: Winter Tire Size?



poor-sha
12-05-09, 02:21 PM
With the first snow on the ground here I'm reconsidering my decision to try and just avoid driving the V this Winter when it snows. I was going to order some tires from Tire Rack and notice they are recommending 255's all the way around.

Has anyone else done this? I understand the rationale for skinnier tires in the snow but does it cause any fitmet issues on stock rims? Any AH issues? Thanks

poor-sha
12-05-09, 02:25 PM
Wierd. I picked the 255 all around option but when I go to the next screen it does two 255 and two 285 - looks like some bug in their web site. Looks like I'll just go with the OEM sizes all around (255/285)

cbloveday
12-05-09, 04:28 PM
Throw some OEM size sotto zeros on her and your good to go.

Prof
12-05-09, 05:28 PM
Here is what I put on...cost just under $1600.

Pirelli Winter 240 Sottozero (Performance Snow)

• Front: 255/40R19
• Load Range: XL
• Blackwall
• Serv. Desc: 100V


• Rear: 285/35R19
• Load Range: XL
• Blackwall

neuronbob
12-05-09, 05:55 PM
Ditto to what Prof said. I am using the stock-sized Pirellis.

GEndo
12-05-09, 06:03 PM
Just put on Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3s 255/40 and new TSW rims all around. $2600 from Discount Tire. Only had a slight dusting of snow here in the Twin Cities, MN, so not much to review for snow traction. I drive a 1997 GMC truck on major snow days.

Short-Throw
12-06-09, 01:31 AM
Has anyone else done this? I understand the rationale for skinnier tires in the snow but does it cause any fitmet issues on stock rims? Any AH issues? Thanks

Sean,

I ran sottos all last year with no issues on a second set of OEM rims and highly recommend them. As I posted last year, these were the best performing tires GM found through their cold weather testing before the car was released.

255/40-19
285/35-19

Mike

poor-sha
12-06-09, 01:22 PM
Thanks everyone

DiamondWhiteCTS-V
12-06-09, 01:51 PM
Running 245/40 R19 Toyo Garit KX all around. So far so good but not enough snow to really know yet. In the dry and cold they are great.

CTS NV
12-06-09, 09:47 PM
From what I've read so far:

285/35/19 rear snow tires may be too wide for decent snow traction, though this seems the most popular option
255/40/19 tires all around are associated at least one electronics nightmare and maybe one success story
245/40/19 tires all around have at least one success story
225/45/19 tires all around have at least one success story (I think)
Owner's manual is absolutely useless

Out of all the choices, 255/40 do have the largest rolling diameter --but I'm surprised a few mm (say 4.5mm) would cause issues

Since we got some snow this weekend, I may have to buy soon. Anyone else running any of these sizes? :hmm:

neuronbob
12-06-09, 10:42 PM
Search for some of Short-Throw's posts from last winter and you will see why many of us are going with stock sized winter tires. He seemed to do reasonably well in the snow.

dg144
12-06-09, 11:07 PM
Sean,

I ran sottos all last year with no issues on a second set of OEM rims and highly recommend them. As I posted last year, these were the best performing tires GM found through their cold weather testing before the car was released.

255/40-19
285/35-19

Mike

Ditto here, mine went on friday and I can't wait to drive to work in the am on our first snow we are supposed get tonight. I ran these tires on my M5 as well and they are awesome

cbloveday
12-07-09, 08:43 AM
we got our first snow this morning. I never thought I would be happy to see it. The sotto zeros worked great. We got about an inch of snow. I think the real test will be when we have a snow storm. Very pleased I ran the Michelin apines 245 18s all around with my m6.
What a joy it is to still have a stance on my V in the winter.

Prof
12-07-09, 10:13 AM
we got our first snow this morning. I never thought I would be happy to see it. The sotto zeros worked great. We got about an inch of snow. I think the real test will be when we have a snow storm. Very pleased I ran the Michelin apines 245 18s all around with my m6.
What a joy it is to still have a stance on my V in the winter.

Wow, you got more than we did up here next to Wisconsin...I'll have to wait for that storm you were talking about...maybe it won't show...not!

We need to get the Chicago area V's together in May (when spring arrives).

CoOlSlY
12-07-09, 01:49 PM
From what I've read so far:

285/35/19 rear snow tires may be too wide for decent snow traction, though this seems the most popular option
255/40/19 tires all around are associated at least one electronics nightmare and maybe one success story
245/40/19 tires all around have at least one success story
225/45/19 tires all around have at least one success story (I think)
Owner's manual is absolutely useless

Out of all the choices, 255/40 do have the largest rolling diameter --but I'm surprised a few mm (say 4.5mm) would cause issues

Since we got some snow this weekend, I may have to buy soon. Anyone else running any of these sizes? :hmm:

I sent several messages to the one who states that he would run 225/45/19 but he answered back that he no longer have the car so he was not able to test if it worked fine...

gnxs
12-07-09, 03:54 PM
With the first snow on the ground here I'm reconsidering my decision to try and just avoid driving the V this Winter when it snows. I was going to order some tires from Tire Rack and notice they are recommending 255's all the way around.

Has anyone else done this? I understand the rationale for skinnier tires in the snow but does it cause any fitmet issues on stock rims? Any AH issues? Thanks
I think the reason they quote 255's all around on a wheel/tire package is because the wheels they carry that would fit the "V" are not wide enough for the 285's so it defaults to 255's all around. If you just shop tires from them, they offer the Sottozero setup in the factory sizes (front and back) as others here are using.

I'm not interested in paying too much for a Winter setup, so I may go with the 255 all-around setup with the $199 rims. Came out to just under $2,000 with 4 new TPMS's, mounted and balanced. Just need to add shipping.

I will need to find out about the electronic issues that were mentioned here before pulling the trigger though. If they're tire height related, my XCal3 should be able to account for that by tweaking the Tire Revs per mile parameter (assuming it works the same way as the XCal2 does for my Cobra).

CoOlSlY
12-07-09, 08:35 PM
Do you know by any chances if that wheel would fit the 09-10 V's?

19 x 8.5 -- 5x120 bolt pattern
http://www.1010tires.com/wheel.asp?wheelbrand=Falken&wheelmodel=Koblenz&pc=75%2D433%2D007

FastRunner
12-07-09, 09:42 PM
I think the offset of 38 isn't enough for our car. You could ask them to be sure.

CoOlSlY
12-07-09, 09:56 PM
I think the offset of 38 isn't enough for our car. You could ask them to be sure.

Well, Tirerack seems to suggest a ASA with a 35mm offset for the 09-10 V...

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/WheelCloseUpServlet?target=runWheelSearch&autoMake=Cadillac&autoModel=CTS-V&autoYear=2010&autoModClar=&initialPartNumber=GT1913BS&i1_Qty=4&wheelMake=ASA&wheelModel=GT1&wheelFinish=Bright+Silver+Paint&showRear=no

CTS NV
12-07-09, 10:52 PM
I sent several messages to the one who states that he would run 225/45/19 but he answered back that he no longer have the car so he was not able to test if it worked fine...

Good to know. The diameter of the 225/45 is only about 3.0mm more than the 285/35 as opposed to the 255/40 which is 4.5mm more.

On the other hand both are less than 1% difference in overall diameter, so I would be surprised if the electronics have trouble as a result of either.

The tire rack package, 255/40 all around + ASA wheels is the best deal for around $2K, assuming it works.

CoOlSlY
12-09-09, 08:10 PM
Got 1 foot of snow today :| I have a beater for now (09 STi) but the V is coming in a month or so, will have to decide what path i'll go!

cbloveday
12-09-09, 09:24 PM
With the Chicago snowfall of about just under 1 foot, I got around fine today with OEM 240 sottozeros. That being said, the traction control light came on
several times on my way home tonight, which was expected. :yawn:

There was a 300c, (NOT SURE WHAT HE HAD ON THE RIMS) that was stuck on the hill approaching our subdivision. He could not get up it and traffic backed up as a result. I think he must of had summer tires on or something.

My wife called me to warn me and I was already home having a snack!:rolleyes:

mpouls1
12-09-09, 09:48 PM
With the Chicago snowfall of about just under 1 foot, I got around fine today with OEM 240 sottozeros. That being said, the traction control light came on
several times on my way home tonight, which was expected. :yawn:

There was a 300c, (NOT SURE WHAT HE HAD ON THE RIMS) that was stuck on the hill approaching our subdivision. He could not get up it and traffic backed up as a result. I think he must of had summer tires on or something.

My wife called me to warn me and I was already home having a snack!:rolleyes:

We received our Northern Illinois 8'+ snowfall last night, this morning, and then again this evening.

I had ran Blizzaks on my cSRT8 last year. No way was I ever going to drive on stocks for the winter. Had no problems.

I was a little concerned how the 240's were going to handle as the V has more power and torque obviously. My neighborhood waits to do a good plow until the heavy stuff is gone. Had to drive my way out this morning. These guys should be paying me to plow as this car is so low to the ground. Wow! I would say compared to my blizzaks these tires are a little better in snow, less in rain and ice. Different cars but my observations.

I'm no tire expert but I doubt I would notice much of a difference in different sized wheels/tires. OEM sizes work fantastic!

I had quite an amusing day last night and this morning/evening. Cars and trucks spinning tires, getting stuck in parking spots and when pulling out... as I'm slowly cruising along with some confidence now. I'll second that :yawn:

Baxman
12-10-09, 12:35 AM
In the Seattle area, we don't usually get a lot of snow. I decided that I would leave the PS2s on and just drive my 4WD when it snows, especially given the 5" ground clearance of the front air dam. In the past week, our highs have been barely at the freezing mark, with lows in the teens. I've noticed that in the cold, dry traction is about like wet traction in warm temps. Is it a mistake to run the summer/performance Michelins in the winter even if I don't intend to drive in the snow?

Short-Throw
12-10-09, 02:15 AM
Is it a mistake to run the summer/performance Michelins in the winter even if I don't intend to drive in the snow?


It's a common fallacy that people believe snow is required to run winter tires. Winter tires are more pliable and allow better footing in the cold weather. Turn the wheel in cold weather when the car has been parked and feel to the PS2's clunk on the pavement.

Here's an excerpt from one of my posts last year:

From carjunky.com


.....NC)--Every year there is this dilemma: should you mount winter tires or should you stay with your all season tires? We always question is it going to snow a lot or is it just going to be cold and will our all-season tires be good enough. Well here is some news for you, winter tires are not only designed to work better in snow, slush and ice but also when it simply gets cold.

the tire's tread rubber needs to remain flexible to do the job it was designed to do. "Good winter tires are designed to handle every aspect of winter driving."

In a study done by the Quebec Ministry of Transport comparing all season vs winter tires, results showed that you can get up to 25 percent better breaking and 38 percent better collision avoidance by using a proper winter tire.

The ministry summary concluded: "Winter tires perform better than the All Season tires, particularly in very cold temperatures. Furthermore, during braking, a crucial component of road safety, winter tires do provide superior results when compared to All Season tires.

Consequently, any driver concerned with vehicle safety will have good winter tires installed on their vehicle" during the cold weather season.

Many summer and all season tires start to lose their tread compound flexibility as the ambient temperature drops. Bridgman states that with the current increasing trend for vehicles to come equipped with performance tires right from the factory, it is even more important to consider "Cold Weather Tires" for winter driving.




From:

http://therubberassociationofcanada....es-matter.html

Winter Tires Matter!


“The latest generations of winter tires offer motorists an important driving performance advantage in all winter-driving conditions, including dry road surfaces,” says Glenn Maidment, President of the Rubber Association of Canada (RAC), which represents Canada’s tire makers. “All tire rubber will begin to stiffen as the weather gets colder, but today’s winter tires maintain their elasticity even at extremely low temperatures approaching minus 30 degrees Celsius. The result is superior traction and handling whether the roadway is snowy, icy, slush covered or dry.”

Traditionally, many drivers, particularly those who live in cities or towns where the streets are cleared regularly, have opted for all-season tires to avoid the cost and inconvenience of the bi-annual winter tire changeover.

Even though all-season tires can provide safe all-weather performance, drivers need to know that the efficiency of winter tires greatly surpasses them once temperatures fall below seven degrees Celsius. Modern winter tires offer up to 50 per cent more winter traction than all-season tires, which translates to shorter stopping distances and better vehicle cornering and control.

“The cold-weather traction advantage offered by today’s winter tires is considerable,” says Maidment. "Motorists should stop thinking of winter tires as ‘snow tires’ and start thinking of them as ‘cold weather’ tires"



Remember, it's not how good of a driver you are, but how to handle the unexpected and having the proper equipment to do it. Winter tires aren't a requirement, but they make foul weather driving a little safer, even if it's just cold out.

Hard to believe we made it from the days of bias-ply tires and no ABS huh?


The entire thread can be found here:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/157291-best-tire-max-traction-cold-weather.html




Mike

Prof
12-10-09, 02:57 AM
Thanks Mike excellent input, and very relevant to us here in northern IL.

Still have not been able to really evaluate the Sotto's...even yesterday's snow was pretty much cleared away by the time I hit the roads yesterday...but my chance is coming I have no doubt!

Roy

pj911
12-10-09, 12:00 PM
Using stock size sottos I drove in 3-4 inches of snow yesterday in Northern Vermont. Tires did well, but certainly uphill traction suffered with the wide stock size. Braking and turning was fine as was driving on fairly level roads. If someone was driving in an area of occasional snow, I think they would be happy with these as they still provide tremendous grip on cold dry roads for a snow tire. I narrower rear would be better in snow, but in reality I spend more days driving on cold dry roads in the winter. The fact that these rear tires spin so easily in the dry, I think I would burn off a narrow rear in no time.

neuronbob
12-10-09, 12:53 PM
Amazingly, the big winter storm expected here in NE Ohio fizzled out. I have rarely been disappointed that it didn't snow and this was one of those times. We got a dusting both where I live in the 'burbs, and where I work downtown. With what little snow was on the ground, I found it better to keep the transmission in touring mode rather than sport mode; starting in 1st gear with the sport mode caused the rear to slip a little. Starting in 2nd gear, as is done in touring mode....no problemo.

The stopping distance on the Sottozeros in this weather is REALLY impressive, and on dry roads in the 20-deg temps we've had lately, handling is still spot on. This is with just short of 900 miles on the tires.

CoOlSlY
12-10-09, 01:26 PM
Do you know by any chances if that wheel would fit the 09-10 V's?

19 x 8.5 -- 5x120 bolt pattern
http://www.1010tires.com/wheel.asp?wheelbrand=Falken&wheelmodel=Koblenz&pc=75%2D433%2D007


Just to let you know, the wheel shown in the link will *NOT* work on the 09-10 CTS-V

Baxman
12-10-09, 07:47 PM
A persuasive explanation. Thanks, Mike.

Baxman
12-10-09, 10:45 PM
While looking at winter tires, I found this interesting little video with a twist at the end:

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/brochure/winter/tmpSafetyBelow45.jsp

neuronbob
12-11-09, 08:53 AM
I found this interesting little video with a twist at the end:

Yeah, that really delivers the point nicely. :bonkers: OUCH!

matia
12-22-09, 02:20 PM
Called Tire Rack to order my winter tires with the intention of ordering the stock size but the guy convinced me that going 255/40 all around would be absolutely no problem, guaranteed. They were sent directly to the dealership and I have plans on picking up my 09 V and driving it home 400 miles. The dealership called me and said I ordered the wrong size tires. I tried explaining to her that apparently they work but she did not seem to think so. So, I am still confused. Called Tire Rack and they insist it should work. They are calling the dealership as we speak to "discuss" it. They are willing to ship the stock size for the rear down if in fact they do not work. I am running out of time and am not sure what to do. Do I just go with the stock size or will the 255's work. I understand there is some concern with the traction control using the smaller tire. What is the opinion of everyone?

matia
12-22-09, 02:23 PM
by the way, they are the Sottozero 240's...

matia
12-22-09, 02:39 PM
Sorry for reposting this:

Called Tire Rack to order my winter tires with the intention of ordering the stock size but the guy convinced me that going 255/40 all around would be absolutely no problem, guaranteed. They were sent directly to the dealership and I have plans on picking up my 09 V and driving it home 400 miles. The dealership called me and said I ordered the wrong size tires. I tried explaining to her that apparently they work but she did not seem to think so. So, I am still confused. Called Tire Rack and they insist it should work. They are calling the dealership as we speak to "discuss" it. They are willing to ship the stock size for the rear down if in fact they do not work. I am running out of time and am not sure what to do. Do I just go with the stock size or will the 255's work. I understand there is some concern with the traction control using the smaller tire. What is the opinion of everyone?

By the way, they are Sottozero 240's.

Prof
12-22-09, 02:46 PM
I used the stock sizes and they have performed perfectly...don't know if that helps...but I am very satisfied and a little mystified as to why one would not go with the stock sizes...not sure that I would accept Tire Rack as my CTS V expert, ever. They may have sold ten sets over the past two years...

neuronbob
12-22-09, 04:09 PM
Go with the stock sized Sottozeros. GM tested them and they worked....I accept GM as my CTS-V expert, not the Tire Rack. We, the masses of the forum, use them and I can tell you from my own personal experience they work just fine. Yes, they cost, but you get what you pay for...which is, in this case, peace of mind. ;)

matia
12-22-09, 09:08 PM
I called TireRack and insisted they ship the stock size rears and I will return the original ones they sent. They kept insisting the smaller size will work just fine. I noted some of the concerns some forum members have had and they pretty much dismissed them. They kept saying...who knows more about tires, us or the GM dealer? Well, thanks for the suggestions and I have decided its not worth taking the chance. My dealership specifically noted concerns about the sensors and safety with the smaller tire. One comment TireRack made is: how is the CTS-V any different than BMW or other cars out there that they have done this in the past with?

cbloveday
12-23-09, 05:52 AM
I run stock size sottos in Chicago and you've made the right choice going with OEM size. Do what the dealer says. If you have problems or an incident,
Tire rack does not have a service dept with techs.

neuronbob
12-23-09, 09:54 AM
I ordered my tires via Tire Rack's online service, so I didn't get "advice". Sounds like you got a pushy, rude salesperson and you should bring it up with their super. Their job is to take your order.

lbenoit
12-24-09, 07:24 AM
I know it is tempting to go with non-OEM tire sizes to save some cabbage, but for what it is worth, the CTS-V owner's manual says to stay with OEM sizes. I purchased the Pirelli Sottozero 240 snow tires from TireRack and they handle very well in cold and dry conditions (much better than I ever expected) and provide decent traction in snow. You'll never confuse the CTS-V with a Subaru in a snowstorm, but you can get around with cautious driving in a few inches of the white stuff.

CoOlSlY
12-24-09, 07:38 AM
I know it is tempting to go with non-OEM tire sizes to save some cabbage, but for what it is worth, the CTS-V owner's manual says to stay with OEM sizes. I purchased the Pirelli Sottozero 240 snow tires from TireRack and they handle very well in cold and dry conditions (much better than I ever expected) and provide decent traction in snow. You'll never confuse the CTS-V with a Subaru in a snowstorm, but you can get around with cautious driving in a few inches of the white stuff.

Just sold my 09 STi yesterday since my V was built mid december and is coming beginning january... Hope I won't miss the Subby too much ;) I will be testing with 255/40 all around and we'll see.