: 2009/10 Cadillac CTS-V Lowering Springs Officially Released (Images inside)



Dr. Design
01-05-10, 10:13 PM
Hello,
The highly anticipated lowering springs have finally broke cover. After months of testing and various combinations we have approved the CTS-V lowering springs for full production. Lowering springs are scheduled to ship by the end of January, week of the 25th. Pre-orders will have priority shipping once the first shipment comes off the production line. To place your pre-order please contact our offices at 562-216-8919 or email info@d3cadillac.com.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/09CTSVLoweringSprings_Artwork_FINAL.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/WS_LoweredCTSV_002.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/WS_LoweredCTSV_001.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/WS_LoweredCTSV_003.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/Converted_MG_6961.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/Converted_MG_6966.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/Converted_MG_6990.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/Converted_MG_6999.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/Converted_MG_7001.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/Converted_MG_7004.jpg


Here are a few images of some of the test vehicles that were used for prototyping. Special thank you goes out to the owners of these vehicles (Dave & William) for working with us to develop a suspension upgrade that has been tested by real vehicle owners with comfort and performance in mind. Both of these vehicle owners are members of the forum, I believe, and they can certainly answer any questions regarding the vehicle and their everyday driving experience with these lowering springs.

Please note that this suspension has been designed to work with the factory mag ride system. All touring/sport features will still work properly when installing the D3 lowering springs. Installation is straight forward and can be completed in about 4 hours with standard tools.


For more information regarding this product or any of our other high quality performance products, please contact us.


Thank you,

Gordy Petrovski
01-05-10, 10:36 PM
Nice work guys,Thank you....Thank you.... Thank you :thumbsup:

2k9RedV
01-05-10, 10:52 PM
WOW those look awesome. Officially added to the future mod list. :woohoo:

Ross Racing
01-05-10, 11:14 PM
I would like to thank D3 for the wonderful opportunity of testing these springs on my car. The professionalism and the quality of work these guys do is top of the line. After extensive road testing I would say that they have found the perfect balance, being careful not to take away from what Cadillac had engineered.

Razorecko
01-05-10, 11:26 PM
siiiiick. You guys have an em from me :D

neuronbob
01-05-10, 11:44 PM
:woot:

Reasonable price for the amount of work that went into the development. THANK YOU D3! :thumbsup:

Ride quality, please, in Touring and Sport modes? How much harshness? Amount of body roll? Amount of drop? How frequently is the lip scraped? Were any of the testers in northern climes and do the springs easily rust? Details, guys, details! :thumbsup:

GMX322V S/C
01-06-10, 05:41 AM
Looks great guys. Any tire rubbing at all (with stock diameters/offsets)? Any pogoing off the bump stops over rough surfaces--especially with 4-people or 3 + luggage in the car?

Ross Racing
01-06-10, 10:39 AM
I have had a lot of different types of lowering springs on different cars, and I am very happy with the ride from the D3 springs. By no means is it jaring or rough. My 20" wheels had more of an effect on the ride than the springs. The magnetic ride control works just as good as stock and the difference between touring and sport is the same as with the stock springs. My car has been loaded with 4 adults and a trunk full of luggage and I did not experience any tire rub on bumps or at full lock of the wheel.

I have not experienced any additional bump steer and the car just wants to go straight. In the twisties it is evident that the car is flatter and a bit more confident. Mainly due to the lower center of gravity and slightly stiffer springs.

neuronbob
01-06-10, 12:14 PM
Thanks, Ross Racing. In other words, I can drive as usual. I just don't want a jarring, harsh ride.

Looks like this could be on my spring mods list.

GMX322V S/C
01-06-10, 02:08 PM
Yes, thanks for the feedback RR. Very tempting...

Tony407
01-07-10, 01:42 AM
Thanks for the feedback, RR. Consider my question in your pics thread answered.

Tony

thebigjimsho
01-07-10, 09:55 AM
How much quicker will the MR shocks blow out? And how much are they to replace when they do??

LITTLEELVISDAN
01-07-10, 10:28 AM
I have a set of D3 springs on my STS-V and love them. I know we have the Nivomats not the MR's. My springs have been on the car for 50k and havent blown a shock or strut yet. I don't know if its an apples to apples comparison so take the info for what it is.

thebigjimsho
01-07-10, 10:37 AM
I have a set of D3 springs on my STS-V and love them. I know we have the Nivomats not the MR's. My springs have been on the car for 50k and havent blown a shock or strut yet. I don't know if its an apples to apples comparison so take the info for what it is.
My FG2 Nivomats lasted for about 35k miles in my '04. But those weren't a big deal to replace. If a set of MR shocks go for $3G(I'd like to know how much...), I'm guessing more than a few people would not like to have to replace them...

Silver -V-
01-07-10, 10:43 AM
GM parts Direct shows the MSRP for the rear shocks - $543.86, no parts for the fronts are listed, but I would think the pricing to be similiar. Their everyday price is less, but most people will have to pay MSRP at a dealer for now.

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getJointLocator&siteid=214858&chapter=&Sectionids=0,2512&groupid=2523&subgroupid=4471&componentid=0&make=5&model=Cts&year=2009&graphicID=BK08247&callout=12&catalogid=2&displayCatalogid=0

wfo
01-07-10, 11:26 AM
Sweeet!!! You guys appear to have done it.

wfo
01-07-10, 05:02 PM
Just ordered a set of D3's lowering springs for my 09 CTS-V.

I'm pretty tough on retailers about Website information correctness. That is to say. If you're going to put product information, pricing, model specific information, etc. on a company Website, the customer aught to be able to rely on this information as valid and correct. I mean you all had planty of time to correct this stuff before going to market.

D3's Website shows the 09 CTS-V lowering springs at $275. Upon calling D3, James in sales indicated it is typo. A typo? I've seen this typo now for months. Come on guys. Can someone please provide Website information integrity due diligence here.

Now, all I ask is...Please make sure I get the correct springs for the correct car. Lowering springs for an 09 CTS-V.

Pretty please.

Thank you kindly.

thebigjimsho
01-07-10, 05:17 PM
Just ordered a set of D3's lowering springs for my 09 CTS-V.

I'm pretty tough on retailers about Website information correctness. That is to say. If you're going to put product information, pricing, model specific information, etc. on a company Website, the customer aught to be able to rely on this information as valid and correct. I mean you all had planty of time to correct this stuff before going to market.

D3's Website shows the 09 CTS-V lowering springs at $275. Upon calling D3, James in sales indicated it is typo. A typo? I've seen this typo now for months. Come on guys. Can someone please provide Website information integrity due diligence here.

Now, all I ask is...Please make sure I get the correct springs for the correct car. Lowering springs for an 09 CTS-V.

Pretty please.

Thank you kindly.
Nothing beats the QA1s they were selling for less than $500 when it was suppose to be that price for 2. Kudos to them for honoring that price but that was a big snafu...

thebigjimsho
01-07-10, 05:18 PM
I'll see about talking to Luke at Lindsay about replacement pricing on the MR shocks. If they aren't too expensive, maybe I'll buy a set to get some springs or coilovers and be a guinea pig...

wfo
01-07-10, 06:42 PM
Nothing beats the QA1s they were selling for less than $500 when it was suppose to be that price for 2. Kudos to them for honoring that price but that was a big snafu...

Thanks bigjimsho..but hang on there bigfella. They didn't honor anything..nope. And that's why I was a bit peeved. :banghead:

I'm settled down now. However, I did make it quite clear...yes, as in, "clear a bell ringing in ones ear". :yup:

Now if the genuises at D3 will make sure we/I get complete install material and correct product for vehicle, I will be most happy. :D

Over and out ya'll.

radix
01-07-10, 07:02 PM
I'll see about talking to Luke at Lindsay about replacement pricing on the MR shocks. If they aren't too expensive, maybe I'll buy a set to get some springs or coilovers and be a guinea pig...


Looks like on gmpartsdirect.com fronts are $322.40 each, rears $235.66 ea.


GL

Tony407
01-07-10, 07:46 PM
Looks like on gmpartsdirect.com fronts are $322.40 each, rears $235.66 ea.


GL

I think this is a fairly reasonable price.

Tony

thebigjimsho
01-08-10, 12:30 AM
I think this is a fairly reasonable price.

Tony
I think that is a cheap price...

Gary Wells
01-08-10, 05:15 AM
I think that is a cheap price...
Agreed, I would hate to see what GM generally wants for them at normal list price.

Titaniumseeker
01-19-10, 01:51 PM
Hello,
The highly anticipated lowering springs have finally broke cover. After months of testing and various combinations we have approved the CTS-V lowering springs for full production. Lowering springs are scheduled to ship by the end of January, week of the 25th. Pre-orders will have priority shipping once the first shipment comes off the production line. To place your pre-order please contact our offices at 562-216-8919 or email info@d3cadillac.com.

Here are a few images of some of the test vehicles that were used for prototyping. Special thank you goes out to the owners of these vehicles (Dave & William) for working with us to develop a suspension upgrade that has been tested by real vehicle owners with comfort and performance in mind. Both of these vehicle owners are members of the forum, I believe, and they can certainly answer any questions regarding the vehicle and their everyday driving experience with these lowering springs.

Please note that this suspension has been designed to work with the factory mag ride system. All touring/sport features will still work properly when installing the D3 lowering springs. Installation is straight forward and can be completed in about 4 hours with standard tools.


For more information regarding this product or any of our other high quality performance products, please contact us.


Thank you,

What is the warranty on these springs? Are there any clauses declining responsibility for damage to the mag ride system that we need to be made aware of?

Dr. Design
01-19-10, 09:49 PM
Hello,
The warranty on the springs is lifetime.

As for the mag ride system and any possible concerns regarding any type of speculation regarding failure. Anytime you lower a vehicle on stock shocks, it is understood that you have modified the vehicles suspension and could potentially cause additional wear as a result throughout the suspension. The two test vehicles that have tested this system have not exhibited any signs of shock degradation or premature wear that we are able to monitor or see. We feel that the levels in which we are lowering the vehicle are low enough to give the vehicle the visual appeal that owners are looking for when pursuing lowering springs for their vehicles, without compromising the vehicles overall ride quality nor drastically reducing suspension component lifespan.

Please let us know if there are any other questions.

p.s. We are still on schedule to ship springs by the end of this month!! Pre-orders are just about filled up. We will have another container shipped into the US in about 4-6 weeks after this first shipment is exhausted.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac




What is the warranty on these springs? Are there any clauses declining responsibility for damage to the mag ride system that we need to be made aware of?

V-Eight
01-19-10, 09:58 PM
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/Converted_MG_6966.jpg

That is an amazing picture.

thebigjimsho
01-19-10, 10:27 PM
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/Converted_MG_6966.jpg

That is an amazing picture.
Needs some Hoens...

Dr. Design
01-26-10, 03:51 PM
BUMP^
Hello,
The D3 lowering springs are shipping to customers on Feb 2nd & 3rd as our shipments has recently been confirmed. We have a few pre-order slots still available. After they are gone, we will have to wait patiently for the next shipment. Cost is $425 plus shipping. Orders can be placed online (info@d3cadillac.com) or by phone 562-216-8919.

Here are some additional images courtesy of Extreme Performance UAE with the D3 lowering springs installed on stock size wheels -
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/18531_278666520700_270833035700_509.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/18531_278666510700_270833035700_509.jpg

Please let us know if there are any questions.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac

Dr. Design
02-06-10, 12:34 PM
BUMP
Quick update. All the pre-sale spring orders have been shipped as of Friday the 5th. We had a slight delay clearing customs thus causing the 3 day delay. We still have a few left from this shipment if you are interested in placing an order, but they are going fast! Next shipment wont be in until 4-6 weeks. Thank you to all that placed their orders.

Let us know if there are any questions.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac

thatcoder
02-06-10, 02:28 PM
Awaiting more feedback from all your satisfied customers. Don't like being an early adopter/a guinea pig

wfo
02-06-10, 03:17 PM
Still waiting for these great springs to be released yet. Was supposed to be end of January. I've got an early order in, but no word yet.

Tony407
02-06-10, 10:59 PM
Still waiting for these great springs to be released yet. Was supposed to be end of January. I've got an early order in, but no word yet.

They've been released. One member already has them on her car - RossRacing. I purchased a set and they should be here mid next week. Now to find a decent shop in the Portland area to install them...

Tony

Dr. Design
02-08-10, 04:05 PM
Hello,
By now everyone that ordered these should now have a tracking number. If you have not received an email from D3 with a tracking number, please do contact us.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac

Tony407
02-08-10, 04:12 PM
Hello,
By now everyone that ordered these should now have a tracking number. If you have not received an email from D3 with a tracking number, please do contact us.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac

Email sent requesting a tracking number.

Tony

EXTM
02-08-10, 04:58 PM
I have installed them and i LOVE them, ride quality is great and the look is just amazing.

v4meinsandiego
02-09-10, 12:30 AM
I have installed them and i LOVE them, ride quality is great and the look is just amazing.

I just had mine installed tonight. The car sits sooooo much better and so far I am a happy guy. The ride is slightly firmer but not bad at all. The sport and tour modes still work and you can still feel the difference between the two. I am really happy with the package at this point. Thanks to D3 for doing a good job on this kit.

blkCTSv
02-10-10, 09:56 AM
Getting my springs installed, plus the brake hoses on Friday in the 2010 V. Headed to Willow Springs Big Track on Feb 21 for a track day. Hoping to get the beast out for a leisure day of Sunday driving.

Tony407
02-10-10, 03:29 PM
Getting my springs installed, plus the brake hoses on Friday in the 2010 V. Headed to Willow Springs Big Track on Feb 21 for a track day. Hoping to get the beast out for a leisure day of Sunday driving.

I would not consider the kind of driving you'll be doing on that Sunday typical of Sunday driving!!! :histeric: But I get your point. Sounds like fun.

Tony

Razorecko
02-12-10, 06:27 AM
I forgot to ask, did you guys do hard launches from a stop with these springs to see how they affect launching traction ?

wfo
02-12-10, 07:33 PM
Just got my D3 springs delivered today...sweet!

Next week they get installed...even sweeter!

Steiner
02-12-10, 08:29 PM
Is there a roll center kit available to supplement these springs? I believe this change in suspension geometry would actually make the car prone to more front end body roll rather than less.

blkCTSv
02-13-10, 12:03 PM
Springs and brake lines installed. The car sits SO NICE on the ground! I will take the car out today and get the spring "broken in". Pictures tonight.

wfo
02-13-10, 12:38 PM
Is there a roll center kit available to supplement these springs? I believe this change in suspension geometry would actually make the car prone to more front end body roll rather than less.

No way! :rant2:

Lowered center of gravity=less roll.

thebigjimsho
02-14-10, 02:36 AM
No way! :rant2:

Lowered center of gravity=less roll.
Thicker sway bars = less roll. A lowered car can roll more, but that's a possibility, not a definite...

Gary Wells
02-14-10, 06:11 AM
No way! :rant2:

Lowered center of gravity=less roll.

A lowered center of gravity = less roll is pretty much dependent upon how top-heavy the car in question is, theoretically. I would be surprised if the amount of roll reduced by a lower center of gravity is significant, but the more top heavy a vehicle is the more the roll will be affected.
However, unless something else is changed, such as smaller sway bars either front or rear, or springs were softened, it sure can only help and not hinder.
The more top heavy a vehicle is, the more of a tendency it would have to be dangerous in it's handling characteristics regardless of body roll.
Not to be disagreeable, WFO, and only my IMHO. I am certain that you will like the springs and the handling improvement that it has / will make on your CTS-V.
Pics please.

Gary Wells
02-14-10, 06:20 AM
Thicker sway bars = less roll. A lowered car can roll more, but that's a possibility, not a definite...

IMHO, Jim, a lowered car can't roll more unless something else was changed, such as softer springs, smaller sway bars, softer sway bar or control arm bushings, etc., etc.

The primary reason that everybody increases sway bar thicknesses to obtain less roll is because changing sway bar sizes will not change the ride characteristics much, if any at all, and sway bar changes affects roll more directly than reducing chassis height.

Q8 6.2
02-14-10, 07:35 AM
what about speed bumps do you clear them ok?? how difficult is the install can a regular suspension shop install them no problem?? group buy:thumbsup:

blkCTSv
02-14-10, 02:50 PM
Actually, I have not scraped anything yet. My driveway is pretty steep and I still have an inch or so. Took it to the carwash yesterday and still had an inch for the rail on the conveyor belt. Man, I love the ride, a little stiffer and a feel a little more road. when in sport mode, the ride is exactly what I wanted. The picture below is from autocrossing last weekend - bone dry stock! ugly! we'll see how she does with the new stance (lowered and stiffer) next weekend on the track and then autocrossing March 7.

wfo
02-14-10, 03:40 PM
blkctsV...ride looks great lowered doesn't it?

I've loweed my 08 Z06 with only stock bolts and could tell a significant difference in handling, but was reminded by the limited travel of the suspension so I got some sense and went to a coilover set up, which is the correct way to lower these Vettes. This made a huge difference, particulalry at the steering wheel; keeping things much stiffer, tighter and more planted. No oscillating or front-end lift affect, youtend toexperience at high speeds in the Vette.

Now the V's a whole different animal of course and I suspect the lowered ride will be perceptible and to the better. Looking forward to it. Not in the least concerned about clearance issues with lowering as there is much still remaining in terms of clearance after lowering.

richeic77
02-15-10, 03:16 AM
Any springs still left in stock? Or will I have to wait the 4-6 weeks. I leave for work again in 2 weeks and won't be back for 6 months.

NeedCTS-v
02-15-10, 02:41 PM
Any springs still left in stock? Or will I have to wait the 4-6 weeks. I leave for work again in 2 weeks and won't be back for 6 months.

Mine were ordered today, should ship tomorrow.

thebigjimsho
02-15-10, 07:06 PM
Not in the least concerned about clearance issues with lowering as there is much still remaining in terms of clearance after lowering.
It's not clearance, it's approach angle. My V1 sits much lower than my V2 but since it has a short overhang, its approach angle is much better. I gasp over dips and slopes that I don't even think twice about in the V1...

Dr. Design
02-16-10, 12:00 PM
Hello,
We have a few left in stock. Call us to place an order or send an email to info@d3cadillac.com.

If you order by 2PM PST we can get your order out today.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac


Any springs still left in stock? Or will I have to wait the 4-6 weeks. I leave for work again in 2 weeks and won't be back for 6 months.

Steiner
02-22-10, 12:55 AM
No way! :rant2:

Lowered center of gravity=less roll.Not necessarily. It'd be easier to explain if we were standing under a lift looking up at the car's suspension but this will have to do...


Every vehicle has a front roll center and rear roll center. They are independent from each other. The roll center is a theoretical point determined by the pivot point location and angles of the suspension linkages, about which the particular end of the vehicle rolls. Front and rear roll centers are joined by a straight line running through the center - called the roll axis. During cornering, the car will roll about the roll axis. The relationship between the CGH and roll axis determines body roll taking place during cornering. The greater distance between the CGH and the roll axis, the greater the body roll angle with a given lateral acceleration. The guideline for building a race car is generally the front roll center will lie 1-3 inches above ground and rear roll center will lie 8-12 inches above ground.

http://www.nevadaracing.com/area51/chassis.htm

If lowering the car negatively impacts the suspension geometry the good news is that it's an easy and inexpensive fix. Companies like Whiteline, Eibach and Perrin all sell roll-center kits. Here's one for Ford Mustangs...

http://www.globalperformanceparts.com/performance-auto-parts/whiteline-roll-center-bump-steer-adjustment-kit/

I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass but the reality is that the CTS-V's very advanced and expensive magnetic ride control suspension went through hundred of hours of R&D, testing and tracking before GM released the final product. Fitting a set of highly strung springs on the car to lower it for aesthetic purposes is fine. I'd just want to know how much R&D went into maintaining and/or improving the car's handling characteristics. I've yet to read anything geared toward track enthusiasts. :cynic:

GMX322V S/C
02-22-10, 02:42 AM
^^^^
From the same source:

Center Of Gravity Height - is the geometric center of weight location of the vehicle. The CGH is the point above the ground at which this exists. All forces of acceleration, lateral acceleration and deceleration act on the entire car though this CGH. The lower the CGH, the better the cornering ability of the vehicle. Production vehicles have a CGH from 18 to 25 inches above the ground. When componets are rearranged the total vehicle lowered, the stock cars racer’s CGH can be 14.5 to 17 inches.The roll axis is determined by the suspension geometry and it's lower than the CGH; since installing shorter springs doesn't change the suspension geometry (mount points, pivot points and the distances between them), the roll axis remains unchanged. The shorter springs DO however, lower the CGH--bringing it closer to the roll axis, resulting in a lower body roll angle with a given lateral acceleration.

Steiner
02-22-10, 11:27 AM
I'm sorry but that's not correct

Steiner
02-22-10, 04:36 PM
This diagram does a good job of explaining it...

http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_rollcenter.jpg

rjoffe
02-22-10, 05:23 PM
bad link ?

thebigjimsho
02-22-10, 06:30 PM
bad link ?
Yeah, I had to replace the end links before...

RogersV
02-22-10, 06:45 PM
Yeah, I had to replace the end links before...

:histeric: :thepan: :hide:

GMX322V S/C
02-22-10, 08:11 PM
I'm sorry but that's not correct


This diagram does a good job of explaining it...

http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_rollcenter.jpgHere's a better link for describing roll centers: http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_rollcenter.htm#rearrc

...of course the method of calculation would be different for the CTS-V (SLA vs. MacPherson Strut + live axle), but the principle remains the same.

That site also has a nice illustration of how shortening the springs with an SLA suspension doesn't affect suspension geometry (no camber change) as it does with a MacPherson Strut suspension: http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension.htm#Curve.

So unless the CTS-V's roll center is actually higher than its CGH (think about it: how could this possibly ever be true?), lowering its CGH and bringing it closer to its roll center will result in less lean through turns.

Steiner
02-22-10, 11:17 PM
Thanks GMX322V S/C!!! That makes perfect sense. Much appreciated. The entirety of my suspension modification experience has been with a traditional MacPherson.


bad link ?Here's a better one. Apparently that other URL didn't like to be hot linked...

http://image.modified.com/f/17363212/0508_sccp_02_z_+suspension+roll_center.jpg

Dr. Design
02-23-10, 06:22 PM
Hello,
Just a quick FYI, we are now on back order with the 09/10 CTS-V lowering springs. Thank you all that have placed orders and we hope that you enjoy these new springs.

We are also accepting orders for those of you how are still in need of the lowering springs. ETA is about 4-6 weeks for our next container. Please note we will most likely sell out of those as well. Please be sure to place your order now to ensure that you get lowering springs at that time. We will not charge your account until the item is ready to ship to you. Let us know if there are any questions.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac

bruff1977
03-02-10, 11:13 PM
Hello,
Just a quick FYI, we are now on back order with the 09/10 CTS-V lowering springs. Thank you all that have placed orders and we hope that you enjoy these new springs.

We are also accepting orders for those of you how are still in need of the lowering springs. ETA is about 4-6 weeks for our next container. Please note we will most likely sell out of those as well. Please be sure to place your order now to ensure that you get lowering springs at that time. We will not charge your account until the item is ready to ship to you. Let us know if there are any questions.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac

I have a few questions about these springs and other items you have. Does anyone check the inquiries on your website??

wfo
03-03-10, 03:50 PM
We're over thinking this. The glass half full or half empty.

Bottomline for me is, these springs respond beautifully at speeds and sharp turns. I have no complaints. Those of you who wish to argue the point to exhaustion feel free to do so. I'm enjoying the car at it's new altitude nd it's look. It rides tight and right. Now go on with your discussion.

Umrswimr
03-03-10, 04:17 PM
Was there any track testing done with these springs? I see "increase cornering speed" listed as a benefit of these springs, but was this actually tested?

Tony407
03-03-10, 04:37 PM
I remember commenting on a similar thread many months ago before I even took delivery of my V. Remembering that the V set a world record for the fastest sedan around the Nurburgring, at the stock ride height with all its glorious OEM body lean, I am skeptical that a set of "lowering springs" will somehow give us better lap times. But what do I know...I'm just an enthusiast. However, from an aesthetic standpoint and for a more aggressive, tight, athletic feel I am eagerly anticipating the installation of my springs.

What would be nice is if someone here could do a controlled comparison at their local track for a before vs. after spring install. That would be very interesting indeed. And while we're at it, with a stiffer rear sway bar too!!

Tony

Dr. Design
03-04-10, 06:18 PM
Hello,
Yes we do check our emails for the website. However given the volume of emails we get on a daily basis, it may take us a couple of days to get a response out. What questions do you have?

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac


I have a few questions about these springs and other items you have. Does anyone check the inquiries on your website??

Razorecko
03-04-10, 06:21 PM
B&G ( manufacterur of these springs ) just called me to verify i had the right springs. They are left with an odd #. So everyone that hasn't put them in yet make sure you have two of each F&R.

Tony407
03-04-10, 06:59 PM
B&G ( manufacterur of these springs ) just called me to verify i had the right springs. They are left with an odd #. So everyone that hasn't put them in yet make sure you have two of each F&R.

I got the same phone call today and I am happy to announce that I am the odd one out. I had 4 rear springs in my box. Hopefully they can overnight fed-ex me the front ones because I have an appointment set up Monday morning to have them installed. At least they called today, because I would have been very upset had I got a call from the install shop Monday after I dropped my car off... LOL

Tony

Razorecko
03-04-10, 08:07 PM
I got the same phone call today and I am happy to announce that I am the odd one out. I had 4 rear springs in my box. Hopefully they can overnight fed-ex me the front ones because I have an appointment set up Monday morning to have them installed. At least they called today, because I would have been very upset had I got a call from the install shop Monday after I dropped my car off... LOL

Tony

lol, thats exactly what i said.

Tony407
03-07-10, 12:03 AM
I got the same phone call today and I am happy to announce that I am the odd one out. I had 4 rear springs in my box. Hopefully they can overnight fed-ex me the front ones because I have an appointment set up Monday morning to have them installed. At least they called today, because I would have been very upset had I got a call from the install shop Monday after I dropped my car off... LOL

Tony

Not very happy with D3/B&G Suspension. Instead of over night delivery as they indicated they would, they sent them regular delivery. I had to re-schedule my appointment to get them installed.

Tony

cbloveday
03-07-10, 07:57 AM
Not good. Sorry to hear this. Tone, let us know how you like the new springs after you have had some time with em.

nradcad
03-07-10, 12:40 PM
Are there anymore for immediate shipping?

Titaniumseeker
03-07-10, 03:39 PM
B&G ( manufacterur of these springs ) just called me to verify i had the right springs. They are left with an odd #. So everyone that hasn't put them in yet make sure you have two of each F&R.

I had a similar call but mine were ok and already installed.

Dr. Design
03-08-10, 09:22 PM
Hello,
We are very sorry about this. The stamping on the new springs were overlooked when the kits were being boxed at BG's factory. But they have everything squared away now. Not quite sure why the correct springs were not sent overnight to you like they should have.... Again we are sorry for the inconvenience. Check your email.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac




Not very happy with D3/B&G Suspension. Instead of over night delivery as they indicated they would, they sent them regular delivery. I had to re-schedule my appointment to get them installed.

Tony

bruff1977
03-10-10, 11:36 AM
Hello,
Yes we do check our emails for the website. However given the volume of emails we get on a daily basis, it may take us a couple of days to get a response out. What questions do you have?

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac

Thanks. I originally sent the email inquiry about a month ago. I'll address the questions again through your website.

vett1002
03-10-10, 01:56 PM
does anyone know the average cost as to getting these springs installed?

Dr. Design
03-10-10, 07:56 PM
Hello,
Average install time is 4-5 hours. Rates depend on the labor rate of the installer. Please let us know if you have any questions.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac


does anyone know the average cost as to getting these springs installed?

Tony407
03-10-10, 08:15 PM
does anyone know the average cost as to getting these springs installed?

$250 + whatever an alignment will cost. This is what I'm being charged.

Tony

thebigjimsho
03-10-10, 10:23 PM
You need an alignment?

Tony407
03-10-10, 10:33 PM
You need an alignment?

Well, I'm no lowering expert, but every car I've ever lowered I have had an alignment done as part of the install.

Tony

GMX322V S/C
03-10-10, 10:51 PM
^^^
Same here; maybe not as important with an SLA-type of suspension, but I would think prudent nonetheless.

v4meinsandiego
03-10-10, 11:48 PM
You need an alignment?

Yes you need to align the car unless you want improper tire wear.

thebigjimsho
03-10-10, 11:58 PM
Unless you need an alignment in general, you don't need one when lowering...

Tony407
03-11-10, 12:06 AM
Unless you need an alignment in general, you don't need one when lowering...

Can you elaborate on this? Every professional I've done business with has virtually mandated a post-lowering alignment. In most cases, the shop that installs the springs isn't even the one doing the alignment, so I can't imagine their recommendation is financially motivated.

Tony

GMX322V S/C
03-11-10, 12:22 AM
With a MacPherson Strut-type of suspension, lowering it will induce a permanent negative camber change; if the camber is adjustable, you'd want to adjust it back to a nominal setting. SLA-type suspensions like our Vs have are designed to minimize geometry changes through the range of suspension travel, so an alignment isn't needed to the extent that the suspension design minimizes geometry changes.

Tony407
03-11-10, 12:51 AM
With a MacPherson Strut-type of suspension, lowering it will induce a permanent negative camber change; if the camber is adjustable, you'd want to adjust it back to a nominal setting. SLA-type suspensions like our Vs have are designed to minimize geometry changes through the range of suspension travel, so an alignment isn't needed to the extent that the suspension design minimizes geometry changes.

After doing some Googling and reading, what you are saying seems to make common sense. However, do you know of any reliable Internet source that specifically states that SLA suspensions do not require alignments after lowering? I do not want to pay for something I don't need. Even worse is knowing that an alignment shop somewhere is getting my car tomorrow with instructions from the spring install shop to give it an alignment. If they know it's not necessary just from their knowledge of the Vs suspension type, will the alignment shop leave my car parked outside and never even look at it and still charge me for it?

Someone from D3? Do you recommend an alignment after installing these springs?

Tony

Gary Wells
03-11-10, 04:54 AM
After doing some Googling and reading, what you are saying seems to make common sense. However, do you know of any reliable Internet source that specifically states that SLA suspensions do not require alignments after lowering? I do not want to pay for something I don't need. Even worse is knowing that an alignment shop somewhere is getting my car tomorrow with instructions from the spring install shop to give it an alignment. If they know it's not necessary just from their knowledge of the Vs suspension type, will the alignment shop leave my car parked outside and never even look at it and still charge me for it?

Someone from D3? Do you recommend an alignment after installing these springs?

Tony

Tony:
If the shop that installs the springs makes arrangements and contracts for an alignment shop to do the alignment, then it probably is financially motivated as there will probably be a sublet charge. Tell the installation shop that you will make arrangements for and contract the alignment shop of your choice yourself as necessary.

Q8 6.2
03-11-10, 09:15 AM
wow my springs finally arrived today cant wait to install them.. wife will not be allowed to drive the V any more :thumbsup: :)

thebigjimsho
03-11-10, 11:14 AM
With a MacPherson Strut-type of suspension, lowering it will induce a permanent negative camber change; if the camber is adjustable, you'd want to adjust it back to a nominal setting. SLA-type suspensions like our Vs have are designed to minimize geometry changes through the range of suspension travel, so an alignment isn't needed to the extent that the suspension design minimizes geometry changes.
Thank you!


Slam a V1 to the ground and you won't eyeball any noticeable camber change. The V2 is a similar setup.

Tony407
03-11-10, 03:01 PM
Tony:
If the shop that installs the springs makes arrangements and contracts for an alignment shop to do the alignment, then it probably is financially motivated as there will probably be a sublet charge. Tell the installation shop that you will make arrangements for and contract the alignment shop of your choice yourself as necessary.

Yes, this is excellent advice, Gary. I was thinking about this last night.

I just got some wonderful news. The shop just called and left a message saying they had broke a bushing off the rear sway bar and had to order a new bolt, which will not be here until Monday. I am too upset to even call them back at this point.

Still, I am looking for some definitive information about SLA suspensions, lowering, and alignments. Maybe I'll call D3.

Tony

Gary Wells
03-11-10, 03:18 PM
I think that James at D3 would be an excellent choice for an independent opinion. He generally checks on the forum 1 or 2 a day. Maybe a PM?
I would be upset also, about the bolt, but not to the point that I would not want to go down there and check things out ASAP. HTH

Tony407
03-11-10, 04:29 PM
I think that James at D3 would be an excellent choice for an independent opinion. He generally checks on the forum 1 or 2 a day. Maybe a PM?
I would be upset also, about the bolt, but not to the point that I would not want to go down there and check things out ASAP. HTH

I have a final in one of my classes today that I've been studying for. I really don't have time to deal with them this morning. I'll stop by the shop after my class.

Tony

Dr. Design
03-11-10, 04:46 PM
Hello Tony,
That is obviously not good news about the bolt breaking. If you need one let us know as we can order one up for you. But your local dealership should be able to get one pretty quickly also.

As for the lowering the vehicle and needing an alignment. We always suggest that the alignment is done post alteration. When lowering this vehicle you will have a slight increase in negative camber, slight changes to the toe, and caster. Unless you dont care about your tire wear, you should always have an alignment done after lowering a vehicle.

Let us know if there are any questions.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac


Yes, this is excellent advice, Gary. I was thinking about this last night.

I just got some wonderful news. The shop just called and left a message saying they had broke a bushing off the rear sway bar and had to order a new bolt, which will not be here until Monday. I am too upset to even call them back at this point.

Still, I am looking for some definitive information about SLA suspensions, lowering, and alignments. Maybe I'll call D3.

Tony

readyact
03-11-10, 04:55 PM
Well I guess the debate is over. This forum is great!!!!!!!!

thebigjimsho
03-11-10, 05:33 PM
Is it? I always say that you can never have too many alignments. However, I don't see how caster or toe changes at all when installing lowering springs. D3 benefits in telling you to get an alignment because if it is off before installing the springs, the springs would be the first thing to blame if tire wear went crazy.

GMX322V S/C
03-11-10, 05:40 PM
After doing some Googling and reading, what you are saying seems to make common sense. However, do you know of any reliable Internet source that specifically states that SLA suspensions do not require alignments after lowering? I do not want to pay for something I don't need. Even worse is knowing that an alignment shop somewhere is getting my car tomorrow with instructions from the spring install shop to give it an alignment. If they know it's not necessary just from their knowledge of the Vs suspension type, will the alignment shop leave my car parked outside and never even look at it and still charge me for it?

Someone from D3? Do you recommend an alignment after installing these springs?

TonyD3 beat me to it, but this part of my response to you was poorly worded: "SLA-type suspensions like our Vs have are designed to minimize geometry changes through the range of suspension travel, so an alignment isn't needed to the extent that the suspension design minimizes geometry changes."

I should have also stated that some geometry changes through the course of travel are deliberately designed in or inherent to the design and are meant to be transient and not permanent--you'll want to reset to within those optimum values after a change in ride height.

Now that we know there are (or at least could be) slight changes that come with lowering, it would be prudent to "dial her back in."

Tony407
03-11-10, 07:36 PM
I spoke with James at D3 today and would like to elaborate on his online explanation. Basically he told me that when installing springs on the V you are literally taking apart suspension components and thus can lead to changes in camber, caster, toe in, etc. He told me he currently had a V2 in the shop getting lowering springs and said that during a post-install alignment, there were some significant deviations in the above-mentioned areas. So debate away, but unless someone has better credentials or can point to a reliable Internet source that says differently, then I'll maintain my original stance of continuing to get an alignment after a spring install in any of my cars. If the argument is presented that maybe these variations were present BEFORE the install and thus couldn't have been CAUSED by the install, then I will certainly love to see some firm proof of this. I certainly know much less about suspension components than many of you here, but I would hope James at D3 would know more than most of us.

Regarding the broken bolt. Evidently two of them broke, one in the front and one in the back. They are on the end links for the sway bars. The owner of the shop that's doing the install said he got some good technical support from D3 and some other sources as to why the bolts broke on such a new car. Their theory is that the bolts, being manufactured in Mexico, are cheap and poorly made. He showed me the bolts and from looking at where they were located, I can't see how the shop could have screwed up unless they really didn't know that they were doing (which I doubt) in removing them and can only conclude that they were indeed cheap bolts. Replacements are on the way, hopefully better quality ones. Who knows...maybe they were over-torqued from the factory?

On a side note, the shop indicated that trying to get help from B&G Suspension (springs manufacturer) was like trying to pull teeth, as if they were bothering them. Unfortunately, this was also my inclination in speaking with them after the spring mix-up. Anyway, I just wanted to include this here for James and others at D3 to see since they have a representative business relationship with B&G.

Thanks for your help today, James!

Tony

Razorecko
03-13-10, 10:08 AM
Well if there are issues with B&G I'll say that " Road Magnet " is an incredible manufacturer of lowering springs also and there customer service is great....( had their springs on my old jeep srt8 after getting rid of horrible eibachs )

nradcad
03-13-10, 10:18 AM
Would anyone use the Caddy dealer for this spring install?

Gary Wells
03-13-10, 11:41 AM
Depends upon how much faith one has in their Caddy dealer. Also would depend upon how much faith the Caddy dealer has in any of the aftermarket parts & products. I am fortunate that I have D3 about 6 or 7 miles from me. I am planning on using them for everything Caddy related.

rjoffe
03-16-10, 04:02 PM
Would anyone use the Caddy dealer for this spring install?

I would, but I have Lindsay as my dealer :cool2:

StoopidSavant
03-17-10, 02:55 PM
Regarding suspension geometry change during wheel travel, Autozine has some great diagrams to help get your head around the effects of different suspension layouts:

http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/handling/tech_handling_2.htm#Sus-design

Granted, it doesn't specifically address statically lowering a car, but at least it'll give you an idea of what happens to the geometry in compression. The rest of the Autozine Technical School is also a great read.

Tony407
03-18-10, 03:34 AM
Finally got the car back today. The stance is incredible. The ride feels very nice.

But there's a lot of noise coming from the front end. Sounds like muted knocking, heard mostly on the speed bumps and humps in my neighborhood, and when going under 30 mph on crappy roads. Lots of clunking. Not too loud, but still noticeable.

Tony

Razorecko
03-18-10, 11:23 AM
Finally got the car back today. The stance is incredible. The ride feels very nice.

But there's a lot of noise coming from the front end. Sounds like muted knocking, heard mostly on the speed bumps and humps in my neighborhood, and when going under 30 mph on crappy roads. Lots of clunking. Not too loud, but still noticeable.

Tony

Hmmm..thats not good. Did you get it alligned after install ?

Dr. Design
03-18-10, 11:48 AM
Hello Tony,
Glad to hear the cars stance is looking good and rides nice.

As for the noise you are hearing in the front. You will want to have the installing shop take a look at their install as you should not have any noises coming from the springs. If the top plate on the strut assembly is not tightened down all the way or the spring is not against the stop on the perch, it could potentially make noise. I would have them double check their work and tighten the areas in which they worked on.

Let us know if there are any questions.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac


Finally got the car back today. The stance is incredible. The ride feels very nice.

But there's a lot of noise coming from the front end. Sounds like muted knocking, heard mostly on the speed bumps and humps in my neighborhood, and when going under 30 mph on crappy roads. Lots of clunking. Not too loud, but still noticeable.

Tony

GMX322V S/C
03-18-10, 01:38 PM
Finally got the car back today. The stance is incredible. The ride feels very nice.

But there's a lot of noise coming from the front end. Sounds like muted knocking, heard mostly on the speed bumps and humps in my neighborhood, and when going under 30 mph on crappy roads. Lots of clunking. Not too loud, but still noticeable.

TonyOn a different car car I lowered, one of the springs was creaking in its perch under the exact situations you describe. The fix was to shoot some rubber-safe (the perch seats are rubber in that car) lubricant on to the perches. Never came back.

If it seems to be more pronounced when both wheels move up and down at the same time, it could be the stabilizer bar mounts are loose or binding; if it's when only one wheel moves at a time it could be one of the end links...

Q8 6.2
03-18-10, 06:47 PM
i think i wass the last one to place an order for the D3 springs, installed them today and wow they are so perfectly balanced and look really really good. went to a friend who installed my 350z springs before and i was expecting him to say no way cant touch this Cadillac... well he put it on a lift took a look under the car and said no problem leave it and come back in 2 hours omg i cant believe it went back 2 hours later and car was ready..

cant believe i didnt do this mod earlier absolutely one of the top CTS-V mods

1-2-N-V
03-22-10, 03:42 PM
After reading this entire thread I am concerned that lowering the car even an inch or so would disrupt the geometry of the suspension. Now the control arms are in a different position , shock travel, bump stops yada yada. Maybe an inch doesn't matter? What about drop spindles or special ball joints to offset this control arm angle issue.

i love the look of the lowered car and i can i know that LCG always helps handling but I'm concerned that this is has not been thoroughly thought out. I think i could speak for nearly all here that this may be an issue for them too.

What i would like to see is performance data. Ride height is good to know (pictures pretty much sum that up) Spring rate? A bit more stiff would be better. Any upgrades for Sway Bars in the works? Would love to take a bit more roll out for the track days. And will any off this affect wheel hop when launching (for all you 1320' boys out there) by changing any of these dimensions?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks,
Mike

wfo
03-22-10, 06:05 PM
I've had my D3 springs on for 2 months now and I am so satisfied with the look and the "no compromise" ride quality. My installer is my Vette Tuner Quality Motorsports, Lewisville, Texas. They are well know on the Z06 Corvette Forum. The owner also has an 09 silver V. He was an influence and big reason I now have a sweet 09 V.

This car is the most under ratd HiPO ride out there on the streets these days. People have absolutely no clue of the shere awesomeness of what we're driving out there. Too bad...they're missign out on all this wonderful driving pleasure.

IMHO, GM/Cadillac needs to market this car so much better. I do understand that marketing costs being what they are and GM in the pervrbial dumps contributes a lack luster promo. At this point it seems GM/Cadillac rely only on big city car expos to get the word out.

This car needs to be seen on the 6 o'clock and 8 o'clock hour roaring past, with a well selected blend of music blasting from the Bose systme enveloping the driver in a world of crazy muscle, sport touring perfomance heaven. The brakes, the Recaro's, the fat tires, the whine of the supercharger... something.

What say you?

thebigjimsho
03-22-10, 09:13 PM
I say I've never seen AMG or M or F or RS commercials on TV. It's by print and enthusiast driven...

Dr. Design
04-14-10, 10:06 PM
Just a quick FYI, we now have these lowering springs in stock again and have begun shipping all the backorders. Please note we had more units manufactured, but we still project we will sell out. Please make sure you get your order in.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac

thebigjimsho
05-28-10, 07:47 PM
bump!