: 87 brougham engine swap



LupoNero
12-14-09, 04:05 AM
Was wondering if it could be swapped with a 454, basically i want to decrease the 0-60 time of the car and keep the gas mileage about the same. If theyre are better swaps id love to hear them

outsider
12-14-09, 09:49 AM
i think the olds 350 is a direct swap, as well as a few others. search forums and you'll get TONS of info

greencadillacmatt
12-14-09, 01:42 PM
Olds 350, 403, and even the 455 are direct bolt-ins. If you do go the 455 route, you will need a stronger trans.

LupoNero
12-14-09, 04:57 PM
thanks the 305 and 445 sound good, the 305 would work with the transmission in the car? and with the 445 what kind of transmission would be needed? also the 305 with 300hp wouldn't need a different transmission?

greencadillacmatt
12-14-09, 11:54 PM
From what I have read in car craft, the TH-2004r (the current trans) is rated at being able to handle 300 hp. A Chevy 305 will bolt to the 2004r with no modificatition. You would need different engine mounts for the Chevy engine. If you go with the Olds 455, then a TH-400 is what you would want, but you would loose overdrive. (It's only a three speed.) This is one of the strongest stock GM trans' you can get. It's what they origionally put behind the Olds 455. I don't know if the TH-400 just bolts in. I think that it clears the floor pan, but I think that the trans crossmember needs to be moved back slightly. Anybody else know about this?

LupoNero
12-15-09, 03:28 AM
im thinking the olds 350 is the best bet, just out of curiosity was wondering if anyone had a ballpark of how much its going to cost?

sven914
12-15-09, 10:01 AM
If you are looking for a cheap power upgrade that will keep your fuel efficiency, then I recommend rebuilding your 307 as a VIN 9. Your current engine is probably the standard VIN Y engine, which makes 140 HP. You can rebuild your engine as a VIN 9 to make 180 HP, by exchanging the heads and carburettor for ones off a VIN 9 307. VIN 9 cars also got larger vibration dampeners and duel exhaust.

Older, '60's 350 engines make 300+ horsepower, but newer ones from, '75 on, range between 160 and 180 horsepower. The VIN Y 307 makes 140 horsepower, and if you can build a VIN 9 307 out of it, then it will match the 350 at 180 horsepower.

outsider
12-15-09, 10:24 AM
If you are looking for a cheap power upgrade that will keep your fuel efficiency, then I recommend rebuilding your 307 as a VIN 9. Your current engine is probably the standard VIN Y engine, which makes 140 HP. You can rebuild your engine as a VIN 9 to make 180 HP, by exchanging the heads and carburettor for ones off a VIN 9 307. VIN 9 cars also got larger vibration dampeners and duel exhaust.

Older, '60's 350 engines make 300+ horsepower, but newer ones from, '75 on, range between 160 and 180 horsepower. The VIN Y 307 makes 140 horsepower, and if you can build a VIN 9 307 out of it, then it will match the 350 at 180 horsepower.

any chance you know where (links?) we could get the parts to build a vin 9? :)

sven914
12-15-09, 10:49 AM
As for the parts; a donor car will probably be best. You can find junk Olds engines all over junk yards, but to find the VIN 9 engines, look for Cutlasses and Buick Regals (only 1% of all Cadillac Brougham's came with the high output engine). The heads used on the VIN 9, will work with a different intake manifold, so if you can't find the right carburettor (which is usually the first thing harvested) you can put on a Holly.

As for useful links: performanceolds307.com (http://performanceolds307.tripod.com/index.html)

csbuckn
12-15-09, 10:59 AM
vin 9 have flat tappet lifters, vin y have roller lifters. Do you plan on doing it yourself?

LupoNero
12-15-09, 08:44 PM
idk really im just trying to get the car to do a 0-60 in like 7-9 secs maybe 10secs while trying to keep the gas mileage the same or close to it. about the 350 they dont build new ones rated at 300 horses?

jayoldschool
12-15-09, 08:50 PM
If you are looking for a 7 second 0-60 with good mileage, you want an LT1 or an LS style motor.

LupoNero
12-15-09, 09:02 PM
basically i have an 84 deville with the 4100 now and i think its too slow and am in the process of buying the brougham and thinking ahead. I wouldn't swap the engine until the spring or summer but just fishing for opinions and options. the VIN 9 sounds interesting as well

LupoNero
12-15-09, 09:44 PM
sry for the double post but i couldn't edit, basically this vin 9 isnt an engine swap but swapping some parts of the engine? about how much would this cost? im assuming its not too hard to accomplish? a noticeable increase in acceleration?

greencadillacmatt
12-15-09, 10:03 PM
Is your car a 1984 or a 1987? The thread says it is an '87, but your profile says it is a 1984. If it is a 1984, the info below about the HT-4100 below is relevent. If it is a 1987, then yes, you can do just a head and intake swap on your 307. Any Olds 260, 307, 350, 403, or 455 will bolt in.

If you have an HT-4100 engine, it is a 4.1 liter (250 CU-IN) engine. The Olds 307 is a different engine entirely. 307 CU-IN, 5.0L. You would need the entire engine if you would like to put one in your car, if it is an '84. It will physically bolt in to your Cadillac, with no modifications necessary, but it never came with one (if it's an '84). The Olds 307 will also bolt right to your 2004r trans, and it uses the same torque converter. It is a straight bolt-in job, and the only thing that needs changed is converting it from fuel-injection to carberation. If you do get an Olds 350, on the other hand, DO NOT get a 1977 or newer engine. Get a '76 or older. The main webbings (the part of the block that holds the main bearings) are weaker on the 1977 and newer engines. This results in a tendancy for the crankshaft to wobble around at higher RPM. I have a 1976 Olds 350, with a spicier camshaft, an upgraded valvetrain, and a re-ring/bearing kit. It ran me about $1500 or so for everything. Olds parts will usually cost you a little bit more than Chevy parts, but they are VERY reliable engines. Good Luck!

sven914
12-15-09, 10:04 PM
sry for the double post but i couldn't edit basically this vin 9 isnt an engine swap but swapping some parts of the engine? about how much would this cost? im assuming its not too hard to accomplish?

Price is all about part availability, but it would defiantly be cheaper and eaisier than a complete engine swap.

LupoNero
12-16-09, 09:20 PM
sry for the confusion, i have an 84 deville atm and i am getting rid of it for an 87 brougham i found for sale, just asking about the brougham just for down the line

LupoNero
12-20-09, 05:18 AM
sry for the bump but ive been looking around and cant find alot on the 307 vin 9 basically what i want to know is if its worth it to do, im basically trying to get the car to do 0-60 in about 8-9 secs instead of the 10-14 ive been reading about with the regular vin y sry again i dont know much about engine's

csbuckn
12-20-09, 11:55 AM
If you see the RWD Oldsmobiles that have V8s, those are olds small/big blocks that will bolt in. If you go back to the early 70s, you could get an olds 350 and still have decent gas mileage. The vin 9 307 should give you about 40 more hp. The link will give you alot of info about olds motors. We got a vin 9 in the 87 and its worth it to me. He can do little burnouts and stuff and takes off pretty nice, we got the motor out of a mid 80 cutlass I think. The link should have info on the vin 9. Scroll down to 307s and theres alot of info.
http://oldsjunction.classicoldsmobile.com/oldsfaq/

Stingroo
12-20-09, 06:32 PM
^ Mid 80's Cutlass's did have them. That's what our Cutlass had before it was replaced by the 403.

87caddy
12-10-10, 04:54 PM
Hello,
I was reading in your forum that you were planning on doing an engine swap in your caddy. Did you ever complete this? I currently have an 87 fleetwood brougham and have been considering an ls2 or ls7. This is a few years down the road but I have never seen one with a vet motor in it. I was just wondering if you completed your project and if you were happy with the results. Thanks for your time.

cadillac kevin
12-11-10, 11:29 AM
I wouldnt put a vette motor in a brougham. too much work to make it fit (motor mount, exhuast might not work right, not to mention you'd have to put in the computer and wire it all up. drop in a 68-72 olds 350 or 455 and you will be pretty happy with the poweroutput. if driven conservatively , mileage isnt that bad

NYCOUPE
12-12-10, 08:03 PM
IM also looking to do a swap of my great running 4100 but I dont know about going that big. Unless you have a gas truck parked in your driveway

cadillac kevin
12-12-10, 09:41 PM
@ nycoupe
you can swap in pretty much any olds or older caddy V8 using the motor mounts from different years of rwd 80's cadillacs. I'm not sure if you could drop in a newer northstar in place of your 4.1, but I wouldnt recommend it because of the amount of custom fab work (exhaust, wiring, hoses, computer, etc.)
as for a gas tanker in your driveway, it depends on the engine you get
and whether you like to drive with a lead foot.
a 68-72 olds 350 with a stock rebuild will get you at least 300 hp, 350 ft/ lbs of torque, and about 15 to 17 mpg all around if your keep your foot out of the throttle
a pre '73 455 olds will get you near 400 hp and 510 ft/lbs of torque with a stock rebuild, but will get 8 to 18 mpg depending on driving style and output (low output is about 360 hp and 510 ft/lbs, high output is roughly 400 hp and 500+ ft/lbs of torque)- manufacturer claimed figures of course
a caddy 500 is a fast powerful engine that weighs a ton, and can pull stumps, but it also sucks gas like crazy (best mileage I've heard from them is 12 mpg all around, and thats when driving very conservatively.)

RocketFast321
12-15-10, 04:08 PM
LT1 swap

outsider
12-15-10, 04:23 PM
^ That's my goal eventually :)

Stingroo
12-15-10, 05:53 PM
Ls > lt

sven914
12-15-10, 06:34 PM
^500 > 472 > 425 > 368 > 350 > LS > LT

(Cadillac > Oldsmobile > Chevrolet)

outsider
12-16-10, 08:42 AM
that's obvious, but I like the LT1 because they're cheaper to find, reliable, and get good mileage. :)

cadillac kevin
12-16-10, 10:45 AM
wouldnt you have to get special motor mounts for a LT or LS series motor? or could you just use ones from a caprice/ 93-96 fleetwood/ roadmaster with the LT motor (dunno if they came with LS series).

outsider
12-16-10, 11:10 AM
dunno, but I would cross that bridge when i came to it...if nothing else I would just have my girlfriend's father fab some up :D