: This is RIDICULOUS Jesse



DrumStix
12-27-09, 07:04 PM
Wait4me is a great name for your business. I certainly am waiting for you. Have been for three damn weeks.
My AF ratio is 9:1 on my car right now with his MAF, CAI and Max tune. All else is stock. I called Jesse and he proceeded to ask me if I had read the directions. Dude, most of us on here do. Every time I call you about specifics on this vehicle, your parts or anything else I get curt answers and attitude. I would not be wasting yours or my time calling you if this thing was working. That vaguely defined POS hacked together 2 liner with a crooked picture that you call instructions is real helpful. /sarcasm.
I installed the CAI months ago and the car has been fat ever since. Here's the "fix" as Jesse put it: Rotate my MAF into the airflow 7 degrees (not 6, not 8) or some BS. Is that supposed to sound scientific or be engineering speak to assemble a 10 piece kluge of an air meter setup when you actually have not even bothered to take a look at the picture I sent you on how it's currently installed? It's always been setup just like his instructions say. He never responded. He has not responded to any of my 5 different emails or my PM on this forum over the past 3 weeks. All have been very nice and never accusatory. I'm done "waiting for them."

I used to create tunes with a guy that wrote the curves for PRO-M air meters so I know what's up. Your air meter is coming off the car and an NEP single piece design will be going on. You put China's hose clamp business on the NYSE with that thing you sell.

Also, I'm having an issue with my SCT Tuner and going to need to get the base firmware put back on it. I got Hannah on the phone and she referred me to SCT. Sure, no problem. Could you please send me the tune files that I bought with it that I've asked you for twice over email?
BTW, SCT was great. After 35 minutes with them on the phone and a VNC connection to my home PC, the got bored or something, disconnected, hung up the phone and never said anything about leaving. I thought we were tight. This was right in the middle of trying to update the firmware on my tuner. No bad words had been said and things seemed to be going just fine. Strange. Not sure what that was all about. Confidence in them has been low, even lower now.

What I expect is answers to my queries in a rather timely fashion. I'd simply like my original tunes that I paid for sent to me via email so when SCT gets on the ball, I'll have them. I'd also like you to take a look at my MAF orientation in the photo I sent and note if it is not to your liking, then respond. BTW, I rotated the thing like 5-15 degrees in each direction. No change, still fat as a pig.

I'm going with EFILIVE and getting my pulley elsewhere. I already sent Jesse the 9.5" back in the box because I'm not dealing with this fly-by-night crap on my $70K car with some hack that lives at the end of a dirt road.

If you can't do it dude, hire some folks or flail then fail.

chopmeat
12-27-09, 07:27 PM
Wow...

MReiland
12-27-09, 07:42 PM
I don't know Jesse or even have a V but it seems like since business is booming and people are complaining about long wait times that it might be time to take on some additional help, maybe answering phones and emails at the minimum.

dvandentop
12-27-09, 11:05 PM
if you are going to get tuning it is always best to find a local tuner who can work with you on a dyno to perfect things and make changes if possible.
sounds like in this case it is very true if you are having issues.

i say cut your losses and go find a local tuner

brent eb02
12-27-09, 11:53 PM
Drumstix.....you are not alone bro !!! the best thing to do is take that POS
w4m cold air intake off the car ASAP !

i will Never Ever deal with Jesse because you will always WAIT and WAIT and WAIT

my car ran just as Fat as yours and the only solution was to take it off..............now im stuck with a CAI i can not use.... a big waist of money !!!

and all Jesse says adjust the maf.....i feel your pain Bro !
i spent tons of money on the dyno with 2 different tuners to find out what a bad product jesse sold me!

ohhh and when i tried to get updates on the tune.........called at least 10 times.....nothing for weeks !!

ohhh and when i complained..............then i was told that the tune was FREE what i paid for was the handheld....the tune was thrown in on the deal....WTF?

i know a few others with simular problems with Jesse....

BUYER BEWARE !!!

Doct
12-28-09, 12:22 AM
Drumstix.... don't know if this matters but I have a question and maybe a idea (most likely you tried already though). When the car is running that fat is it throwing a code? Never seen Jesse's intake but I am assuming the maf housing from what you say is not in a fixed position meaning can be rotated separate from the intake tube itself? If this is the case again I am sure you tried but can you get the maf position as close to stock location as possible with this intake? One last thing has a battery disconnect been tried?

Again I am sure you tried what I said just thought I would throw that out man. Sorry to hear about your problems and hope it gets all worked out.

DrewDog
12-28-09, 11:40 AM
:pop2:

wfo
12-28-09, 12:47 PM
I'm with you DrumStix regarding timely service. Although not in this particular incidence with this vendor, but elsewhere.

We all know the life blood of a successful business runs on a continuous flow of satisfied customers linked together created from the dispensing of good/great or the best products and service.

Wait4me...we're all waiting to see how you handle this Bro. IMHO, every situation has two sides.

mpouls1
12-28-09, 02:13 PM
I know how busy he is. Was somewhat hard to get a hold of, but this was during Thanksgiving week. I will not go into details but we were able to get said inconvenience resolved and I was very happy with the outcome. Thank you Jess. Sorry to hear about the OP's problems. I have had similar problems with other vendors.

thebigjimsho
12-28-09, 03:00 PM
You're not going to get 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. But you've got to try. Eager to see what the response will be...

sharky1
12-28-09, 08:32 PM
does'nt seem to be a response forthcoming.....

thatcoder
12-28-09, 09:26 PM
wait4him. (pun intended)

Gary Wells
12-28-09, 09:35 PM
I am sure that Jesse will address this thread. He probably did not see it yet. I am sure that he would not let this go unaddressed.

thatcoder
12-28-09, 09:36 PM
He is a very busy guy. Working for free. It's the holiday season, please be very patient.

BacDoc
12-28-09, 09:43 PM
He is a very busy guy. Working for free. It's the holiday season, please be very patient.

+1

I stand behind Jes 100%. He did great work for me, cheap, and gave me free time over the phone trouble shooting. Bad holiday timing is my guess as well.

RapidRob
12-28-09, 10:16 PM
does'nt seem to be a response forthcoming.....

I think I saw a previous post from Jesse indicating he was going to be away until Jan. 14th, or something like that. So undoubtedly it'll be awhile if or when he chooses to respond.

DrumStix
12-28-09, 10:54 PM
Jesse responded to an email of mine three hours after I started this thread. If there is a connection, it's up to you all to speculate.

There was a school of thought that my MAF needed cleaning. It's been cleaned just to make sure and it was not the issue. The car has only 4,000 miles on it so a dirty MAF would be unlikely. That's not something we often need to service on any EFI car, otherwise having EFI would suck.

Then there was conjecture that he sent me the 9.5" ring tune making the car 16% rich over the max perf tune. I certainly hope that's not the case since my tune does say max performance and I didn't buy the 9.5" ring for a couple of months after getting the hand held. At the time we had not discussed any pulley tunes for me. Looking at how files are added to the tuner tonight via's SCT's tool, I can see how an incorrect tune could be placed on the hand held. Though the hand held does indicate max performance tune, you can copy any file into that place holder. I will find out.

This afternoon Jesse created a couple of tunes for me to try out and emailed them over. I've wiped the SCT Tuner out and applied their firmware update and copied over the tunes. The hand held still indicates "Incorrect Vehicle" when I attempt to tune. I'm going to put this thing under the rear tire and back over it in a minute. SCT is out until next Monday. If they can't get the hand held "unmarried" over the phone I'll insist on shipping it back or it will all end up in the trash with a tire tread on it.

I have the HPTuners stuff and enough points. When they come out with v2.24 in a couple of weeks with Gold support for the V, I'm there.
Thanks for listening.

DrumStix
12-28-09, 11:03 PM
Drumstix.... don't know if this matters but I have a question and maybe a idea (most likely you tried already though). When the car is running that fat is it throwing a code? Never seen Jesse's intake but I am assuming the maf housing from what you say is not in a fixed position meaning can be rotated separate from the intake tube itself? If this is the case again I am sure you tried but can you get the maf position as close to stock location as possible with this intake? One last thing has a battery disconnect been tried?

Again I am sure you tried what I said just thought I would throw that out man. Sorry to hear about your problems and hope it gets all worked out.

No codes at all. All BCM and ECM fuses have been pulled multiple times as well as the battery being disconnected. Also, the MAF is in the stock position and Jesse mentioned in an email today that the picture I sent him of it looks good. Thanks for jumping in your your thoughts and good ideas.
Once I get access to the PCM I can pull fuel all day long and dyno. Just waiting for that hand held to work so I can make an appointment.

DrumStix
12-28-09, 11:05 PM
You're not going to get 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. But you've got to try. Eager to see what the response will be...

Probably not but I'm not 100% of the people, just one guy. I'm pretty reasonable, knowledgeable and patient when it comes to this stuff. We should all work together to fix issues like this on the forum, no?

liqidvenom
12-29-09, 11:15 AM
it seems that something is readily understandable from reading this thread and others like this.


Jesse should start charging people for every thing he does after the initial purchase. other tuners/shops/companies would charge for re-tunes, sending files etc.

now in this instance your car should be running fine but after that he should charge you for following tunes or files. i think people would appreciate what goes into making those files once a price tag is added to it, and jesse could make some more coin to make all this worth his time.

you hear very few complaints of his hardware or the initial setup on most cars. but its the i needed a different tune from jesse or i needed other software for free from him and i have been waiting angrily for it.

also your car cost 70k ( not sure why on earth its so expensive for you) but im sure there are tons of other people with zr-1's, company accounts z06's etc that have cars that cost more and could also be waiting on updated tunes for free.

Doct
12-29-09, 01:56 PM
Drumstix,

In regards to your hand held I am trying to remember but there is a button where you can unlock it from the vin it's currently married to. If I remember correctly you were only allowed this 3 times on and xcal 2 handheld then after that you need to send it back to sct. I am not sure if this applies in your case but thought I would throw at ya to try and address your "incorrect vehicle" issue.

If you want to put to bed the "maf" issue I say throw the stock intake on and make a pull and see what your a/f is doing. I know everyone feels the factory unit doesn't flow enough with a pulley upgrade but for sole purposes of tuning and investigating if maf is a problem that might help and answer.

If the tune indeed was written for a pulley upgrade and that hasn't been done yet then I am sure the file does have added fuel thus your 9.5 a/f your reading. This also would conclude that the maf is ok no??

Keep us posted I am curious to see what is going on and I know helps me also as I am at this stage of getting the tuning finished on my car. I know it's frustrating but it will be worth it in the end when it is running good and you are enjoying the car yet again.

DrumStix
12-29-09, 02:55 PM
Drumstix,

In regards to your hand held I am trying to remember but there is a button where you can unlock it from the vin it's currently married to. If I remember correctly you were only allowed this 3 times on and xcal 2 handheld then after that you need to send it back to sct. I am not sure if this applies in your case but thought I would throw at ya to try and address your "incorrect vehicle" issue.

If you want to put to bed the "maf" issue I say throw the stock intake on and make a pull and see what your a/f is doing. I know everyone feels the factory unit doesn't flow enough with a pulley upgrade but for sole purposes of tuning and investigating if maf is a problem that might help and answer.

If the tune indeed was written for a pulley upgrade and that hasn't been done yet then I am sure the file does have added fuel thus your 9.5 a/f your reading. This also would conclude that the maf is ok no??

Keep us posted I am curious to see what is going on and I know helps me also as I am at this stage of getting the tuning finished on my car. I know it's frustrating but it will be worth it in the end when it is running good and you are enjoying the car yet again.

I'll keep you posted. I will be dynoing the stock tune and once my tuner gets "unmarried" (will look up the trick you mentioned) and then try the new max tune Jesse sent. If that does not do it I'm going to make a pull with the stock air box. I'll figure it out, I just need copes on my files that I paid for, not anything else that liquidvenom thinks I'm asking for and expecting to get for free.

LV, Please reread and comprehend my post and if you would like to compare it to others, that's fine. I'm not looking for anything for free. I've got cash in hand for troubleshooting and want this car sorted out. I asked for and received copies of the files I already purchased with my hand held, as indicated above, so I can reload them once I get the tuner put back to the base firmware with my VIN unmarried. FYI, I just ordered a spare PCM for Jesse to boot. Whether I paid 64K or 70K, is not the issue as I'm not asking for an updated tune for free. I have an issue with what I bought which created a nice paperweight. Get real man. Some people.

Doct
12-29-09, 03:31 PM
Lv, you make some good points. Jesse should charge for a fresh tune. I do think people appreciate it regardless if it's free or not only because if everyone could tune their own cars they would!

I have seen these kind of issues happen all the time when it comes to mail order tune business. Countless of times you will have people wanting their tunes only because like drumstix said your car is paper weight till you have it. I have no problem admitting I have done the same thing myself! People have stated if possible best thing is go to a local tuner/shop with a dyno to achieve that part of the mods. Unfortunately, I know there are a lot of people that don't have luxury.

DrumStix
12-29-09, 03:47 PM
When your PCM locks you out due to "Incorrect vehicle" while trying to flash the computer and the can no longer start the car it is essentially, a paperweight. I think it is absurd for people to request free tunes. Giving freely give of your talents is charitable indeed, but not to be expected. It could become and problem and I also believe asking for more than the three tunes that come with the tuner could and should be charged for. In this thread, that is not what is happening so things have become a little misdirected.

Jpjr
12-30-09, 06:01 AM
I read this post and have a few comments.

First, I think it is totally acceptable to post a complaint like this if you are getting no response from the vendor. That is probably the single biggest benefit of an online forum, holding people accountable. Now, if your post is out of line or in bad faith, then you yourself will be held accountable. Bottom line, the forum helps faciliate resolution one way or another.

Second, I don't think that in this day and age a vendor does not have an obligation to support his or her products post-sale. This is nothing towards Jess, and I can go on record as saying all of my dealings with WFM have been positive (purchased handheld that worked, PCM, etc.), but all of this business about paying for additional follow up is really irrelevant. The thread starter correctly noted that it has never been about the money, he's just trying to get his car running. I think that is fair. Vendors need to allocate sufficient resources to customer care and support and if they have to charge for it so be it as long as it is known up front.

Lastly, I'm at a loss with how an intake swap has any effect on A/F? A cold air intake allows more cold air to enter the motor, which is then mixed with fuel according to the tune. The more cold air that comes in, the more fuel the ECM will add to acheive the desired A/F. The only way I know of to affect the A/F with the MAF is to change the size of the MAF housing and thereby "trick" the MAF sensor into thinking less air is entering the motor than actually is. That would lean out the A/F but is not something most tuners would recommend.

So, since it appears as though the intake is installed correctly and is clean, unless it uses a different diamater MAF tube I think the A/F issues would be entirely due to the tune.

gnxs
12-30-09, 10:32 AM
Lastly, I'm at a loss with how an intake swap has any effect on A/F? A cold air intake allows more cold air to enter the motor, which is then mixed with fuel according to the tune. The more cold air that comes in, the more fuel the ECM will add to acheive the desired A/F. The only way I know of to affect the A/F with the MAF is to change the size of the MAF housing and thereby "trick" the MAF sensor into thinking less air is entering the motor than actually is. That would lean out the A/F but is not something most tuners would recommend.

So, since it appears as though the intake is installed correctly and is clean, unless it uses a different diamater MAF tube I think the A/F issues would be entirely due to the tune.
I'm not sure about the subtleties of the W4M Cold-Air and why it's affected by how the MAF is clocked (even though I have one on my car). I'm sure Jesse could talk into it more intelligently.

However, on my Cobra my tuner (RWTD) always made a point to note that I should not clock my MAF differently once the car is tuned. Apparently these MAF sensors are very sensitive to how the air approaches the element and clocking the MAF at 12 o'clock vs. say 3 o-clock had a noticeable affect on the A/F ratio. The degree of this likely affected somewhat by the design of the intake system before the MAF. Adding something like a fender mount kit, which contained a 90 degree bend before the MAF, would screw up the A/F even worse.

Like I said, perhaps tuner could chime in as to the dynamics of airflow over the MAF element based on their design, all I know is I've heard many tuners mention MAF clocking (orientation) when discussing tuning and A/F.

Jpjr
12-30-09, 12:15 PM
I'm not sure about the subtleties of the W4M Cold-Air and why it's affected by how the MAF is clocked (even though I have one on my car). I'm sure Jesse could talk into it more intelligently.

However, on my Cobra my tuner (RWTD) always made a point to note that I should not clock my MAF differently once the car is tuned. Apparently these MAF sensors are very sensitive to how the air approaches the element and clocking the MAF at 12 o'clock vs. say 3 o-clock had a noticeable affect on the A/F ratio. The degree of this likely affected somewhat by the design of the intake system before the MAF. Adding something like a fender mount kit, which contained a 90 degree bend before the MAF, would screw up the A/F even worse.

Like I said, perhaps tuner could chime in as to the dynamics of airflow over the MAF element based on their design, all I know is I've heard many tuners mention MAF clocking (orientation) when discussing tuning and A/F.


James at RWTD? :cool:

That goes back to a questionable design or poor installation. The MAF, if properly installed and calibrated as intended by GM to work with their ECM, should not affect A/F at all in my opinion. It is a sensor to read air and provide information to the computer and not a tuning mechanism.

musclesbmf
12-30-09, 05:17 PM
Personally, I believe the issue with the aftermarket cold air kits is the bend in the tube before the MAF sensor. This was an issue with the 03 and 04 Cobras that tried to put the air filter in the wheel well and it introduced an extra bend before the MAF. The bend changes the air turbulence and the air sampling going through the sensor. Just my personal thoughts. I took off the cold air piece and kept the air box mod and I think my car runs better that way. I;m certainly not bashing the vendor for it though. If I choose to get a local dyno tune, then I will take the piece and see if they can tune it in for me.

Just my $.02,
Mark

Mikels
12-30-09, 05:30 PM
James at RWTD? :cool:

That goes back to a questionable design or poor installation. The MAF, if properly installed and calibrated as intended by GM to work with their ECM, should not affect A/F at all in my opinion. It is a sensor to read air and provide information to the computer and not a tuning mechanism.

MAF installation has everything to do with A/F ratios.

Look at the MAF sensor and you can see that the actual 'sensor' portion is sampling a very small area of the total airflow entering the engine. MAF calibration is based on this matching the factory induction system airflow characteristics.

Factory induction system is designed to be robust to any variation in airflow characteristics either before or after MAF sensor to ensure accuracy. To verify this, multiple assemblies are run on a flow bench to verify repeatability (multiple parts assembled multiple times with multiple combinations). This data is used to create the MAF calibration in the ECM and MUST MATCH what actual airflow is.

I'm doubt very much that any aftermarket company has a flow bench capable of creating airflow levels required to even develop this flow curve, as this is complete engine airflow, not just a single cylinder (like most flow benches are made for).

Aftermarket MAF housings, aircleaners, etc. can and will alter this MAF frequency output vs. airflow. Poorly designed systems are even worse as they are sensitive to alterations in alignment to 'system'. Having to 'clock' a MAF housing is a sure sign of poorly designed and executed alternate to factory system.

GM systems are MASS AIR systems. They also calculate airflow based on speed density and compare these values to assure most accurate and reliable operation. This is why having a MAF failure does not disable the vehicle, it simple resorts to speed density to continue operation. Now this assumes a stock vehicle as speed density calibrations are based on stock engine characteristics.

Jpjr
12-30-09, 06:25 PM
[QUOTE=Mikels;2105142]MAF installation has everything to do with A/F ratios.

QUOTE]

???

I just said that, an improperly installed MAF or anything that causes the MAF sensor to not function properly could screw up the readings and affect A/F.

I also said that, a properly installed and functioning intake/MAF will not affect A/F.

And as I also eluded to a few times, the reason you buy a cold air kit is to push more cold air to the engine, and not to affect A/F. If the kit is affecting A/F then it is a poor design, improperly installed, or potentially (but not likely) purposeful to trick the ECM.

gnxs
12-30-09, 06:38 PM
James at RWTD? :cool:

That goes back to a questionable design or poor installation. The MAF, if properly installed and calibrated as intended by GM to work with their ECM, should not affect A/F at all in my opinion. It is a sensor to read air and provide information to the computer and not a tuning mechanism.
Yes, James.

GM's unit, as designed in a factory application, is not adjustable or changeable in regards to it's orientation. Aftermarket cold-air kits do tend to allow the MAF to be mounted at various angles and clockings and in portions of the airstream that may be flowing more or less air than the average thru the entire tube. That's where it could become a variable.....IMO.

Doct
12-30-09, 08:20 PM
Personally, I believe the issue with the aftermarket cold air kits is the bend in the tube before the MAF sensor. This was an issue with the 03 and 04 Cobras that tried to put the air filter in the wheel well and it introduced an extra bend before the MAF. The bend changes the air turbulence and the air sampling going through the sensor. Just my personal thoughts. I took off the cold air piece and kept the air box mod and I think my car runs better that way. I;m certainly not bashing the vendor for it though. If I choose to get a local dyno tune, then I will take the piece and see if they can tune it in for me.

Just my $.02,
Mark

I had this issue with my cobra with a jlt kit also. Although you are 100% the bends in the intake tube and placement of airfilter didn't affect me till trying really high boost levels 20+.

Mikels
12-30-09, 09:40 PM
[QUOTE=Mikels;2105142]MAF installation has everything to do with A/F ratios.

QUOTE]

???

I just said that, an improperly installed MAF or anything that causes the MAF sensor to not function properly could screw up the readings and affect A/F.

I also said that, a properly installed and functioning intake/MAF will not affect A/F.

And as I also eluded to a few times, the reason you buy a cold air kit is to push more cold air to the engine, and not to affect A/F. If the kit is affecting A/F then it is a poor design, improperly installed, or potentially (but not likely) purposeful to trick the ECM.



My apologies then - I either misread or misinterpreted what you were saying.

My point (and yours as well) is that an aftermarket system that is designed in a manner that allows this sort of variation in MAF readings is inherently flawed and likely to cause issues (even if no codes set).

Jpjr
12-30-09, 09:48 PM
[quote=Jpjr;2105171]



My apologies then - I either misread or misinterpreted what you were saying.

My point (and yours as well) is that an aftermarket system that is designed in a manner that allows this sort of variation in MAF readings is inherently flawed and likely to cause issues (even if no codes set).

couldn't agree more.

DrumStix
01-13-10, 08:56 PM
So SCT called and said they want $75 to "unmarry" their handheld from the old serial number on my PCM since the dealer had to replace said PCM. I guess they changed their policy from unmarrying the PCM twice if you are the original purchaser. Thanks Jesse for calling them on my behalf without me knowing until they told me. That really helped and we certainly got everything fixed. These things never go bad. Sure they don't.

So, I guess if you folks out there are tuning with the SCT handheld, it fails and you have to have your PCM replaced by the dealer, you will be in for a 5 week wait and need to pay to have them fix what broke your car. Like THAT's going back on mine anyway.

EFILIVE!!

Rudy@SCT
01-14-10, 12:32 PM
I apologize that you were misinformed about what it would take to get your device unlocked and returned to you. If your PCM has been replaced by the dealer we simply request you to send in a copy of the dealer's paperwork with your VIN on it for the replaced PCM and we will unlock you device free of charge. Again I apologize for the incorrect information and the issue that you have encountered and will be happy to work on getting this resolved for you. If you can please send me your RMA number I will make sure it gets processed as quickly as possible after it is received here.