: New Supercharger T.S.B. READ:



bouser
12-29-09, 03:20 PM
I took my 09 V to the dealer this afternoon as I was concerned that I could hear the rattle in the car. It has been on the road a month and has 1400 miles on it. The new T.S.B. # is PIP4523A. The old number was the same without the A. Long story short if you can hear the noise without the hood being opened and it does not go away after 1200rpm but goes away when the belt is removed
the Supercharger needs to be replaced. When the Dealer called G.M. they told him to give me a loaner as the Supercharger could come apart and destroy the engine. Note: this is for both the V and ZR1 vette. And only for 2009. The problem must be fixed for 2010. Hope this is a help Happy New Year.:banghead:

Mikevette
12-29-09, 03:43 PM
Thanks Bouser, I went to the dealership when I first purchased my V due to the SC rattle. For a 70k vehicle we shouldn't be hearing any rattles. They did your mentioned test via GM guidance and Ops Normal was their reply so I had to deal with it. You see it on people's faces when you are setting around and people want to hear our cars idle then they walk to the front and notice this annoying rattle noise and they bring it up as "what's that rattle all about". I mentioned it on the ZR1 forum and got some reply's that they were quit as a mouse or they were just were hearing the fuel injectors/lifter noise. Thanks for post this TSB for us V owners. Now how many SC will be replaced by GM before they recend this TSB. Hell take away my rattle and give some SC whine and I'll be happy.

Mike P:cool2:.

zr1vet
12-29-09, 03:45 PM
Wow. That's interesting. Not at all like Ed Piatek wrote about. Wonder what changed?

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/185476-engineering-response-s-c-shaft-wear.html

:food-snacking:

Florian
12-29-09, 04:07 PM
ooooooooooohhhh, this may not end well...
I'd like to hear Ed's input on the TSB.


F

Mikevette
12-29-09, 04:20 PM
Very interesting, more to follow from Ed for sure. I'm going to look up this TSB # and print a copy just incase there's a mass gathering at our local dealership's to get more SC whine and no-rattle.

Mike P.:hmm:

bouser
12-29-09, 04:27 PM
Oh I forgot to mention, I was told there were none in the system and they may have to pull one off the line after the holiday. Any how they told me at least a week.

dvandentop
12-29-09, 04:34 PM
damn hope some peoples cars are not down for too long. and yea will be ineresting to see why the change of heart from gm

Mikevette
12-29-09, 04:37 PM
bouser

Did you :thumbsup:get a copy of this TSB? I tried to look it up on web and the GM TSB section has no mention of this TSB. Were can I go to get a copy of this TSB? I want to get a paper copy just incase I have to bring it to the dealership with me.

Thanks

Mike

PSRmark
12-29-09, 04:44 PM
Its about time! :thepan:

bouser
12-29-09, 04:55 PM
Yes I have a copy , the dealer gave it to me but I dont want to post it as it has a gm copy right on the bottom. Im sure if you go to a dealer with your rattle they will give you a copy. I am not allowed to send pms yet:canttalk:

lavaman
12-29-09, 05:05 PM
Thanks for the post Bouser!

Can you tell us the date of the TSB?

Doug

bouser
12-29-09, 05:15 PM
The only date on it is today, the day it was printed and it says "Please discard PIP4523" It does not say TSB it says PI maybe someone can tell an old man what that means.:hmm:

asabase
12-29-09, 06:17 PM
My guess is preliminary investigation.

ewill3rd
12-29-09, 06:29 PM
That is a PI, "preliminary information" is what it stands for.
Techncially it is not a TSB because it hasn't been "validated" and the text is supposed to remain internal afaik. When it is validated and made into a TSB it will include more information usually such as part numbers and labor operations. PI's kind of suck because they don't have any of that.

We used to have to make a phone call to get this information but they added it to SI to help us out and reduce call volume to TAC.
Basically the OP gave a good overview of the procedure in the PI.
I have not done one and I was directed here by a member so I thought I'd fill in the blanks.

The date on the PI is 3-20-09.... that must be the original version.

All TSB and PI documents with a letter on the end give us text to discard old versions. That is throwback text to back in the day where we stored all the TSB information in big binders by sub section. They just want us to be sure to use the most recent version of the document.
I would suspect that a very low number of vehicles will be affected by this document.

Jeffrey
12-29-09, 06:33 PM
The date on the PI is 3-20-09.... that must be the original version.

I would suspect that a very low number of vehicles will be affected by this document.

Hi,

Would you suspect that all affected vehicles will have build dates before 4/09?

Thanks,
Jeffrey

neuronbob
12-29-09, 06:43 PM
Looks like wait4me was right....though he doesn't seem to be the sort of guy who would say "I told you so".

Replacing the whole supercharger, though? Isn't that a bit extreme for just an isolator? Or are they just replacing the OP's to study the issue further? Or is this a different issue?

I don't hear a rattle, so I'll wait until the next oil change to deal with it. I guess I'm lucky.

CTSVeee
12-29-09, 07:18 PM
I hear a rattle during idle and also hear a clunk when I shut her down. I took the car back to the dealer 5 days after I bought it to have the car detailed as it was dirty when I drove it off the lot. I asked them to look at the rattle and clunk. When I came back to pick it up the service adviser said that the tech said it this was normal and they all do that. I knew that was not true.

I'll keep an eye on this thread.

ewill3rd
12-29-09, 07:19 PM
I don't think the publication date would have anything to do with the actual production issue (if there is one).
I am not sure what the original document said either so....
Hard to say.

vseries
12-29-09, 08:04 PM
:pop2:

sub-scwibed

backup
12-29-09, 08:06 PM
Hmm, seems very odd. Only applies to 2009 and not 2010? We know of no changes to the mechanicals for 2010. If there was a running change in 2009, perhaps it coincided with the supercharger cover change to the flat design. My 04/09 build date has the cover change (flat cover) and is quiet as can be with 5000 miles. No rattle at all so far. Just a guess...

IRONDOG
12-29-09, 08:25 PM
I took my 09 V to the dealer this afternoon as I was concerned that I could hear the rattle in the car. It has been on the road a month and has 1400 miles on it. The new T.S.B. # is PIP4523A. The old number was the same without the A. Long story short if you can hear the noise without the hood being opened and it does not go away after 1200rpm but goes away when the belt is removed
the Supercharger needs to be replaced. When the Dealer called G.M. they told him to give me a loaner as the Supercharger could come apart and destroy the engine. Note: this is for both the V and ZR1 vette. And only for 2009. The problem must be fixed for 2010. Hope this is a help Happy New Year.:banghead:


Scott Pratt from Superior Cadillac, do you know anything about this issue? Have any of the 300 plus cars you have sold had superchargers replaced based on this issue? Please advise.

Razorecko
12-29-09, 08:50 PM
the v's still have relatively low mileage from '09. Mechanical issues like this will usually rear up badly around 30k+ on miles. I didnt hear mine for the first few thousand but now with 12k its noticeable. My dealer gave me the "injector firing off noise" b.s.

CoOlSlY
12-29-09, 09:14 PM
I think somebody should post the PI/TSB or whatever ... It's not like if we are stealing something, we are sharing valuable information IMO.

GMX322V S/C
12-29-09, 09:18 PM
...Long story short if you can hear the noise without the hood being opened and it does not go away after 1200rpm but goes away when the belt is removed the Supercharger needs to be replaced...

...Would you suspect that all affected vehicles will have build dates before 4/09?What's disheartening is, even after 9 months, there is no indication that an engineering change was slip-streamed in; if the fundamental design remains flawed, it could turn into our version of the V1's differential problem. Furthermore, since the isolator is considered a non-serviceable part with warranty implications, we might actually run the risk of introducing different problems by requiring the whole assembly to be replaced (search for "STS-V" "supercharger" posts by fellow forum member CIWS). If we were all fortunate enough to have a Lindsay Cadillac in our back yards, my concern would be unfounded...

Razorecko
12-29-09, 09:27 PM
What's disheartening is, even after 9 months, there is no indication that an engineering change was slip-streamed in; if the fundamental design remains flawed, it could turn into our version of the V1's differential problem. Furthermore, since the isolator is considered a non-serviceable part with warranty implications, we might actually run the risk of introducing different problems by requiring the whole assembly to be replaced (search for "STS-V" "supercharger" posts by fellow forum member CIWS). If we were all fortunate enough to have a Lindsay Cadillac in our back yards, my concern would be unfounded...

ahh now think about this....was it really slipstreamed when our '09's were " old gm " ??

Gary Wells
12-29-09, 09:44 PM
Well, I'm going to go camp out at my dealers tonight so I can be first in line for tomorrow, how about you guys? The last estimate that I saw was about 3500 of these cars sold and that was somewhat before the end of the year. Anybody care to guess how many out there currently have the isolator issue and just have not reported it to their dealer yet? I am sure that the supercharger builder (Eaton?) has plenty extra superchargers to replace the ones that GM is going to send them. I do hope that for the sake of everybody with this issue, GM does step up to the plate on this. Not to be a pessimist but I think that I will wait until I hear or see proof that someone has actually had their *charger* replaced and their car is back in their hands.

commander112
12-29-09, 10:03 PM
I think some of you guys are overreacting. Someone comes on here and says something about a suposed TSB that says to replace a supercharger if certain conditions are met or it may blow up and you guys start in with chants that "the sky is falling" when in fact, it is not. I don't believe that I have seen one post here of a supercharger failure and I'm sure that if these things were failing we would all be here talking about it. Does my supercharger sound like it is chewing rocks at idle? Like nearly all of you, yes. But until I see real proof that there is a fix for the condition I don't think that I am going to go camping at the dealer. If these things were coming apart and taking out motors I'm pretty sure that GM would have us in there for a recall. Replacing a supercharger is far cheaper than replacing a whole motor and supercharger. Hell, they sent me a recall notice about water potentially freezing and causing an issue with a door latch or something like that and this is a whole lot more serious than that. REMAIN CALM!
Oh, and by the way, this situation is far different than the differential issue from the V1. Many of those cars are running on original (perhaps noisy) diffs and when they break they do not take out another seriously expensive component. They simply leave you on the side of the road.

Mikevette
12-29-09, 10:03 PM
Bewteen Eaton and Gm someone is going to eat this insolator change/swapout. I hope the two of them will stand up and confirm this issue and correct the problem. Sure would ahte to start slaming GM/Eaton over a $50 part that can be changed early enough to proclude an SC swapout. If this effect's us how about the ZR1 guys who paid twice as much for their vettes than we did. You can beat that they kiss their butts to ensure that they are happy due to their fiancial status and they have good lawyers standing in the wings waiting to bounce for the big law suit. I'll be watcching this issue closely.

Mike :want:

Razorecko
12-29-09, 10:21 PM
I think some of you guys are overreacting. Someone comes on here and says something about a suposed TSB that says to replace a supercharger if certain conditions are met or it may blow up and you guys start in with chants that "the sky is falling" when in fact, it is not. I don't believe that I have seen one post here of a supercharger failure and I'm sure that if these things were failing we would all be here talking about it. Does my supercharger sound like it is chewing rocks at idle? Like nearly all of you, yes. But until I see real proof that there is a fix for the condition I don't think that I am going to go camping at the dealer. If these things were coming apart and taking out motors I'm pretty sure that GM would have us in there for a recall. Replacing a supercharger is far cheaper than replacing a whole motor and supercharger. Hell, they sent me a recall notice about water potentially freezing and causing an issue with a door latch or something like that and this is a whole lot more serious than that. REMAIN CALM!
Oh, and by the way, this situation is far different than the differential issue from the V1. Many of those cars are running on original (perhaps noisy) diffs and when they break they do not take out another seriously expensive component. They simply leave you on the side of the road.

woah woah ....what recall freezing in the door ?? I have water leakage in my drivers side door that coats the side of the dash pressed up on the door. My dealer "hosed' it and said it was airtight. This was months ago. Now in the freezing weather i open the door and see ice crystals where they shouldnt be...

Titaniumseeker
12-29-09, 10:22 PM
I will be making my way to the dealer myself this week. I have been hearing this rattling at idle for some time now and I know that this is not normal. Fortunately, Lindsay is my dealer so I will see what they say.

ecorpuz12
12-29-09, 10:29 PM
2200 miles on mine...only irregular sound i hear is the stupid sunroof cover crackling...and something vibrating in the B pillar somewhere. hopefully this SC issue is not as widespread as many think.

Gary Wells
12-29-09, 10:32 PM
I think some of you guys are overreacting. Someone comes on here and says something about a suposed TSB that says to replace a supercharger if certain conditions are met or it may blow up and you guys start in with chants that "the sky is falling" when in fact, it is not. I don't believe that I have seen one post here of a supercharger failure and I'm sure that if these things were failing we would all be here talking about it. Does my supercharger sound like it is chewing rocks at idle? Like nearly all of you, yes. But until I see real proof that there is a fix for the condition I don't think that I am going to go camping at the dealer. If these things were coming apart and taking out motors I'm pretty sure that GM would have us in there for a recall. Replacing a supercharger is far cheaper than replacing a whole motor and supercharger. Hell, they sent me a recall notice about water potentially freezing and causing an issue with a door latch or something like that and this is a whole lot more serious than that. REMAIN CALM!
Oh, and by the way, this situation is far different than the differential issue from the V1. Many of those cars are running on original (perhaps noisy) diffs and when they break they do not take out another seriously expensive component. They simply leave you on the side of the road.

Chill out, Commander, I was only kidding. I am not going to camp out at my dealers tonight. I was planning on calling you and asking if you would hold my place in line till I get there. Oh, heck, where's my sleeping bag at?

4gear70
12-29-09, 11:19 PM
Replacing the whole supercharger, though? Isn't that a bit extreme for just an isolator? Or are they just replacing the OP's to study the issue further? Or is this a different issue?

I don't hear a rattle, so I'll wait until the next oil change to deal with it. I guess I'm lucky.

I've looked through the service manuals and there is no procedure for taking appart or even breakdown drawings of the snout of the supercharger. It appears to be a non-servicable component from Eaton.
I've heard a slight ticking coming from under the hood during cold idle and low revs and I've listened carefully with my automotive stethoscope. The sound (on my vehicle) is coming from the lifters, valves and injectors... not the superchager. I don't have what is being described as a rattle sound and after listening to many engines in my life, these (my particular engine) sounds don't appear to be of a serious nature. However, that's not dismissing or saying that nobody else is actually having any 'serious' rattles or rocks in a can sound. I hope that anyone actually experiencing this condition gets it corrected by their dealer.

On a side not, my '05 V actually sounded 'clackier' as some of the lifters were bleeding down faster than others. Exhaust leaks can also sound like valvetrain noise but that's not typical of cars this new.

Razorecko
12-29-09, 11:31 PM
I've looked through the service manuals and there is no procedure for taking appart or even breakdown drawings of the snout of the supercharger. It appears to be a non-servicable component from Eaton.
I've heard a slight ticking coming from under the hood during cold idle and low revs and I've listened carefully with my automotive stethoscope. The sound (on my vehicle) is coming from the lifters, valves and injectors... not the superchager. I don't have what is being described as a rattle sound and after listening to many engines in my life, these (my particular engine) sounds don't appear to be of a serious nature. However, that's not dismissing or saying that nobody else is actually having any 'serious' rattles or rocks in a can sound. I hope that anyone actually experiencing this condition gets it corrected by their dealer.

On a side not, my '05 V actually sounded 'clackier' as some of the lifters were bleeding down faster than others. Exhaust leaks can also sound like valvetrain noise but that's not typical of cars this new.

Thats correct. The blower is not serviceable. This could explain any hesitance for gm to admit fault because this would be a very costly repair in labor time and equipment.

GMX322V S/C
12-30-09, 01:45 AM
...Oh, and by the way, this situation is far different than the differential issue from the V1. Many of those cars are running on original (perhaps noisy) diffs and when they break they do not take out another seriously expensive component. They simply leave you on the side of the road.What I was alluding to is there are also numerous accounts of repeat failures where the failed diffs were simply replaced with the same (or similar) parts over and over, never getting to the root cause (which, granted, was systemic and not the fault of a single part).

6104696
12-30-09, 07:50 AM
What I was alluding to is there are also numerous accounts of repeat failures where the failed diffs were simply replaced with the same (or similar) parts over and over, never getting to the root cause (which, granted, was systemic and not the fault of a single part).

I think the root cause was, in fact, a weak differential (the getrag unit was only rated for either 290 or 310 lb/ft). The overall chassis geometry didn't help since it caused wheel hop which beat the bejeezus out of the diff. Problem is there was/is no available retrofit. (though I have not had any problems with my original 2004 diff, yet).

At some point a member posted a poll to see how many '04-06 (or something like that) owners actually experienced diff failure or noise. Reading the forum you would have thought that everyone had a problem. The poll results, based on what I recall was a pretty big sampling, only reported about 12% of owners having a problem. 12% is way too high by any quality or relability measure, but it is quite far from 100%.

I wonder what the percentage is for this isolator rattle (i'm interested because my time is coming for my upgrade to a 2010)

ewill3rd
12-30-09, 07:55 AM
I had one person do some modification to the supercharger which required removal of the snout. Even though the service manual doesn't show how to take it apart or put it together it isn't that hard, but it uses an RTV type seal on the front so cleanup and prep were a nuisance, making sure the seal was good and no RTV was showing inside the supercharger were even more of a pain. It isn't hard but GM does not show a procedure for it and the supercharger has to come out.
Replacing the supercharger is much simpler on the V than on the XLR or STS versions. It ia an easier design to work with except for the intake manifold gaskets which have to be drilled off the manifold and the new ones riveted in place.

Comparing this to the diff issue on V1 is kind of jumping the gun.
First of all apart from some noise I haven't seen anyone say their supercharger came apart and the engine ingested chunks of metal. Okay it's noisy, GM seems to be looking into it, how long do they get to fix it to everyone's satisfaction? I mean they are closing divisions left and right, plants are going under, thousands of employees are out of jobs... but wait, someone's supercharger is making a little noise and annoying them!! Stop the production line!!! (sorry for the sarcasm, I think my point is well taken) Oh and BTW, I think most of GM is shut down for the holidays right now.
On a side note, the 3rd gen diff may not be impervious to failure but so far it has a pretty good track record as compared to the 1st or 2nd gen diff. The first two versions were prone to noise or catastrophic failure and it was replaced with a unit that holds up much better even though it may not be good for going up against Don Garlits.

These cars are under warranty and GM is researching the issue. GM Engineers are not known for setting any speed records coming up with fixes to problems... especially ones that cost money. Most of you have 3 years left on the warranty and I hate to say this but maybe you can put up with a little rattle noise on your 553 horsepower sports sedan for a couple of months or so. I know it is a lot to ask.
Before anybody bites my head off, rest assured that if any of these come to me I'll do my best to find out what is going on and get it fixed, but my hands are sort of tied. I am limited to what GM tells me to do and I am limited to the parts they give me.
I will also be sure to share any information regarding this or other issues on your cars just as I have done for a few years on this forum. I'd like for you guys to be happy with your cars certainly, but sadly GM doesn't check with me before they do things so often times they do something stupid.

One last thing to bear in mind is that if these superchargers are on restriction then I'll have to call PQC to get one. If that is the case they might be asking me for calibration numbers and CVN numbers and they are cracking down heavily on this procedure for engine and transmission related warranty repairs.
Granted if this turns into a full blow TSB or especially a Recall (which I doubt) then I won't have to jump through those hoops.

neuronbob
12-30-09, 08:13 AM
^^^^^
Well said. Out of the 2400 or so Vs on the road in the US, we have a small, though representative, sampling (a hundred maybe?) on this site. So far, we haven't heard about any catastrophic SC failures and hopefully we won't. I intend not to worry until GM comes up with a solution for us. I'm quite sure they will. If I do start to worry, I know there's already an aftermarket solution and I'll decide on the option at that time.

commander112
12-30-09, 08:19 AM
Razor, you got mail! Gary Wells, I was not directing my words at you although I did choose your words directly when I wrote my statement. I was simply pointing out that some appear to be getting carried away with their over reaction to this issue. Give it some time and chill out. It will all work out in the end.

Gary Wells
12-30-09, 08:31 AM
Razor, you got mail! Gary Wells, I was not directing my words at you although I did choose your words directly when I wrote my statement. I was simply pointing out that some appear to be getting carried away with their over reaction to this issue. Give it some time and chill out. It will all work out in the end.
Commander:
I'm not excited about it at all, other than for those that will get theirs fixed / replaced / repaired under factory warranty. I wish for everybody the best ion this issue, but I just don't see GM stepping up to the plate on this one as it is not their responsibility, and I don't see Eaton big enough nor having enough pocket personality to withstand the losses if it is decided to replace all of the noisy units. If they are / can be repaired and returned to service that might have different results over a long period of time. Now if Gm would attack the wheel clicking issue, that would be something.

Prof
12-30-09, 09:30 AM
...I haven't seen anyone say their supercharger came apart and the engine ingested chunks of metal. Okay it's noisy, GM seems to be looking into it, how long do they get to fix it to everyone's satisfaction?

These cars are under warranty and GM is researching the issue. GM Engineers are not known for setting any speed records coming up with fixes to problems... especially ones that cost money. Most of you have 3 years left on the warranty and I hate to say this but maybe you can put up with a little rattle noise on your 553 horsepower sports sedan for a couple of months or so.

I'm fine with that!

But then I have no noise at 12k...

I like reasonable and rational approaches...

Thanks for the perspective.

bouser
12-30-09, 10:19 AM
12K and no noise thats great. I posted on 12-7 about the noise as I heard it on the way home from the dealer with 200 miles on the car. Ar first I thought it was a loose tailpipe or something. My car was built 12-22-08 maybe the later cars are ok.

Vrocks
12-30-09, 10:28 AM
If this really is only related to the '09s, then the clicking noise shouldn't be an early sign of a major failure (I hope). My '10 clicks loudly sometimes when it's started in the cold. If I didn't know why it clicked I'd take it into the dealer but since I'm not planning on switching to a solid isolator, there's no point.

The way I look at it, if the SC fails and the engine is toast > I get a new engine. I'll be without the car for a couple weeks but in the end, it won't be that big a deal.

Nutz
12-30-09, 10:31 AM
These cars are under warranty and GM is researching the issue. GM Engineers are not known for setting any speed records coming up with fixes to problems... especially ones that cost money.



^^ Key words in this thread.

I just spoke to a close friend at a Cadillac dealer here in Ohio. He said that they just replaced a COMPLETE supercharger assy with a priority to send the old one back for research. My suggestion here is to WAIT and give them time to figure this out. Wait until we hear WHAT HAS BEEN DONE to address the problem. He also mentioned that the complete unit was much easier to remove than the snout assy. This is a minor problem so far for us and a major problem for them.

Prof
12-30-09, 10:33 AM
12K and no noise thats great. I posted on 12-7 about the noise as I heard it on the way home from the dealer with 200 miles on the car. Ar first I thought it was a loose tailpipe or something. My car was built 12-22-08 maybe the later cars are ok.

That's certainly possible...my build date is 04/09.

I am a "glass half full guy"... and I have confidence in the ethics of GM.

This is my first GM Vehicle in many years...and I bought it just as they were entering Chapter 11. My irrational motivation was purely nationalistic...(other than the fact that is is one incredible vehicle) and I remain committed to trying to build GM. Sorry, that's my story and I am sticking with it.

By the way, off thread...my Sotto's are wonderful in the northern Illinois and southern Wisconsin early winter!!!:worship::worship::worship:

JFJr
12-30-09, 12:12 PM
If this really is only related to the '09s, then the clicking noise shouldn't be an early sign of a major failure (I hope). My '10 clicks loudly sometimes when it's started in the cold. If I didn't know why it clicked I'd take it into the dealer but since I'm not planning on switching to a solid isolator, there's no point.I'm approaching 19,000 miles on my 12/17/08 build-date '09 and the engine runs quietly, except once it clicked a bit for a brief second or 2 while starting in the cold.

Vrocks
12-30-09, 01:17 PM
I'm approaching 19,000 miles on my 12/17/08 build-date '09 and the engine runs quietly, except once it clicked a bit for a brief second or 2 while starting in the cold.
It sounds like yours clicks alot less than mine (about 4K miles on it) - it clicks for minutes after I do a remote start.

It has one other other random mechanical noise once every 15 or 20 trips. It'll be about halfway warmed up (sitting in traffic) and it'll make a sound that's as if someone is tapping / bumping on the trunk (I have absolutely no clue on as to what it is).

JFJr
12-30-09, 01:51 PM
It sounds like yours clicks alot less than mine (about 4K miles on it) - it clicks for minutes after I do a remote start.If mine clicked that much, I would take it to the dealer and try to have it fixed. Even if the response is "that's normal," you should have it written up so that you have a record if you encounter a related problem after the warranty expires (assuming that the !00,000 mile powertrain warranty excludes the problem).

Vrocks
12-30-09, 03:39 PM
If mine clicked that much, I would take it to the dealer and try to have it fixed. Even if the response is "that's normal," you should have it written up so that you have a record if you encounter a related problem after the warranty expires (assuming that the !00,000 mile powertrain warranty excludes the problem).
I probably should but I don't feel like bringing it in and having a loaner car for a day or two. I just don't think there's much they can do right now (officially), so I'm going to wait for more news on this issue. The good thing is, I can't really hear it once I get in the car (radio off, ac/heat on).

GMX322V S/C
12-30-09, 04:05 PM
I had one person do some modification to the supercharger which required removal of the snout. Even though the service manual doesn't show how to take it apart or put it together it isn't that hard, but it uses an RTV type seal on the front so cleanup and prep were a nuisance, making sure the seal was good and no RTV was showing inside the supercharger were even more of a pain. It isn't hard but GM does not show a procedure for it and the supercharger has to come out...Oh well, moot point then. If the 'charger has to come out anyway, might as well replace it as an assembly...

ewill3rd
12-30-09, 04:17 PM
Yeah you can't remove the bolts for the snout with the supercharger installed. As I said it is pretty easy except for the gaskets.
I was surprised because this customer brought me his car in pieces but it was relatively easy to reassemble.

Jeffrey
12-30-09, 04:38 PM
It has one other other random mechanical noise once every 15 or 20 trips. It'll be about halfway warmed up (sitting in traffic) and it'll make a sound that's as if someone is tapping / bumping on the trunk (I have absolutely no clue on as to what it is).

Hi,

My V also makes that sound, once every 15 or 20 times, shortly after starting (while still in my driveway). I always look around expecting to find my wife ready to give me what for. I wish my V would stop scaring me like that.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

1-2-N-V
12-30-09, 05:01 PM
Let's watch and see mode too!

Vrocks
12-30-09, 06:40 PM
Hi,

My V also makes that sound, once every 15 or 20 times, shortly after starting (while still in my driveway). I always look around expecting to find my wife ready to give me what for. I wish my V would stop scaring me like that.

Best regards,
Jeffrey
haha! Yeah, I thought someone got out of theIr car and was trying to get my attention for something...

tedcmiller
12-30-09, 07:26 PM
I had a 2004, a 2005, and now have a 2009 CTS-V. I never had any problems (noise?) with the differential in the 2004 or 2005, and I have not had any problems with the SC in my 2009 CTS-V. Maybe I have just been lucky.

thebigjimsho
12-30-09, 09:09 PM
Scott Pratt from Superior Cadillac, do you know anything about this issue? Have any of the 300 plus cars you have sold had superchargers replaced based on this issue? Please advise.
Scott is a salesman. You've got a world-class Cadillac tech in here in ewill who can give you all the info available...

Ross L
12-30-09, 10:25 PM
I can live with a little blower noise:p. Yes, I can hear it a little at idle but to me it's a non-issue. Eaton is a known and widely used unit. I'm sure GM put hundreds of thousands of miles on the cars testing them. I wonder if the "shaft wear" is any greater at 100,000 miles vs 1000 miles. Probably not:hide:. If the noise was unbearable to would install the fix(solid isolator or whatever its called) and call it quits.
Ross

RapidRob
12-30-09, 10:51 PM
"PIP4523A", is not a recent publication/amendment/update. I discussed this in a thread back in September:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/179364-isolator-issue-4.html

Post #55.

Also, I talked about it in another post back in June, 2009, when my dealer printed out a copy for me. It's dated, "March 20, 2009", and was still labeled, "PIP4523A", at that time. In the write-up they don't even mention the isolator, or the shaft it rides on, just the noise at idle, and warn that the noise may be mistaken as a defective supercharger, causing possible, "unnecessary supercharger replacement".

Then they suggest doing the 1200 rpm/remove belt tests. Then they say that if the noise is still present at 1200 rpm, but is eliminated by removing the belt, "replace the supercharger by following SI procedures and re-evaluate the concern." I don't know what is meant by, "SI procedures".

HTH

Rob

Greg*
12-31-09, 03:23 AM
In case some of you are interested, here (http://www.lingenfelter.com/LPEforumfiles/showthread.php?t=130) is an illustration of Lingenfelters "fix" for the noisy SC issue.

ewill3rd
12-31-09, 08:59 AM
SI is "Service Information" or basically the manual.
What they are saying is "follow published replacement procedures".
In an ideal world the tech would at that point look up how to replace the supercharger and he'd replace the thing following the proper instructions including replacing seals as required and torquing bolts to specification.

bouser
12-31-09, 10:18 AM
Question? I dont think the dealer has much experience working on Vs if the tech follows the SI you think Ill be ok with the sc replacement?

Kadonny
12-31-09, 11:14 AM
woah woah ....what recall freezing in the door ?? I have water leakage in my drivers side door that coats the side of the dash pressed up on the door. My dealer "hosed' it and said it was airtight. This was months ago. Now in the freezing weather i open the door and see ice crystals where they shouldnt be...

FYI:

We have learned that your 2009 model year Cadillac CTS may have a condition where water may enter the front door latch and potentially freeze. If water enters the latch housing and freezes, you may not ba able to open the front doors using the outside door handle, or the door may not latch when the door is closed.

Your satisfaction with your CTS is very important to us, so we are announcing a program to prevent this condition from occurring.

What we Will Do: Your Cadillac dealer will seal the door latch housing on both front doors to prevent water intrusion. This service will be performed for you at no charge.

What You Should Do: We recommend that you contact your Cadillac dealer as soon as possible to schedule an appointment for this repair. Yada, yada, yada.




There you go, got the letter 2 days ago.

CIWS
12-31-09, 11:32 AM
With the exception of ewill and Lindsay, you really don't want the dealerships taking your engine apart trying to fix things until they know what's going on. They can end up messing things up worse, take my word for it. I would have pretty much been screwed too IF I had not already had baseline dyno runs on my car to show its performance before their work. It took those and extra runs to show the car was down 50-60rwhp after their reassembly and I had given it back to them to find what they messed up.

Thanks to info from PSRmark and my dyno runs that proved where the car was before they touched it finally got it fixed right. Without those dyno runs I'd be stuck with an under performing car now.

ewill3rd
12-31-09, 11:49 AM
If a competent tech is working on the car, they care about what they are doing, they have access to the special tools and they follow the published instructions they should be able to do it.
Those are a lot of ifs these days.

dvandentop
12-31-09, 12:13 PM
mine has the noise as i am driving it back to sd and i have 700 miles on it. only noticed noise after i took off engine cover to show a friend in missouri

dvandentop
12-31-09, 12:20 PM
btw i am enjoying the car too much to care about a noise i can only hear when right in front of the motor right now. if there is a tsb i will get it fixed but will wait til full repair process is made public.

neuronbob
12-31-09, 12:36 PM
^^^^^
CONGRATS...and welcome to the V club. :thumbsup: After reading your previous posts, I'm glad to see you followed through.

Gary Wells
12-31-09, 12:47 PM
With the exception of ewill and Lindsay, you really don't want the dealerships taking your engine apart trying to fix things until they know what's going on. They can end up messing things up worse, take my word for it. I would have pretty much been screwed too IF I had not already had baseline dyno runs on my car to show its performance before their work. It took those and extra runs to show the car was down 50-60rwhp after their reassembly and I had given it back to them to find what they messed up.

Thanks to info from PSRmark and my dyno runs that proved where the car was before they touched it finally got it fixed right. Without those dyno runs I'd be stuck with an under performing car now.

PSRMark is a great guy and I have enjoyed a few E-mail and PM communications with him.

What was it that the dealer did to have you down 50-60 RWHP?
And what did they do tom correct it?

sefa01
12-31-09, 01:51 PM
In case some of you are interested, here (http://www.lingenfelter.com/LPEforumfiles/showthread.php?t=130) is an illustration of Lingenfelters "fix" for the noisy SC issue.


This is excellent information--and it seems like a relatively cheap fix. I don't have any problems yet, but if I do I'd think about this.

I'd also love to hear what EWill3rd thinks about this Lingenfelter analysis and solution.

CoOlSlY
12-31-09, 01:58 PM
This is excellent information--and it seems like a relatively cheap fix. I don't have any problems yet, but if I do I'd think about this.

I'd also love to hear what EWill3rd thinks about this Lingenfelter analysis and solution.

Just be aware that it voids your supercharger warranty... If that would not be the case, I would do it in a heartbeat.

ewill3rd
12-31-09, 02:20 PM
That was the piece I installed in the one that was towed in to me.
I had not seen the stock piece.
I'm not much of an engineer, seems like putting the solid piece in there might cause some type of issues from the pressure but if they stand behind it....
As I said before there is no procedure listed in SI to remove that nose piece so I kind of had to make one up.

CIWS
12-31-09, 02:34 PM
What was it that the dealer did to have you down 50-60 RWHP?
And what did they do tom correct it?

In their process of engine removal they had to take the supercharger off of the car. Here's the post where Mark suggested what happened.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/1411429-post23.html

and it's chronicled in the follow on posts.
I noticed after picking the car up it just didn't feel as peppy. It was a couple of days later I had it on a dyno and the run showed it was down 45rwhp. I gave the car back to the dealership to "look over" and find why the car wasn't performing where it should (and fix the damage they did to my door rocker panels). They had it all day and returned it to me saying nothing was wrong with it. So I informed them I was taking it to a dyno to have it rerun and prove the car was not right, which that run it was down almost 60rwhp. I showed them the before and after dyno runs and gave them the pics and information Mark mentioned in that thread. Armed with that they discovered what they did and fixed the car.

But again without the dyno numbers to prove my case, their claim of "nothing wrong" would have been very difficult if not impossible to prove.

Mike 09 V
12-31-09, 02:39 PM
I can live with a little blower noise:p. Yes, I can hear it a little at idle but to me it's a non-issue. Eaton is a known and widely used unit. I'm sure GM put hundreds of thousands of miles on the cars testing them. I wonder if the "shaft wear" is any greater at 100,000 miles vs 1000 miles. Probably not:hide:. If the noise was unbearable to would install the fix(solid isolator or whatever its called) and call it quits.
Ross
I don't think shaft wear is really an issue. If you look at the pictures you will see the "shaft" is nothing more than a stub whose sole purpose is to center the isolator. The isolator "turns" on the "shaft" just a few degrees while the spring winds up, the purpose of which is to reduce some of the shock from engine speed changes to the supercharger gears. So the wear is probably not going to go much beyond the initial scoring of the spring rubbing on the metal surface. Once it gets past the initial wear period then it will likely stop. However, if the isolator itself wears, ie. the slots elongate and the noise increases then the isolator should be replaced. IMO. My actual mechanical knowledge of the V is taking off the gas cap but this is the way it looks to me.

poor-sha
12-31-09, 02:59 PM
Congrats Derek. I'm going to STFU and drive mine until it blows up. If it's under warranty then I'll get it fixed and if it's no longer under warranty I'll send it off to my favorite engine builder (or just put an LS9 in there),

bouser
01-04-10, 07:43 PM
Up Date: It has been a week and still no supercharger it is still on national back order.I called Cad. cust. service and was told that because of the economy that some parts may be hard to get. After venting my anger and dissatisfaction with that answer. I was told someone will call me within 24 hrs. The dealer did get a call from Detroit. :rant2:

IRONDOG
01-26-10, 10:09 PM
I took my 09 V to the dealer this afternoon as I was concerned that I could hear the rattle in the car. It has been on the road a month and has 1400 miles on it. The new T.S.B. # is PIP4523A. The old number was the same without the A. Long story short if you can hear the noise without the hood being opened and it does not go away after 1200rpm but goes away when the belt is removed
the Supercharger needs to be replaced. When the Dealer called G.M. they told him to give me a loaner as the Supercharger could come apart and destroy the engine. Note: this is for both the V and ZR1 vette. And only for 2009. The problem must be fixed for 2010. Hope this is a help Happy New Year.:banghead:

I've had my 2009 CTS-V for only 3 weeks. It has 1350 miles on it. It is at the dealer now and they have ordered a new supercharger for it. I hope the wait for the backorder to be filled isn't too long. For the experts out there what should I be looking out for in terms of the repair. Thanks.

Gary Wells
01-26-10, 10:46 PM
Why are they replacing the supercharger and the power steering pump?

IRONDOG
01-26-10, 10:57 PM
Why are they replacing the supercharger and the power steering pump?

Both of them happen to be bad. I don't think the issues are related at all.

Razorecko
01-26-10, 11:12 PM
so did all of you '09 guys get a recall for the door ?? I didnt get anything yet and am thinking somehow the dealer shafted me with a lack of notice/recalls

Gary Wells
01-27-10, 05:57 AM
Nope, not me either, but there again, I did not really expect one. Maybe they wait until you complain, and then they send you one. I am still waiting for the supercharger isolator recall and the wheel clicking recall also. Maybe they will send all 3 at the same time to cut down on their work load? Yea, right, sure.

ewill3rd
01-27-10, 07:22 AM
GM sends out letters for the recall.
Dealers do get lists of affected vehicles in their area but most (if not all) leave it up to the customer to check to see if it needs done.
If you suspect it applies to your car, as I do, call the dealer and have them check and then make an appointment.
It really falls on GM to be sure you get notified, not the dealer.

Wreckless
01-27-10, 08:12 AM
so did all of you '09 guys get a recall for the door ?? I didnt get anything yet and am thinking somehow the dealer shafted me with a lack of notice/recalls

I got the letter two weeks back. It looked like junk mail from the outside. You know, the ususal offers of credit, etc. Maybe you threw it out?