: Honda Prelude acquired. So nice!



Jesda
12-02-09, 06:56 PM
I went and looked today, drove it, and picked it out for my brother. Parents wrote the check for $6500.

Its a 1999 with a sunroof, leather, and automatic transmission.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/AT10785131-800px-o1.jpg

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/AT10785131-800px-p10.jpg

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/AT10785131-800px-p13.jpg

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/AT10785131-800px-p14.jpg

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/AT10785131-800px-p15.jpg

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/AT10785131-800px-p16.jpg

Its a ONE OWNER local car purchased at Frontenac Honda in 1999.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/AT10785131-800px-p20.jpg
OMG VTEC !@##!@#!@!!!!!!11111Asdf;asjldfasdf;ljaskdfjadsff

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/AT10785131-800px-p21.jpg

108,000 miles, gorgeous, smooth, and reasonably powerful. The last generation Prelude was one of my high school dream cars, and after driving it, it lives up to every expectation.

And that stranded Civic that I retrieved in Kansas? With the trade-in value being barely $1000, we decided to keep it for out of town guests to drive.

The salesman was a regular guy we go to, so I took him back to my mom's house to check out the condition of the Civic, because I was concerned that my parents didn't fully convey the severity of the body damage.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00186.jpg
I accidentally put in a red security reset key (Honda has some kind of key programming system), so I wasn't able to start the car.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00188.jpg
No one was home, so we sat in the car waiting for a flatbed. Then, just in time, my aunt and stepdad showed up. The tow truck arrived and the tow operator got it started, probably because there was a 5 or 10 minute reset timer that finally ticked over.

Stepdad wrote a check and the deal was done. Perfect timing. My brother's picking it up this weekend. I'll post up a more detailed review later since I have to head to class, but its just a wonderful car.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00189.jpg
Note to self: NEVER TOUCH THE RED KEY! EVER!

The best part about all of this, most importantly, is that I FINALLY GET MY CADILLAC BACK!
The Seville's ownership changed hands as follows:
1. I bought it from a CadillacOwners.com member in 2007 and drove it all the way back from Long Island, NY.
2. I sold it to a guy in Illinois and bought a warranty for the Range Rover
3. A couple years later, I saw it on Craigslist and had my brother get it since his 240SX was on its last leg (needed body and suspension work, engine and tranny were still great)
http://www.q45.org/uploads2/92stsroadtrip/100_3641.JPG
4. The STS is finally, once again, mine!

ryannel2003
12-02-09, 07:28 PM
Have a soft spot for Prelude's. My best friend's '94 VTEC still looks great after 15 years and 190k miles. His brother had a '98 and it was extremely impressive and handled great. I personally like the 4th Gen body style the best, but the 5th Gen is right up there in my books too.

gary88
12-02-09, 07:38 PM
Nice! A good looking car that will last forever.

gdwriter
12-02-09, 08:06 PM
Very nice find. I've never been wild about the headlights on those, but the rest of the car looks great, and Preludes are a real kick to drive.

The 92-96 generation, however, always looked to me like the bastard child of an Accord and an Oldsmobile:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y90/termigator/VTEC1.jpg

Mom:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/57402048_46a6b4f4c1.jpg?v=0

Dad:

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/pictures/VEHICLE/1996/Oldsmobile/1673/1996.oldsmobile.cutlasssupreme.8753-E.jpg

ryannel2003
12-02-09, 08:20 PM
The 4th Gen's do have hints of Accord in the rear. I like the interior though! The gauges are neat, while the 5th Gen looks a alot like an Accord. That picture isn't great though; has typical fartcan and aftermarket wheels. Here are my friends Prelude's (they are twin brothers)

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n46/ryannel2003/IMG_0376.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n46/ryannel2003/IMG_0567.jpg

The sexy kid in the red Prelude is me. I could drive that car all day long with no complaints...

77CDV
12-02-09, 08:22 PM
Looks like a nice little puddle jumper. Good car for a young student type.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-02-09, 08:51 PM
I really wanted a prelude when I was 14-15. I'm sure they drive wonderfully, but it's not really my cup of tea.

orconn
12-02-09, 08:51 PM
Looks like a fun car that will hang together. Welcome back to the 4th generation Seville club!

Stingroo
12-02-09, 08:53 PM
It's nice and all, but I think it would honestly interest me more if it was RWD.

That said, that one IS a nice buy. It'll probably live another two times what it already has on it if maintained well. Probably even three.

1964CoupeDeville
12-02-09, 09:45 PM
Which one is the prelude? I'm sorry, all the cars in all your pics look the same.

V-Eight
12-02-09, 09:53 PM
.....just like the people who make them....

Jesda
12-02-09, 09:57 PM
Which one is the prelude? I'm sorry, all the cars in all your pics look the same.

The one at the bottom is a cadillac!

1964CoupeDeville
12-02-09, 09:59 PM
The one at the bottom is a cadillac!

I was being sarcastic. I was making a jab at how most new cars are all too similar.

PS: It's over 10 years old so it's past it's expiration.

Jesda
12-02-09, 10:14 PM
http://telepromptedanthems.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/u-mad1.jpg

RightTurn
12-02-09, 10:47 PM
.....just like the people who make them....

:rimshot:

LS1Mike
12-02-09, 11:18 PM
My EX-wife had a 98 SH . A fairly decent car. Was never my cup of tea. But they are pretty nice and it had good brakes. I have never driven an auto one. It required more maintenance than my 98 Z28 that is for sure and the gas mileage between the two was almost indentical. I will let you guess which one was slow. We bought both of those new that year. She wanted the Honda. I did not. That is why I got the Z28.

ENSURE the timing belt has been done with those miles. My EX was supposed to have the timing belt done while I was out to sea. She blew it off. I came home to a car needing a new head, water pump and timing belt. That cut into a weekend or two.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-03-09, 12:35 AM
Jesda, I'm anxious to hear your drive report. My guesses are that it's got razor sharp handling, and while being quite quick (IIRC, about as quick in the 0-60 as a N* STS or GS/GTP), it's a revver and not a torquer.

thebigjimsho
12-03-09, 01:59 AM
Almost bought a Prelude SH back after I first cracked the V. Twould've been nice...


But the V2 is nicer...

Aron9000
12-03-09, 02:23 AM
My sister has one of those "fun" Hondas, a 2003 Acura RSX. Its the base model with an automatic:nono:

Not very fast, but it does sound nice and is silky smooth. Revs to the moon like any good Honda motor, but the automatic sucks any fun out of the equation IMO. The lack of torque is very obvious with an automatic always upshifting on you, but transmission does give you a maunal mode to hold gears.

The suspension is very stiff and unforgiving IMO, but it pays its dividends in the handling department. The closest thing it reminds me of is a Mini Cooper, in terms of how tossable and responsive it is. Its an absolute ball to drive on a curvy backroad. That being said, it is really wearing on a long drive, and its really noisy inside as well.

Its been dead nuts reliable, but the car does have some very annoying rattles(its got almost 100k on it last time I checked), and the leather on the seats(which are Recaro like comfy and supportive I might add) is very cheap and has split on the driver's side.

I'd imagine the Predule would drive very similar to her car, and might be a good bit quieter since its not a hatchback.

Jonas McFeely
12-03-09, 06:19 AM
I was being sarcastic. I was making a jab at how most new cars are all too similar.

PS: It's over 10 years old so it's past it's expiration.

:rolleyes:


On topic: My dad's last drag race story involves a Prelude Type-SH and his old MX-6 LS. I believe it was the last race he's ever been in and the one he tells with the most passion...even more so than his Stage-1 GS stories. This happened back in '00 or '01. I love hearing the story just because of how he tells it. Im tired so i'll spare the details, the Prelude got him off the line but by 50mph dad had a 1/2 length on him and then had 1 1/2 lengths by 80mph. Long live the mighty MX-6!

ryannel2003
12-03-09, 10:34 AM
My sister has one of those "fun" Hondas, a 2003 Acura RSX. Its the base model with an automatic:nono:

Not very fast, but it does sound nice and is silky smooth. Revs to the moon like any good Honda motor, but the automatic sucks any fun out of the equation IMO. The lack of torque is very obvious with an automatic always upshifting on you, but transmission does give you a maunal mode to hold gears.

The suspension is very stiff and unforgiving IMO, but it pays its dividends in the handling department. The closest thing it reminds me of is a Mini Cooper, in terms of how tossable and responsive it is. Its an absolute ball to drive on a curvy backroad. That being said, it is really wearing on a long drive, and its really noisy inside as well.

Its been dead nuts reliable, but the car does have some very annoying rattles(its got almost 100k on it last time I checked), and the leather on the seats(which are Recaro like comfy and supportive I might add) is very cheap and has split on the driver's side.

I'd imagine the Predule would drive very similar to her car, and might be a good bit quieter since its not a hatchback.

All Honda's have quite a bit of road noise for some reason. I drove my neighbors '09 Accord EX V6 the other day and it was louder than a Chevy Malibu I drove earlier this year. My friend's Prelude isn't really loud for something that is so old.

To be honest the interior is better built than my car with less squeaks and rattles, and the leather looks amazing for a '94 with 190k miles on it. Just goes to show you how well built Honda's were in the 90's.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-03-09, 11:05 AM
Honda still has their reputation for building high quality cars. Not so much with Toyota.

V-Eight
12-03-09, 01:16 PM
That's because Toyota has really gone downhill.

LS1Mike
12-03-09, 10:41 PM
Oh by the way Jesda,
That car does look nice and clean. How is the automatic in it? Real soft or nice and crisp. I can't stand a soft auto. That is why I put the shift kit in the Regal.

ryannel2003
12-04-09, 12:10 AM
Honda's these days are not nearly as well built as their 90's cars were. More cheap materials and rattles than the older models.

ga_etc
12-04-09, 02:04 AM
Honda's these days are not nearly as well built as their 90's cars were. More cheap materials and rattles than the older models.

All too true. The first car that I bought on my own was a '91 Accord EX. I bought it in 2005 with 213K on it. There was very minimal wear on the driver seat and the rest of the interior looked like new. Never a squeak or rattle from any of the interior trim. I sold it a little over a year later with 224K on it with only having to replace the alternator. It was a fantastic little car. If it had have been a 5-speed rather than an automatic I never would have sold it. I think the guy I sold it to may have just recently sold it after having it over 3 years.

thebigjimsho
12-04-09, 07:19 PM
I don't know about that. I have a good friend with an '09 Accord and know someone else who has both a new Accord and a new Pilot. Both tight, rattle free and with good materials...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-04-09, 07:22 PM
My grandpa used to swear by Hondas. He bought his first Accord in '82, and had 'em until '05 or so. I remember him having an '87, a '91, a '94, a '99 and an '04.

thebigjimsho
12-04-09, 08:00 PM
I bought my Accord because I needed to have a daily driver with my SHO being so specialized at the time. I needed something that was reliable and that held its value. I wanted it to help restore my credit and then be able to sell it and get some of my cash back.

Ended up selling the SHO and trading in the Accord to get the V1. And I do miss that Accord. It was a great car for what I needed and was well designed...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-04-09, 08:17 PM
What year was yours?

When I think of Hondas, I always think of great ergonomics. It seems like they always put things were they were easily accessed and they were simple to use.

orconn
12-05-09, 12:37 AM
I've always liked Hondas and appreciated how well designed they were and in general well put together. My son had a 1997 Honda Accord for three years. One of those years he spent at the University of Edinburgh and that year I drove it quite a lot. I found it to be a very satisfactory car with good build quality, handling and performace. The only real dissappointment was in the upholstery material which be gan showing signs of wear within the first year of my son's ownership. The seat covers didn't hold up very well, but the rest of the car stood the test of thrre years time quite. My son has had two additional haond products a 2006 Pilot and now a 2009 Odyssey. While I haven't driven them I have been impressed with their overall quality. Their quiet operation and precision fit are very impressive and while the last two models were an upgrade from then Accord I definitely wouldn't say the quality has declined in the later cars.

thebigjimsho
12-05-09, 01:44 AM
What year was yours?

When I think of Hondas, I always think of great ergonomics. It seems like they always put things were they were easily accessed and they were simple to use.
It was an '01 Accord coupe. The front end had a subtle redesign that really set it off. Very nice looking coupe with perfect ergonomics.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-05-09, 01:52 AM
A friend of mine has an '01 accord coupe EX-V6, silver with black leather, fully loaded with everything but heated seats. He loves that thing.

thebigjimsho
12-05-09, 01:55 AM
A friend of mine has an '01 accord coupe EX-V6, silver with black leather, fully loaded with everything but heated seats. He loves that thing.
Mine was a 4-cyl 5 speed that was fully loaded, as much as the 4-cyl could be. I think I didn't get nav, homelink and a couple other little things that were offered on the V6...

I had H&R springs and Konig 17" wheels. Sharp little car. And the Midnight Black Pearl paint was the hottest ever! And the custom stereo I had in it was teh best ever...

gdwriter
12-06-09, 02:58 AM
I loved my 99 Accord EX coupe. Saw it tonight at my niece's apartment when we went out to dinner in Grand Forks. Also drove my sister's 06 Odyssey Touring today and rode in it going back and forth between Grand Forks and Park River. It drives very nicely and is pretty luxurious inside. If I had a family and needed the room of a minivan, I would buy an Odyssey. Too bad most current Hondas and Acuras look hideous.

codewize
12-08-09, 10:32 PM
Wow OK that's sounds like a pretty insane amount of money for anything 1999 to me but OK. I have an 98 in my driveway I'm sure my son will sell you for half that.

Oh and, my 01 DTS will spank that thing on the track, run in down in the corners and all with the massage heated seats on.

Don't get me wrong. I like the Prelude for what it is but still, that's a lot of cash.

thebigjimsho
12-08-09, 11:02 PM
Wow OK that's sounds like a pretty insane amount of money for anything 1999 to me but OK. I have an 98 in my driveway I'm sure my son will sell you for half that.

Oh and, my 01 DTS will spank that thing on the track, run in down in the corners and all with the massage heated seats on.

Don't get me wrong. I like the Prelude for what it is but still, that's a lot of cash.
It's a lot of cash but it will still be a lot of cash when you decide to sell it. Try that with the DTS...

Aron9000
12-08-09, 11:13 PM
A decent condition LS1 Camaro or Trans Am starts at around $6500, and only goes up in price from there, and they're now 8-11 years old. Hondas do tend to be overpriced used, especially the cool ones like Civic Si's, Integras, Predules, RSX, etc

gdwriter
12-08-09, 11:19 PM
Hondas are a good buy new since they hold their value well. Not such a good buy used (although I wouldn't call this Prelude a rip-off). With a GM car, the opposite is true. I'm counting on GM resale values to remain lousy for a few years so I can get a good deal on a second-generation CTS when it's time to retire the Seville. But that's a long way off.

Jesda
12-09-09, 03:49 AM
Oh yeah, I promised a little review. A little one it shall be.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00196.jpg
Waiting at Plaza Cadillac for paperwork.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00197.jpg
CTS wagon.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00198.jpg
Sales floor policy.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00199.jpg
"THANKS MOM!"

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00200.jpg
Handshake with Jack Byram, who has sold our family several cars over the years.


Steering and Handling - 4.7/5 - SHARP AS A TACK. Not much else to say. I wish the steering wheel was a bit smaller I guess?

Suspension/Ride - 2.5/5 - Lots of road and tire noise, possibly the fault of the Coopers. I'd have to drive another Prelude to be sure. A little harsh over bumps in town, but it smooths out nicely on the highway. No significant wind noise. Pleasingly stable around highway on-ramps with no bobbing.

Braking - 4/5

Interior/Comfort - 3/5 - The seats are perfect, well-bolstered and supportive, probably comfortable on longer drives. AC and heat function quickly and easily with chunky switches large enough to operate with gloves on. Unfortunately, my arms and legs are short and the steering wheel is too far away. I dont know if the Prelude ever had a telescoping wheel, but it could definitely use one. The tiny rear seat is doable for a quick drive in town, nothing more than 5 or 10 miles. Kids would be perfectly comfortably. Chubby Asian men in their late 20s, not so much.

Audio - 3/5 - Just a stock radio with some decent speakers that produce respectable clarity. Nothing amazing, nothing bad.

Body/Styling - 4.7/5 - This was one of my "realistic" high school dream cars. I love the wide tail lights, long rear deck (coupes and sedans these days shorten the tail too much), long hood, straight beltline, and low roof. The headlight lens shape is supposed to resemble to the original 1980s Prelude.
http://crazydazey.com/MORE/88prelude.jpg
Its an odd shape when the popup lights arent actually there, but its still nice.

Power and Acceleration - 3/5 - Torque? Not much, but at least you don't have to wind the piss out of it like an S2000. There's just enough low end acceleration to putter around town, but it seems to run out of steam at around 70mph.

Transmission - 2.5/5 - For a small car that prides itself on looking and feeling sporty, the transmission is unusually mushy. I was hoping for sharp, quick shifts instead of the soft and somewhat delayed behavior of this automatic.

Overall - 4/5 - Expensive due to rarity, but fun and comfortable. An economical daily driver that doesn't loudly announce your frugality to the world.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-09, 08:16 AM
Thanks for the review Jesda, great as always. By the sounds of it, I think I'd like the Accord Coupe more. It's a bigger, more luxurious, more mature version of the Prelude, especially when spec'd out in EX-V6 form.

LS1Mike
12-09-09, 10:19 AM
Not a bad review. I was wondering about how the tranny would shift. When my ex wife got the one she had we test drove an auto and that was a mushy bastard, that is why we opted for the 5 speed. I am sure a fluid and filter change would help to firm it up. Does anyone make a shift kit for it?

Stingroo
12-09-09, 12:29 PM
It's a Honda, I'm sure 37,000 companies do.

Jesda
12-09-09, 12:49 PM
Thanks for the review Jesda, great as always. By the sounds of it, I think I'd like the Accord Coupe more. It's a bigger, more luxurious, more mature version of the Prelude, especially when spec'd out in EX-V6 form.

Problem is, the Accord V6 has the nasty H5 automatic.

Rodya234
12-09-09, 06:05 PM
Transmission - 2.5/5 - For a small car that prides itself on looking and feeling sporty, the transmission is unusually mushy. I was hoping for sharp, quick shifts instead of the soft and somewhat delayed behavior of this automatic.


How does that compare to the trans in the STS? Personally, I hate the 4T60-E.

Jesda
12-09-09, 06:18 PM
I actually like the 4T60-E. Its more responsive and crisper than the Aisin box in the LS400 and the Jatco one in the Q45.

Rodya234
12-09-09, 06:34 PM
I actually like the 4T60-E. Its more responsive and crisper than the Aisin box in the LS400 and the Jatco one in the Q45.

I don't know about the Touring Sedans, but in the base Deville the the shifts don't feel very firm, and I often find myself getting impatient waiting for a downshift if I hit the throttle while going over 35.

Night Wolf
12-09-09, 08:40 PM
GM makes some of the best autos out there, and the 4T60E (and all it's variants) is among their finest FWD trans.

Keep in mind the targeted market that bought these old Cadillacs new, and the way they wanted their cars to shift. I was very happy with mine in the '93 Coupe DeVille, under part throttle it shifted smooth, full throttle it was pretty positive, seemed to know when to downshift at the right times too.

If it seems to be acting up, replace the vacuum modulator valve, they are cheap and easy, and at this point I would consider it to be an item that should be changed anyway.

gary88
12-09-09, 08:48 PM
I don't know about the Touring Sedans, but in the base Deville the the shifts don't feel very firm, and I often find myself getting impatient waiting for a downshift if I hit the throttle while going over 35.

Well a base Deville isn't exactly a sports car, so I wouldn't expect it to shift like one.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-09, 08:54 PM
Problem is, the Accord V6 has the nasty H5 automatic.

Would that transmission not be so problematic if you maintained it thoroughly? Honda is infamous for toting their "no maintenance needed" transmissions.


I actually like the 4T60-E. Its more responsive and crisper than the Aisin box in the LS400 and the Jatco one in the Q45.

+1. The 4T60-E took all I doled out and never skipped a beat. My dad still raves about how great that transmission was and he never really liked that car in and of it's self.


GM makes some of the best autos out there, and the 4T60E (and all it's variants) is among their finest FWD trans.

Keep in mind the targeted market that bought these old Cadillacs new, and the way they wanted their cars to shift. I was very happy with mine in the '93 Coupe DeVille, under part throttle it shifted smooth, full throttle it was pretty positive, seemed to know when to downshift at the right times too.

GM makes some of the finest automatic transmissions, bar none. The 4L60-E in the Astro works wonderfully, even with 187,000 (well maintained) miles on it. The 4T60-E in the deVille was great too, as is the 4T65-E in the Regal. They downshift quickly and firmly, but they're never hunting for the right gear (or maybe because the supercharged 3.8, 4.3 and 4.9 are so torque rich and smooth :) ), never hesitate upon upshift or anything else weird. My dad had a 4T40-E in his Lumina, and that would hesitate upon the 1-2 upshift, but I think that's more due to the fact my father never drove that thing hard, so by never getting worked hard and shifting fast, that happened.

I've heard some complaints about the 4T40 & 4T60 in the 3.1 and 3.8 Buicks, but again that's only because Buicks are designed by nature to shift softly and that's what ends up hurting them. I leave my PERF SHIFT button pushed all the time in my GS, and I hear that helps.

Night Wolf
12-09-09, 09:10 PM
My '89 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight had a 440T4 (4T60) and it performed nearly as well as the 4T60E in my '93 Coupe. I remember it not always downshifting as quick as the Caddy, which may have been because of the TV cable control vs/ electronic, but either way, they were both superb.

The 4R70W in my '96 Town Car, while stout and reliable, just never shifted as positive, well, and just generally at the right times as the GM boxes, and I did all the updates on that thing.

It is what it is, automatics are boring, IMO.... but atleast GM got the boring right. Unless it's got a clutch that is operated by foot and a gear shifted connected to a manual transmission, it may as well be an auto, atleast as far as any road-legal cars are concerned. Autos can shift faster, yes. But for me, on the street, it's about the fun factor.

The V6 Accords could also be had with a manual trans, right? They are pretty neat in that regard, would probably be a fun daily driver is one needed a family sedan type car. That was the problem with GM up until a few years ago, if you wanted a manual transmission car, it was either a Sunfire or a Trans Am, nothing inbetween. Perhaps thats one of the reasons I have been getting interested in other makes and types of cars, because across the board, they could be had with a manual transmission. In the case of the e30 - BMW just did so many things freakin right with these things, a true "drivers" car, that it is very hard to touch the fun factor for the price nowdays. Even alot of the Japaneese imports with a manual trans - still FWD, IMO a proper well-balanced, RWD car is just so much more satisfying

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-09, 09:25 PM
The V6 Accords could also be had with a manual trans, right? They are pretty neat in that regard, would probably be a fun daily driver is one needed a family sedan type car. That was the problem with GM up until a few years ago, if you wanted a manual transmission car, it was either a Sunfire or a Trans Am, nothing inbetween. Perhaps thats one of the reasons I have been getting interested in other makes and types of cars, because across the board, they could be had with a manual transmission. In the case of the e30 - BMW just did so many things freakin right with these things, a true "drivers" car, that it is very hard to touch the fun factor for the price nowdays. Even alot of the Japaneese imports with a manual trans - still FWD, IMO a proper well-balanced, RWD car is just so much more satisfying

Yes, you could get a six speed manual in the V6 Accord, but only in the coupe.

I agree, a '01 GTP with a 5/6 speed manual transmission would have made it seem a lot more overall "sporty" and much more akin to a '01 Maxima SE.

Rodya234
12-09-09, 10:19 PM
That's one reason why I want an S8. I can use the tiptronic trans to change between semi-auto and regular auto whenever I feel the need. I like true manuals, but a manual in a full size luxury car is like an oxymoron.

LS1Mike
12-09-09, 11:33 PM
Dang, The 4T65E-HD in my Buick was way too SOFT. I added a shift kit. Now you know when you are changing gears. With the pulley, CAI and various other mods I have the 1st to 2nd is neck snapping. I am sure I will eventually break a hard part, such is life with my cars.
You should feel the TH-400 in my 89 1 ton. Now you know when that bad boy shifts!
The Equinox has an Aisin 5 speed. The only way I can tell it shifts if by watching the tach. Drives me insane.

V-Eight
12-09-09, 11:38 PM
That's one reason why I want an S8. I can use the tiptronic trans to change between semi-auto and regular auto whenever I feel the need. I like true manuals, but a manual in a full size luxury car is like an oxymoron.

Or to do this......



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkwiCJieMKI

orconn
12-10-09, 12:38 AM
It used to be said that the 4cyl. Hondas handled a lot better than the V-6s. That The V=6s were nose heavy which made them less balanced and worse handling than the 4 cyl. cars. Is this still true?

Jesda
12-10-09, 12:54 AM
Would that transmission not be so problematic if you maintained it thoroughly? Honda is infamous for toting their "no maintenance needed" transmissions.


The H5 problem had to do with insufficient fluid flow, insufficient cooling, and resultant overheating. Even good care and gentle driving didn't stop them from breaking.

But then a few have been driven forever without issues. Very odd.

ryannel2003
12-10-09, 01:00 AM
I don't like Honda's automatic's. I drove an '09 Accord EX V6 the other day and it was reluctant to downshift and seemed to hunt for gears. On the other hand, I love their manual's. My buddies Prelude VTEC has a short shift kid and even though I find it really notchy, it's a great shifting car and really easy to drive. It's actually the first car I learned to drive a stick on. Now I'm getting a hang of driving my bosses 911 around too :D

On GM's auto note, I don't like their 6 speed auto's. Wether it's in the Denali's, SRX's, or Acadia's they all hunt for gears and are reluctant to downshift. On the other hand, I find my 4T80-E a really great transmission. Perfect match for the Northstar.

thebigjimsho
12-10-09, 01:19 AM
I picked up my '01 Accord coupe for $22G in 5 speed, 4 cyl form. Fully loaded as a 4 cyl goes. If I wanted to have a comparably equipped V6, it would be nearly $30G.

The 4 cyl wasn't far off in acceleration and it was definitely lighter under the bonnet.

"G$"
12-10-09, 09:48 AM
Thanks for the review Jesda, great as always. By the sounds of it, I think I'd like the Accord Coupe more. It's a bigger, more luxurious, more mature version of the Prelude, especially when spec'd out in EX-V6 form.

This is my 2003 Accord EX-V6 with black leather and sunroof and 30% tint that I've had since new when I got rid of my SLS. 3.0 liter 240 HP V6 automatic. It is for sale for $7000. It just got a new honda transmission at 148k. The original tranny went due to a number of things. It has 155k on it now. It's been a great car but I now need a 4 door with AWD. It avg's 27 MPG, it went up after the new transmission for some reason.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk151/GDUB25/11IMG00064-20091122-13012.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk151/GDUB25/1summerfall08399.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk151/GDUB25/IMG00063-20091122-1300.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk151/GDUB25/IMG00067-20091122-13052.jpg

Not trying to thread jack though and this is the last site I would expect to sell it on... cheers.

Night Wolf
12-10-09, 10:05 AM
It used to be said that the 4cyl. Hondas handled a lot better than the V-6s. That The V=6s were nose heavy which made them less balanced and worse handling than the 4 cyl. cars. Is this still true?

While not Honda, I can understand this statement...

In the e30 world, there is much debate that the M42 4cyl cars handle better then the M20 6cyl, the argument is that the 4cyl is all aluminum while the 6 is cast iron, and also the 6 sticks out past the front wheels, while the 4 does not. I've got both, but neither of my cars are in tune enough to tell a difference in handling from the engine along. It makes sense though. I imagine this would probably be more pronouced on a FWD car too, since they already understeer.

I think a fully loaded 4cyl manual trans Accord would be a fun and practical daily driver tho.

Vesicant
12-10-09, 08:59 PM
Speaking of that manual Accord, I appear to own such vehicle now.

K24A4 2.4 4 cylinder with the 'TEC and a 5 speed manual.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5811/twoa.png

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-10-09, 09:06 PM
While not Honda, I can understand this statement...

In the e30 world, there is much debate that the M42 4cyl cars handle better then the M20 6cyl, the argument is that the 4cyl is all aluminum while the 6 is cast iron.

That reminds me of something. On the GTP Grand Prix's, you've got the Supercharged 3800 sitting over the front axle. On the GXP Grand Prix's, you've got that 5.3L V8 sitting over the front axle. You'd think that the GTP would be lighter in the nose, but the GXP is, only because the 5.3L is all aluminum and the 3.8 is all cast iron, aside from the aluminum intake.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-10-09, 09:07 PM
If I was going to buy an Accord Coupe, it'd be like this. San Marino Red, Beige Leather, EX (V6 preferred but not necessary), leather, etc etc.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/01-Honda-Accord-Coupe-1-OWNER-Leather-Runs-GREAT_W0QQitemZ160382183785QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_C ars_Trucks?hash=item255785e969#ht_7231wt_1167

Vesicant
12-10-09, 09:15 PM
If I was going to buy an Accord Coupe, it'd be like this. San Marino Red, Beige Leather, EX (V6 preferred but not necessary), leather, etc etc.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/01-Honda-Accord-Coupe-1-OWNER-Leather-Runs-GREAT_W0QQitemZ160382183785QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_C ars_Trucks?hash=item255785e969#ht_7231wt_1167

Nice car. Ive always admired the NSX style tail lights that generation has. Just avoid the automatics if you can.

ryannel2003
12-10-09, 11:15 PM
Came so close to getting an Accord EX V6 as my 2nd car, but I ended up with my Seville instead. They were both priced the same and even though the Seville requires more attention, it was just a better deal. More power, more comfortable, more everything. Better in every way besides build quality and reliability.

That's a nice example Chad. I'd stick with a more mute color though because I'm a speedy driver, and the red screams "Give me a ticket".

Night Wolf
12-10-09, 11:31 PM
For some reason I really like the styling of this generation 2-door Civic, it just seems much more proportional then the various 2-door Accords. I like the back end styling and tail lights. One of these with a manual would be neat.

http://image.automotive.com/f/featuredvehicles/9554613+pheader/p52356_large+2001_Honda_Civic_EX_Coupe+Front.jpg

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/vehicle-pictures/2005/honda/civic/02802031990004-480.jpg

The Si could only be had in hatchback, right?

ryannel2003
12-10-09, 11:35 PM
That is a good looking bodystyle, but Honda cheaped out on the suspension and there were alot of complaints about it not handling as good as the older models did. A former buddy of mine had a 4 door and it was a decent driving car. Not for me, but if I had to drive one it wouldn't kill me.

Yes unfortunately the Si was only offered in the hatchback bodystyle, which was ungainly IMO. This whole generation is much nicer looking than the current Civic. Never warmed up to the bodystyle.

Night Wolf
12-10-09, 11:51 PM
That is a good looking bodystyle, but Honda cheaped out on the suspension and there were alot of complaints about it not handling as good as the older models did. A former buddy of mine had a 4 door and it was a decent driving car. Not for me, but if I had to drive one it wouldn't kill me.

Yes unfortunately the Si was only offered in the hatchback bodystyle, which was ungainly IMO. This whole generation is much nicer looking than the current Civic. Never warmed up to the bodystyle.

Is the rear suspension independent or beam axle?

There is enough aftermarket support, that I'm sure the handling issue could be fixed pretty easily.

The hatchbacks just do not appeal to me - at all.

It took a while for me to like the current generation, and I still don't like the 4-door styling/tail lights, but the 2-door actually now looks pretty darn good to me. I really like the interior design - that is an analog tach and a digital speedo/fuel/temp, I think thats really neat. Also that you can get a 2-door, non hatchback in Si trim, but the Si trim comes with red inteiror lights, and I personally prefer the blue of the non-Si.

"G$"
12-11-09, 12:02 AM
Speaking of that manual Accord, I appear to own such vehicle now.

K24A4 2.4 4 cylinder with the 'TEC and a 5 speed manual.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5811/twoa.png

NICE CAR. Nice wax job too. What kind of wax do you use? The reflection is so good it makes it look a different color than black.

Night Wolf
12-11-09, 12:05 AM
I didn't even realize it was black, looked charcoal....

and if that is actually your car, and more specifically, your picture.... then DANG that is one frickin nice picture!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-11-09, 12:23 AM
For some reason I really like the styling of this generation 2-door Civic, it just seems much more proportional then the various 2-door Accords. I like the back end styling and tail lights. One of these with a manual would be neat.

http://image.automotive.com/f/featuredvehicles/9554613+pheader/p52356_large+2001_Honda_Civic_EX_Coupe+Front.jpg

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/vehicle-pictures/2005/honda/civic/02802031990004-480.jpg

The Si could only be had in hatchback, right?

A friend of mine has a '01 Civic EX Coupe just like the second one pictured, except his has the spoiler and standard fare EX wheelcovers. It's a very good, clean commuter car, but it's dull as snot to look at and ride in. It's been a while since I've ridden in it (we always take a different car), but for what he needs, it does the job perfectly.

Now from what I remember, the EX models have like 130hp, and the LX/DX models have like 115. I drove an LX Coupe like that when I worked at the Chevy dealer and holy shit was it slow, but that might have been because it was the automatic. I suppose a manual would give it a bit more zip.

A different friend's sister has an '06 Civic EX Coupe in that San Marino Red, and with the 5 speed manual, it's fairly zippy. Not quick, but peppy. I much prefer the newer model's styling...it's so expressive, youthful and fun..two things the Civics weren't until then. I didn't like it at first but it grew on me, enough where I was considering purchasing one this spring. I drove one and really liked how it moved around...it was very darty and nimble with enough power from it's 1.8L SOHC I-4. I drove an '06 Accord EX-V6 right after and liked the Civic more because it felt much zipper and was more fun to drive, even though the Accord was WAY quicker and more luxurious.

Night Wolf
12-11-09, 12:58 AM
I wouldn't even consider the car, at all, unless it had a manual.

As far as power is concerned, it's all realitive. My '92 318iC is of the heaviest e30's right at 3,000lbs, but has 4.27 gears and a superbly geared Getrag 5spd. The M42, stock, was 134hp and 127tq. The chip claims +15hp/tq, but I am not sure what ~170k miles does for performance.

It's not "fast" but it is "quick" for what it is, and thats what makes it so much fun. I always thought it was funny to see someone shifting alot in traffic, when I was in my V8 luxobarge just idling along.... but what I didn't realize was how much fun all that shifting was. With the short gearing, I can have effective use of all 5 gears, in a fun and sporty manner, by 50mph.

I actually now prefer the spirted, rev happy 4cyl.... They are fun to drive around town, and fuel efficent, and when crusing on the highway, it really dosen't matter how much extra power you have, but they are good on gas. If I am crusing at 75 or 80 in my 318i, in 5th I can give it more throttle (not wide open) and I'll still feel it push me into the seat a bit, it may be running 4000RPM, but heck it's went this long and shows no signs of slowing down. All the while getting 30+ mpg.

I keep fooling myself tho, looking at all these other cars, and they all lack something. For most of the Japaneese cars, they are FWD. I try to find everything the e30 is - that is, when looking at other cars. I just don't think that is going to happen, as the e30 is such a well rounded car to me, inside/outside styling, performance etc...

If it came to it, I'd probably get the same car that I was looking to get, before Ashleigh came along at such a great price - a 1991 318is. The convertibles have their own shares of quirks, which I think I got the worst (water leaks) taken care of for now, but a hardtop version would be a freakin fun daily driver.... heck I'm using the vert as a daily anyway.

Here is one stock, next to a stock e30M3...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2542/4100379781_0763b5206e_o.jpg

It'll wait until the Jeep is paid off.... but other then an M3, which is crazy expensive, a '91 318is is my next e30 must-have.

Vesicant
12-11-09, 07:08 AM
Hah its definitely a Graphite Grey Pearl. Barely waxed once since purchase. That reflecton/color effect is due to the photo being in HDR (3 different contrast shots blended together) and the typical Florida sunset.


Nightwolf, I think the 2002-05 EP3 Honda Civic Si is multilink rear. I was happy when I found my Accord has a really nice multilink setup- which seems fairly adjustable as well.

The K24A4 in the Accord with a 7k redline, intake side iVTEC, 160 hp and 160 lb/tq makes it easy to drive compared to some Hondas. Its kinda the stroker motor of the latest K series Honda 4's. I've owned two Integras in the past and having that extra torque and displacement is wonderful for highway excursions.

I'd kill to have an E30 M3 though. Even its counterpart, the Mercedes 190E Cosworth :drool:

"G$"
12-11-09, 08:58 AM
Hah its definitely a Graphite Grey Pearl. Barely waxed once since purchase. That reflecton/color effect is due to the photo being in HDR (3 different contrast shots blended together) and the typical Florida sunset.



didn't realize that color was offered...

Night Wolf
12-11-09, 09:45 AM
Hah its definitely a Graphite Grey Pearl. Barely waxed once since purchase. That reflecton/color effect is due to the photo being in HDR (3 different contrast shots blended together) and the typical Florida sunset.


Nightwolf, I think the 2002-05 EP3 Honda Civic Si is multilink rear. I was happy when I found my Accord has a really nice multilink setup- which seems fairly adjustable as well.

The K24A4 in the Accord with a 7k redline, intake side iVTEC, 160 hp and 160 lb/tq makes it easy to drive compared to some Hondas. Its kinda the stroker motor of the latest K series Honda 4's. I've owned two Integras in the past and having that extra torque and displacement is wonderful for highway excursions.

I'd kill to have an E30 M3 though. Even its counterpart, the Mercedes 190E Cosworth :drool:

Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3 - 16v cosworth. (the full and proper name). They are. Pretty cheap compared to e30M3's. They also have the most wins in DTM.

That Honda 4 sounds nice. I know on the BMW double VANOS, the intake side was for power while the exhaust side was more for emmissions. I've heard Honda builds a spunky 4cyl and nice manual trans.

gdwriter
12-11-09, 01:50 PM
My '99 Accord was a 4-cylinder, and I continue to believe Honda makes the best 4-cylinder engines in the world. Mine had plenty of go and got great mileage. You could hear a change in the engine sound when the V-TEC kicked in; it was quite addictive.

Still prefer the smoothness, power and sound of the Northstar, however. Even a good 4-cylinder has an unpleasant drone when accelerating during normal driving, which was probably my only complaint about that Accord.

Jesda
12-11-09, 08:11 PM
Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3 - 16v cosworth. (the full and proper name). They are. Pretty cheap compared to e30M3's. They also have the most wins in DTM.

That Honda 4 sounds nice. I know on the BMW double VANOS, the intake side was for power while the exhaust side was more for emmissions. I've heard Honda builds a spunky 4cyl and nice manual trans.

A guy over on the NICO forum just bought one of those. Coolest modern MB ever. [Sorry Chad. :p ]

Night Wolf
12-11-09, 08:33 PM
The VTEC system was pretty neat, basically two cams in one, increased torque and smooth idle, then would switch over to a more aggressive position for improved performance. The new systems are variable and typically seamless in their function.

Actually it seems like the Honda that would interest me the most would be the S2000, as it is more of a sports car - and RWD. But if I was looking at an S2000, I would probably be more inclined to go with a Miata, or Sky Redline.... or something from BMW.

I agree about the sound of a 4cyl, for the most part. V8's do sound really good. 6's can also sound good too. The Jeep 4.0 I6 with Dynomax cat-back has sort of a throaty sound, while the BMW 2.5 I6 with ANSA Sport cat-back has a much higher pitched tone that sounds like it is ready to race.

I don't know if it is just because I am used to it or what, but the M42 in the 318i really dosen't sound that bad to me, even with the stock exhaust. At low RPM it has a neat almost-burble, and at high RPM it just sounds pretty darn good, especially 6500-7000, lets you know it's a BMW. Maybe someday I'll get an ANSA sport cat-back on this car for improved sound, but that isn't a priority. Actually I rather like the sound, especially for "just" a 1.8L 4, it sounds good when accelerating, but then is rather quiet when crusing - even when it's running 4000RPM at 75, or maybe it's just that I don't hear the engine much over the wind and other noise, then music.

I'll have to get more videos from inside, with the top up, but no music playing

NDAFjWYCr7M

Then some 4cyl sound downright epic, such as the S14 in the e30M3 (video in the "now this is real driving" thread)

I was just looking thru some of my old videos posted..... man I miss the sound of the M20! Back in the mid-late 70's BMW believed in focusing and building a low displacement 6 instead of a high displacement 4, and hence the M20 was made. Mine is "just" 2.5L, but is so smooth. It now has a full tune up, and too will be getting chipped (+15hp/tq) as well as raise the rev limiter to 6900, which is just more room to play. The 4cyl in my Isuzu was 2.6L in displacement, but sounded nowhere near as good as even the BMW 1.8.

B9ZWjNMVQlQ

I suppose it's all realtive tho, if asked 4yrs ago, I would have thought I was crazy, as I was only into V8's and didn't like the higher-toned spunky lower displacement engines, but hearing either the 1.8 4 or 2.5 6 screaming at 6500RPM just kinda pumps the blood along when throwing the cars thru the twisties.

*edit - yeah, I miss the sound of a V8, I guess it's just what I'll always consider to be "correct" as it's what I grew up around. The Lincoln just had factory true dual exhaust..... but man was this very boring!

Yilx1-oUepo&NR=1

Alright, Im'a stop whoring the Honda thread now...

Night Wolf
12-11-09, 09:11 PM
A guy over on the NICO forum just bought one of those. Coolest modern MB ever. [Sorry Chad. :p ]

Heck yes! e30M3's are ridiculous prices now while the 190E 2.3-16v Cosworth can be bought in good shape for MUCH cheaper (still nearing $10k tho) They are excellent cars, and have it's own pros/cons next to the e30M3. From what I remeber, the body is more rigid, and the Cosworth head flows excellent, but the e30M3 has an overall better suspension. Still tho, I think it'd be really cool to have one.

*edit* I forgot depending on year, it was either 2.3 or 2.5, so to correct, it can be either 2.3-16v Cosworth or 2.5-16v Cosworth.

http://www.classiccarshop.co.uk/images/Mercedes%20190E%20Cosworth-Large.jpg

http://www.classiccarshop.co.uk/images/Mercedes%20190E%20Cosworth%20engine-Large.jpg

J_Odp08Hs-8

nsKTzaq3ASU&feature=related

Until then, my non-M e30's will have to do.... and they fit that bill quite nice!

Actually they were right, the e30M3 was a very harsh car, straight up, made to win races ont he track, which is why it didn't sell that well here when new... too harsh for the American public. "Unlike the latter day E36 and E46 M3's, the original E30 M3’s main purpose in life was to win races on the track, not the street. It got the job done." The e30 is not a luxury car, but a drivers car, and that stays true to the non-M versions too. I think that they were saying in that review is accurate, between the regular e30 and 190E, if you wanted luxury, go Benz, if you want no frills driving, no BMW - which is exactly why I like these things so much.

I was at the BMW dealer the other day getting an oil filter for my 318i, all the new BMW's sure are flashy and pretty.... but in all that, the size, the flash, the prestige etc.... it just seems like something is lost - big time. I saw an E46 convertible there, I think they look excellent.... but something is just off to me, and for no particular reason. As I am sitting in my old e30 vert, I was just thinking to myself "this, is what driving is about", and also had to ask myself why I would want a newer BMW, atleast now.... and I quickly realized that - I don't. It's well known on the e30 sites that the e36 is more refined and offers less feedback to the driver then the e30, and when comparing the e46 to the e36, they say the same things, so I could just imagine how different driving an e46 compared to an e30 must be. One guy on the e30 site said he traded a mint '91 318is for an e36M3, and regrets it everyday.

codewize
12-11-09, 11:22 PM
Just remember. The only reason anything has any value is because someone is willing to pay that. A car or anything else for that matter is only worth what a buyer is willing to give you.

So, if there are folks out there willing to pay $20,000 for a 10 year old $10,000 car then so be it, but there no way in hell you'll ever convince me.

That doesn't mean it's worth it it just means someone out there has to much money and what's what you have.

Night Wolf
12-11-09, 11:51 PM
Just remember. The only reason anything has any value is because someone is willing to pay that. A car or anything else for that matter is only worth what a buyer is willing to give you.

So, if there are folks out there willing to pay $20,000 for a 10 year old $10,000 car then so be it, but there no way in hell you'll ever convince me.

That doesn't mean it's worth it it just means someone out there has to much money and what's what you have.

Aha!

You sir, have unlocked the key to the muscle car inflation! Middle-aged folks with money now buying the car they once had, or always wanted when they were younger. Styling aside, as it is a personal opinion, the old tanks were slower, less reliable, didn't handle worth a darn, stopped even worse and were not as safe as newer cars.

Just wait until the current generation that is driving the prices up, up and up, gets older and stops the whole process. Once the current middle aged generation gets older/passes, the value of these cars are going to drop big time.

As an exmple, the e30M3 is to my generation what a '69 Z28 is to the generation prior. Personally I'll take the e30M3 or 190E Cosworth.

Much like Elvis stuff, he dosen't mean much, if anything to me.... yet people are still paying big bucks for his stuff - because they were around for his time. At some point the only people that are really going to be into it is either those in museums or those that are diehard collectors. Same can be said for just about all "collector" things...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-11-09, 11:58 PM
Im riding in my friends '01 Civic EX Coupe right now. Seats are ok, rear legroom is ok, not much exterior noise aside from what is transmitted thru suspension. It rides fairly rough, but it's probably ok for a small car, and warms up really fast. There, my first in car test drive review. :)

thebigjimsho
12-12-09, 04:14 AM
A guy over on the NICO forum just bought one of those. Coolest modern MB ever. [Sorry Chad. :p ]
I'd have to disagree and give that title to the 500E, built by Porsche...

Night Wolf
12-12-09, 08:12 AM
Im riding in my friends '01 Civic EX Coupe right now. Seats are ok, rear legroom is ok, not much exterior noise aside from what is transmitted thru suspension. It rides fairly rough, but it's probably ok for a small car, and warms up really fast. There, my first in car test drive review. :)

Heh, rear seat legroom is about as important to me nowadays as cup holder design.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-12-09, 10:25 AM
Heh, rear seat legroom is about as important to me nowadays as cup holder design.

Well I was riding in the back seat, which is why I typed that. It has cool cupholders too, and a good amount of storage cubbies in the center console as well. :)

Night Wolf
12-12-09, 04:18 PM
Well I was riding in the back seat, which is why I typed that. It has cool cupholders too, and a good amount of storage cubbies in the center console as well. :)

manual trans? :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-12-09, 05:56 PM
No he pussed out and got auto. He can't drive stick.

gary88
12-12-09, 06:29 PM
He can't drive stick.

His man card shall be revoked then.

orconn
12-12-09, 06:49 PM
Can't drive stick? You've got no business in a 4 cylinder! Get your four cylinder with a stick transmision and you've got loads of fun for years to come!

Night Wolf
12-12-09, 09:31 PM
Can't drive stick? You've got no business in a 4 cylinder! Get your four cylinder with a stick transmision and you've got loads of fun for years to come!

I like this guy.

gdwriter
12-13-09, 12:55 AM
His man card shall be revoked then.Exactly.

I'm OK with women who can't drive a stick (though knowing how scores points with me), but guys have no excuse, even if they normally drive an automatic.

Some cars, like my friends' Miata and Z3, must have a stick, and I've enjoyed driving them. But for day-in-day out driving, especially in the city or heavy traffic, I get tired of it after a while.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-13-09, 12:58 AM
His man card shall be revoked then.

Oh don't worry, it was. He bought the car because it's about as simple of a daily driver as you can get, reliable and great on gas. He's not a car person so it's fine.


Can't drive stick? You've got no business in a 4 cylinder! Get your four cylinder with a stick transmision and you've got loads of fun for years to come!

My other friend's sister has that '06 Civic EX Coupe and that's a 5 speed. My friend has a 5 speed Cherokee and says that the transmission in the Civic is SO much more fun to shift because it's short throw, tight and has a real nice clutch.

Night Wolf
12-13-09, 01:06 AM
All sports cars, or otherwise cars made for performance/made to be fun should have a manual. I know autos perform better when in certain types of competition (drag racing or rock crawling) but it just makes or breaks, in a big way, the overall fun of a car. That's what made my little Isuzu not only bearable, but a fun little vehicle. Something like a Civic, IMO with an auto would be really boring, but with a manual would be a fun means of general transportation.

As for driving one in traffic, I will say it really depends on the vehicle. My Jeep hardly requires second thought to drive in traffic, light clutch (in comparison to the BMW) and the 4.0 is very torquey, so I can let it idle without hitting the gas and let the clutch in/out, or just leave it out in either 1st, 2nd or even 3rd gear to control speed.

I've been driving the 318i as a daily driver, the clutch is a good bit heavier, the engine already lacks low end torque, but mine has an idle/off-idle stumble where it seems to only be running on 3cyl until the revs are up a bit, about 1500-2000RPM. Haven't really looked further into it yet, but it makes it impossible to let the clutch out at idle without stalling, so I need to keep playing the dancing tach game when moving along in traffic, or taking off from a stop. I have noticed it is a bit more work then the Jeep, but it just builds up the anticipation for the fun factor once we are moving again - it's worth it.

gdwriter
12-13-09, 01:23 AM
I drove a friend's '97 Honda Civic LX 5-speed for a few days on one of my trips back to Phoenix, and while it has a light clutch and very crisp shifter, I still got tired of it by the time I returned home. Maybe I'm old, but I can have plenty of fun driving a car with an automatic if it's responsive and has the right balance of crispness and smoothness. The Seville's auto does, so I'm happy.

I wouldn't mind a stick for an occasional fun car, but not as a daily drive. I periodically look on eBay for a first-generation Toyota Celica like the one I drove through high school and college. If there was one not too far from me at a reasonable price, I might consider it. But the ones I've seen lately have been automatics, and that's a car where it would have to be a stick.

Night Wolf
12-13-09, 01:29 AM
Also depends on the area you live in, around here the roads are pretty open, unless driving thru town. But then I also spend alot of time on the interstate going on trips, or just driving because I feel like it.

Maybe I'll grow tired of it at some point, but for now - it really completes the overall feeling of "driving" vs "being driven"

Jesda
12-13-09, 01:54 AM
The roads here can get congested, but I rarely drive during rush hour. I wonder what my Seville would be like with a manual? Compared to the 5-series, it has a relaxed personality. It might seem weird to row my own gears... or it could be totally awesome.

thebigjimsho
12-14-09, 04:33 PM
It's all perspective. Some people love jogging or even walking. Shifting in traffic is a much lighter endeavor. I think the inconvenience is all mental...

orconn
12-15-09, 04:08 PM
I have found the heavier and more powerful the car the less desirable a stick shift can be. My VW Scirocco with stick was a delight, but Corvettes I have driven with stick shift have been cumbersome and to be I honest a good five or six speed automatic would have been much better sutited to the Corvettes size and weight. However, ability to drive a stick shift, in my opinion, is a prerequisite for being a skilled and knowledgeable driver!

Aron9000
12-17-09, 01:04 AM
I have found the heavier and more powerful the car the less desirable a stick shift can be. My VW Scirocco with stick was a delight, but Corvettes I have driven with stick shift have been cumbersome and to be I honest a good five or six speed automatic would have been much better sutited to the Corvettes size and weight. However, ability to drive a stick shift, in my opinion, is a prerequisite for being a skilled and knowledgeable driver!

Corvette with an automatic=:ack:

Although I will agree with your general notion that a big vehicle like a diesel truck is much better with an automatic. Trucks are generally cumbersome with that huge shift lever coming out of the floor and the stiff ass clutch. Any turbocharged vehicle is generally quicker with an automatic because you can build some boost by loading the torque converter(holding the brake and gas at the same time).

V-Eight
12-17-09, 01:50 AM
Corvette with an automatic=:ack:

Although I will agree with your general notion that a big vehicle like a diesel truck is much better with an automatic. Trucks are generally cumbersome with that huge shift lever coming out of the floor and the stiff ass clutch. Any turbocharged vehicle is generally quicker with an automatic because you can build some boost by loading the torque converter(holding the brake and gas at the same time).

Is there no way to build boost on a manual? Probably just a clutch dump, eh?

gary88
12-17-09, 03:11 AM
Automatic turbo cars are faster because they hold boost through the shifts as opposed to manuals where you have to let off the gas, shift, then wait for the turbo/s to spool up again.

thebigjimsho
12-17-09, 12:44 PM
Automatic turbo cars are faster because they hold boost through the shifts as opposed to manuals where you have to let off the gas, shift, then wait for the turbo/s to spool up again.
Not when I'm shifting...

Night Wolf
12-17-09, 05:46 PM
^ That's what I was thinking..... h - e - double hockey sticks on the clutch and entire driveline.... but it gets you moving fast!

dirt_cheap_fleetwood
12-17-09, 06:51 PM
If you're real good you can shift without clutching at all and not burn up the synchros. Its actually easier to drive our dump truck that way, as long as you know where to line up engine rpm with output shaft speed the shifter glides from one gear to the next. It really pisses my uncle off that he can't do it but I can (he has poor hearing and can't hear the engine speed, and it doesn't have a tach). :D

Night Wolf
12-17-09, 07:15 PM
Thats called floating the gears. Truckers do it except when starting.

There is really no point to do it on a street car tho, unless you have some old u-haul with trashed synchros.

However, it is a good thing to know in case you ever need to drive your manual trans car back home/emergency etc... and something in the clutch system failed. Start it in gear then go. It's all about rev matching, applying light pressure on the shifter and she'll go in, same for downshifting except pause in neutral to bump the revs up.

Jesda
12-17-09, 08:31 PM
Thats called floating the gears. Truckers do it except when starting.

I do that when downshifting as I slow down. Now I know the name for it. Not sure how to do it when upshifting.

Night Wolf
12-17-09, 08:46 PM
I do that when downshifting as I slow down. Now I know the name for it. Not sure how to do it when upshifting.

you double clutch, or float the gears?

double clutch is press clutch in, shift to neutral, let clutch out, bump revs up (to speed up synchros for the lower gear to be shifted into), while engine revs are up, press clutch in, downshift, let clutch out.

downshifting when floating the gears is pretty much the same thing, but minus all the clutching. It requires one to shift into neutral at the same time of letting off the throttle, when the transmission would be in a no load configuration, then bliping the throttle to rev match the RPM you'd be in for the next lower gear, then shifting into the next lower gear by applying contant, but firm pressure to the shifter in the gate you want to go in, and she'll slip in when the revs are right. Upshifting when floating the gears is the same, but without the blip in neutral.