: Test drove CTSV, couple of Q's:



mrmojorisin
12-24-09, 03:56 PM
I'm coming from BMW M3's. 2 coupes and currently an 08 sedan, manaul. My current M3 is an incredible overall car, however I now have 2 kids under 2 so can really use the extra space. I cannot even take my 2 month old daughter in my car with my 2 year old, both seats do not fit :(

Also, the amount of low end torque in the M3 can be a bother in traffic.

The engine is the heart of the M3. Its sophisticated and makes phenominal sounds.

I would love to buy an American car but the last V was just too far under the bar. Pretty poor effort on the part of GM.

So I'm considering a used M5 and wanted to try out the V.

First a couple of questions:

1. BMW's come with all included maintenance for the first 4/50k. What is the cost of the V for 4/50k?

2. The engine was really quiet compared to the M3. Does it get louder with time? I blipped the throttle a few times, but very quiet. I was suprised by this.

Impressions:

Exterior: looks good, but not great (very edgy, not sure how good it will age). A little too much bling in black, I would go for silver. Very classy though. I see 20 CTS per day and they all look great.

Interior: this is the weakpoint of the car IMO. Its much better than the last one however I would prefer to spend an extra $2k or so for better materials. Good but not great.

Power: outstanding, you can really feel the torque vs. the M3. Makes for more comfortable daily driving, as with the M3 you dont get any real power until 4k. I feel like a boy racer sometimes although the car sounds incredible.

Overall: I wish the fit / finish was better and the engine / exhaust were a little more agressive. I think I need to spend a little more time in the car.

Just wanted to share my thouhgts. The V is a very special car, I hope you dont take this as negative but I'm very picky :) I can pick apart my M3 as well, however I LOVE the car.

TIA.

neuronbob
12-24-09, 04:02 PM
So far as I know, Vs don't come with free maintenance. For me, so far, two oil changes in 8200 miles....
The exhaust sound is a bit muted stock but that is easily fixed with one of the several exhaust options (I have the Corsa Touring axleback exhaust).

The M3 is a great car, too bad you have to give it up...but at least there are good family-compatible sport sedans like the V and M5 available.

thebigjimsho
12-24-09, 04:06 PM
As an '04 and '09 owner, I will say that your opinion on the earlier V is pretty poor. A lot like a BMW fanboy who thinks his p00p don't stink(and I've been a BMW fan since I could say car since my parents still have their 2002. I guess BMW's first effort in the US would be poor since it can't compare to the M3).

The first CTS-V was a GREAT first effort by GM. Never making a high-performance 4 door sedan of those capabilities before, they develop one that had the athletic moves to trump the M3 AND M5. Say what you will about the interior and issues like the rear diff, it was still a competent and dependable car that was an undeniable value at $50G.

The new V's fit and finish is a great step up and is better than the Mercedes. Maybe it's not at BMW level yet, but it's close. And it looks better. Much better.

CASEY122457
12-24-09, 04:10 PM
I have an 2006 M5 with 7100 miles I am trying to sell. Worst car I have tried to sell in my life. They do not hold value at all. I can tell you for a fact that the paint, fit, gaps etc. is much better on my V than the BMW. Merry Christmas.

Nutz
12-24-09, 05:05 PM
Mrmojorisin, your Mojo aint risin until you buy the new Cts-V. Since you've been around this fine place since 06, I would suggest a little time reading up in here. Alot of happy customers, so far as I can tell that have not really been soaking up warranty work. Do eet.

wfo
12-24-09, 05:15 PM
Buy the BMW, I can sense you might never be happy with this sweetest V beasts. Which by the way will be far too powerful for you.

With all due respect. It's obvious you are pretty clueless. So much so that if you've looked at the dollar to dollar performance of this car, the details/fit and finish in this generation of V are better than they've ever been. The GM dealerships have all been put on notice that service is a crucial part of retaining business. The products seem to be following the trend. I'm staying Americana.

It's true, you do need to buy a "used" BMW, as they are over priced at full sticker and this is specifically due to the fact that you are paying for all that service upfront. No service is "included" that hasn't been paid for my friend.

GM raised the bar on this car and set the record straight, very straight in there spanking of many/most higher priced sport sedans.

Now go to You tube and watch your M5 get waxed...and then come back when you're ready to pick any one of th great V colors and enjoy the most ferocious sport sedan on the planet, bar none.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

cbloveday
12-24-09, 05:21 PM
I sold my 2007 M6 black sapphire metallic after 15,000 miles and bought the V.
I did the Dinan Stage 2 package 15m and vorsteiner CF front Lip $1,500, BMC filters with RPI scoops $300, Eisenmann race $3,000 etc etc..on my BMW.
I had issues with the door sills and replaced them twice. I had the transmission gremlin once or twice.
I too loved the BMW V-10 wail with my eisenmann race exhaust.

If you are into modding, the V is way cheaper than BMW. I do not find a diff in fit n finish.
So far with the V, I have done the lingenfelter SC pullley upgrade, K&N filters and Corsa sport exhaust. I have spent under $5,000 and have 536 rwhp and 524 rwtq.

Bottom line is I love the V and got their smart care coverage (I would negotiate this into the purchase).
This is now what my V sounds like and I am not sorry that I sold the M6.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/th_corsacoldstart.jpg (http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/?action=view&current=corsacoldstart.flv)

cbloveday
12-24-09, 05:25 PM
Buy the BMW, I can sense you might never be happy with this sweetest V beasts. Which by the way will be far too powerful for you.

With all due respect. It's obvious you are pretty clueless. So much so that if you've looked at the dollar to dollar performance of this car, the details/fit and finish in this generation of V are better than they've ever been. The GM dealerships have all been put on notice that service is a crucial part of retaining business. The products seem to be following the trend. I'm staying Americana.

It's true, you do need to buy a "used" BMW, as they are over priced at full sticker and this is specifically due to the fact that you are paying for all that service upfront. No service is "included" that hasn't been paid for my friend.

GM raised the bar on this car and set the record straight, very straight in there spanking of many/most higher priced sport sedans.

Now go to You tube and watch your M5 get waxed...and then come back when you're ready to pick any one of th great V colors and enjoy the most ferocious sport sedan on the planet, bar none.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Wow, thats what i would call a verbal spanking as opposed to a race spanking LOL.

Karch
12-24-09, 06:02 PM
My personal thoughts, not owning a V (yet), but I do know GM cars tend to be very easy to work on, and maintenance is not very expensive.
It's not like a $1000 maintenance bill at all, if you go by most of what the manufacturer suggests.

Dealers (most) look to add service and maintenance all the time. I know this because, if you think of things from their perspective, how else do they keep their service doors open?

It used to be you needed points, condenser, and plugs every 12 months/12K miles. Then came electronic ignition, so plugs lasted longer. Then came EFI, so there's even less maintenance.

So, the EPA makes the car makers warranty all their emissions to 70K, not to mention really curb emissions, and C.A.F.E. This means we are driving (all new cars) much more efficient machines, so there is less blow-by, less contaminants, and all kinds of diagnostics available.

Figure about $100/oil change, (I often do it at 80% of GM's interval), a few hundred for brakes after 2-3 years, etc. No timing belt, so you're good for quite a while there.

It really is relatively low maintenance, compared to more exotics. In fact, the engine is a very well thought out, yet simple, design. Just don't overrev it, as connecting rod bolts will stretch when overrevved, which cause bearing problems. Besides, lots of torque down low, so you don't need to wind it out like the M5.

commander112
12-24-09, 07:21 PM
Alright Mr Mojo, I will take a stab at this and will try to be totally objective. I once owned a BMW 530i (The small v8 one from the mid 90's with a 5 speed manual) and while it was quite a while ago that I owned that car I will say that IMO that was about the high point for BMW quality control. Since then I personally believe that their materials and finish have gone down hill a bit particularily on the 3 series cars. I can understand you like your 3 series but don't drink too much of the Kool Aid. I also would never own a BMW outside of the warranty period. After having service done on my old 530 I would look at what the dealer was billing the parent and it was crazy expensive. As was said above, BMW is simply including the service charges in the purchase price.
Now on to the CTS-V, I will refrain from taking offense to your comments about the previous car. I had one and GM and Caddy treated me well enough for me to have purchased a STS4, XLR and the new CTS-V since that time. In the first three years of ownership on any of the cars only regular oil changes were required and the service intervals for tuneups or any more major items are way down the road. Today's cars are made so things that used to be required at 30K, 60K or earlier are now pushed back to 100K. Therefore, maintenance is really not a major expense at all on this car. I would not expect to have to do brakes for at least 30K.
Now on to materials and fit and finish, The fit on the V is at least as good as the current 5 series. The finish could be a bit better with less orange peel in the paint but it is more than acceptable. The interior materials are fine. The switch gear is high quality and IMO better than the BMW as is the dash material. The only material that lacks in quality is the bright black plastic and that is no worse than the BMW and is exactly the same material Infinity uses in their cars.
To sum up, the Caddy is an excellent value built with quality parts to take on the best in the world. It may not have the street credibility yet but give it time. It is built to be inexpensive to maintain and to modify and will have more room than the 3 series you are looking to replace. I don't know where you live but, here in Michigan, I have had my Caddy dealers toss me the keys to a car and tell me to take it home for the night. Ask the dealer for more seat time in a car and then add it all up. In the end the best car will talk to you.

4gear70
12-24-09, 07:50 PM
Just an FYI, GM Canada includes routine scheduled oil and filter change maintenance (with Mobil 1 synthetic) for Cadillac. In fact, when I had my '05 V, it even included free brake pad changes but I believe this has been dropped on vehicles produced after '06.
Either way, the routine maintenance required on these vehicles is minimal.

wfo
12-24-09, 09:43 PM
Why do we need to go to this length?

Drive the car, you'll buy the car...enuff said.

Oh...Merry Christmas to you all and to all, a good night.

demorgan59
12-24-09, 11:11 PM
I have an 2006 M5 with 7100 miles I am trying to sell. Worst car I have tried to sell in my life. They do not hold value at all. I can tell you for a fact that the paint, fit, gaps etc. is much better on my V than the BMW. Merry Christmas.

Your M5 looked awesome to me. I'm surprised you haven't sold it yet.

nradcad
12-25-09, 10:57 AM
I traded in my Competition Package M3 on the V and haven't looked back. Sure there are a few things that I don't like about the car, but there were a few things I didn't like about the M3 too.

I track a fair bit, and it's much quicker on the track than my M3, but I had the E46 model not the E92, but I have heard it is faster than the E92 as well. I haven't had the pleasure to school any e92 drivers yet, but I know it will.

There is plenty you'll love about the car (technology, comfort, performance), but I'm suspecting there are a few things you won't like and here is what they might be: First, The car doesn't 'feel' fast. You feel somewhat removed from the power. You know it's fast cause other than a Z06, there's very little out there that will outrun it. Second, along with the car not 'feeling' fast, the car is way too quiet inside the cabin. The engine note is muted, muffled, and generally non-existent for cues while your driving. I could tell so much about my M3 based on the engine note. You will lose that.

But in all honesty, it is a superior car that GM got right. Overall, you will not be disappointed. If you need the convenience of a 4 door, luxury sedan while sacrificing little in performance, this is your car.

thebigjimsho
12-25-09, 11:52 AM
I traded in my Competition Package M3 on the V and haven't looked back. Sure there are a few things that I don't like about the car, but there were a few things I didn't like about the M3 too.

I track a fair bit, and it's much quicker on the track than my M3, but I had the E46 model not the E92, but I have heard it is faster than the E92 as well. I haven't had the pleasure to school any e92 drivers yet, but I know it will.

There is plenty you'll love about the car (technology, comfort, performance), but I'm suspecting there are a few things you won't like and here is what they might be: First, The car doesn't 'feel' fast. You feel somewhat removed from the power. You know it's fast cause other than a Z06, there's very little out there that will outrun it. Second, along with the car not 'feeling' fast, the car is way too quiet inside the cabin. The engine note is muted, muffled, and generally non-existent for cues while your driving. I could tell so much about my M3 based on the engine note. You will lose that.

But in all honesty, it is a superior car that GM got right. Overall, you will not be disappointed. If you need the convenience of a 4 door, luxury sedan while sacrificing little in performance, this is your car.
I think both of your issues(which are mine as well) are tied together. Get that exhaust note up and it'll tie into your senses and will make the car feel faster.

sefa01
12-25-09, 12:51 PM
As an '04 and '09 owner, I will say that your opinion on the earlier V is pretty poor. A lot like a BMW fanboy who thinks his p00p don't stink(and I've been a BMW fan since I could say car since my parents still have their 2002. I guess BMW's first effort in the US would be poor since it can't compare to the M3).

The first CTS-V was a GREAT first effort by GM. Never making a high-performance 4 door sedan of those capabilities before, they develop one that had the athletic moves to trump the M3 AND M5. Say what you will about the interior and issues like the rear diff, it was still a competent and dependable car that was an undeniable value at $50G.

The new V's fit and finish is a great step up and is better than the Mercedes. Maybe it's not at BMW level yet, but it's close. And it looks better. Much better.

Jim and I both had '04s and now '09s. He's hit the nail on the head, although still have warm feeling forBMWs. I had a 530, an 850 and an M Roadster).

sefa01
12-25-09, 12:57 PM
My personal thoughts, not owning a V (yet), but I do know GM cars tend to be very easy to work on, and maintenance is not very expensive.


Figure about $100/oil change, (I often do it at 80% of GM's interval), a few hundred for brakes after 2-3 years, etc. No timing belt, so you're good for quite a while there.

It really is relatively low maintenance, compared to more exotics.

Routine maintenance can be done at any competent shop, rather than the dealer. You can get Mobil 1 and filter at Wal-Mart for about $30. My local guys then charges me $20 for the labor. For warrenty purposes, GM doesn't care as long as you keep the records.

JBsZ06
12-25-09, 03:19 PM
I'd suggest going to test drive both. The CTS V will tear up an M5. I test drove one and I have to say I have been truly tempted to buy one. Really an amazing vehicle..

Its the total package and the pricing on the CTS V is very appealing as well.

If I didn't already own an AWD CTS with 300hp and the sport suspension and a 2008 C6 Z51 vette..

I'd for sure own the CTS V..and I may in fact get the CTS V coupe

Great choices yet I'd go with the CTS V over the mighty fine M5

thebigjimsho
12-25-09, 05:02 PM
Jim and I both had '04s and now '09s. He's hit the nail on the head, although still have warm feeling forBMWs. I had a 530, an 850 and an M Roadster).
Oh, I'm still a big BMW fan. Just so happens when I'm in the market for the best 4 door performance sedan, the V has been it...

Seattle CTS-V
12-25-09, 08:22 PM
I just test drove an '09 M3 convertible and walked away wondering how the hell they could charge almost $80k for a car with such a crappy interior. It isn't crappy in the sense that the fit and finish is poor but the materials and design just look like they're from a 10-yr old design.

cbloveday
12-25-09, 08:34 PM
I personally would buy a new V vs a used M5. 1.) I do not like buying a car that was previously owned. I had my fill of that. 2.) It is clear it will out run and out handle the M5.
3.) If interior is an issue with you, use the extra money saved and change the material to say Carbon Fibre overlay or hydro dipped.
4.) Get the recaros

mrmojorisin
12-26-09, 10:17 AM
I traded in my Competition Package M3 on the V and haven't looked back. Sure there are a few things that I don't like about the car, but there were a few things I didn't like about the M3 too.

There is plenty you'll love about the car (technology, comfort, performance), but I'm suspecting there are a few things you won't like and here is what they might be: First, The car doesn't 'feel' fast. You feel somewhat removed from the power. You know it's fast cause other than a Z06, there's very little out there that will outrun it. Second, along with the car not 'feeling' fast, the car is way too quiet inside the cabin. The engine note is muted, muffled, and generally non-existent for cues while your driving. I could tell so much about my M3 based on the engine note. You will lose that.

But in all honesty, it is a superior car that GM got right. Overall, you will not be disappointed. If you need the convenience of a 4 door, luxury sedan while sacrificing little in performance, this is your car.

Helpful post. I had an 05 ZCP as well. I agree on the muted engine sound, having driven in Z06 around the track, I was expecting the V engine to sound mean. It wasnt there, especially vs. the M3. The M3 engine/intake is just awesome.

However you get a ton of noise in the M3, which sounds great, but you're not really going anywhere until over 4k rpm. Maybe the Caddy is a bit more laid back than I"m used to.

I think I really need more seat time, I only took about a 10 min test drive.

mrmojorisin
12-26-09, 10:24 AM
Alright Mr Mojo, I will take a stab at this and will try to be totally objective. I once owned a BMW 530i (The small v8 one from the mid 90's with a 5 speed manual) and while it was quite a while ago that I owned that car I will say that IMO that was about the high point for BMW quality control. Since then I personally believe that their materials and finish have gone down hill a bit particularily on the 3 series cars. I can understand you like your 3 series but don't drink too much of the Kool Aid. I also would never own a BMW outside of the warranty period. After having service done on my old 530 I would look at what the dealer was billing the parent and it was crazy expensive. As was said above, BMW is simply including the service charges in the purchase price.
Now on to the CTS-V, I will refrain from taking offense to your comments about the previous car. I had one and GM and Caddy treated me well enough for me to have purchased a STS4, XLR and the new CTS-V since that time. In the first three years of ownership on any of the cars only regular oil changes were required and the service intervals for tuneups or any more major items are way down the road. Today's cars are made so things that used to be required at 30K, 60K or earlier are now pushed back to 100K. Therefore, maintenance is really not a major expense at all on this car. I would not expect to have to do brakes for at least 30K.
Now on to materials and fit and finish, The fit on the V is at least as good as the current 5 series. The finish could be a bit better with less orange peel in the paint but it is more than acceptable. The interior materials are fine. The switch gear is high quality and IMO better than the BMW as is the dash material. The only material that lacks in quality is the bright black plastic and that is no worse than the BMW and is exactly the same material Infinity uses in their cars.
To sum up, the Caddy is an excellent value built with quality parts to take on the best in the world. It may not have the street credibility yet but give it time. It is built to be inexpensive to maintain and to modify and will have more room than the 3 series you are looking to replace. I don't know where you live but, here in Michigan, I have had my Caddy dealers toss me the keys to a car and tell me to take it home for the night. Ask the dealer for more seat time in a car and then add it all up. In the end the best car will talk to you.

Agree on the materials. The E46 had better materials than the current E90, I was dissapointed with many items in the E90. However the E90 is far more solid and better built.

Agree, I need more seat time. Which dealer do you recommend in MI?

So when you say inexpensive to maintain - what am I looking at for brakes and/or clutch? Please understand why this is a big deal - coming from bmw M cars - an oil change is $250, $500 for service checks, $1500 for brakes, and $2000 for a clutch. I do track my cars frequently, so that's why maint. costs are a factor :)

commander112
12-26-09, 12:21 PM
Agree, I need more seat time. Which dealer do you recommend in MI?

So when you say inexpensive to maintain - what am I looking at for brakes and/or clutch? Please understand why this is a big deal - coming from bmw M cars - an oil change is $250, $500 for service checks, $1500 for brakes, and $2000 for a clutch. I do track my cars frequently, so that's why maint. costs are a factor :)

The dealer is an easy question to answer, call Scott Pratt at Superior Caddy in Brighton. He claims to be that largest V dealer in the country and has the best selection around. My first V and XLR came from Lafontaine. Good dealer but not a V store. Call Scott.

As for costs, I'm just guessing here but brake pads are perhaps $3-400, rotors are maybe $200 each. I would take a stab at a clutch costing maybe $1500. Oil changes with full synthetic are about $55 and I would say most service checks even if you have them done at the dealer are $250-350. Not anywhere near what the BMW store charges.

thebigjimsho
12-26-09, 12:52 PM
Agree on the materials. The E46 had better materials than the current E90, I was dissapointed with many items in the E90. However the E90 is far more solid and better built.

Agree, I need more seat time. Which dealer do you recommend in MI?

So when you say inexpensive to maintain - what am I looking at for brakes and/or clutch? Please understand why this is a big deal - coming from bmw M cars - an oil change is $250, $500 for service checks, $1500 for brakes, and $2000 for a clutch. I do track my cars frequently, so that's why maint. costs are a factor :)
The rotors are 2 piece from the factory, I would imagine to replace the rings would not be super expensive. Pads are not atypical and are easy to replace. Nothing on this car should be any extraordinary bill...

nradcad
12-26-09, 10:31 PM
Really, the V rotors are 2 piece?

concorso
12-26-09, 11:06 PM
Alright Mr Mojo, I will take a stab at this and will try to be totally objective. I once owned a BMW 530i (The small v8 one from the mid 90's with a 5 speed manual) and while it was quite a while ago that I owned that car I will say that IMO that was about the high point for BMW quality control. Since then I personally believe that their materials and finish have gone down hill a bit particularily on the 3 series cars. I can understand you like your 3 series but don't drink too much of the Kool Aid. I also would never own a BMW outside of the warranty period. After having service done on my old 530 I would look at what the dealer was billing the parent and it was crazy expensive. As was said above, BMW is simply including the service charges in the purchase price.
Now on to the CTS-V, I will refrain from taking offense to your comments about the previous car. I had one and GM and Caddy treated me well enough for me to have purchased a STS4, XLR and the new CTS-V since that time. In the first three years of ownership on any of the cars only regular oil changes were required and the service intervals for tuneups or any more major items are way down the road. Today's cars are made so things that used to be required at 30K, 60K or earlier are now pushed back to 100K. Therefore, maintenance is really not a major expense at all on this car. I would not expect to have to do brakes for at least 30K.
Now on to materials and fit and finish, The fit on the V is at least as good as the current 5 series. The finish could be a bit better with less orange peel in the paint but it is more than acceptable. The interior materials are fine. The switch gear is high quality and IMO better than the BMW as is the dash material. The only material that lacks in quality is the bright black plastic and that is no worse than the BMW and is exactly the same material Infinity uses in their cars.
To sum up, the Caddy is an excellent value built with quality parts to take on the best in the world. It may not have the street credibility yet but give it time. It is built to be inexpensive to maintain and to modify and will have more room than the 3 series you are looking to replace. I don't know where you live but, here in Michigan, I have had my Caddy dealers toss me the keys to a car and tell me to take it home for the night. Ask the dealer for more seat time in a car and then add it all up. In the end the best car will talk to you.Solid post. There are still areas the new CTS-V could improve on, but the car is now within the class standards, which is all it needs. It might not be the best in all areas, but its arguably the best overall package. Its a little to flash for my liking. But the M5 feels very 'cold'. The previous E63 felt cheap and didnt offer a manual (apparently theyve addresssed this with the 2011 model, the cheapness) and the RS6 isnt offered in rwd or in the US. I havent been able to get any seat time in an XFR, so I cant comment on that one.

GMX322V S/C
12-26-09, 11:09 PM
Really, the V rotors are 2 piece?

Technically the stock front rotors are "co-cast"--cast iron disc melded with an aluminum hat into a single unit. The optional "track" brakes are truly 2-piece.

thebigjimsho
12-26-09, 11:36 PM
Technically the stock front rotors are "co-cast"--cast iron disc melded with an aluminum hat into a single unit. The optional "track" brakes are truly 2-piece.
Just shows you how much I know...:thepan:

GMX322V S/C
12-27-09, 12:18 AM
Well, um, they start off as 2 pieces :D

Jon
12-27-09, 03:12 PM
I don't understand how anyone can say the 3-series has a nicer interior. The BMW's dash is just so ugly and bland. It's like one huge horizontal bar.

JBsZ06
12-27-09, 08:48 PM
I spotted a new 5 series last night and its smokin hot looking. Really a smooth look.. Still for the coin BMW is charging for the M5 you gotta really want a bimmer..

The CTS V will smoke the present M5 and the 510 hp XFR's. I drove the Jag and its a great vehicle. I'm not quite sure but if I remember..they have a 60 grand jaguar XF that puts out 490 hp thats a pretty dam good deal..

That said...the CTS V blows away either of the Jags...and the basic cost of maintaince..is follow the computer and change the oil every 8 k or so miles... for a 90 bucks..

Its an amazing car so have some fun with it.

c4ss
12-27-09, 10:43 PM
I don't understand how anyone can say the 3-series has a nicer interior. The BMW's dash is just so ugly and bland. It's like one huge horizontal bar.


I totally agree. I will NEVER understand the obsession with BMW interiors. They haven't changed the look in, what, 10 years? :hmm: They do not look all that great to me and never have. I just don't get it.

jvp
12-27-09, 10:50 PM
Technically the stock front rotors are "co-cast"--cast iron disc melded with an aluminum hat into a single unit. The optional "track" brakes are truly 2-piece.

And they're completely unobtanium as of this point. They don't exist. :-)

jas

dvandentop
12-28-09, 12:09 AM
And they're completely unobtanium as of this point. They don't exist. :-)

jas


yep and a damn shame too. does anyone even have a pic of them in existence? or were we just led along the whole time saying they were coming :alchi:

nradcad
12-28-09, 12:23 AM
A track package would have been ideal for 1/2 this da*n forum.

ecorpuz12
12-28-09, 12:55 AM
the BMW interiors are indeed rather spartan looking...but some people like that plain, uncluttered look. i don't terribly mind it, but after driving my V and then getting into my wife's E90, i much rather prefer gazing at the more upscale looking V. i think the plastics and other interior bits are still built more solidly in the BMW though...not as much give when you push the dash panels inward. hopefully the rattle fairies stay away from the V. i have a finely tuned ear to hearing such things and it drives me absolutely batty...the sunroof cover is already starting to make noise when driving over bumps and the like. GO AWAY ye evil squeaks/creaks/rattles!!!!

Jon
12-28-09, 03:07 AM
Forgot to mention. What's with BMW cup holders? Hey, let's make them pop outta the dash. One above the passenger's left leg, one above the right. I'd LOVE to be the passenger with 2 hot coffee cups above my legs. Good move there BMW.

jvp
12-28-09, 08:30 AM
yep and a damn shame too. does anyone even have a pic of them in existence?

For whatever reason, Brembo and GM never released them. The original plan was for them to be released with the car, but it just didn't happen. They're still unobtanium for the time being.

jas

OldRoadDawg
12-28-09, 10:32 AM
Technically the stock front rotors are "co-cast"--cast iron disc melded with an aluminum hat into a single unit. The optional "track" brakes are truly 2-piece.


does anyone even have a pic of them in existence? or were we just led along the whole time saying they were coming :alchi:
Mm-m-m....... might look like this

PrimaryW
12-28-09, 10:40 AM
I looked at the M5 and M6. I looked at the GT-R. I looked at the Porsche Panamera. I chose the V. And, frankly, I am an Acura guy. I'm used to the HIGHEST customer satisfaction. So far, I ADORE my V. (2010 model, Silver, all bells and whistles.)

thebigjimsho
12-28-09, 04:07 PM
For whatever reason, Brembo and GM never released them. The original plan was for them to be released with the car, but it just didn't happen. They're still unobtanium for the time being.

jas
Are the rotors Brembo supplied units? Because the only difference in the calipers is the color, right?

concorso
12-28-09, 04:44 PM
I totally agree. I will NEVER understand the obsession with BMW interiors. They haven't changed the look in, what, 10 years? :hmm: They do not look all that great to me and never have. I just don't get it.I thought the E39's had great interiors, very inviting. The dash curved back towards you, which made it feel more like a cockpit, whereas the newer E60 makes you feel like you are in an ever-expanding kitchen.

concorso
12-28-09, 04:46 PM
Forgot to mention. What's with BMW cup holders? Hey, let's make them pop outta the dash. One above the passenger's left leg, one above the right. I'd LOVE to be the passenger with 2 hot coffee cups above my legs. Good move there BMW.
That might be because theyre an afterthought meant to please us fat north americans.... ;) You learn to live with a poorly designed cupholder in a BMW that is constantly breaking...Ive given up replacing mine. But you learn to live with a creaky interior in a Cadillac as well. IMO, theyre small niggles.

concorso
12-28-09, 04:53 PM
the BMW interiors are indeed rather spartan looking...but some people like that plain, uncluttered look. i don't terribly mind it, but after driving my V and then getting into my wife's E90, i much rather prefer gazing at the more upscale looking V. i think the plastics and other interior bits are still built more solidly in the BMW though...not as much give when you push the dash panels inward. hopefully the rattle fairies stay away from the V. i have a finely tuned ear to hearing such things and it drives me absolutely batty...the sunroof cover is already starting to make noise when driving over bumps and the like. GO AWAY ye evil squeaks/creaks/rattles!!!!I have had good luck using felt strips between panels that rattle. I dont have enough miles on a new CTS to know if they are still plagued by this. But I do know the CTS I have rattles alot more then the E39 I have. The E39 has 3 times as many miles on it, as well. I really hope Cadillac has addressed the squeeks and rattles on new models...

JFJr
12-28-09, 04:55 PM
Cupholders have no place in high performance cars. At least the "V's" are usefull for storing small items below the center console top surface.

thebigjimsho
12-28-09, 05:20 PM
My '04 V had always been rattle and squeak free.

neuronbob
12-28-09, 05:59 PM
My V is rattle-free at 8300 miles. Ask me again in another 10k miles. :)


I looked at the M5 and M6. I looked at the GT-R. I looked at the Porsche Panamera. I chose the V. And, frankly, I am an Acura guy. I'm used to the HIGHEST customer satisfaction. So far, I ADORE my V. (2010 model, Silver, all bells and whistles.)

Hey, another Acura guy! I owned three prior to making the jump to the V. After Acura decided not to make the one-off Mugen Legend an Acura (500 hp V8, SH-AWD, holy shiznit that car would have hauled on the dragstrip, and I would have bought one), made the new cars ugly, and got rid of anything even remotely interesting to enthusiasts, I'm not sure I'll own another for a while.

Jon
12-28-09, 07:13 PM
That might be because theyre an afterthought meant to please us fat north americans.... ;) You learn to live with a poorly designed cupholder in a BMW that is constantly breaking...Ive given up replacing mine. But you learn to live with a creaky interior in a Cadillac as well. IMO, theyre small niggles.
I gotta say, my '04 is rattle and creak free. And it gets driven hard.... Hell I think on any other car the B&B system would have loosened all the screws

jvp
12-28-09, 07:22 PM
Are the rotors Brembo supplied units? Because the only difference in the calipers is the color, right?

Correct on both counts. Brembo-sourced track rotors. I guess GM decided they wanted something for the dealers to (over?)charge us for: adding "pretty" calipers with the track rotors. The calipers are mechanically identical, with the exact, same pad. The only difference is the red color.

jas

clubracer6
12-29-09, 12:11 PM
This is a great thread and as Americans I think we need to be proud of what has been accomplished by GM here. The G8 GXP was another great car - too bad they killed it. But, back to my point, the fact that we are comparing what has been the best source for rwd sedans for decades (BMW) to the latest V is awesome!

If you are selling your M3 for more room for the kids, are you really getting that much more in the V? I think it's an improvement over the V1, but it's still tight for me... But I'm sure your kids are not 6'2" and 230 lbs either... I have two kids and I think a 5 series would be ideal if the back seat was most important.

About to turn 40 and have probably have close to 40 cars... About 10 of them being BMW's, some as old as 83 and as new as 04. I think BMW has truly lost their way... Even the latest issue of Roundel talked about the poor reliablitiy ratings lately. To me my 04 330ZHP had the best interior of any car period. The guages were easy to read, the right amount of buttons, window switches where they belong (on the center console), great seats in alcantara... the car was perfect except for the fact that it could use more power, but for me, the biggest deal was no limited slip... The fact that you have to buy an M version to get one is annoying from a company that used to tout themselves as a building the "ultimate driving machine".

Back to caddy - I rented a CTS for a weekend to see if I could live with it and I walked away very impressed. It's far from perfect, but I think for 2010 models, it's one of the best interiors out there in this price range and certainly on par with the M5. The available Recaro's and alcantara shifter and steering wheel really show the GM was focused on us hard core enthusiats... These are items that you would normally find on a 911 GT3, and the BMW's with the Competition or ZHP packages and race cars! They are really playing close attention to the details.

For 65k, you get not just heated seats, but ventilated ones, a cool huge sunroof, a nice nav set up, shift lights (which helps make up for the layout), Ipod connectivity that doesn't cost you $400, a radio that allows you to pause and rewind (not even found in a Maybach) and that sweet detuned Ferrari killing ZR1 motor, which you can easily get back to ZR1 levels..

The car is not perfect and besides a Carrera GT or McLaren F1, what is??? ;-)

I almost bought a G8 GXP, but my timing was off, and I've thought long and hard about what to get and your car, plus the M5 and S4 are all options, but I keep coming back to the V. For the price of an M5, I can buy one of these, mod it, keep my 06 VW GLI as a winter beater and still have some money left to pick up a used Corvette, or Turbo Miata, or S2000 etc etc etc.... It becomes a no brainer for me - but make sure you are happy with that back seat!

JBsZ06
12-29-09, 12:37 PM
the question should be.....How many times are you stuffing 6 foot 2 inch tall 230 lb person into the back seat of your car that you would care if they have to be slightly uncomfortable? in a cts v?

I manage to get my quite portly (HUGE) mother and father in law in with one of the kids in the back of the cTS and they never complain about the space.. (not that I care! LOL )

the kids definitely enjoy riding in the back of the CTS so I say go for it..

the CTS V is a smokin hot ride and the deals right now on the 09's if you can move that fast are awesome..

fwiw...I recently saw the new 5 series in person..(maybe the 3?) and its a nice car too..

Your just going to have a slower vehicle...and pay more for it.

Maybe the new m5 with a twin turbo v8 will be even faster than the v....

but I imagine..it'll cost almost twice as much..9with a few options?)

the choice is yours...yet realize of course your on a Cadillac site so the perspective might be skewed?

Good luck and test drive them all one more time to help you decide..

s4ologist
12-29-09, 05:12 PM
My wife and 3 kids took a road trip with me to Dallas (from San Antonio) in the '09 V. My kids are young, though. One sits without a car seat, and the other two just use boosters.

I like Audi interiors the best (style and fit and finish are top notch, IMO). I like BMWs as well, but the interior styling (I'm sure the fit and finish is great) has been a stopping point for me when I was in the market for a new car. I would agree that the Caddy interior styling is very nice, while the fit and finish are not quite as good. As others have said, there is more give (and creaking) when pushing buttons and console pieces.

The sound is a bit muted for some (myself included), and a set of headers (keeping the stock mufflers) did it for me. Not boy-racer loud, but substantial sounding.

concorso
12-29-09, 09:39 PM
Cupholders have no place in high performance cars. At least the "V's" are usefull for storing small items below the center console top surface.An opinion I agree with, but the market certainly doesnt.
I store hand grenades in my cup holders, useful for tailgaters ;)

concorso
12-29-09, 09:42 PM
I gotta say, my '04 is rattle and creak free. And it gets driven hard.... Hell I think on any other car the B&B system would have loosened all the screwsI drive on extremely rough road year round, that may have something to do with it. And while my CTS isnt rattle free, its considerably better then previous GM cars Ive owned. IT really is only the center armrest and sunroof. OR, was the center armrest, which I fixed. I still havent found the rattle in the sunroof tho.

concorso
12-29-09, 09:47 PM
but I imagine..it'll cost almost twice as much..9with a few options?)

The RS6 is about twice the cost of the V in Europe. As much as the RS6 carves its own unique spot in this class, I dont think its worth twice as much... I wish the V offered a few extra upscale options that it doesnt presently have. It could still stay lower in cost then the M5...much lower, while increasing the luxury and potential customer base.

JFJr
12-29-09, 10:24 PM
An opinion I agree with, but the market certainly doesnt.
I store hand grenades in my cup holders, useful for tailgaters ;)Ha Haa! Well, the "market" dumbs down a lot of things! The lowest common denominator usually rules. In Florida some of us call tailgaters "bumperstickers" and we like to give them a blast from our windshield washers when they get too close.

Looney100
12-31-09, 01:13 PM
I don't understand how anyone can say the 3-series has a nicer interior. The BMW's dash is just so ugly and bland. It's like one huge horizontal bar.

In my search for my next vehicle, I looked seriously at the M3. I crossed it off my list for two reasons - 1)The rediculous price of options to get it outfitted to comparable levels with other vehicles in its class; and 2) The bland interior. The 5 series is no better, you need to get into a 6 series before the interiors are decent. The CTS interior is much more appealing.
BMWs in my opinion are ego cars - beautiful from the exterior, but quite bland in the interior. I'd rather have the opposite as I'm going to spend much more time in the car than looking at it from the outside.

Looney100
12-31-09, 01:22 PM
Cupholders have no place in high performance cars. At least the "V's" are usefull for storing small items below the center console top surface.

The CTS V is a luxury sedan with a confortable back seat, not a Superleggera. Cup holders are a must as most V owners are going to be spending more time commuting to & from work than on the track.

Looney100
12-31-09, 01:27 PM
My V is rattle-free at 8300 miles. Ask me again in another 10k miles. :)



Hey, another Acura guy! I owned three prior to making the jump to the V. After Acura decided not to make the one-off Mugen Legend an Acura (500 hp V8, SH-AWD, holy shiznit that car would have hauled on the dragstrip, and I would have bought one), made the new cars ugly, and got rid of anything even remotely interesting to enthusiasts, I'm not sure I'll own another for a while.

I've got an Acura as well. They make a great SUV (MDX), but they'll need to offer something better than that gutless (at low RPM) V6 that they use in all their vehicles before I buy a sedan from them.

PrimaryW
12-31-09, 03:18 PM
I agree with you... Very disappointed in their selection. I even bought my wife a Toyota over the MDX. I miss the "Acura" feeling, but my V is really keeping a smile on my face as long as there isn't 20" of snow or ice-covered roads. And, frankly, their selection of DVD-Audio players... (DVD-Audio discs can be found, but are no longer made)... That pissed me off.

Bonus for the V cause my small collection of them work just great in the V as well so I lost nothing but gas mileage.





My V is rattle-free at 8300 miles. Ask me again in another 10k miles. :)



Hey, another Acura guy! I owned three prior to making the jump to the V. After Acura decided not to make the one-off Mugen Legend an Acura (500 hp V8, SH-AWD, holy shiznit that car would have hauled on the dragstrip, and I would have bought one), made the new cars ugly, and got rid of anything even remotely interesting to enthusiasts, I'm not sure I'll own another for a while.

ecorpuz12
12-31-09, 04:41 PM
Ha Haa! Well, the "market" dumbs down a lot of things! The lowest common denominator usually rules. In Florida some of us call tailgaters "bumperstickers" and we like to give them a blast from our windshield washers when they get too close.


LOL....and i thought i was the only that used "the spray of death" to ward off moronic tailgaters. that method works very well here in NC...it's especially effective during the summer when the bozos have their windows open.

b4z
01-01-10, 09:08 AM
Op,
friend of mine just bought a '07 M5 w/ 22K miles for only 48K. MSRP was 97K.
it is a manual and a awesome car. The SMG cars are disasters.
That may be an option for you.

The negative for me on the V is that the seating position doesn't offer as much adjustment as it could and kneespace is limited. When I say the seating position needs more adjustment I mean that if you are long legged you can't really pull the seat up because the tilt steering wheel doesn't go up high enough and your knees will be rubbing the console and will block the climate control temp guage.

IMO opinion the 3 series offers similiar front legroom but with more adjustability, but the 3 has less rear legroom.

The 5 has more room all around because the cabin is not as pinched.

Having said that the V will be so much cheaper to maintain throughout it's life it is ridiculous. For my SRX i go to costco and buy mobil 1 and have the dealer change it. never been more than $70 and usually less. 2 oil changes a year vs. a BMW's is huge savinggs. Everything is cheaper and parts are plentiful.

Z06ified
01-01-10, 11:30 AM
Op,
friend of mine just bought a '07 M5 w/ 22K miles for only 48K. MSRP was 97K.
it is a manual and a awesome car.

Wow, those M5's really do depreciate a lot. I've heard the M6's depreciate even more. Anyone know why they don't hold their value well? It's kind of surprising to me, considering they are such desireable cars, and there weren't that many made.

JBsZ06
01-01-10, 11:44 AM
Wow, those M5's really do depreciate a lot. I've heard the M6's depreciate even more. Anyone know why they don't hold their value well? It's kind of surprising to me, considering they are such desireable cars, and there weren't that many made.

Repair costs are astronomical on the M5 so used prices drop quite a bit because a buyer of a preowned car that is not certified can crush a wallet. (negating the value portion of buying used)

Fwiw..this is another reason I prefer to buy american ie. corvettes because the maintaince and repairs are minimal in costs..

I imagine the same can be said for the cadillac as well.. although I have yet to make any type of repair on my CTS.

b4z
01-01-10, 11:52 AM
Z06ified, he apparently got it for wholesale, they are usually 53K and up.
But yes, they do depreciate a lot. But we've had people here get brand new V's for $15K off MSRP.

sirjames
01-01-10, 09:00 PM
If you live in America, please buy American. Thank you.

roarkb
01-01-10, 09:34 PM
I just left the Bimmer for a V. Spent 3 years (57k miles) with the BMW and really enjoyed it. However, in many ways the V is a much superior car.

1. The interior of the V is just more comfortable and more useable, love the ipod interface, harddrive, navigation interface.
2. Cupholders stink on the bimmer and rattle incessantly with almost any drink in them.
3. The I-Drive approaches torture. Nothing is intuitive there. After 3 years I had learned to navigate it ok, but even still it was torture.
4. The price difference is huge....I could almost buy a V with the amount the Bimmer depreciated. If fact by purchasing the V instead of the M5, I could have kept the Bimmer for the difference in price between the V and a similarly equiped M5....but I didn't.

Steiner
01-02-10, 04:01 AM
Timely thread. I'm also looking at either an E60 M5 or a V2 CTS-V. One thing I'll have to check out after reading this thread is the leg room on the CTS-V. I'm 6'3" so it can be a deal killer on certain cars.

JFJr
01-02-10, 10:09 AM
Timely thread. I'm also looking at either an E60 M5 or a V2 CTS-V. One thing I'll have to check out after reading this thread is the leg room on the CTS-V. I'm 6'3" so it can be a deal killer on certain cars.Don't forget that the steering wheel telescopes. I have mine set at full extension.

ericpd
01-02-10, 12:04 PM
An opinion I agree with, but the market certainly doesnt.
I store hand grenades in my cup holders, useful for tailgaters ;)

I find the best medicine for tailgaters is to move out of their way. They seem to get confused when you do that. Sometimes they get this blank look on their face similar to the look my mother-in-law gets when confronted with stairs.

ericpd
01-02-10, 12:29 PM
I just left the Bimmer for a V. Spent 3 years (57k miles) with the BMW and really enjoyed it. However, in many ways the V is a much superior car.

1. The interior of the V is just more comfortable and more useable, love the ipod interface, harddrive, navigation interface.
2. Cupholders stink on the bimmer and rattle incessantly with almost any drink in them.
3. The I-Drive approaches torture. Nothing is intuitive there. After 3 years I had learned to navigate it ok, but even still it was torture.
4. The price difference is huge....I could almost buy a V with the amount the Bimmer depreciated. If fact by purchasing the V instead of the M5, I could have kept the Bimmer for the difference in price between the V and a similarly equiped M5....but I didn't.

Well when I was shopping the V, it's main competitor for my dollars was the C63AMG. Coming from a C32AMG, the original plan was to update withing the family. After test driving the V, the though of making such a migration had me feeling a little like a Salmon. Jumped on the V and haven't had any regrets. Now I know the V is compared to the mid sized Benz and BMW cars, but for me, it was the C63 that had to prove itself against the V,... it failed to do so.

The power this thing has is just too emotional to ignore.