: Anyone in Ontario with a good scanner/reader?

12-21-09, 09:49 AM
And knows how to read it?

I am STILL having performance issues. It runs PERFECT other than it has a huge lack of power. I am sure it has something to do with the way it is set up. Any throttle over 20% and it just bags, takes forever to rev. Low throttle you can feel the power/torque us there. I replaced the EVAP valve and the purge code and 2 sensor codes are gone. I want to see what this engine is doing, i want to see it on a reader. Is it running rich? Lean? SOMETHING isnt right.

Drove around last night for about 100 km's and its frustrating as hell knowing the engine is good but when i hit the gas hard its like im just barely touching the pedal. I want this thing running properly.

12-21-09, 10:25 AM
Have you considered a plugged CAT?

12-21-09, 10:36 AM
Cat has less than 10,000 km's on it. We cut yhe exhaust up front just to have a look and its still brand spanking new inside. I'm open to suggestions here though. I DID get a code last night for 02 sensor but no engine light. I cleared it and it has not come back. No PCM codes for 130 km's now.

I dont know how to descrie it exactly... its like im pressing the gas but the throttle cable is not moving as much as the gas pedal? But not really exactly that....

If i floor it, it winds ou slow... if i slowly let back on the pedal while accelerating, it will hit a "good spot" at about 20% pedal where it starts to pull hard. Any more pedal than that and its weak.

12-21-09, 10:40 AM
That gives me an idea! Any difference between the intakes on my 97 STS and my 98 deville? (both VIN 9)

I am cross-checking part numbers from rockauto. So far everything is the same, injectors, throttle-body, sensors ect...

Bobcat is on the trailer. Deville is probably going in the shop tonight. Thatcar runs freaking awesome. Borderline terrifying, definitly white-knuckle when you pass in an 80 zone wih that car. I been thinking my STS issue was somewhere onthe intake side. Maybe ill do a swap tonight and see what happens. I remember when i had the intake off before: the injectors were all shiny silver on the face (under the intake) except one was a rough corroded grey color.

Not too big a job for me... maybe this will work?

12-22-09, 03:06 PM
It sounds like you might just need to replace the throttle cable itself, I don't think you have any electronic problems, as the engine would show it through the codes.

12-22-09, 09:22 PM
yesterday P1441 came back and went away after it was parked for an hour. This was early morning, first cold start. It hasnt come back again, and no codes under PCM at all. I think it might not be the throttle cable cause you can tell by how it sounds that the throttle is wide open, but tomorow i will check that to be sure.

P1441 = EVAP system flow during non-purge event.

I probably still have it hooked up wrong. I took the purge valve off my Deville as-is with all lines attached and slapped it on my STS. So now there is a solenoid there with 2 vacuum ports and an electrical connector that has nothing plugged in. Im not even sure its for this car, it may have been on the engine when i put it in.

12-24-09, 08:37 AM
Check your fuel pressure. It sounds to me like the pump cannot keep up with the demand. Check it at idle and then check it at 3000 rpms. Check it at 4000 rpms. It should not drop with increase in engine speed. I've seen numbers all over the map, anywhere from 42-55 psi is ok. Any less and you've got a problem. I'm going to have to lean toward what Ranger said (plugged cat), low fuel pressure, or failing coils (weak/no spark).

12-24-09, 08:39 AM
Low fuel pressure can throw lean codes, don't forget.... what these cars really need is a built in troubleshooting system for the fuel system: i.e. P0??? - low fuel pressure...... which they don't have.

12-24-09, 09:17 AM
:alchi::alchi:i remember when we first got the engine running that the FPR was a bit wet but i decided to just monitor it. I havent noticed anything...

I pulled and cleaned my O2 fuses.... it seems like every time i mess with something the codes go for a day or 2 and come back. Well, its been 24 hours and its early morning and i dont wana look. They always come back in the morning cold start. I drove all last night with no O2 codes but still had the EVAP code.

I will check fuel pressure, likely after x-mas :P What im thinking now is thats a pretty big hose for the EVAP and if the valve is open and the cannister is dry.... thats a pretty big vacuum leak. Since i cleaned the O2 fuses (they were bad, all my fuses have a dry/milky residue on them) i have noticed a change in the "power band" so-to-speak. It goes to about 4500rpm now and loses a lot of power after that. Maybe if the cannister is dry ill just pull the hose and plug that hole, see what it does :) This car has been all about experimenting for me heh.

Thanks for the tips, ill work on all those this week. (i have a gas tank behind my garage with a "good"? fuel pump :alchi:

12-26-09, 09:04 PM
Someone else chime in here................does this series of Northstar have a Torque Limiter function?? This little-known control will drop out 2 or 4 injectors at a full or part-throttle application, the intake sounds like a wide open vacuum cleaner, and the car accelerates slowly with obvious loss of power. The control is designed to prevent drivetrain damage from too much power !!!

I'm not kidding - start looking for a Torque Limiter malfunction. It's very similar to the wheel speed limiter function, but kicks in under a different set of circumstances.

12-26-09, 09:14 PM
I think they all have that. It's part of T/C. If the ABS does not get wheel spin under control, then the PCM starts to drop injectors, if that's what you are talking about Sub.

12-26-09, 10:44 PM
As you originally posted, a proper scantool is needed to monitor what the engine is doing, this will determine if the fuel pump is not working properly, albeit indirectly as only a fuel pressure gage is going to tell you the pressure, the scanner will also determine if the ABS/TC is causing a power drop as Sub Suggested and you will be able to check your evap solenoid with the built in tests. It should be noted as well, some of the these codes may be pending, as they require two failures to trigger the SeS light, you may have some in waiting, the built in code reader will not tell you that.

12-27-09, 12:40 AM
Ch as the gas pedal? But not really exactly that....

If i floor it, it winds ou slow... if i slowly let back on the pedal while accelerating, it will hit a "good spot" at about 20% pedal where it starts to pull hard. Any more pedal than that and its weak.

Could be TPS, if these cars still have one.

01-04-10, 08:56 AM
I FINALY fixed that evap code. Found a friendly fellow 40 mins from me with some cady's he was parting out, happened to have a 97. Picked up the whole EVAP assebly minus the solenoid for 20 bucks. Got all the vacuum lines and the purge valve. Plugged it all in, piece of cake! 400km later and no EVAP codes, and there is a difference in consistancy.

So im still getting 02 sensor heater codes for 3 sensors, and once in a while i get an engine light for P0327 (knock sensor low voltage) and the light has gone out on its own twice within 10 minutes.

But alas.... it looks like this engine is coming out anyway, and i may be saying goodbye to this car..... she was a GREAT learning experience.... if i have my way, ill be keeping both..