: Z28 instead of CTSV



backup
12-09-09, 08:17 PM
Would you consider a Z28 instead of a CTSV, if it has the LSA? Assume the Z28 is around $45k loaded, LSA with 550hp, upgraded suspension (but not mag shocks), different hood, upgraded wheels and tires, etc. Hypothetical of course, since it doesn't exist yet, but curious how many would consider such a Z28 instead of the CTSV.

everestsdad
12-09-09, 08:33 PM
Not me. The Camaro hit my head the first and only time I got in it and did not do much for me after that.

commander112
12-09-09, 08:36 PM
Z28 is not for me. My boy racer days are long gone. I'd just look like and old guy trying to hold on to my youth in a ride like that. The Caddy has a certain level of sophistication to it.

6104696
12-09-09, 08:44 PM
apples and oranges.

Fubar75207
12-09-09, 08:46 PM
If you are talking about the 2011 CTS-V coup then they would comparable cars. I'd still go with the V... but you are asking this question on the "cadillacforums"

JBsZ06
12-09-09, 08:58 PM
Not sure which one I'd go for...

I like the Z28 with the LSA motor...for 45 grand...and it would be tough to pass on..

The CTS V coupe would pull at my heart strings too..

Both great rides.. I'd probably go for the Z28 for the lower cost..

I recently drove the CTS V sedan and its a hell of ride...

Hard to not dig the beauty and speed of the LSA lineup of GM vehicle...

6104696
12-09-09, 09:03 PM
If you are talking about the 2011 CTS-V coup then they would comparable cars. I'd still go with the V... but you are asking this question on the "cadillacforums"


I guess I would need to understand what elements are "comparable" when you compare a (nonexistent, as yet) $65K luxury performance car (2 or 4 doors) to a (nonexistent, as yet) $45k ponycar. If you consider them to be comparable, then the Camaro would be the one to get.

My V is a completely different driving experience than my ponycar (which happens to be a mustang GT......and the GT is comparable to a camaro and a challenger in many more ways than a V).

But the real answer is you get the one that you can afford, and the one that you like the best.

DStetter
12-09-09, 09:06 PM
The Caddy has a certain level of sophistication to it.


:yeah:

Exactly how I feel about the V.

While I do like the Camaro looks and the SLP ZL575 is interesting, once you sit inside of any Camaro all that it offers with it's outside looks are lost.

Dennis

BacDoc
12-09-09, 10:00 PM
I cut my mullet years ago.

neuronbob
12-09-09, 10:02 PM
If I needed a weekend toy to go along with the V, yes. However, I've got an S2000 that I own free and clear, so I have no need for one.

Nevertheless..... :drool:

CTSVeee
12-09-09, 10:07 PM
I was considering a Camaro SS and never had any intention of buying a CTS-V. I was looking everywhere for Camaros and they just were not dealing on them. I got 0% and 8k off the sticker on my V.....I'm a sucker for a good deal, even if it costs twice as much. :D

Now that I have the V and drive it everyday, the Camaro is not even comparable to this vehicle. The exterior is just so classy, while the interior is beautiful and high-tech. I love bad-ass muscle cars, my previous cars were a heads/cam Trans Am WS6 'vert and a bolt-on C6. Both making over 400 at the wheels.

However, this V is nearly as quick (have not been to the track yet to verify) and has more room and handles better than both of those rides, IMHO. Then the interior is the icing on the cake.

Everyday I come home from work/gym I proceed to ask my girlfriend "Have I told you how much I love this car?" LOL

roarkb
12-09-09, 10:16 PM
Not me, Car and Driver current issue says "CTS-V is the best American car ever built"

It is a very comfortable car, can carry 4 passengers in comfort. Easily the best car I have ever owned.

GMX322V S/C
12-09-09, 10:23 PM
For starters, the LS3 should have been the Z/28 and the LSA the SS. Styling overdone and cheap-looking interior. 'Nuff said.

LITTLEELVISDAN
12-09-09, 11:26 PM
Would you consider a Z28 instead of a CTSV, if it has the LSA? Assume the Z28 is around $45k loaded, LSA with 550hp, upgraded suspension (but not mag shocks), different hood, upgraded wheels and tires, etc. Hypothetical of course, since it doesn't exist yet, but curious how many would consider such a Z28 instead of the CTSV.It's called a CTS-V Coupe for me. Why give up Caddy service and luxury for a Chevy unless its a ZR-1.

GM-4-LIFE
12-09-09, 11:59 PM
The Camaro will NEVER have that Cadillac ride the CTS-V has. Once you drive a CTS-V, a Camaro will feel cheap and sub-par. I can tell you that before the Z28 ever makes it's debut.

The CTS-V's premium price tag over the Camaro Z28 is worth every penny to me. The price of the Z28 makes it very appealing, but always remember, you get what you pay for.

SG

JBsZ06
12-10-09, 07:43 AM
CTS V coupe reaching towards 70 large and very luxurious...
Camaro Z28 LSA around 45 grand? Nice vehicle and quite a bit less..

At fifty with an AWD CTS 300hp FE2 and an 08 Z51 vette? I'm not selling either yet could use a 2 + 2 and would get a kick out of the LSA motor in the camaro...

I'd go for the camaro only because I don't have one..

If I were buying just one vehicle...? Then it would be a tougher choice and might go for the CTS V coupe..

since both the vette and the CTS AWD are owned free and clear maybe I'll take a test drive of the new Z28 when it rolls into showrooms...

I'm also looking forward to test driving the upcoming ATS V which might be the best of both worlds to me..

Depends on the powerplant but a twin turbo 425 hp V6 in an ATS V might be an interesting choice as well...

marktanner
12-12-09, 02:23 PM
So far, none of the Camaros have the handling prowess of the G8 GXP, much less the CTS-V. Heck, the V handles better than the Mustang Shelby, which would be the Camaro Z28"s natural competition. The Camaro would need to make a lot of changes to begin to be a competitor to the way the V drives, not to mention dealing with the crap interior of the Camaro as it currently stands. If you want a cheap drag racer, the Z28 would be a great choice, but as a complete package the V can't be beat even at $60-70 K. The V coupe will only provide further competition for any sporty coupe.

NeedCTS-v
12-12-09, 02:32 PM
I personally cannot stand the interior in those things.

For my 45Gs, I'd go into a slightly used Z06, but since I have the V I don't need to to. Just a different class of car. Remember, it's not just the engine, it's the entire package.

JBsZ06
12-12-09, 06:56 PM
So far, none of the Camaros have the handling prowess of the G8 GXP, much less the CTS-V. Heck, the V handles better than the Mustang Shelby, which would be the Camaro Z28"s natural competition. The Camaro would need to make a lot of changes to begin to be a competitor to the way the V drives, not to mention dealing with the crap interior of the Camaro as it currently stands. If you want a cheap drag racer, the Z28 would be a great choice, but as a complete package the V can't be beat even at $60-70 K. The V coupe will only provide further competition for any sporty coupe.

I think your wrong.. I think the Z28 will slant more towards sport and the CTS V will slant towards luxury..

Both great cars built on similiar chassis design...

One built to a price and one built towards excellence in luxury as well as performance..

Different focus but both awesome..

JEM
12-12-09, 07:47 PM
The Camaro's a misshapen turd with no glass area.

The CTS-V sedan's outward visibility is nothing special, it's about the least I could ever live with, but it is livable. I doubt the coupe will be as good.

What is it with all this modern junk, from Camaro to Benz CLS to Scion xB, with their tiny little windows? It's atrocious. First time I got in the Benz I got right back out, I wouldn't even think about driving it.

JBsZ06
12-12-09, 08:44 PM
The camaro z28 is a turd? Holly crap..

wfo
12-12-09, 08:48 PM
i really like the look of the new Camaro... But, I'm also really liking the CTS-V Coupe. If the V Coupe looks as good in final production as it does in the renderings it would be a pretty hard sell to get me to go with a Camaro. Also the level of service from Chevy dealer sucks.

ericpd
12-12-09, 10:25 PM
I'd stay with the V. My brother owned a '69 Zap a long, long time ago,... I was 8 when you got that thing, and all I could do was dream. LOL! Now,... I'm a little too old for one of those things now. But just to think of the havoc an LSA in that body would rain down on man-kind makes me smile.

mugatu22
12-12-09, 11:20 PM
I cut my mullet years ago.

:thumbsup: BWAHAHAH!! So perfectly summed up in one sentence. Props!

cmicasa
12-13-09, 08:18 AM
The Camaro in general is HOT, but I don't see how the Camaro RS, SS, or Z28 in any way will compete with the CTS, CTC, or CTS/C-V. The LSA is an engine... not the car. Personally I think the LSA should be in the Z06, and the upcoming top tier Cadillac S-Class competitor. As should the LS9

JBsZ06
12-13-09, 11:42 AM
The Camaro in general is HOT, but I don't see how the Camaro RS, SS, or Z28 in any way will compete with the CTS, CTC, or CTS/C-V. The LSA is an engine... not the car. Personally I think the LSA should be in the Z06, and the upcoming top tier Cadillac S-Class competitor. As should the LS9

Your absolutely right...there is no comparision really between say a CTS V coupe and a camaro Z28 other than they might share the powerplant..

the cadillac is a luxury Grand Touring super fast sport coupe..

the Z28 should be a rough and ready pony car with the balance towards hihg performance and barely anything else..

The CTS V does both just as well... It also offers the driver and the passengers a luxurious ride at the same time..

As a consumer? those that want the luxurous experience...will pay more money for it.. and thats the bottom line..

For the Z28? it'll be all about performance and a firm ride..

Much the same way corvette offers a 4lt interior and a F55 magnetic ride suspension for probably 12 to 14 grand extra..

With the camaro ..it won't be available... (other than the LSA powerplant) and thats the difference...

Since I already have an aWD 300hp V6 FE2 CTS....and a corvette with the LS3 two seater...

I'd probably dream more about adding a 2 + 2 Z28 road racer and not replacing either of the other two cars I currently own..

Just adding to it...

If I were replacing? then the CTS V and V coupe would be first priority choice without a doubt..

Drove one and it was dam tempting!!!!! Wow...you guys have a great ride!

JEM
12-13-09, 12:22 PM
I'd stay with the V. My brother owned a '69 Zap a long, long time ago,... I was 8 when you got that thing, and all I could do was dream. LOL! Now,... I'm a little too old for one of those things now. But just to think of the havoc an LSA in that body would rain down on man-kind makes me smile.

I'd happily have a '69. One of the prettiest shapes ever built. The structure sucked, and the chassis was average-Detroit-oxcart, but that can be fixed (just throw $)

But the new one's a disaster. It's another one of these newish vehicles like the Chrysler 300/Dodge Charger where the beltline's at least two inches too high, and the windows are two inches too short. The Challenger's prettier, but even it is a ponderous-looking monster as soon as you realize what they did (cut the original shape about at the bumper line and stuck in three more inches of body - a reverse-sectioning, if you will.)

All the new 'ponycars', even the Mustang, look like shipping crates for the originals. They're not 'ponycars', they're fat old plowhorses.

JBsZ06
12-13-09, 12:42 PM
I'd happily have a '69. One of the prettiest shapes ever built. The structure sucked, and the chassis was average-Detroit-oxcart, but that can be fixed (just throw $)

But the new one's a disaster. It's another one of these newish vehicles like the Chrysler 300/Dodge Charger where the beltline's at least two inches too high, and the windows are two inches too short. The Challenger's prettier, but even it is a ponderous-looking monster as soon as you realize what they did (cut the original shape about at the bumper line and stuck in three more inches of body - a reverse-sectioning, if you will.)

All the new 'ponycars', even the Mustang, look like shipping crates for the originals. They're not 'ponycars', they're fat old plowhorses.

I had a 69 convertible firebird 350 with a worked motor, rebuilt suspension, bright yellow with black top and interior..in the mid seventies and it was a great car.. so I'm sure I'm biased..

This new one...IMO (and of course its just a personal choice) is better looking than the 69..

I really like the chopped top feel in the new camaro with the short side windows.. Makes me feel like I'm driving a show car for the street...right from the factory..

I think thats a benefit..not a detriment.. The LSa motor just makes this new Z28 a true competitor to the ford GT500..

just the way someone would not really compare a GT500 to a CTS V...you wouldn't really compare the Z28 to the CTS V...

Its a different league..

One is an M5 competitor...and one is maybe an M3 competitor or a ford GT500 competitor..

M5 competes with CTS V
M3 or Ford GT500 competes with the Z28...

The m3 might be a stretch...so thats where...I beleive the upcoming ATS V will come in...M3 vs. ATS V..

Just shooting the breeze and not arguing..with you guys who are lucky enough to own a CTS V..

The CTS V really a class or two above the Z28.. and of course.. priced accordingly..

garfin
12-13-09, 08:25 PM
Great thread with some poignant and interesting comments!
From my standpoint, however, I'd reverse the wording of the thread to read CTS-V instead of Z/28... and I know there are a couple of members here who know from where I'm coming...

I have been attempting to justify my purchasing a CTS-V now for almost a year... and I believe I've finally (at 60 years old) arrived at seeing the logic needed to justify this decision. This car turns my crank like nothing else has in the last 12 years - when I bought my '98 Camaro SS - which I have "transformed" (if you will...;) into a street legal track car that I take out onto the MIR (Mosport International Raceway) Grand Prix track, just east of Toronto, for at least 1, but sometimes 2 lapping days each season.

That being said, my 1st Cadillac was a '70 Fleetwood Brougham and then a '76 Fleetwood Talisman. Not exactly a reasonable comparison to a V2!!
But my wife currently drives a pristine '99 STS (which I also enjoy driving}. I've never had a problem with the level of luxury and driver ambiance that Cadillacs have provided for me!

I have also been involved with GM for almost 3 years as one of the 15 Camaro "Disciples" - a group of 15 hard-core Camaro enthusiasts who GM has consulted with, on a continuous basis over this period of time, on issues, questions and suggestions, as to what this car would need to be, in order to achieve success in the marketplace.

I have campaigned loudly and vigorously to the "Camaro Team" for a Z/28, and I suspect that car just might happen at some point in time after the introduction of the Camaro convertible, slated for production during the 1st quarter of 2011. As much as I love the Camaro, and what it stands for, I choose not to wait for what might be realistically another 2 years, before I can get my mitts on a Z/28.

I've driven both manual (thank you Hawkeye2) and automatic versions of the CTS-V and I totally appreciate both the V2 and the new Camaro. They are both incredible cars that are total grand slam home runs for their respective markets. I don't think GM is anticapting a whole lot of people cross-shopping these 2 fantastic cars... but...if the Z/28 was available today would I buy one? Maybe... 'cuz there's a level of sensory/visceral input that is present in the new Camaro that the V2 does not provide to the driver (IMHO).
No matter - 'cuz the V2 obviously "takes care of business" - like nothin' else in its price range!:cool: And I'm totally there... it just might be a little difficult to say good-bye to my old track warrior. We've evolved together since my 1st track day with him in 1999 (Camaros are definitely masculine), and that has allowed me to achieve one of my childhood dreams - that being to learn how to drive a fast car on a racetrack.

Thanks for listening!

Best regards,

Elie

Caroutisine
12-13-09, 09:00 PM
Camaro is an awesome car too.

Here's a upgrade to the new one for about the same price as a V2:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNcZeqG082A

TrevorD
12-13-09, 09:03 PM
I have both, so I'll chime in. The 2010 Camaro SS is certainly a huge step up (no pun intended) over the 4th generation car. But, 4,000 lb. is pretty portly. My car dynoed 370 RWHP stock, but it feels like 200 RWHP with all of the weight. It makes 530 RWHP with the 422 stroker, and it's now to the point of being somewhat entertaining. For me, I just can't get 100% comfortable in the car. It has small windows; the side windows don't start until my shoulder! The hood sits high, and true to an f-body, you have unbelievable blind spots. The car feels big when sitting in it. It rides well for an f-body, but it's still an f-body. The dash and radio placement is awkward, and the car doesn't handle very well. It's much improved after I installed the Eibach springs and sway bars. I know that the Z28 model will have some improvements on suspension, but it will still probably sit too high. I like driving my Camaro because it still gets attention, not just from people still gawking at Camaros, but also from the lopey cam and lowered stance. It's a fun car for a weekend car, but the CTS-V is much better as an all-around vehicle. The V has a much better feel, ride, quality, amenities, etc. It even has a usable back seat! If you haven't tried jamming yourself into the back seat of a 2010 Camaro, I don't recommend it. Once you're there, you can't sit straight up if you're over 5'6". But, again, it's an f-body. They're not supposed to have a big back seat. I just didn't expect to not have headroom either! It's really no biggie, though, because I never carry anyone in the backseat anyways. The V is super easy to modify. You can cruise around with 550+ RWHP with minimal mods. The Camaro can do the same thing with some mods, but it either takes a stroker or a Magnuson, headers, etc. A Magnuson, headers, and the other normal bolt-ons will run you $10,000+. It can cost a LOT more if you get a package from one of the "tuners" that bolts on a Magnuson, some decals, and some wheels and thinks it adds $20,000+ to the price of the vehicle.

The great thing about the V is it does everything well. It has a subtle, muscle car stance with a huge muscle car feel. In the midst of that, it can still ride like the luxury car that it is. It doesn't have the in-your-face appeal that turns every head, but it's absolutely awesome to be able to pick on unsuspecting victims. I'm anxious for the spring when I can take it to Sonic on Friday night and pick on a few f-bodies and Mustangs. :D

CTS-V for the win!

Trevor

218BEE
12-13-09, 09:11 PM
I own both a 2010 Camaro SS and a 2009 CTS V. If they do bring out the Z28, I would consider buying it. That said, There is NO comparison-of any kind between the two. I had the V for 4 months before the Camaro, sad day, but the Camaro is a huge disappointment to me, in everything but looks. It sits in the garage and the V gets driven. Had I had the Camaro first, maybe not as big of letdown. But the V doesn't have an equal.

V-Eight
12-13-09, 09:18 PM
For starters, the LS3 should have been the Z/28 and the LSA the SS. Styling overdone and cheap-looking interior. 'Nuff said.

Why? For every generation except the 4th, the z28 was the top model.

homesite
12-13-09, 09:52 PM
MY Lambo Murcielago fulfills my sport car needs.

wfo
12-14-09, 07:40 AM
I guess no one has a problem with Chevy level of customer care/service. When I sold my 08 Z06 which I loved and stepped into a Cadillac V they/GM/Dealership stepped their customer service game. I'm greeted promptly, plastic gets draped over my seat, and offered a nice place to wait with a paper to read, coffee, hot choc, soft drinks, granite counter topped lavs...

You catch what I'm saying....the Cadillac product is an experience. When done right, the Cadillac dealership alone is worth the extra money. The loaner car and all special treatment when repair or evaluation will take more than expected is worth the money.

,

LITTLEELVISDAN
12-14-09, 07:56 AM
The Camaro's a misshapen turd with no glass area.

The CTS-V sedan's outward visibility is nothing special, it's about the least I could ever live with, but it is livable. I doubt the coupe will be as good.

What is it with all this modern junk, from Camaro to Benz CLS to Scion xB, with their tiny little windows? It's atrocious. First time I got in the Benz I got right back out, I wouldn't even think about driving it.Smart cars and Mini's have nice big windows..... Enjoy

GMX322V S/C
12-14-09, 04:22 PM
Why? For every generation except the 4th, the z28 was the top model.I was just thinking of the 1st-gen, blunt object, HP hierarchy: Z/28, SS396, SS427 Yenko, ZL-1...

Hawkeye2
12-14-09, 05:08 PM
Elie, your welcome. Now go and buy the f'n car, or I'll start calling you whipped! It was about one year ago we started this,
I have mine, now go on....DO IT!

V-Eight
12-14-09, 05:36 PM
I was just thinking of the 1st-gen, blunt object, HP hierarchy: Z/28, SS396, SS427 Yenko, ZL-1...

Ah, I was just speaking about the 'from the factory' versions.

6104696
12-15-09, 06:02 AM
MY Lambo Murcielago fulfills my sport car needs.

:worship:

DrumStix
12-16-09, 04:07 PM
Would you consider a Z28 instead of a CTSV, if it has the LSA? Assume the Z28 is around $45k loaded, LSA with 550hp, upgraded suspension (but not mag shocks), different hood, upgraded wheels and tires, etc. Hypothetical of course, since it doesn't exist yet, but curious how many would consider such a Z28 instead of the CTSV.

You might consider yourself a redneck if looking at a Z28.... I'm just sayin. :stirpot:

JD03Cobra
12-17-09, 03:21 PM
First off if you go to GM.com and add all options on the current SS it can sticker at 45k. I would expect the Z28 to be closer to the 50K mark like it's competitior, the Shelby. I'm sure initially there will be a dealer markup as well.

I would take the 2 or 4 door CTS V over a Camaro any day. I think it looks better inside and out.