a 09 V. 5 is the normal. Im not to worried about 5 hp to make it so i never blow up an engine.

Nutz
01-21-10, 03:29 AM
Hey nutZ what kind of mufflers were they again and how much$ and where to get them. They sound awesome. Yeah i did not like corsa i think some one had flowmasters not bad but these sounded great. Gotta get these.Mac Mufflers. Under $100 a piece too. :thumbsup:


Again, I did not say it was unsafe, but the power is hurting drastically dipping into the low 10:1 air fuel ratios. I understand you can make changes to the tune, but running them very rich is just as bad to a certain level.
Concern is appreciated. I am content with the mixture just as it is, especially knowing that that ratio can EASILY change with a bad tank of gas, especially at the top end. With these pistons, I want fuel. Plus, owning a 600 hp GN I am always over protective of top end lean conditions.

Plus... 578 rwhp for these few mods... I really don't feel as though my power is hurting.

Gary Wells
01-21-10, 06:49 AM
Nutz:
Got a part # for those Mac mufflers?

Gotham CTS-V
01-21-10, 09:14 AM
Nutz:
Got a part # for those Mac mufflers?

Yeah for that price I am SO buying those! Thanks man...

IPSjeff
01-21-10, 10:13 AM
Plus... 578 rwhp for these few mods... I really don't feel as though my power is hurting.

What kind of dyno do they use up there? That is exactly what we made on our AWD DynoJet with a few more mods. I will be curious to see what your V will trap (Assuming you take it out once to find out) as compared to the car we just finished up.
Jeff

Nutz
01-21-10, 07:10 PM
Nutz:
Got a part # for those Mac mufflers?
Mac 16 gauge 304 Stainless steel Flowpath mufflers.

Part# SS1634 2-1/2" OFFSET in 2-1/2" CENTER out


Yeah for that price I am SO buying those! Thanks man...:thumbsup:


What kind of dyno do they use up there? That is exactly what we made on our AWD DynoJet with a few more mods. I will be curious to see what your V will trap (Assuming you take it out once to find out) as compared to the car we just finished up.
JeffAlso used a DynoJet as seen in the video above. I will make a few passes when someone reveals the big secret question of specifically which drag radials and GM wheels will fit on this car for weekend thrashing.

neuronbob
01-21-10, 08:27 PM
Mac Mufflers. Under $100 a piece too.


WOW. :eek:

They sound all the better then. :thumbsup:

1-2-N-V
01-22-10, 10:11 AM
So where did you buy these from Nutz?

Nutz
01-22-10, 03:51 PM
Straight from Manny @ Mac Performance in California.

1-2-N-V
01-22-10, 04:10 PM
Thanks Man I already got an email in to them

1-2-N-V
01-27-10, 07:43 AM
Oh one more thing what modifications did you have to do to the axle pipes? Did the Mac mufflers already come with the necessary offset pipes? I am still waiting for an email back but i will call them today. Thanks.

Nutz
01-27-10, 09:26 AM
Order OFFSET in CENTER out as mentioned, cut the stock exhaust just before the axle at a straight location, and have a good muffler shop wrestle in 2 new axle pipes within the very limited space.

Figure ahead of time for a chrome tip of your choice for the muffler shop to install too. I suggest calling Maremont for a stainless, double wall, slash cut, 2-1/2 in with 4" out. Special part number's are assigned for tips without a laser etched logo on it.

1-2-N-V
01-27-10, 09:32 AM
Ok Sounds good. You have the number to this Maremont? So soup to nuts how long for the install and how much $ total for this.

gnxs
01-27-10, 10:13 AM
Not everybody has a qualified tuner where they live. Mail order tunes can work fine, but they have to be evaluated and feedback given to the tuner to make tweaks. I agree with IPS Brandon that I would not leave that tune as is and would certainly ask Jesse to clean it up.

I've had RWTD mail order tunes in my Cobra for years with no issues. Base tune, datalog with my LM-1, tweaks by RWTD, repeat if required, perfected tune. I agree it's alot easier and preferred to have the tune done in person (RWTD has come to Chicago for tuning sessions and managed to squeeze a bit more power out of my Cobra in person), but mail order tunes can work well. Everytime I added some mods that might affect the tune, I went through the process again. It's a little work, but cheap insurance for long engine life on a modded car.

I'm lucky enough to have Jesse within driving distance so my Caddy will always be done in person by him. IMO he is one of, if not THE most qualified and experienced tuners on these cars.

Nutz
01-27-10, 10:50 AM
Ok Sounds good. You have the number to this Maremont? So soup to nuts how long for the install and how much $ total for this.
Maremont 866-869-9704 one of the largest muffler shop suppliers in the US.

$200.00 Mufflers
$70.00 Tips

Case of Great Lakes Dortmunder beer to help my buddy make and install the aluminized pipes, hangers, and tips within an hour (call it $100.00 with materials to be fair).

Supe to nutz' car: $370.00

As soon as mother nature stops giving reasons for salt dust on the road, I'll post up some drive by sounds.