Ok so I’m not mechanically inclined, but I thought I could check a few fuses without rendering my car completely worthless!!!

I just bought a very nice 1990 Deville. AC blower doesn’t work and front end bottoms out but it runs very strong. The radio stays on when I pull the key, but it goes off later on its own. Seems a bit fishy…

It stumbles on acceleration stalled a few times, but the real problem was when it started stalling out for no reason whatsoever, even when I was not touching the gas pedal - several times one day. The electricity stayed on, but the engine cut off out of the blue. It would always start right back up if I turned the key back to the off position first.

Then it over heated and I had to change a fuse. That fixed that. Probably not related.

So I figure with it stalling out why not check the other fuses? They were all fine. The radio cut out once or twice but came back on when I put the fuse back in its place.

Someone told me there were more fuses so I got the book, found another place (under the glove box) and checked those fuses. They were all fine, though some were sparky when I plugged them back in.

I decided to start the car when I was done to be sure everything worked. It seems whatever intermittent problem caused it to stall is now a permanent problem – the car will not start. It seems like something is not letting it run once it cranks up. It turns over, sounds like it started, and within half a second shuts back off. Exact same thing, no matter how many times you try it. :banghead:

The battery suddenly drained the next day but my friend charged it and the battery seems to be holding the electricity. Odd. Guy working at jiffy lube said it drained because it thought I was trying to steal it. I would think it would have drained the night I screwed it up though, not the next day.

The starting stuff sopunds decent, it does not seem to have any trouble at all turning over and starting, it just shuts right back down. Is there some code that needs reset somehow?

I did try leaving the battery disconnected for a while, then I tried touching the + and - wires that go to the bettery together for a few seconds. Same thing.

Before I bought the car I had to charge the battery to test-drive it but it ran fine. She said it had just been sitting too long.

The interior lights have always seemed dim to me, and one of the windows goes up slow but the battery with the car off (obviously) reads 12.55 volts.

Ok now I have done the off warmer test I have read about here and I am getting…

8.8.8
. .E
E52
.7.0

I noticed a few things retrieving the codes. First off the oil, charge and brake lights stay when all the other ones go away. The brake light has always been on since I bought it. Second the 'service engine soon' light comes on as soon as it starts giving codes. Hopefully everyones does that?

The digital readout says there is 15 gallons of gas. I remember filling it too.

Oh – this may be crucial; the PCV valve (I think) popped out of the top of the engine and will hardly stay down.

Every time I’ve taken a car to a mechanic in this city I’ve been ripped off and they normally don’t fix the problem so I am coming to you guys. I now have 2 broken cars outside and no transportation. I’d be very appreciative of any advise you could offer. :worship:

Ok so I’m not mechanically inclined, but I thought I could check a few fuses without rendering my car completely worthless!!!

I just bought a very nice 1990 Deville. AC blower doesn’t work and front end bottoms out but it runs very strong. The radio stays on when I pull the key, but it goes off later on its own. Seems a bit fishy…

It stumbles on acceleration stalled a few times, but the real problem was when it started stalling out for no reason whatsoever, even when I was not touching the gas pedal - several times one day. The electricity stayed on, but the engine cut off out of the blue. It would always start right back up if I turned the key back to the off position first.

Then it over heated and I had to change a fuse. That fixed that. Probably not related.

So I figure with it stalling out why not check the other fuses? They were all fine. The radio cut out once or twice but came back on when I put the fuse back in its place.

Someone told me there were more fuses so I got the book, found another place (under the glove box) and checked those fuses. They were all fine, though some were sparky when I plugged them back in.

I decided to start the car when I was done to be sure everything worked. It seems whatever intermittent problem caused it to stall is now a permanent problem – the car will not start. It seems like something is not letting it run once it cranks up. It turns over, sounds like it started, and within half a second shuts back off. Exact same thing, no matter how many times you try it. :banghead:

The battery suddenly drained the next day but my friend charged it and the battery seems to be holding the electricity. Odd. Guy working at jiffy lube said it drained because it thought I was trying to steal it. I would think it would have drained the night I screwed it up though, not the next day.

The starting stuff sopunds decent, it does not seem to have any trouble at all turning over and starting, it just shuts right back down. Is there some code that needs reset somehow?

I did try leaving the battery disconnected for a while, then I tried touching the + and - wires that go to the bettery together for a few seconds. Same thing.

Before I bought the car I had to charge the battery to test-drive it but it ran fine. She said it had just been sitting too long.

The interior lights have always seemed dim to me, and one of the windows goes up slow but the battery with the car off (obviously) reads 12.55 volts.

Ok now I have done the off warmer test I have read about here and I am getting…

8.8.8
. .E
E52
.7.0

I noticed a few things retrieving the codes. First off the oil, charge and brake lights stay when all the other ones go away. The brake light has always been on since I bought it. Second the 'service engine soon' light comes on as soon as it starts giving codes. Hopefully everyones does that?

The digital readout says there is 15 gallons of gas. I remember filling it too.

Oh – this may be crucial; the PCV valve (I think) popped out of the top of the engine and will hardly stay down.

Every time I’ve taken a car to a mechanic in this city I’ve been ripped off and they normally don’t fix the problem so I am coming to you guys. I now have 2 broken cars outside and no transportation. I’d be very appreciative of any advise you could offer. :worship:


ok, the codes here suggest that nothing is wrong there. i would give her a tune-up and change out the ignition module. the module is under the distributor cap, should not be hard to find. change the pcv valve too. it may be poping out due to it being clogged. if your pcv valve is clogged, your car will not run right. the pcv valve will be located on the front valve cover. check the egr valve too. it is a large mushroom looking device on top of the intake manifold. take your fingers up under the egr and you will notice some openings there. see if you can press the valve from undernieth. ideally, it should move. if it does not, replace it. check ALL vaccume lines coming from the throttle body, if they are damaged, replace them. also, does your ignition key have a chip on it? if so, you may need to spray some electrical contact cleaner into the key cylinder. let it dry and see what happens. that should only apply if you have the PASS key chip. good luck and let us know if this works out. illuminaP. :cool:

Thanks for the reply. Yes the key has something on it the lady I bought it from said was a chip, someone else said was a magnet and I have read is a resistor. I’ll have to get some of that stuff and spray it in there. Do I use a Q-tip or just leave it alone?

Its the passkey, don't mess with it, the car won't start without it. Its a pellet resistor. Needs to make an electrical connection. Leave that to a certified mechanic.

I have suspected the key or its circuit. Just read the resistance, 1.466k ohms. Don't believe it can change can it? If its not staying connected for whatever reason, how hard is it to find the wires to short it out with a resistor as I have heard of some doing?

Here’s the good news (I think). I have noticed that the... let me get the book... ISC motor (Idle Speed Control) is making sound when you move the key forward (but not far enough to crank it) and also when you turn it off. Its a static sparky like sound but may be mechanical in origin. You can't quit hear it from the drivers seat, explaining why I never heard it before. This got me excited, thinking maybe there is hope. It only does it when the key is first turned forward and then again when it’s turned off. This has got to tell us something. Here is a photo of the ISC which sounds like its sparking...

http://www.coverup.us/graphics/photo/Cadillac/sparking.jpg

Naturally I beat it with a pair of pliers, not knowing what it was. After that the car seems to come a bit closer to staying on when you start it, which has got to be a good sign.

So while working on figuring that out I found rubber hoses unconnected going into and out of that round like plastic thing on top of everything and a hose or two elsewhere. I have suspected sabotage, I had it in for an AC repair and they held it a week so I called to tell them I was taking it back and they could call me when the part finally came in.

There is also a clicking sound coming from some part closer to the firewall and connected in some way to the ISC. It makes a relay like click at the same time the ISC makes its sparky sound. It’s a few small electric looking things mounted on a bracket that is not screwed into anything at all like someone had it out. heres is a photo of this unsecured and unknown clicking thing...

http://www.coverup.us/graphics/photo/Cadillac/clicking.jpg

I am going to test the ISC according to the book, trying not to fry anything, and see if it is the culprit. I see a lot of posts on here with mysterious no start problems, maybe I can get to the bottom of this one.

So to sum it up, I turn the key forward without turning it all the way to crank it and the part by the firewall clicks and the ISC motor sounds like either something’s spinning and rubbing or like something sparking. Then upon turning the key back off, the same thing happens.

http://www.coverup.us/graphics/photo/Cadillac/both.jpg

If anyone knows why these sounds are being made, if its normal, what it may be a symptom of (key?), what that part by the firewall is, or anything else PLEASE share your mind and thank you.

the ISC motor will make that sound, as it is adjusting for start-up/shut-down. as for your map sensor to be clicking, i just dont know. your codes suggested nothing as far as the map sensor is concerned, but may be worth looking into anyways. sometimes, my car seems to have an electrical problem that the ECM will not pick up on. and im sure mine is'nt the only case. also, spray the electrical contact cleaner into the key cylinder, let it dry for a few minutes, and see what happens. the spray will not hurt it, as the haynes manual suggests that as one fix for the passkey problem.

If there's something wrong with the PASS key it won't start at all.

I doubt its passkey. you wouldn't be able to crank if that was the case. Did you try holding the throttle open slightly while cranking? If whacking the ISC made it a little closer to running, maybe something along the lines of the TPS or the ISC itself are maladjusted. Check for codes again, E52 is PCM Memory reset, which came from disconnecting the battery. You might have a new one by now.

Ok well it’s cranking, then going ‘vroom!’ like it started but instantly goes back off. Does that really rule out the passkey? I was wondering what kind of anti-theft design would let someone sit there and almost steal the car all day.

If pushing down on the gas pedal as I turn the key is what you mean by holding the throttle open as I crank it then yea. How do you mean to hold the throttle open?

Today I decided maybe if I pulled fuses (like the radio that stays on when the key is out) one by one and try to start it after each one I may isolate the problem or at least rule out some things. Never started, so I guess maybe the radio is off the hook.

Also checked the battery, charged it again (it went from 12.55 V to 12.33 V overnight), tried to jump it from the side posts this time hoping in vain that there was some difference, pulled the terminals out of the battery and grinded them and polished them and made them nice and shiny. Tried to start it and nothing changed.

Could a dead cell in the battery cause it not to start even when it is being jumped by another running vehicle? When I was done today one window would not roll up until I hooked it up to another car again, and then it needed a bit of help. If the battery was the problem would it go as far as to start up and go ‘vroom’ to begin with?

I wanted to rule it out by having it tested but couldn’t get the battery out without extensions for the ratchet.

Oh forgot - the other day I was checking for voltage where fuses go, like pulling the fuse out and then seeing if there is power across the place it was plugged into. I think the book was saying there should never be voltage where any fuse is plugged in. Anyways I got half a volt where the 20 amp fuel pump fuse was plugged in (under the glove box). I am not sure whether that really means anything.

I think the crucial question is this – what does all of your ISC motors sound like when you turn your key on and off, from up close looking down on the engine? Mine sounds like its sparking or grinding teeth on a wheel, I can’t tell. Do they all do that or is it a sure sign its bad? Guy at the store told me it was probably bad since was making that noise and that it would cause stalling and keep it from starting but I don’t know if he knew what he was talking about.

I don’t care about the money to change it but it’s the risk. If I start pulling things out and messing with them, this perfectly good car will never run again. Plus my girlfriend chased me with a car part once so I don’t like to have them detached from the car on a whim.

Ok checking codes again... the codes have not changed. Can the car show a code when it will not run long enough to test anything?

Please someone listen to your ISC while someone else turns the key and tell me what it sounds like? :bouncy: Thanks you guys.

The pass key stuff won't let it start at all. You'll turn the key and nothing will happen. If it's something wrong with the battery like a bad cell usually it will start and work fine but just not stay charged.

Man, you got a lot of problems. I was going to suggest the relay switch for the AC in the Maxifuse block, but why can't you get it towed to a garage you trust? Or at least a reputable one.

I don't hear any clicking whatsoever when I turn my key on or off.

he said his map sensor is clicking, and his isc motor is grinding. the isc motor will adjust and make a little sound when you turn the key on, and when you shut the car down, but you should not hear it from the cab. the map sensor clicking is new to me too. i suggest that he just replace the map, because i really dont think it should be clicking like he describes. a faulty map sensor WILL keep the car from running too. so i would just replace it to be sure.

Ok well it’s cranking, then going ‘vroom!’ like it started but instantly goes back off. Does that really rule out the passkey? I was wondering what kind of anti-theft design would let someone sit there and almost steal the car all day.

If pushing down on the gas pedal as I turn the key is what you mean by holding the throttle open as I crank it then yea. How do you mean to hold the throttle open?

Today I decided maybe if I pulled fuses (like the radio that stays on when the key is out) one by one and try to start it after each one I may isolate the problem or at least rule out some things. Never started, so I guess maybe the radio is off the hook.

Also checked the battery, charged it again (it went from 12.55 V to 12.33 V overnight), tried to jump it from the side posts this time hoping in vain that there was some difference, pulled the terminals out of the battery and grinded them and polished them and made them nice and shiny. Tried to start it and nothing changed.

Could a dead cell in the battery cause it not to start even when it is being jumped by another running vehicle? When I was done today one window would not roll up until I hooked it up to another car again, and then it needed a bit of help. If the battery was the problem would it go as far as to start up and go ‘vroom’ to begin with?

I wanted to rule it out by having it tested but couldn’t get the battery out without extensions for the ratchet.

Oh forgot - the other day I was checking for voltage where fuses go, like pulling the fuse out and then seeing if there is power across the place it was plugged into. I think the book was saying there should never be voltage where any fuse is plugged in. Anyways I got half a volt where the 20 amp fuel pump fuse was plugged in (under the glove box). I am not sure whether that really means anything.

I think the crucial question is this – what does all of your ISC motors sound like when you turn your key on and off, from up close looking down on the engine? Mine sounds like its sparking or grinding teeth on a wheel, I can’t tell. Do they all do that or is it a sure sign its bad? Guy at the store told me it was probably bad since was making that noise and that it would cause stalling and keep it from starting but I don’t know if he knew what he was talking about.

I don’t care about the money to change it but it’s the risk. If I start pulling things out and messing with them, this perfectly good car will never run again. Plus my girlfriend chased me with a car part once so I don’t like to have them detached from the car on a whim.

Ok checking codes again... the codes have not changed. Can the car show a code when it will not run long enough to test anything?

Please someone listen to your ISC while someone else turns the key and tell me what it sounds like? :bouncy: Thanks you guys.

my bad on the passkey...no it will not even crank if it is activated. you know what? if you are that unsure about the ISC motor, just replace it, along with the MAP sensor too. the ISC motor will make some adjustment sounds upon turn on and shut down, but if those noises seem that strange or unnatural to you, just replace it. i do know that i have NEVER heard of the MAP sensor clicking before, so replace that too. if that does not work, buy a ford.
:D

.

Could I have blown the map sensor checking the fuses with the car on? I have a mechanic coming over in a bit tonight, maybe I’ll get it solved then. Whenever I do get it figured out I’ll be sure to post it so one more of the apparently many problems that can cause these cars to no start will be known.

Going to have to look into the AC relay, is that in the block under the dash? Are all those relays the same so that I can swap them out to see if that’s the problem?

As far as why I am not taking it to a reputable mechanic, I live in Jacksonville Florida and for the record there is not an honest business in the city nor anywhere around it. :hide: I guess when the other businesses are robbing the customers’ blind and you are working in a competitive marketplace, you have to follow suit. I’ve been ripped off so many times and gone home he find that the work was never even done. Taking the car in as an absolutely last resort, right after beating it senseless (get it?) with a baseball bat and perhaps even hitting it with the LTD a few times for good measure. Why not, that ones already wrecked… :annoyed:

P. S. Anyone want to buy a 1990 Cadillac Deville, extremely good condition, won’t start? Anyone?

[QUOTE=thirstyfoxxx]
P. S. Anyone want to buy a 1990 Cadillac Deville, extremely good condition, won’t start? Anyone?[/QUOT

ill buy it, or i can give you a ford for trade...
:D

P. S. Anyone want to buy a 1990 Cadillac Deville, extremely good condition, won’t start? Anyone?


ill buy it, or i can trade you a ford fot it... :D

oops... posted twice...these beers are starting to kick in :drinker

Going to have to look into the AC relay, is that in the block under the dash? Are all those relays the same so that I can swap them out to see if that’s the problem?


I just went through this with my car. Not the fuses under the driver's side dash, I mean on the pass. side firewall in the engine, that big plastic panal labelled "Maxifuse/Relay Center. There is a 15 amp maxifuse that controlls the AC compressor. You could check that, plus, there should be some extra fuses in the relay center that are spares. I'm afraid I didn't see exactly which fuse it was when I got it fixed. I was expecting to spend $400 on freon and a retro fit kit, and was glad this was the problem. The fan blew, just not cool air.

Wait, what year is your car again?? OK, it should be the same maxi panal with the 4.5, or similar.

With the car starting and not staying running, I would check the fuel pressure. Turn the key to the on position and you should be able to hear the fuel pump prime for a second or two. Also you can put a fuel pressure gauge on the line and cycle the key off and on. If there is pressure, leave the gauge on and see if the injectors are bleeding down.

you might want to do a test on the alternator. Loss of spark and eventual loss of battery power says alternator to me. Of course loss of spark will cause stalling.

Good Luck

BW

Put some gas in a squirt bottle with a small nozzle on it. While someone is cranking the engine squirt it down the throttle body. If it starts, your problem is fuel starvation. Look at the fuel pump fuse, relay, plugged fuel filter and lastly the fuel pressure to see if the pump is working and putting out enough pressure. If all this checks out, then start looking at electrical.

Son of a @%#$!

I was thinking. A car needs 2 main things to stay running once started, gas and electricity. So in order to cut the riddle in half I poured a cup of gas down 2 holes I found under that plastic stuff on top and sure enough – IT’S RUNNING!!! :D

Now unless I’m wrong that rules out the possibility that its not getting spark. Seems it was not getting gas. Question is why.

Needless to say I’ve beat the living shit out of that ISC motor and taken the screw all the way out so that I could beat it independently. It does not run right, but it runs.

I have adjusted the ISC screw back and forth enough to ascertain that it has a major impact on how it runs and what it sounds like but it seams like no matter where I put it, when I accelerate moderately fast it wants to stall. It was doing that before, but not nearly as bad.

MAP sensor still clicks and you guys have said that seems unusual. I have read it’s got to do with the air/fuel mixture.

The car is running weak but has a VERY deep bass sound, it did not before. Something is also rattling, sounding as if something were in the exhaust up front somewhere. Weird.

I think the people I took it to for A/C work sabotaged the car when a week later I took it back because they had done nothing. When I looked at the engine (after it stopped running) there were hoses disconnected, PCV valve sticking out, God knows what else. I suspected that before it stopped running which is why I had the oil changed and filled the gas tank to dilute anything they may have poured in it. :annoyed:

The ONLY think I have changed is the ISC screw.

Can improper ISC adjustment cause the deep bass sound or the rattling in the exhaust? Why is the car continuing to run just because I gave it 1 drink? Is it relatively easy to properly adjust the ISC and whatever other things I need to adjust to make it run right (I have the manual), or is it to complicated? Could the problem be the (still clicking) MAP sensor? Could the DEEP bass sound (almost like the car is about to blow up) be because the exhaust is partially plugged by something, or just a matter of proper adjustment of things like the ISC? :hmm:

On top of this, and hopefully this will help, it’s somehow coming up with new error codes. If the ISC motor is saying it’s been beaten, I have an alibi… :shhh:

Here are the ALL NEW error codes…

E41
E58

My friend says she can hear the gas pump when I turn the key and I am told that means it is working, but does that alone rule the gas pump out? Checking the pressure as per suggestion seems like a good idea. I also picked up a fuel filter and am going to put that on to see what happens.

I feel relived that its running, but before it stopped (and I beat the ISC and messed with the screw) it was MUCH more powerful. It would hesitate if I floored it but then a moment later take off like a rocket. Now it feels like your lucky its running, like it is about to stall the moment you hit the gas, and there’s an almost rhythmic sound to the exhaust, its not constant. :crying2:

Ok I’m going to go take out the PCV and see how it runs without it and then disconnect the battery overnight to reset the codes (right?) and then see if they come back when I drive it tomorrow.

I can’t rule out an electrical problem because maybe the fuel pump is not getting enough power to run right or something, right? At least I can get groceries now – and just in the nick of time…

The noisy rattling exhaust got me thinking about a bad cat. Hit it with a rubber mallet. If it rattles then the cat is bad. Maybe plugging the exhaust flow.
The ISC sounds like there may be some self inflicted wounds there. There is a proceedure in the manual to adjust it I believe.
The PCV is just a simple check valve. Take it out and shake it. If it rattles, it is good.
When you turn the key on, you should be able to hear the fuel pump run but that does not guarantee that it is putting out enough pressure. You need to put a fuel pressure guage on the schreader valve on the fuel line and watch the pressure as you brake torque the engine. It should stay relatively steady. If it drops way off, then the pump is headed south.

Son of a @%#$!

I was thinking. A car needs 2 main things to stay running once started, gas and electricity. So in order to cut the riddle in half I poured a cup of gas down 2 holes I found under that plastic stuff on top and sure enough – IT’S RUNNING!!! :D

Now unless I’m wrong that rules out the possibility that its not getting spark. Seems it was not getting gas. Question is why.

Needless to say I’ve beat the living shit out of that ISC motor and taken the screw all the way out so that I could beat it independently. It does not run right, but it runs.

I have adjusted the ISC screw back and forth enough to ascertain that it has a major impact on how it runs and what it sounds like but it seams like no matter where I put it, when I accelerate moderately fast it wants to stall. It was doing that before, but not nearly as bad.

MAP sensor still clicks and you guys have said that seems unusual. I have read it’s got to do with the air/fuel mixture.

The car is running weak but has a VERY deep bass sound, it did not before. Something is also rattling, sounding as if something were in the exhaust up front somewhere. Weird.

I think the people I took it to for A/C work sabotaged the car when a week later I took it back because they had done nothing. When I looked at the engine (after it stopped running) there were hoses disconnected, PCV valve sticking out, God knows what else. I suspected that before it stopped running which is why I had the oil changed and filled the gas tank to dilute anything they may have poured in it. :annoyed:

The ONLY think I have changed is the ISC screw.

Can improper ISC adjustment cause the deep bass sound or the rattling in the exhaust? Why is the car continuing to run just because I gave it 1 drink? Is it relatively easy to properly adjust the ISC and whatever other things I need to adjust to make it run right (I have the manual), or is it to complicated? Could the problem be the (still clicking) MAP sensor? Could the DEEP bass sound (almost like the car is about to blow up) be because the exhaust is partially plugged by something, or just a matter of proper adjustment of things like the ISC? :hmm:

On top of this, and hopefully this will help, it’s somehow coming up with new error codes. If the ISC motor is saying it’s been beaten, I have an alibi… :shhh:

Here are the ALL NEW error codes…

E41
E58

My friend says she can hear the gas pump when I turn the key and I am told that means it is working, but does that alone rule the gas pump out? Checking the pressure as per suggestion seems like a good idea. I also picked up a fuel filter and am going to put that on to see what happens.

I feel relived that its running, but before it stopped (and I beat the ISC and messed with the screw) it was MUCH more powerful. It would hesitate if I floored it but then a moment later take off like a rocket. Now it feels like your lucky its running, like it is about to stall the moment you hit the gas, and there’s an almost rhythmic sound to the exhaust, its not constant. :crying2:

Ok I’m going to go take out the PCV and see how it runs without it and then disconnect the battery overnight to reset the codes (right?) and then see if they come back when I drive it tomorrow.

I can’t rule out an electrical problem because maybe the fuel pump is not getting enough power to run right or something, right? At least I can get groceries now – and just in the nick of time…



hmmm...looks like i was close to being right about the pass-key thing.
e58: pass-key fuel enable circuit fault.
e41: cam position sensor fault.

look at some of my earlier posts in this thread and see what i said. look at the wiring under the distributor cap and make sure it is not damaged and whatnot. if that does not work, you may have to replace the cam sensor out. should not be too hard though. again, clean the key cylinder with electrical contact cleaner and the key too, may need a new key cut. you are not showing any fuel pump codes, but that does not mean that there is no problem there. like ranger said, check the fuel pressure and see what you get. you may have a bad regulator, faulty pump, or just a really dirty filter. check the pressure and tell us. and yes, your cat. converter may be going bad too. rattle sounds and bass sounds from under the car will indicate that.

Ok looks like I left the hoses going to the big plastic thing disconnected when I fed it gas. Plugged it back in and the deep exhaust sound seems not to be as bad. I suck at this.

Missed your post Ranger as it was not on the first page but now I see that you are likely right on the money in suspecting fuel starvation. I keep having to pour more gas down its throat manually, though it runs once started.

Yep the cat is VERY rusty. Also there is a metal tube coming out of the exhaust pipe and heading towards the engine – but it’s cut short of its destination. The car is sitting so low (does this thing have air shocks or something?) that I cannot hit the cat without jacking it up. Have to wait for now.

Since the car keeps running once started, the fuel pump fuse and relay must be ok right?

Will check PCV and change the fuel filter.

Will also check wiring on distributor and consider the cam sensor, whatever that is.

Will clean out pass key cylinder and key.

Will replace entire exhaust system? Maybe…

Also there is a metal tube coming out of the exhaust pipe and heading towards the engine – but it’s cut short of its destination. The car is sitting so low (does this thing have air shocks or something?)
I suspect that tube may be the EGR feed. You do have air shocks for the rear level control but they are pressurized by an electronic compressor, not exhaust gas.

Could it be a torque converter?

Went to change the fuel filter, the car would not run up onto the ramps - not even in first gear with it floored! I had to get a 10 foot running start to get on a 1 foot tall ramp to get under the car. :confused:

Upon hearing that the guy at the store said it must be the torque converter and seemed pretty sure. Everything worked perfect until I checked all the fuses with the radio on and messed with the ISC, the odds of the torque converter (whatever that is) dying while it was sitting in park seem slim to me. :suspect:

Is there ANY thing else that could explain it not going up onto the ramp? It sounds like its getting the gas.

Is there something that may have been done to the car to cause this? Something loosened, something put into the gas, oil or transmission?

PCV valve rattles and thusly must be ok.

Could the rattling under the car be teeth from a geer that broke off or something? Could it be that someone put something in the transmission to cause it to fail?

Beat on the cat and I think I heard some rattling but not sure if its the same thing.

Looked at distributer wiring and not seeing anything worn, melted or disconnected.

The cars exhaust changes each time I adjust the ISC screw. Right now I have the classic sputtering sound, it was backfiring at another screw setting. Another clue is that I have to accelerate VERY slow, if I give it too much gass the engine (or transmission or something) kicks back really hard, like I'm hurting it. There were NO transmission problems before, it just stalled occasionially.

MPG rarely goes into the double digits and is regurally 3 as I am trying to get it up to 30 MPH on a road where the speed limit is 45. Going to get a ticket sooner or later, shouldnt be driving it I think, it almost seems to be getting louder everyday.

About the passkey, I don't understand how could that cause these problems? What is the cam sensor and what does it do? It sounds like a good thing to mess with. Do those error codes really mean somethings wrong in those areas? :hmm:

So do you think it could be the torque converter? Can I replace it myself? Could anything have been done to the car causing these symptoms? Could this lack of power be explained by a clogged exhaust or bad cat converter?

Thanks so much for helping me with this guys.

Check the fuses over under the passenger side corner of the dash. Make sure that you put them back in the right places. There is one fuse over there that causes the trans not to shift properly.

Steve B.

I can't solve the problem but I would say to stop worrying about the radio staying on after the engine is turned off and the key removed. I have had two older cadillac's and that is normal. I believe if you open the drivers side door the radio will go off immediately. At any rate focus on the problem and not the radio.

Do not check fuses with the engine running. I would shut the engine off and recheck the fuses to make sure all of them are good first. I believe the fuse cover has the proper amp ratings for each fuse and will indicate which ones are spares. Wal-Mart has more for about $1.50 if you need them.

The ISC motor on my '89 makes a thumping sound. It pushes the throttle which also makes the gas pedal bounce. This is because it is not adjusted properly. I am not sure about a sparking or grinding noise. The ISC motor is not very expensive and is easy to replace. Be sure and measure the distance the adjustment screw adjustment sticks out from the ISC motor on the old one and set the new one for the same distance before starting the car. The suggestion about pushing the throttle can be tested by getting a friend to hold the throttle up where the ISC motor touches it. Do not push the gas pedal because that will make the car run rough if you do manage to start it. The computer is supposed to add gas as you start it without touching the gas pedal.

Do make sure the vacuum hoses are connected properly and do not leak as well as the PCV valve remaining in place. The gasket the PCV valve plugs into can be replaced if it is too worn to hold the PCV valve in place but try to puch the valve in securely before spending money.

Sounds like you may have more than one problem and possibly chasing rabbits. Even with a bad alternator the car would start using battery power. The dash light would indicate an alternator problem after it starts. Let us know what you find. We might have the problem next.

The windows go up slowly on my '89 and went up faster on my '91. Wasn't a problem.

Could it be a torque converter?

Went to change the fuel filter, the car would not run up onto the ramps - not even in first gear with it floored! I had to get a 10 foot running start to get on a 1 foot tall ramp to get under the car. :confused:

Upon hearing that the guy at the store said it must be the torque converter and seemed pretty sure. Everything worked perfect until I checked all the fuses with the radio on and messed with the ISC, the odds of the torque converter (whatever that is) dying while it was sitting in park seem slim to me. :suspect:

Is there ANY thing else that could explain it not going up onto the ramp? It sounds like its getting the gas.

Is there something that may have been done to the car to cause this? Something loosened, something put into the gas, oil or transmission?

PCV valve rattles and thusly must be ok.

Could the rattling under the car be teeth from a geer that broke off or something? Could it be that someone put something in the transmission to cause it to fail?

Beat on the cat and I think I heard some rattling but not sure if its the same thing.

Looked at distributer wiring and not seeing anything worn, melted or disconnected.

The cars exhaust changes each time I adjust the ISC screw. Right now I have the classic sputtering sound, it was backfiring at another screw setting. Another clue is that I have to accelerate VERY slow, if I give it too much gass the engine (or transmission or something) kicks back really hard, like I'm hurting it. There were NO transmission problems before, it just stalled occasionially.

MPG rarely goes into the double digits and is regurally 3 as I am trying to get it up to 30 MPH on a road where the speed limit is 45. Going to get a ticket sooner or later, shouldnt be driving it I think, it almost seems to be getting louder everyday.

About the passkey, I don't understand how could that cause these problems? What is the cam sensor and what does it do? It sounds like a good thing to mess with. Do those error codes really mean somethings wrong in those areas? :hmm:

So do you think it could be the torque converter? Can I replace it myself? Could anything have been done to the car causing these symptoms? Could this lack of power be explained by a clogged exhaust or bad cat converter?

Thanks so much for helping me with this guys.


sell the car, you dont need our help, you need a preist. jk :D . no, i would not think the passkey would be causing these sorts of problems, however, clean the key cylinder anyways. your torque converter can rattle if it is loose, but if the car accelerated fine just before these problems, then i would think that is not the problem. your earlier codes suggested the cam sensor may be faulty. replace it. but as for not having power for going onto a shop ramp, i simply dont know. first thought is a VERY clogged cat. as far as that is concerned. pull the cat. off and replace it if you feel that strongly about it. i could suggest another cat. converter fix, but i dont want to get into any trouble here :hide: . also, make sure your tranny is filled with fluid. while the car is running, get it into normal temp (215 or so), pull the tranny dip stick and make sure it is full in the range meter area. if none of these things work, i will be glad to take the car of your hands... :D :D

GOT IT!!! :D

Here is a history of the events that have unfolded:

The car (1990 Deville) was occasionally stalling while driving down the road, several times one day.

I decided to check all the fuses. I pulled them out one by one and saw that they were all fine.

The car would not start back up, ever.

I beat on various parts of the car, but no luck.

More diagnostics and work to find the problem failed, the details are irrelevant.

My girlfriend checked the fuses ‘to make sure you put them back right’.

Finally I poured gas down the throttle body and found that the car started. I was happy.

Upon driving the car I found that it ran like crap, made rattling sounds, was VERY weak and would kick back if I tried to accelerate.

More diagnostics and work to find the problem failed, the details are irrelevant.

Finally, knowing that everything went wrong when I simply checked the fuses and on the advice of members of the forum, I checked them again tonight and found one of the two 10-amp injector fuses just flat out missing.

Immediately I threw a fuse in there and the car is running just as strong as before any of this ever started. Once again, I am happy.

As I have said the car did not have enough power to run up onto a 1-foot tall ramp so that I could get under the car. This loss of power was entirely due to a missing 10-amp injector fuse, which by my guess means only half of the injectors have been injecting.

Please note that if you have similar symptoms and see both fuses present, you still need to pull them out and verify that they are still good – not blown.

This solves the biggest problem which is that the car would not run right, had no power, ran weak, ran slow, made noise, exhaust noise, engine noise, bad idle, wouldn’t go uphill and so on – for the search engine.

There were supposed to be two 10-amp injector fuses in the main fuse box but upon rechecking I found one missing. During the time I was trying to get the car restarted my girlfriend messed with the fuse box. By the time I poured fuel down the throttle body several days later in a desperate effort to get the car running, the damage had been done. The car ran like crap and I concluded that between it not starting and it running so weak once I got it started, I had some sort of fuel problem.

While the car has stalled on occasion, I have found that there is certain consistency in the fact that EVERY TIME I disconnect the battery I have to feed the throttle body. I have essentially concluded (rightly I hope) that it is normal for it not to start after having the battery disconnected, or perhaps more specifically when the fuel pump looses battery power.

Getting a few codes (E32 E41 E58 E99), but I have not readjusted the ISC. After doing that and disconnecting the battery long enough to reset the codes I will see what comes up.

The original problem was occasional stalling and a member has told me that one of the codes indicated a problem with the pass key system so that may be the only problem that existed, until I tried to fix it.

When I pulled out and checked every fuse both on the drivers and passenger’s side, I disconnected the fuel pumps power. That’s EXACTLY when the car decided it would not start again.

I imagine that it will still stall out as I am driving it because I have not fixed that problem (that I know of). First time it does I will be reading this entire post to review the tips all of you have provided.

Until then I think I’ll wait and see rather then keep messing with the car until I break it again. Moral of the story – NEVER LET YOUR GIRLFRIEND CHECK YOUR FUSES!!!

Thanks all, and I’ll let you know if it keeps stalling while running and I figure that one out.

hmm...well im glad to hear you solved the no start problem. remember i said to replace to cam sensor? do so. it will help. also make sure the wiring is not pinched under the cap anywhere. do this stuff only if it still stalls out. also, just spray electrical contact cleaner into your key cylinder if the pass-key acts up and does'nt allow you to start the car. and yes, never let your girlfriend work on the car again. i cannot stress that enough. also, when your car had no power, did it sound like a lawnmower? that would have been the tell tail sign that the fuel injection is not functioning properly.

BTW, the code e032 is the map sensor, the thing you said was clicking. replace it too.

yes illumina, I could moderatly give it gas, but with normal acceleration it had a lawnmower sound to it. any more then normal acceleration and it would kick back.

I'm going to clear the codes and then see what comes up. I don't see how the original problem could be fixed and driving it today it is running at 52 MPH without my foot on the gas.

hasnt stalled though but I have not had it out much. do you think when it was rattling a lot i was doing damage to the engine or something?

you think resetting the codes will reset the idol or should i go through the book and try to set ISC and then reset the codes?

I am worried about doing the cams sensor and hoping the code goes away when I reset because I will mess things up if I have to do it, but could that sensor cause rattling?

well I'll let you know what happens and thanks.

I hope you figure it out my 92 seville is doing the same thing varoom for about 2 to 10 seconds. And sometimes it will run till it decides to quite maybe for an hour. If it trys at all, At the moment it won't start at all I disabled the injectors yesterday and dumped a little gas in the throtle body and it ran for a minute or so guess it has spark so now i'm looking at injector timing and operation my fuel pressure was 35lbs but I didnt leave the gaudge on for very long to check bleed down I cant do diagnostics cause my climate control and fuel displays are not working. I changed my ecu and bcu but no difference

Dont know if this will help but I haved a 95 escort that would do the same thing. Wouldnt set off any codes and ended up being the coolant temp sensor. It would do it whenever especially at a stop light.

yes illumina, I could moderatly give it gas, but with normal acceleration it had a lawnmower sound to it. any more then normal acceleration and it would kick back.

I'm going to clear the codes and then see what comes up. I don't see how the original problem could be fixed and driving it today it is running at 52 MPH without my foot on the gas.

hasnt stalled though but I have not had it out much. do you think when it was rattling a lot i was doing damage to the engine or something?

you think resetting the codes will reset the idol or should i go through the book and try to set ISC and then reset the codes?

I am worried about doing the cams sensor and hoping the code goes away when I reset because I will mess things up if I have to do it, but could that sensor cause rattling?

well I'll let you know what happens and thanks.


sounds like your car needs some good holy water :D if you did not replace the ISC motor, then you should not have to reset the idle. as you said earlier, run her for a while and see what codes you get. but yes, clear the codes before any prolonged trip. that way, you will ba able to find out if there are any problems left. the rattling concerns me. what kind of rattle do you hear? is it more of an engine knock or tick that is syncronized? or is it a rattle like a dryer with some loose change in it? let me know, and ill try and help you there. good luck, illuminaP. :cool:

more good news, I reset the codes and the idle is much better. it also lost the map sensor code and I only have the e41 and e58 now.

2 codes and some rattling is all I have to deal with now.

going to finally get some of that spray and spray the ignition switch but I suspect its something in the steering column disconnected because the brights will not come on either and I saw them flicker on once when I tried so I know everything is good with them ewxcept something in the steering column. I am wondering you say I may need a new key cut, how can a resistor go bad? how hard is it to get apart a put together the steering?

strangly the car has not stalled since i got it running again. there may be some hesitation taking off but I think that is because the car has dropped into some safe mode - perhaps because its not getting signals from the cam sensor?

the rattling sounds to me like a loose sheet of metal vibrating against the bottom of the car, but when under there I could not find the source. I cant really even tell whether its the exhaust or the engine but the sound is coming from under the front portion of the car (like under the front seats), reverbating throughout the exhaust, and is a light loose metalic clanging sound and certianly does not sound like any engine knock I have ever heard of. I first suspected something metal interacting with the drive shaft but upon staring at where the drive shaft is on my other cars for a while I realized it was front wheel drive. If metal can fly around inside the cat and make a sound like that then I would suspect that but the car is running WAY too good and smooth for the cat to be just plain clogged.

I don't know what it could be...

The metal your hearing is probably the heat shield between the floor pan and the cat. check that out and should be it.

thirstyfoxxx I dont know how everyone else feels about this but all the engine cranking you have been doing without it starting it might be a good idea to change the oil again you may have dumped some gas into the oil.