: timing car with engine in car



Pete315
12-02-09, 03:15 PM
can a 95 Eldo be timed with the engine still in car? reason why I'm asking is that I'm considering replacing my HG myself with Norms Inserts. I going to secure the chain the best I can w/o it tightening up. in case the timing chain moves, I need to know if it can be timed still with engine in car. is there a special tool to lock the chain in place? with chain locked in place, will I be able to slide the cam sprockets on and off? I did a search but was unable to get procedure of securing chain. if anyone has procedure or pics, that would be great.

Mark C
12-02-09, 04:23 PM
As soon as you release the tension on the chains (by sliding them off the cams) the tensioners down under the front cover will extend and you will not be able to recompress them without taking the front cover off. You have to figure out a way to keep those tensioners from extending, or your screwed. They make a special pair of holders to keep the tensioners compressed, but they look lik a gaint pair of pliers and you can't pull the head off with them inplace.

Submariner409
12-02-09, 06:08 PM
Great big black nylon tie-wraps. The front (chain) cover has to come off anyway, so you can put considerable tension on the chains, and then you follow the GM shop manual procedure for pinning the tensioners.

bigtone
12-02-09, 06:35 PM
If you remove all the bolts from the front cover, it will open up about an inch and a half or so at the top. You can use a steel pick or a piece of wire to release the tensioner while pushing the shoe back from the top opening in the head with a big screwdriver. There really is not alot of tension there. You can see the orange handled pick in these pics locking the tensioner (if they will upload for me). Also, make life easier by locking the engine at TDC #1 before you start taking it apart. Also lock the cams.

Krashed989
12-02-09, 06:38 PM
Rotate the engine so that it is at TDC compression on cylinder #1 (the lines on the cam sprockets with be at 90 degree angles to the valve cover gasket seating surface). Take a screwdriver and etch a line on the timing cover and the crankshaft pulley so you know where that has to be (I say this because it is very hard to take off the sprockets without having the chain jump; this is your plan B). Mark the chain and the cam sprockets. Get a piece of wood and cut it into a triangle (you may have to figure out the dimentions and make sure no splinters will fall in). Stuff it down in the chain to keep the tensioners from expanding. Take off the sprockets and remove them from the chain. Now the head can come off.

^^Certified ghetto engineering^^ haha

Pete315
12-02-09, 08:11 PM
so it looks like I would need that cam locking tool and the tool that locks the flywheel. from that picture, what are you pushing with that pick to unlock the tensioner?

tateos
12-03-09, 02:42 PM
so it looks like I would need that cam locking tool and the tool that locks the flywheel. from that picture, what are you pushing with that pick to unlock the tensioner?

The pick is engaging the tensioner release lever.

These are my opinions:

I really think the easiest thing is to drop the cradle.

If you really insist on doing it in the car, I think you should, at the minimum, remove the damper and timing case cover, at least the first time you do it, so you can inspect the timing chamber components and see what is going on in there and also to be sure you are timing the engine correctly. I have done the HG project, with the cradle and engine completely out of the car and the damper and timing case cover off, and if I had to do it again, I wouldn't do what you want to attempt. To attempt it, with no prior experience or a complete understanding of the engine timing, on an interference engine, seems very brave and adventurous to me, but maybe it'll work out OK for you.

But I still say: drop that cradle - it's really much, much easier in the long run.

bigtone
12-03-09, 06:31 PM
so it looks like I would need that cam locking tool and the tool that locks the flywheel. from that picture, what are you pushing with that pick to unlock the tensioner?

As mentioned above, the pick is holding the lever on the tensioner. You dont need any locking tools, for the cams just remove one cap and put a small piece of paper in there and reinstall the cap. For the crankshaft, I removed the starter and used a piece of scrap aluminum that had a threaded hole in it. I bolted the aluminum down using one of the starter bolt holes, then threaded another bolt through it to provide friction against the flywheel. I could force the engine to turn if I wanted to, but this method help it from turning for the most part.