: Hi, Set-up to beat 11.7??



SILVER-V
12-05-09, 07:10 PM
Hi everyone,

I've always been a BMW/Mercedes driver and I was looking at a new car to get, my son was the one that actually pushed me to the 2009 CTS-V, when I saw it I fell in love and when i drove it I fell in love again;), the car is amazing and It, one of the best cars I've owned in my life.

In short, my sons and I go to the track very often and have lots of fun together, my oldest son has an Evolution IX with some upgrades and he is running low 11.7's on street tires and 93 and he beats me every time.:D What mods should I do in order to compete with him?

I want something simple and easy to remove in case something were to happen and I'd have to take it in to the dealer, thanks for your help.:thumbsup:

cbloveday
12-05-09, 08:43 PM
If you do a tune and lower pulley you should be spanking your son proper. :)

Contact wait4me on this forum and he'll explain everything you need and also address the dealer concern too.

You can refer to this thread to see some timeslips. http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/

SILVER-V
12-05-09, 09:20 PM
Thanks for the response. Sorry for all the questions, I had an Evo as well but sold it now that i got the V, I'm just trying to learn a bit more about it.

The link just takes me to the main page btw.

So do you think a pulley and a tune could get me there? My car runs around high 12.5's on the first pass, after that it gets really hot from the Florida weather and the times start going up.

cbloveday
12-06-09, 08:28 AM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/184782-made-one-last-trip-dragstrip-before.html

Sorry try this link. He is running only a pulley, tune and CAI mod.

I did the Lingenfelter SC pulley upgrade with tune and modified airbox. Installed K&N filter 33-2411 and got 536 rwhp. Never tracked the car but dynoed with GNXS and our numbers were very close! He did the lower pulley from wait4meperformance, tune, and CAI.

CIWS
12-06-09, 08:47 AM
How about in the 10.32 range ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm5d1rIaHyA

SILVER-V
12-06-09, 05:21 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/184782-made-one-last-trip-dragstrip-before.html

Sorry try this link. He is running only a pulley, tune and CAI mod.

I did the Lingenfelter SC pulley upgrade with tune and modified airbox. Installed K&N filter 33-2411 and got 536 rwhp. Never tracked the car but dynoed with GNXS and our numbers were very close! He did the lower pulley from wait4meperformance, tune, and CAI.

That is some great info, thanks. The guy in the link is using launch control which im sure helps a lot in the start, Its really hard to get this car off the line but if there is a possibility of getting the launch control I think it will be ok. I think my son will be in for a surprise really soon:shhh: haha.

So what I need is:
9.5" pulley
W4M Air intake
W4M Tune, (hopefully with launch control)

Wow I love that you can put three mods on this car and its already in the 11's, phenomenal car I still can't believe it:worship:

The 9.5" pulley is the crank pulley right? Why not change the supercharger pulley, which one is better?

SILVER-V
12-06-09, 05:23 PM
How about in the 10.32 range ?

YouTube- Vette Doctors World's Fastest 2009 Cadillac CTS-V 10.32@136 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm5d1rIaHyA)

That's insane, I wish I could make it that fast but my wife drives the car as well so she probably wont let me put Nitrous on this car:D

concorso
12-06-09, 05:37 PM
Have you run him from a slow roll? What about a 50 roll? What kinda mph is he trapping?

Gary Wells
12-06-09, 06:07 PM
The general consensus of the forum is that of changing the crank pulley. There have been far more crank pulleys changed than supercharger snout pulleys changed.

SILVER-V
12-06-09, 06:43 PM
@concorso - I've had friends die in street races so I don't really do that and I want to set and example for him to not do it either. He traps 120-121mph on just pump gas and that's consistently.

@gary - Is the reason because its easier to change it or because it's more beneficial?

Thanks

Gary Wells
12-06-09, 06:54 PM
I'm a nubie here, but I believe that both are root causes, and probably cost per RWHP increase also. The shops that do the supercharger snout pulley generally also want to do the snout polish also. Also, being a nube here, I hate to say this, but I think that you might need a little more than a airbox, tune, & 9.5, but I could be wrong. maybe headers? Find out what his RWHP to car weight is, then figure out how much RWHP per pound you need to be competitive?
Jesse can tell exactly how much you need to do. HTH, only my opinion, too, and I could be dead wrong.

SILVER-V
12-06-09, 07:06 PM
I'm a nubie here, but I believe that both are root causes, and probably cost per RWHP increase also. The shops that do the supercharger snout pulley generally also want to do the snout polish also. Also, being a nube here, I hate to say this, but I think that you might need a little more than a airbox, tune, & 9.5, but I could be wrong. maybe headers? Find out what his RWHP to car weight is, then figure out how much RWHP per pound you need to be competitive?
Jesse can tell exactly how much you need to do. HTH, only my opinion, too, and I could be dead wrong.

I see you point, his car weighs 3300 and has 450whp while mine weighs 4200 and could possibly have 560whp with the three mods. He still has a better power to weight ratio and he has AWD with launch control, but I have quicker shifting thanks to the auto transmission. if I can duplicate the time slips of the link, I think the race will be really close, the issue is if I can get launch control or not.

Ross L
12-06-09, 07:09 PM
IMO a intake, pully swap(12-14 psi) and a tune should get you 120mph or so in the quarter(all based on what I've read here and there). What that evo has the ability to do is 60ft like crazy(if he wants too) with the awd. Soooo, you'll probably need more power(like Gary mentioned with the headers)or,,,, slicks and a good launch:thumbsup:
Ross

cbloveday
12-06-09, 07:13 PM
Guys,

All the gnxs has is the 9.5, tune and airbox. His thread shows the slips.

I have not tracked my car, so do not know how much of it is driver. I do know gnxs has been going to the strip regularly with his SVT Cobra, which is fast. He definately knows what he is doing. That being said,

I personally went with the Lingenfelter Super Charger Pulley upgrade. I had the dealership pull the parts and ship them to Lingenfelter who installed the 2.55 pulley on the SC, ported and polished the SC snout, modified my airbox,
and reprogramed my ECU. LPE shipped it back and dealership installed it.
I was given a loaner for a week, which is all it took.

I did this for a reason as It was all done through the mail. My dealership was great about it.

I think the reason the 9.5 pulley swap is desirable is because it is easily returned to stock. Dealership will take a snapshot of the ECM parameters for major drivetrain warranty request, as GM mandates it. GM will charge back the dealership if they find a flash has been done.

I am comfortable with the lingenfelter engineering. As I stated my car and gnxs put up approximatley the same numbers. We did the same dyno the same night, one after the other. Here is my dyno pulls:



http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/deansSTD.jpg


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/deansuncorrected.jpg

SILVER-V
12-06-09, 07:27 PM
@Ross - Thats good to hear about the MPH. When he runs 11.7's he doesn't even have that great a 60' it was like 1.80, so if we really get down to it I might need a bit more HP to keep up if he starts doing low 1.7s', unless I can get the tuner to put a launch control in the car I don't see how i can have a chance without slicks.

@cbloveday - Seems like you have a great set-up there man, looks really strong. Thanks for the info on the pulley and the dealer, how does the pulley look btw? is it the same color as the stock one just 1" bigger? or is it much different?

Gary Wells
12-06-09, 07:36 PM
Curtis:
Are both of those dyno charts your car?

SILVER-V
12-06-09, 07:39 PM
They both seem to be his car, the first one is probably more boost than the second one seeing as there is more HP but the torque drops lower because of the higher spike.

Ross L
12-06-09, 07:40 PM
If he went 11.7 with a 1.8 60 ft, a 1.7 60 ft with all else being equal will get him a 11.5 ish at the same mph. IMO, launch control (which *limits* hp to whatever your tires can hold) won't be enough unless you have sticky tires:). Now if he really beats on it and goes 1.6 60 ft(which is easily possible) now your dealing with a 11.3's:eek: IMO, do the mods you've mentioned and get some *good* tires! Good luck.

SILVER-V
12-06-09, 07:51 PM
Thanks Ross I'll do that and see what happens. I have to convince him to stay on pump gas though, his race map runs 11.0's with an average 60' foot:crying: but he's only used it once since he's still on the stock motor and afraid something might go out off the block:tisk:

mpouls1
12-06-09, 08:03 PM
I love track talk. This car is 3/4 launch and 1/4 no brainer.

If you can launch on a good day you can easily run low 12's...even an 11.99@118 stock motor and tires in the mid west...ugh. :hide:

I'm sure once you figure how not to spin the tires it will be good race with gnxs setup. Have fun. This car is a rush. Get the nav/dvd hack and watch a movie while you race down the track with an evo in your rear view.

SILVER-V
12-06-09, 08:09 PM
I love track talk. This car is 3/4 launch and 1/4 no brainer.

If you can launch on a good day you can easily run low 12's...even an 11.99@118 stock motor and tires in the mid west...ugh. :hide:

I'm sure once you figure how not to spin the tires it will be good race with gnxs setup. Have fun. This car is a rush. Get the nav/dvd hack and watch a movie while you race down the track with an evo in your rear view.

Haha that's so true.

What do you guys recommend for tire pressure??

What should I watch though? The movie or the Evo in the rear view?:histeric:

Gary Wells
12-06-09, 08:22 PM
They both seem to be his car, the first one is probably more boost than the second one seeing as there is more HP but the torque drops lower because of the higher spike.
The reason that I was questioning whether they were both for his car is that one is using a standard correction factor (probably SAE method) and the other one was computed and / or charted without being corrected.

richeic77
12-06-09, 08:22 PM
Oh. The EVO for sure. Or you can place some Rice and the Furious in case he get's in front or beside you. That way you'll see an EVO on the NAV either way.

mpouls1
12-06-09, 08:24 PM
What do you guys recommend for tire pressure??

I think most guys are running 24psi if I remember correctly reading older posts. I run mine at 28psi. I'm a chicken though...

SILVER-V
12-06-09, 08:26 PM
The reason that I was questioning whether they were both for his car is that one is using a standard correction factor (probably SAE method) and the other one was computed and / or charted without being corrected.

Oh yea I see that now.

@reicheic77 - LOL but you'd be surprised how much that little ricer pulls;)

@mpouls1 - Thanks Ill try different tire pressures and go from there, I've always ran at the stock tire pressure, one time my tire pressure was lower and I got an email from GM or someone that I should fill up my tires:osnap:

Vrocks
12-06-09, 09:07 PM
Wait4me also offers a head and cam package. A mild cam, cai, and exhaust on top of a 9" pulley. Wait4me said it should be good for around 575 at the wheels. From there, you could go to the 9.5 and I think that's about it without beefing up the fuel system.

cbloveday
12-06-09, 09:34 PM
Curtis:
Are both of those dyno charts your car?

Sorry Gary, I was watching the Cardinal/Viking game.

The graphs are the same pull and my car. One uncorrected and the other Std

The conditions were as follows:

74 degrees F
29.31 in-Hg
Humidity 18%
SAE 1.00

GNXS and I were the only ones at the shop. We met there. We did our cars one after the other. I am a fan of Lingenfelter and
wait4meperformance.

Lingenfelter only has the the 1 engine upgrade package at the moment. Mail order was $1,500.00 including their return shipping.

Jess of wait4meperformance has forgotten more than most of us know about the V.
I know Jess has collaborated with Lingenfelter and Hennessey on builds.

This is LPE kit
http://www.lingenfelter.com/engine-packages/cadillac-cts-v-2004-2009/cadillac-cts-v-lsa-2009/378-cid-lsa-supercharger-pulley-upg


Silver-V,

Here is a pic of the SC pulley. It has the Lingenfelter name on it so not stealth. Also, you can see their air tube is not stock but no worries about it collapsing.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/ctsv028.jpg



http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/ctsv025.jpg

cbloveday
12-06-09, 10:25 PM
Silver-V,

I almost forgot, I replaced the stock filter with K&N PN 33-2411 and installed
the Corsa Sport exhaust (axle backs). Should account for a few ponies and certainly sound better going down the strip. :)

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/th_corsacoldstart.jpg (http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/?action=view&current=corsacoldstart.flv)

SILVER-V
12-07-09, 02:05 AM
Guys thanks a lot for the suggestions, cbloveday I will look in that package you have as well, looks great, now I just have to make my decision on what mods I'll go with and I'll give one of these guys a call.

cbloveday
12-07-09, 08:40 AM
Happy modding. I am confident you will be pleased with either wait4meperformance or lingenfelter.

gnxs
12-07-09, 12:22 PM
Silver V,

Looks like you've already gotten some great advice in this thread, but I'll add what's been my experience for what it's worth. I believe you can very easily mod your car to compete with the Evo in question, at least on his base tune. Is your car an auto or stick?

First off, that Evo has a fair amount of mods to be trapping 120+. If he ever decides to launch it like the car is capable of, he'll go significantly quicker than 11.7, possible as fast as an 11.4 on his base tune. What track do you guys race at?

As far as my somewhat limited track/modding experience with the CTS-V, here's what I've found. I've had the car about 2 months, but based on what I had learned while posting here previously (I had a 2006 STS-V earlier), I had Jess at W4M Performance put some quick mods on the car a week after I bought it. I got the full cold-air setup, a 9.5 lower pulley and one of his custom tunes. Nothing crazy at all really.

The very next day, in what is considered average weather for drag racing around here in the Fall (~1100 ft. DA), the car went 11.74 on the factory tires:

http://chicagosvt.com/misc/byron102509/gnxs-ctsv.wmv

About a week or two later, in a little better weather with no other changes (except me getting more aggressive with the launch), I made these passes (11.58 best), nobody with me to video :mad: :

http://home.comcast.net/%7Egnxs/Images/ctsvtimeslips.jpg

Assuming you get similar air quality and have a decently prepped track near you, there's no reason you couldn't duplicate my runs with similar mods on your car. Add a set of drag radials and maybe an exhaust and a perfect run could theoretically net you an 11.3 +/-.

I have a feeling if you start beating him though, he's gonna come with his race tune in the future. Good Luck.

SILVER-V
12-07-09, 12:39 PM
gnxs thanks for the write-up. My car is auto and I've been to the track a couple times. We race at the Palm beach International Raceway in West Palm Beach Florida. The altitude is great(sea level) but sometimes the humidity and weather can be a problem, although at this time of year the weather is nice and cool. My car does great on the first run and then the times go up because the engine starts getting overheated. Your car is another great example of a CTS-V with simple mods running great times, I understand that Jesse put launch control in your tune? Could you explain how this works a bit? I know the concept but not on an automatic car.

gnxs
12-07-09, 03:22 PM
gnxs thanks for the write-up. My car is auto and I've been to the track a couple times. We race at the Palm beach International Raceway in West Palm Beach Florida. The altitude is great(sea level) but sometimes the humidity and weather can be a problem, although at this time of year the weather is nice and cool. My car does great on the first run and then the times go up because the engine starts getting overheated. Your car is another great example of a CTS-V with simple mods running great times, I understand that Jesse put launch control in your tune? Could you explain how this works a bit? I know the concept but not on an automatic car.
I always let the car cool down 30-45 minutes between runs to lessen the heat soak as much as possible although I'm not sure in FL temps how much that would help you down there.

I would contact Jesse directly on the parameters he modifies in the tune to facilitate launching. Firstly, I'm not perfectly clear on exactly what he's doing and don't want to misrepresent what he's modifying. Secondly, I'm not sure it's something that (because of his unique knowledge of these cars) he does that other tuners aren't. I don't want to divulge anything he might not want known or would want to speak into himself.

I suggest giving Jesse a call. He can layout an affordable, effective plan to meet your performance goals and speak into his tuning way more intelligently than I could.

Vrocks
12-07-09, 03:37 PM
Wait4me offers a heat exchanger upgrade that'll help with heat soak. They also offered a radiator upgrade awhile back - I'm not sure if he still has any.

I got the heat exchanger and 160 Tstat to help with any additional mods. If you get his head and cam package with a 9" ring, you'll be around 575 at the wheels - which should beat your sons Evo. If your son decides to upgrade his car with a race tune, you could put the 9.5 ring on.

Those numbers are with the factory exhaust.

gnxs
12-07-09, 04:00 PM
Wait4me offers a heat exchanger upgrade that'll help with heat soak. They also offered a radiator upgrade awhile back - I'm not sure if he still has any.

I got the heat exchanger and 160 Tstat to help with any additional mods. If you get his head and cam package with a 9" ring, you'll be around 575 at the wheels - which should beat your sons Evo. If your son decides to upgrade his car with a race tune, you could put the 9.5 ring on.

Those numbers are with the factory exhaust.
Agreed, The heat exchanger on these cars is miniscule. When I had the mods done on my car about a month or so ago, Jesse had all these items you mentioned in stock.

SILVER-V
12-07-09, 06:14 PM
Wait4me offers a heat exchanger upgrade that'll help with heat soak. They also offered a radiator upgrade awhile back - I'm not sure if he still has any.

I got the heat exchanger and 160 Tstat to help with any additional mods. If you get his head and cam package with a 9" ring, you'll be around 575 at the wheels - which should beat your sons Evo. If your son decides to upgrade his car with a race tune, you could put the 9.5 ring on.

Those numbers are with the factory exhaust.

How much cooler is you car now that you got both of those pieces? Any dramatic changes? Any more consistency in between runs? Thanks. I could also go with the 9.5" from the start and get the other stuff too but Is it true that I'll run out of fuel at that point?

@gnxs - Thanks for the advice once again, I'll contact Jesse when I get a chance, most likely Wednesday or Thursday when I get some free time. I just wanna get everything straightened out and know what I need before I make the call.

Vrocks
12-08-09, 09:18 AM
How much cooler is you car now that you got both of those pieces? Any dramatic changes? Any more consistency in between runs? Thanks. I could also go with the 9.5" from the start and get the other stuff too but Is it true that I'll run out of fuel at that point?


I haven't done any 1/4mi racing. I'm on the stock tune with my mods, so if I'm not rolling around the temp rises quick - I need to go about 40mph for a couple minutes to see the needle drop back to 160 (if you get a tune the fans will help). If I'm on the highway, I can open it up multiple times and the temp gauge won't budge from the 160 mark.

If I did it again I'd start with the 9.5". If you add the other stuff, I'm pretty sure you'll be at the upper limits of a completely stock fuel system. Jesse's the man when it comes to tuning knowledge for the V, he'll tell you exactly what needs to be done for any mod combo.

clubracer6
12-08-09, 12:13 PM
GNXs and cbloveday - I live in the NW burbs and see you are both from Chi-town as well... Any dealers you recommend working with for sale and service. If MotorWerks in Barrington still sells Cadillac I will go there, but I hear they lost that franchise.

also, who did the physical mods to your cars?

Thanks,

Alex

cbloveday
12-08-09, 12:27 PM
Alex,

I bought the last 4 cars from Cadillac of Naperville. I have a great relationship with them. I would be happy to help you if you work with them.
I just bought my 09V and an 2010 SRX from them in July. Let me know if I can help you in any way.

My V is there as we speak getting the ambient lights front and rear (recaros)
They gave me a nice 2010 cts as loaner. All at NC

You can reach them @ 630-355-2700. Tell em Curtis sent you.

clubracer6
12-08-09, 01:02 PM
Thanks for the info!

clubracer6
12-08-09, 02:05 PM
Thanks for the quick response and information!

gnxs
12-08-09, 02:26 PM
I've only had limited dealership experience. One time with my STS-V at Heritage (Lombard, IL) and one service, also on my STS-V, at Naperville. Both places treated me well and did good work.

As far as my mods, Jesse at Wait4Me did the performance mods and tune on my car.

thebigjimsho
12-17-09, 03:41 PM
Any thoughts on slicks?

gnxs
12-21-09, 12:26 PM
Any thoughts on slicks?
My car doesn't need them at the moment because: a) it does well enough for my needs on the stockers, b) I have another car I do most of my drag racing with.

thebigjimsho
12-21-09, 01:10 PM
My last 2 cars were a V1 and an SHO. This is the first car I've owned that's fast AND that I can launch...