: Biofuel vs Gas handout help



V-Eight
11-18-09, 09:03 PM
Got a speech tomorrow that requires a handout to be produced. My speech is based off an essay that I wrote about biofuels not being better than gas. Does anyone have some cool facts or graphics that could help demonstrate this....maybe featuring the V saying that you can have this or an ethanol car shitbox and be putting out the same emissions?

Rodya234
11-18-09, 09:36 PM
talk about the energy density of gasoline vs biofuel. I know that pure gasoline has much more MJs/kg then almost any other fuel. (which is why you get better gas mileage with real gasoline vs gasohol, E85, etc.)

V-Eight
11-18-09, 10:23 PM
Did that, was just looking for some sort of cool visual aid. Maybe I'll just make some graphs

DILLIGAF
11-18-09, 10:31 PM
Did that, was just looking for some sort of cool visual aid. Maybe I'll just make some graphs

Fire breathing is a big crowd pleaser:thumbsup:

V-Eight
11-18-09, 10:58 PM
Here's the handout I made:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/MIKLOP/hand.png

itschrome
11-18-09, 11:13 PM
its a start, but maybe you could have bio fuel hitting a bong and raping a child at the same time...

no really that's terrible. Id help you out but my laptop with all my word and graphic processors on it is dead in the water untill my new power cord shows up. oh also is not totally accurate. ethanol actually gives a boost to performance.

V-Eight
11-18-09, 11:17 PM
I know it does in some applications such as that Koenigsegg, but even in applications such as the Tahoe and mini-vans? I got that info off Edmunds. Its just supposed to be real simple as to not distract from the speech itself.

itschrome
11-18-09, 11:47 PM
I know it does in some applications such as that Koenigsegg, but even in applications such as the Tahoe and mini-vans? I got that info off Edmunds. Its just supposed to be real simple as to not distract from the speech itself.

Yeah any engine that runs both gas and e85 will have a increase in HP while running E85 vs gas. how ever as you know that comes with a price in the form of a lose in mpg. you can find these ratings out there if you look. i supose i could look too if you'd like. how ever since you demonizing E85 a positive such as hp gain probably should be left out.

V-Eight
11-18-09, 11:52 PM
I think the reason that the vehicles would get that gain is because they are optimized to run that. I'm wondering if you compare a straight gas Tahoe to an E85 version, running on their respective fuels what the numbers would be. I'm going to bed soon anyway, so since these numbers support me I'm going to stick with them. Is Edmunds not very reputable then?

itschrome
11-19-09, 12:05 AM
I think the reason that the vehicles would get that gain is because they are optimized to run that. I'm wondering if you compare a straight gas Tahoe to an E85 version, running on their respective fuels what the numbers would be. I'm going to bed soon anyway, so since these numbers support me I'm going to stick with them. Is Edmunds not very reputable then?


yeah the gain is from the higher octane ratings of e85 over standard pump gas, which allows for higher engine compression. which we all know makes higher hp. in the flex fuel engines you find in every day cars they run a higher compression and use the variable valve technologies to compensate for the use of regular gas, much in the same way a newer n*star runs on standard pump vs the older ones that need premium.

Rodya234
11-19-09, 12:06 AM
Its not actually the fuel that gives a power increase. All E85 has over gasoline is a higher octane rating, which allows you to advance the timing (or run more boost, if the engine has forced induction, like the Koenigsegg.) to a greater point then you would be able to with gasoline.


And I'd actually be sure to mention that. Being able to say something like "Biofuels do allow manufacturers to get more horsepower out of an engine, however........." makes your argument seem a lot stronger.

V-Eight
11-19-09, 12:06 AM
Hmm, I'll have to add that to my counter argument.

V-Eight
11-19-09, 12:10 AM
There's also a chance I won't have to present until next Thursday, in which case I can make some more improvements.

Krashed989
11-19-09, 05:25 PM
On top of what else has been mentioned, Ethanol is a solvent. Basically it eats away at rubber components and even some metals if left for long enough (Hardened rubber gas tank, diaphragm in the fuel pressure regulator, fuel injector O-rings). Because of it being a solvent, any carbon build up in the cylinders, if left there untreated will dissolve some of the metal. You end up with pistons and cylinder walls that look like someone took an ice pick to them. In Brazil the mechanics will not even bother with the piston rings if it's burning oil. They will just replace the engine because they know what the ethanol does.

Don't fall for the myth that it takes more energy to produce the ethanol than it puts out. Ethanol has a net energy "profit" of about 30%.
However since ethanol has grown in popularity, a lot of the amazon rain forest was converted to corn fields.

V-Eight
11-19-09, 06:44 PM
Did you take into the account all the fertilizers used? I looked at a lot of sources to make me think that wasn't a myth. Newer cars have stronger seals, but as for the carbon buildup....yep ethanol sucks

Krashed989
11-19-09, 07:08 PM
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/biomass/ethanol_myths_facts.html

You can probably use some of this article:
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=435631

V-Eight
11-19-09, 07:24 PM
I've already written the essay, this was just for the speech I did today. I'm not trusting the US department of energy, they have to put that up seeing as they just mandated that ethanol thing, don't remember the #s