: Interesting Find about MB's Warranty Program...



Playdrv4me
08-04-04, 07:04 AM
http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=2793

Msilva954
08-04-04, 10:16 AM
Just another reason why I say Mercedes is not the manufacture to beat anymore........


Where have you been????Welcome Back.

1toycad
08-04-04, 02:27 PM
Just another reason why I say Mercedes is not the manufacture to beat anymore........


Where have you been????Welcome Back.

When did Cadillac start offering free maintenance? The new STS, fully opted out, has an MSRP of around $64K. That's E-series territory. Will the price of a new STS include free maintenance?

Just curious.

Incidentally, Mercedes' Roadside Assistance program is good for the life of the car, no matter how many miles and no matter whether it is the original owner or the 100th owner. Cadillac's Roadside Assistance program ends at the expiration of the warranty period. Now that Caddy is selling Benz-priced cars, it would be nice if they provided lifetime roadside assitance as well.

Just a thought!

Msilva954
08-04-04, 07:09 PM
Id rather have a much more reliable car........then roadside assistance for life.

1toycad
08-05-04, 12:26 AM
Id rather have a much more reliable car........then roadside assistance for life.

MB's roadside assitance covers items such as flat tires, dead batteries, running ou tof gas, etc., that have nothing to do with a car's reliability. Even the world's best maintained, most reliable car will be left stranded out on the road at some point in its life. At that point, having the lifetime roadside assistance comes in REALLY handy...It's a perk that people who buy world-class cars, whether they buy them new or used, or whether the car has 10K, 100K 0r 500K miles on the clock, have a right to expect. GM should not be so chintzy when it comes to things like that. And now that the XLR and the STS are priced right up there, they too should offer lifetime roadside assitance AND free maintenance for the life of the warranty period. If rank has its privileges, then buying what many claimis a top-ranked car should come with a few privileges too.

BTW, my Caddy dealer, not GM, treats me pretty well. When my car is in for warranty service, they rent me another Cadillac (the last two times I got a Deville and then a CTS). My wife's Yukon is in for service, and the cheap GMC dealer where we bought her car only gives her a $20 a day allowance for car rental. Guess where I am going for my next car purchase???

Playdrv4me
08-05-04, 01:07 AM
Hey Silva... Been settling in the new town and getting my new new job in order. Its nice to be back.

1Toy, ive always been a big MB fan, I think you and me have talked about them quite a bit, but I am a little disappointed that alot of my German car loving friends have even told me recently that the MBs are not what they used to be... like your 420 for example. Think about it, your 420, in perfect condition with the right wheels, and the right paint color, is STILL one of the worlds most stately vehicles. In many places, people would instantly recognize that 420 as a sign of high society and estate, whereas the current 430 would just be "the guy in the big house's car".

majax
08-05-04, 01:18 AM
When did Cadillac start offering free maintenance? The new STS, fully opted out, has an MSRP of around $64K. That's E-series territory. Will the price of a new STS include free maintenance?

Just curious.

Incidentally, Mercedes' Roadside Assistance program is good for the life of the car, no matter how many miles and no matter whether it is the original owner or the 100th owner. Cadillac's Roadside Assistance program ends at the expiration of the warranty period. Now that Caddy is selling Benz-priced cars, it would be nice if they provided lifetime roadside assitance as well.

Just a thought!


Actually we do have lifetime Roadside Service, I think you only pay for like the gas delivered or what not.

Msilva954
08-05-04, 10:03 AM
The benz road side assistance covers towing too,correct.......Im just sayin Id rather not have to be towed all the time....when I spend all that money......wouldnt bother me too much cuz I buy my cars used....lol

Benz's are NOT built like they used to be..........I drive my grandfathers 500SEC once in a while....and WOW...built like a tank...leaks a lil oil....but you live with it (just a characteristic of this engine) but never a large problem.......the new ones on the other had have numerous problems related to mechanics and safety...........BMW's are far more reliable then Mercs but then again.....I cant open the passenger door in our 325ci once in a while......so thats not to safe either.

1toycad
08-05-04, 12:06 PM
Actually we do have lifetime Roadside Service, I think you only pay for like the gas delivered or what not.

I checked for my 1999 SLS (25K miles) Roadside assistance from GM available only for the life of the warranty.

MB's include 5 gallons of gas, free (last time my daughter needed it).

PLAYDR4ME...I agree with oyu 1000%. th eexterior of th enew S series reminds me of a Buick. Not that a Buick is a bad thing, it is just that if I want a BUICK, I'd buy a BUICK and put the money I save (over buying a new S series) to a better use.

I like the style of the new E series though. and the E500 is a hell of a nice car.

I also agree with you, as far as BMW is concerned. I was driving alongisde a 740iL (the model before the new one, I don't know what year they cahnged to the new style) and it looked absolutely gorgeous. Plus, it was instantly recognizable as a luxury car standard. The new 7 and 5 series are UGLY. The new style looks a little bit better int he 5 series, because it is a smaller car, but it is stillugly (the headlights and taillight assembly looks SO ricer).

If I had the money to buy a new expensive car (instead of paying for college tuition fo rmy kids :lildevil: ) I would buy (in this order) an XLR, or a E500, or a V8 STS or a CTS-V. WOW, I can't believe I have 3 Caddies in the list. You guys have brainswashed me :rolleyes:

Caddy Man
08-05-04, 03:41 PM
Actually we do have lifetime Roadside Service, I think you only pay for like the gas delivered or what not.
over when warranty is over

Ralph
08-07-04, 07:50 AM
Lets let some Benz owners say a few words about their vehicles? Glad you are back Ian!!!

http://www.mercedes-benz-usa.com/mlclass.php

feel free to click on E-Class, although I agree on the styling, I like it. The ML class seems to have the most serious issues with owners, and I've never heard of Cadillacs or Lincolns having troubles as bad as some of these. OK 1toy, keep it "above the belt." :devil:

Ralph
08-07-04, 08:56 PM
When did Cadillac start offering free maintenance? The new STS, fully opted out, has an MSRP of around $64K. That's E-series territory. Will the price of a new STS include free maintenance?]

Well, my Dad gets free maintenance for 4 years or 80,000 kms, the duration of the entire warrenty and it is free. I'm talking of oil changes, tire rotation of course. It might include more, but I would have to ask him. Maybe in the U.S. you don't get this? Not to mention the terrific rebates and incentives you can get on a Cadillac. Try that at Mercedes and they'll probably laugh at you. I bet the Mercedes dealer will not haggle, or send you two free sets of commerative pin sets for the 100th anniversary just for talking to them.

We are a GM family with the exception of the recent Grand Marquis I had, and no one in our family was ever treated badly at any GM dealership for any division. When you read some of the Benz comments, especially about dealerships and how they treated owners, you have to wonder, and yes it may be hard to swallow for some Benz enthuisiasts, but facts are facts, the new ones are not as good as the old. (with Cadillac, the opposite seems to be true.)

1toycad
08-08-04, 01:02 AM
Lets let some Benz owners say a few words about their vehicles? Glad you are back Ian!!!

http://www.mercedes-benz-usa.com/mlclass.php

feel free to click on E-Class, although I agree on the styling, I like it. The ML class seems to have the most serious issues with owners, and I've never heard of Cadillacs or Lincolns having troubles as bad as some of these. OK 1toy, keep it "above the belt." :devil:

You know Ralph, you can find websites on just about every subject.

To read about people whining about crappy GM cars, especially Caddies, go to cadillacsucks.net (or something to that effect, since I can't recall the exact domain name). Scroll through that and you will find tons of people whining about how crappy their Caddies are and how they will NEVER buy one. In fact, many of the links at caddilac sucks come back to this very website.

MB offers lifetime roadside assistance, that's good for the life of the car, regardless of how many owners the car has had iits lifetime. Caddy does not. Caddy should offer the same. I don't know what we are quibbling about (or aboot but you Ralph :lildevil: ). Hell, Caddy shold offer a 100K mile warranty like Hyundai does. the more they do for the consumer, the better off we would all be. Maybe Caddy does not offer lifetime roadside assitance because they are worried at GM that they will spend too much money towing disabled Caddies.

Incidentally, I am in a particular sour mood about Caddy. The RainSense in my Seville is acting up. Now when I move the stalk to INT (the correct setting for the RainSense, the headlights go on, even during daytime. Headlights are only supposed to go on when it gets dark, regardless of RainSense setting.

I left the car at the dealer on Friday and the wll look at it. The dealer is very nice, I have no complaints, they put me in a new Deville rental and will keep paing for the full price of the rental as long as the car is inthe shop. So dealer--thumbs up; Caddy--thums down.

BTW, the Deville, even the stripped-down rental model, is a pretty nice ride. It is big and comfy inisde. I can only imagine how nice the DTS rides.

1toycad
08-08-04, 01:19 AM
Lets let some Benz owners say a few words about their vehicles? Glad you are back Ian!!!

http://www.mercedes-benz-usa.com/mlclass.php

feel free to click on E-Class, although I agree on the styling, I like it. The ML class seems to have the most serious issues with owners, and I've never heard of Cadillacs or Lincolns having troubles as bad as some of these. OK 1toy, keep it "above the belt." :devil:

You know Ralph, you can find websites on just about every subject.

If you want to read about people who are pissed off about their Caddies and who thinkt hat Caddies are the biggest POS rolling on wheels, then go to:

www.cadillacsucks.net


The site is replete with comments about (or aboot for you guys in the Northern provinces :lildevil: ) all the problems with Cadillacs. For Seville owners there are whole sections about the infamous wheel shake at speeds over 65 mph. For other Cadillac owners there are also whole sections on the rust-through problems. A $50+ car should not be having these kinds of problems

To read how these people whine about crappy GM cars are (especially Caddies) a rational person would NEVER buy a Caddy. The Cadillac website is full of comments (some even linked to this website) from people whining about how crappy their Caddies are and how they will NEVER buy one.

MB offers lifetime roadside assistance that's good for the life of the car, regardless of how many owners the car has had over its lifetime. Caddy does not. Caddy should offer the same. Is not a question of which car is better than the other. That's an issue that's better left to the Caddy vs. Benz thread.

the issue is that Benz offers a perk that Caddy does not. If Caddy wants to attract foreign car buyers, especially Benz, then they will have o step up to the plate and offer the same perks. It is really that simple.

I don't know what we are quibbling about (or aboot). Hell, Caddy should offer a 100K mile warranty like Hyundai does. The more GM and Caddy do consumers, the better off we would all be. Maybe Caddy does not offer lifetime roadside assitance because they are worried at GM that they will spend too much money towing disabled Caddies.

Incidentally, I am in a particular sour mood about Caddy. The RainSense in my Seville is acting up--again. Now when I move the stalk to INT (the correct setting for the RainSense) the headlights go on, even during daytime. Headlights are only supposed to go on when it gets dark, regardless of RainSense setting.

I left the car at the dealer on Friday and they will look at it. The dealer is very nice, I have no complains. They put me in a new Deville rental and will keep paying for the full price of the rental as long as the car is in the shop. So dealer--thumbs up; Caddy--thumbs down.

BTW, the Deville, even the stripped-down rental model, is a pretty nice ride. It is big and comfy inisde. I can only imagine how nice the DTS rides.

Ralph
08-08-04, 01:19 AM
[QUOTE]You know Ralph, you can find websites on just about every subject.[QUOTE]



Not just any subject. That is an official Mercedes (consumer warnings for serious problems) website for genuine complaints of Benz owners, you cannot discount it because there are other sites about cars on the net.



[QUOTE]To read about people whining about crappy GM cars, especially Caddies[QUOTE]



I take something like that a little personal, but I guess we know how you feel about Caddies now? :shhh:



[QUOTE] I don't know what we are quibbling about[QUOTE]



Just defending the car make I came to love because I just see a different side of the coin then you. We have had no problems with our GM cars. I cannot say the same for the Chryslers and Mercury I've had.



[QUOTE]Incidentally, I am in a particular sour mood about Caddy. The RainSense in my Seville is acting up. Now when I move the stalk to INT (the correct setting for the RainSense, the headlights go on, even during daytime. Headlights are only supposed to go on when it gets dark, regardless of RainSense setting.[QUOTE]


I guess it's better than an ML starting on fire for no reason? :lildevil:

Ralph
08-08-04, 01:35 AM
If you want to read about people who are pissed off about their Caddies and who thinkt hat Caddies are the biggest POS rolling on wheels, then go to:

www.cadillacsucks.net


OK I visited your little Canadian site there and all I saw were feeble arguements about rust (nothing shocking about that in Canada since they put more salt on the streets than snow!) A car can rust here is a couple of years, let alone 50k. :rolleyes2 Perhaps people should start to care aboot their cars and actually wash them instead of complaining! I have a 1980 Pontiac that's been through 23 winters and NO RUST. They were complaining aboot sales of GM cars compared to Toyota. (ya, real serious consumer safety issue there. :hmm: ) Other than the usual shakes, rattles and rolls, they had the nerve to complain aboot tire wear at high mileage!! Give me a break. You cannot pay me to buy a NEW Mercedes Benz and not feel concerned the thing will ignite (ML) or the electronics will short out the dash (S and E- Class complaints) Sorry, but the issues with the Benz seem much more serious.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not argueing with you I thought we were exchanging thoughts and beliefs from personal experience, and the experiences of others?

Ralph
08-08-04, 01:42 AM
the issue is that Benz offers a perk that Caddy does not. If Caddy wants to attract foreign car buyers, especially Benz, then they will have o step up to the plate and offer the same perks. It is really that simple.


I think they have bent over backwards to attract foreign buyers, and the quality ratings reflect this, and judging by the link I gave I'd say Cadillac got a lot more customers lately. Can you negociate 15k off the price of a new S-class, including tax???????? I know someone who did with a new DTS. If this isn't bending over backwards, I'm sorry, I don't know what is, eh?

Ralph
08-08-04, 02:16 AM
the issue is that Benz offers a perk that Caddy does not. If Caddy wants to attract foreign car buyers, especially Benz, then they will have o step up to the plate and offer the same perks. It is really that simple.

You mean the perk that was the purpose of this thread?? Namely that Mercedes are DROPPING free scheduled maintenance? Since Cadillac does offer Roadside assistance (perhaps not for life, but it will be there in the future) your gripe seems irrellavent and it evens things out a bit IMHO.

According to my latest Cadillac brochure, Cadillac should reimburse you for the rental car. Cadillac also offers trip planning, roadside assistance for towing, fuel delivery, jump starts, or flat tire, or lock out situations. Also offered is trip interruption protection, ensures you are reimbursed for meals, hotel, and alternate transportation expenses.

If your Seville is still under warrenty, the rental or ? should be covered?

1toycad
08-08-04, 02:45 AM
Not just any subject. That is an official Mercedes (consumer warnings for serious problems) website for genuine complaints of Benz owners, you cannot discount it because there are other sites about cars on the net.


That only goes to show that Benz is far more honest with its consumers than Caddy is with its own consumers.

I take something like that a little personal, but I guess we know how you feel about Caddies now? :shhh:

I odn't see why you would. People on that website DO complain abouttheir crappy GM cars.


Just defending the car make I came to love because I just see a different side of the coin then you. We have had no problems with our GM cars. I cannot say the same for the Chryslers and Mercury I've had.

That's the difference between you and me. I love people, I love ideals, I love my country, etc...I don't love a car make. I happen to prefer certain brands over others. I prefer Sony over Panasonic or Samsung; I prefer Canon over Nikon or MInolta. I prefer Mercedes over other cars. But I don't love sony or Canon or Mercedes.

I prefer Mercedes, but the moment their cars begin to let me down--I'll look for something else.

I guess it's better than an ML starting on fire for no reason? :lildevil:

My mechanic has a ML320. Three professional associates own ML320. One firned own a new ML350 and another owns an ML500. None has caught fire. All are happy campers. Go figure.

I don't know how this went from a comment about the fact that Cadillac does not offer the same kind of comprehensive roadside assitance as Benz does to another (yet again) debate about which car is better.

Ralph, wouldn't you agree that it would be GOOD THING if Caddy's roadside assitance extended to the life of the car, regardless of how old the car was or howmany owners it had gone through? Don't you think that such a comprehensive program would be a GODD thhing for buyers of used Caddies? Don't you think that EVERY buyer of a Caddy, whether new orold would like to have such a program? don't you think that such a comprehensive program would prop up the plummeting resale value of Caddies?

Am I missing something here? GM is a HUGE corporation, the least it can do for buyers of its top of the line cars (where they make the most profit) is throw us a bone and extend the roadside assitance program to the life of the car--just like Benz does.

Incidentally, I agree with you that the problem with the RainSense is a minor annoyance compared with cars catching on fire. Like the Northstars with the defective fuel rail. Or the Caddies with the bouncing front tires.

I guess the real problem with the RainSense is that it may presage the coming of the electrical gremlins that plague so many Caddies.

Oh well.

1toycad
08-08-04, 02:54 AM
You mean the perk that was the purpose of this thread?? Namely that Mercedes are DROPPING free scheduled maintenance? Since Cadillac does offer Roadside assistance (perhaps not for life) your gripe seems irrellavent and it evens things out a bit.

According to my latest Cadillac brochure, Cadillac should reimburse you for the rental car. Cadillac also offers trip planning, roadside assistance for towing, fuel delivery, jump starts, or flat tire, or lock out situations. Also offered is trip interruption protection, ensures you are reimbursed for meals, hotel, and alternate transportation expenses.

If your Seville is still under warrenty, the rental or ? should be covered?

Ralph, you really ought to stop staring at that Natty mouse pad and read my posts. :lildevil:

Benz offers the exact same roadside assistance service as Caddy. Trip interruption, free 5 gallons of gas, alternative transportation, etc. etc. etc. BUT Benz offers it for the LIFE of the car (not just th elife of the warranty) and it offers the service to ANY Benz owner. It does not matter if you are the original owner or the 100th owner of the car. You are still covered.

The repairs to my Seville are under warranty. The dealer had to fight with Caddy to fix the car under warranty. The dealer rented me a car, a new Deville (I guess you missed that part of my post).

BTW, Benz's "free" maintenance was a joke. Those long oil intervals can't be good for an engine, even one using Mobil 1. So I am glad they are dropping it. Oil should be changed hot and it should be changed often.

Well, I guess I should go to bed now. It's getting late.........

Ralph
08-08-04, 03:16 AM
[QUOTE]That only goes to show that Benz is far more honest with its consumers than Caddy is with its own consumers.[QUOTE]

If that's true it worked! It scared the crap out of me! I'll NEVER buy a Benz, perhaps a BMW in the far distant future, but not Benz. Maybe some things should be kept quiet. :hmm: Maybe Cadillac is smart, they keep things quiet. :devil:


[QUOTE]That's the difference between you and me. I love people, I love ideals, I love my country, etc...I don't love a car make. I happen to prefer certain brands over others. I prefer Sony over Panasonic or Samsung; I prefer Canon over Nikon or MInolta. I prefer Mercedes over other cars. But I don't love sony or Canon or Mercedes.[QUOTE]


So that means I don't love people, ideals, or my country :hmm: Where we do differ is that if I love my car, I may at times say to myself that I do "love Cadillacs." Isn't that the same thing? I can love a car make if I have had positive quality experiences with it. (you don't love Mercedes?) To use another example elsewhere in this thread, perhaps people should LOVE their cars, the make, it's heritage, their children, their cameras, watches, houses etc, then they might get washed or treated better and properly cared for?


[QUOTE]I prefer Mercedes, but the moment their cars begin to let me down--I'll look for something else.[QUOTE]



OMG, something I posted must have sunk in??? :p



[QUOTE]My mechanic has a ML320. Three professional associates own ML320. One firned own a new ML350 and another owns an ML500. None has caught fire. All are happy campers. Go figure.[QUOTE]



Not JUST fires, but many serious issues besides this, take a good look.



[QUOTE]I don't know how this went from a comment about the fact that Cadillac does not offer the same kind of comprehensive roadside assitance as Benz does to another (yet again) debate about which car is better.[QUOTE]



Because you like to point out the fact it is not a lifetime with GM, however, Benz is considering getting rid of their free maintenance? Right? I can't knock Benz a little, while you knock Cadillac? :hmm: Also I posted that link that seems to irritate you and all it has are honest, Mercedes owner's comments and their horror stories. (not all that uncommon from the comments made on Ians link-consumer complaints)



[QUOTE]Ralph, wouldn't you agree that it would be GOOD THING if Caddy's roadside assitance extended to the life of the car, regardless of how old the car was or howmany owners it had gone through? Don't you think that such a comprehensive program would be a GODD thhing for buyers of used Caddies? Don't you think that EVERY buyer of a Caddy, whether new orold would like to have such a program? don't you think that such a comprehensive program would prop up the plummeting resale value of Caddies?[QUOTE]



It may be a good idea at that, but I have to wonder if it will help the steep depreciation at all. I think Cadillac's reputation for the current good quality ratings will go further for that cause. I also think that it would not be very profitable for any car company to offer free lifetime RSA. Perhaps because of all the money Mercedes is losing right now trying to get back up to the quality they once were, it is cost effective for them to cut the free maintenance because they have to apparently cut from somewhere to maintain profits?



[QUOTE]Incidentally, I agree with you that the problem with the RainSense is a minor annoyance compared with cars catching on fire.[QUOTE]



I certainly do hope they can properly fix your rainsense wipers. I know how annoying repairs can be, or when something is out of order because you "love" your car (hopefully) and it is a stressfull time indeed. I certainly wouldn't want you or anyone else to be seriously injured in any way because you bought a new Mercedes Benz with the infamous steering failures, for example. ;)

Ralph
08-08-04, 03:27 AM
Benz offers the exact same roadside assistance service as Caddy. Trip interruption, free 5 gallons of gas, alternative transportation, etc. etc. etc. BUT Benz offers it for the LIFE of the car (not just th elife of the warranty) and it offers the service to ANY Benz owner. It does not matter if you are the original owner or the 100th owner of the car. You are still covered.

The repairs to my Seville are under warranty. The dealer had to fight with Caddy to fix the car under warranty. The dealer rented me a car, a new Deville (I guess you missed that part of my post).

I would LOVE a Natty mouse pad, can I borrow yours, or send me an extra one that you have???

Actually I didn't miss anything, I just don't like to repeat everything I am comenting on, and it was more than logical, I assumed, as well as already implied. Also, when I am half-way through responding to your statement, I'm not wiping it out by going back to the exact post to check if it was a Deville, or a Lada. The point was is that it was a RENTAL car, and you should be reimbursed. The point of Ians post originally was the elimination of the free maintanance. Then you started implying how crappy Cadillacs were by comparison. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

1toycad
08-08-04, 10:19 AM
I would LOVE a Natty mouse pad, can I borrow yours, or send me an extra one that you have???

Actually I didn't miss anything, I just don't like to repeat everything I am comenting on, and it was more than logical, I assumed, as well as already implied. Also, when I am half-way through responding to your statement, I'm not wiping it out by going back to the exact post to check if it was a Deville, or a Lada. The point was is that it was a RENTAL car, and you should be reimbursed. The point of Ians post originally was the elimination of the free maintanance. Then you started implying how crappy Cadillacs were by comparison. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Show me where, BEFORE you got involved in this last round of Caddy vs. Benz did I write that Caddies are crap. Show me!

I initially mentioned that Caddy offers roadside assitance for the lifetime of the warranty and Benz offers it for the life of the car. That's a simple statement of fact. It does not imply that one is crappy and the other is not. Only if a person with a extremely thin skin would reach that conclusion. No one else who read the post seemed to reach that conclusion.

As for callling Cadillac crap, that was not me, that's what the people who posted at www.cadillacsucks.net posted. Go take it up with all the people who wrote that they would never, ever buy a Caddy.

BTW, the people who wrote reviews complaining about Caddies, especially the Seville, were funny. Most wrote that they loved the Seville's styling but the car was crap otherwise. It is like a man married to a beautiful woman, he loves the way she looks, but he hates the fact that she is a money-sucking whore.

Look, you love Caddes, and that's fine with me. I'll drive whatever I can afford to drive that's stylish, comfortable, safe, reliable. In all the years of owning Benzes, not one has given me any kind of problem--AT ALL--no fires, no steering problem, no brake problems, no tranny problem,no electrical problems. They have been the least expensive cars to operate that I've ever owned.

I bought this Seville from my Dad, who bought it new. Due to my mom's health she could not ride in the Seville (too low to comfortably get in and out). When he went to sell it, he realized what a big hit he was going to take for depreciation, Even with a fully optioned car (well, it is missing a sun roof) and only 10K miles, he was still going to take a big hit. So I bought the car from him and paid him more than he would have gotten in the market. I'll probably pass it along to whichever one of my kids want it. But right now, the two who are in line to get their driver's license don't want it. They say they don't like the way car looks or rides. I won't sell it, because I don't want to take a bigger hit in depreciation, so I am stuck with it.

As for the RainSense, I am sure that they will get around to fix it. In the meantime I am drving a free Deville, so I am in no hurry.

Ralph, I admire your dedication to a make of car. You are the kind of person that Bob Lutz and the other people at GM love. The least they should do is send a Christmas card every Christmas.

When I come across a Natty mousepad I'll send it to you. Unless you want my Zeta pad. Incidentally, I just saw The Village. I think it is a great movie (most people did no like it). The girl who plays the Ivy character is beautiful. But she is Ron Howard's daughter, so lusting after her would be like lusting after Opie :drinker

Msilva954
08-08-04, 12:56 PM
Well settle it now......Benz gives so much assistance cuz they know their cars are crappy.......now we are all happy:)

Playdrv4me
08-08-04, 02:42 PM
Well settle it now......Benz gives so much assistance cuz they know their cars are crappy.......now we are all happy:)

LOL!! Thats pretty funny. MSilva, have you guys had that 325s door looked at?? That is crazy man I certainly would make them take care of that one. I have had ONE major problem with my 3 and that was a whiny differential. Something I really only noticed because I came from the Jeep Grand Cherokee world and they have massive diff problems with the Dana 35 and 44 AL gears. Other than that id say I drive this poor thing around like it was a Taurus and it never complains. I almost got rid of it but then realized it would be a big mistake, this little guy is just great to me.

Nice to see ya again too Ralph!

1toy, Id have to agree with you on styling again with BMW. While I love the E500 and ESPECIALLY the E55AMG, I am getting this feeling that BMW and Mercedes just ran out of clothes and are standing out there naked wondering what the hell happens next with these bulbous and oddshaped new designs in the S Class, 5 series, 7 series and upcoming 3 series. I really think somewhere along the way they both began to stumble when they tried to become more American while still retaining their teutonic home traits, now its just becoming a big jumbled mess.

A note about the ML, and in fairness, about the X5 as well. BOTH of these vehicles were EXPERIMENTS by MB and BMW at being the first vehicles MFD in the UNITED STATES, thats right, they are both American Made. In the first years they both had many many problems, the ML unfortunately moreso than the X5. Because of this, and the fact that its getting pretty old now, the ML has gotten terrible ratings and reviews. I think Merc will hopefully correct all of this when the next generation comes out. I am taking a wait and see attitude on it.

1toycad
08-08-04, 03:48 PM
Well settle it now......Benz gives so much assistance cuz they know their cars are crappy.......now we are all happy:)

No...Benz gives the longer roadside assistance because they KNOW people will not need it, thus it costs Benz nothing to provide the service.

Caddy does not give it because they know people will use it ALL the time thu sit will bankrupt the company.

Can we all agree on one thing though: it would be a GOOD THING if car companies gave longer, more comprehensive, fully featured warranties. I remember the days of 12 months - 12K new car warranties. YIKES! :rant2:

Peace out...I am going to put some miles on my rental Deville!

RBraczyk
08-08-04, 03:54 PM
MB's roadside assitance covers items such as flat tires, dead batteries, running ou tof gas, etc., that have nothing to do with a car's reliability. Even the world's best maintained, most reliable car will be left stranded out on the road at some point in its life. At that point, having the lifetime roadside assistance comes in REALLY handy...It's a perk that people who buy world-class cars, whether they buy them new or used, or whether the car has 10K, 100K 0r 500K miles on the clock, have a right to expect. GM should not be so chintzy when it comes to things like that. And now that the XLR and the STS are priced right up there, they too should offer lifetime roadside assitance AND free maintenance for the life of the warranty period. If rank has its privileges, then buying what many claimis a top-ranked car should come with a few privileges too.

BTW, my Caddy dealer, not GM, treats me pretty well. When my car is in for warranty service, they rent me another Cadillac (the last two times I got a Deville and then a CTS). My wife's Yukon is in for service, and the cheap GMC dealer where we bought her car only gives her a $20 a day allowance for car rental. Guess where I am going for my next car purchase???

Your wrong. My truck has never been stranded alongside of the road. Ever in its 281000 mile lifespan. WHen it blew its transmission, the back window was covered in transmission fluid and it still drove for 150 miles untill it wouldn't shift and we drove it 15 miles to the dealership at 25 miles an hour. It has had one flat tire and it was in our driveway. Our dealership treats us well and does good work. We don't need rentals but regardless, not every vehicle is going to get stranded alongside the road. Come to think of it, my family has never had a vehicle die on the road. My deville Drove 30 miles without its serpentine belt and it was all good afterwards. All our cars have been american except for our audi's which were just expensive when stuff went wrong. Most american cars will never leave you stranded as long as you take care of them.

Ralph
08-08-04, 04:03 PM
Show me where, BEFORE you got involved in this last round of Caddy vs. Benz did I write that Caddies are crap. Show me!

I initially mentioned that Caddy offers roadside assitance for the lifetime of the warranty and Benz offers it for the life of the car. That's a simple statement of fact. It does not imply that one is crappy and the other is not. Only if a person with a extremely thin skin would reach that conclusion. No one else who read the post seemed to reach that conclusion.

As for callling Cadillac crap, that was not me, that's what the people who posted at www.cadillacsucks.net posted. Go take it up with all the people who wrote that they would never, ever buy a Caddy.

BTW, the people who wrote reviews complaining about Caddies, especially the Seville, were funny. Most wrote that they loved the Seville's styling but the car was crap otherwise. It is like a man married to a beautiful woman, he loves the way she looks, but he hates the fact that she is a money-sucking whore.

Look, you love Caddes, and that's fine with me. I'll drive whatever I can afford to drive that's stylish, comfortable, safe, reliable. In all the years of owning Benzes, not one has given me any kind of problem--AT ALL--no fires, no steering problem, no brake problems, no tranny problem,no electrical problems. They have been the least expensive cars to operate that I've ever owned.

I bought this Seville from my Dad, who bought it new. Due to my mom's health she could not ride in the Seville (too low to comfortably get in and out). When he went to sell it, he realized what a big hit he was going to take for depreciation, Even with a fully optioned car (well, it is missing a sun roof) and only 10K miles, he was still going to take a big hit. So I bought the car from him and paid him more than he would have gotten in the market. I'll probably pass it along to whichever one of my kids want it. But right now, the two who are in line to get their driver's license don't want it. They say they don't like the way car looks or rides. I won't sell it, because I don't want to take a bigger hit in depreciation, so I am stuck with it.

As for the RainSense, I am sure that they will get around to fix it. In the meantime I am drving a free Deville, so I am in no hurry.

Ralph, I admire your dedication to a make of car. You are the kind of person that Bob Lutz and the other people at GM love. The least they should do is send a Christmas card every Christmas.

When I come across a Natty mousepad I'll send it to you. Unless you want my Zeta pad. Incidentally, I just saw The Village. I think it is a great movie (most people did no like it). The girl who plays the Ivy character is beautiful. But she is Ron Howard's daughter, so lusting after her would be like lusting after Opie :drinker

OK, stop lusting over the Catherine Zeta-Jones mousepad, I said you "implied" Cadillacs are crap by COMPARISON. It is evident how you feel about Cadilacs and I'm sorry (polite Canuck) that you feel you are "stuck" with it. As for the comments on cadillacsucks.net, I commented on the lameness of their problems in post #16, in case you missed it. Those problems were not that serious.

If you are happy driving your German car, GREAT, I'm happy you're happy, but I want to stress that Cadillacs are in no way an inferior product simply because they seem to not offer more "perks" than Merc. I respect you, but you seem to continually deflect attention from the fact that the purpose of this thread was the elimination of free maintenance by Mercedes, and all the unhappy owners and their comments on that subject.

It just seems to me that you cannot swallow the "fact" that the Benz problems seem much more serious than anything I've seen for the newer Cadillacs. I'm not too thin-skinned where I cannot acknowledge the obvious, logical truth. Am I the only one to be concerned over what I've read involving the official Consumer Warnings for MB? I am big enough to be able to admit that I don't care for the 1980's fwd Cadillacs due to their troublesome problems I've read here. Why are Benz owners above that?

I'll ask a third time, would Mercedes Benz dealers be generous enough to offer as much as a $15,000 dollar discount including taxes? (around $11,000 U.S.) Because from what I've read of Benz owners, you'd better wear a suit and tie to even approach them. Is this true? I guess I'd rather have courtesy and good service during the warrenty period than what I'm hearing from Benz owners. How has your experience at the Mercedes dealership been? Are they friendly, courteous, do they have prompt service? Other than the roadside assistance, how does Mercedes Benz go "out of their way" to win people over? Here is your chance to ellighten all the thin-skinned people who love their Cadillacs as to why we should all sell our Caddies and buy a Benz.

I'm afraid I haven't even heard of that movie, but perhaps one day there will be one with Nat and Catherine together. :bighead:

Ralph
08-08-04, 04:07 PM
Your wrong. My truck has never been stranded alongside of the road. Ever in its 281000 mile lifespan. WHen it blew its transmission, the back window was covered in transmission fluid and it still drove for 150 miles untill it wouldn't shift and we drove it 15 miles to the dealership at 25 miles an hour. It has had one flat tire and it was in our driveway. Our dealership treats us well and does good work. We don't need rentals but regardless, not every vehicle is going to get stranded alongside the road. Come to think of it, my family has never had a vehicle die on the road. My deville Drove 30 miles without its serpentine belt and it was all good afterwards. All our cars have been american except for our audi's which were just expensive when stuff went wrong. Most american cars will never leave you stranded as long as you take care of them.

My Dad's 1979 minty Nova and Bonanza truck have NEVER broke down!! They are still on the original alternators, starters, etc. It took 19 years before my 1980 Pontiac with a quarter milion kms needed a tow! And the tow was because I connected the temp sender for a gauge with the fan switch and it overheated, so it was my fault and not GM's!

No one can convince me that American cars are inferior because I see so many 1970's cars runing around still, and I rarely see an old Benz, Beemer, or Volvo from that decade.

Ralph
08-08-04, 04:12 PM
.I am going to put some miles on my rental Deville!


Just be careful you don't push it too hard! Those Cadillacs tend to have engines that explode, while the transmission falls out, and the CCR light blinds you at night on the highway. :p Or so I've heard. :rolleyes2 Make sure you take your cellular phone with you because chances are the ONSTAR will fail too, and you'll have to push it home.

Ralph
08-08-04, 04:16 PM
Nice to see ya again too Ralph!


You inelson Addy must have changed when you moved, pm me your new one. :)

Ralph
08-08-04, 04:21 PM
Can we all agree on one thing though: it would be a GOOD THING if car companies gave longer, more comprehensive, fully featured warranties. I remember the days of 12 months - 12K new car warranties. YIKES!

I agree, that might be a good thing, however, what do you think the chances are that any other car manufacturer will offer that since MB is eliminating it, there is no competition for that offering?

Ralph
08-10-04, 12:45 AM
An apology to 1ToyCad. I certainly don't want you to leave the Forum over something like this or anything, etc. I'm sure our beliefs still stand, and I can respect that. We'll call it even for that Canadian auto parts fiasco we had. ;) When I do run across that Zeta-Jones mousepad, I'll be sure to get your addy. :) Nuff said?

And remember boys and girls,

"Canada buys more than half of all U.S. exports"

"Canada also buys more than 3 times the U.S. goods than Japan."

source:

http://canadianally.com/ca/

Msilva954
08-10-04, 12:58 AM
No...Benz gives the longer roadside assistance because they KNOW people will not need it, thus it costs Benz nothing to provide the service.

Caddy does not give it because they know people will use it ALL the time thu sit will bankrupt the company.

Peace out...I am going to put some miles on my rental Deville!

I have to totally disagree......it is a FACT...that Benz is much less reliable when it compares to Cadillac or just about any other brand......you have a much much higher chance of being stranded in a Benz then in a Caddy. Benz is just always there to pick you up or help you out a little when something happens........cmon.....my car insurance includes that crap that benz offers....and if you look at your policy I bet yours does too.......road side assistance is DOODOO SQUAT........I pay $7 a yr to include roadside assistance and that includes ride..gas..and tow...

Msilva954
08-10-04, 01:01 AM
LOL!! Thats pretty funny. MSilva, have you guys had that 325s door looked at?? That is crazy man I certainly would make them take care of that one. I have had ONE major problem with my 3 and that was a whiny differential..

Yea, we had the door looked at about a year ago and they claimed they opened it 200 times and could never replicate the problem........well its starting again....haha.....we never have had tooo many problems with ours either...just small reoccuring ones..like speakers and transmission jump at 40mph....fixed by reseting trans.......but my mother wants to keep it for the long haul (100,000) probably and we are in the process of looking for a new warrenty......(wont keep it without one)

1toycad
08-10-04, 01:59 AM
I have to totally disagree......it is a FACT...that Benz is much less reliable when it compares to Cadillac or just about any other brand......you have a much much higher chance of being stranded in a Benz then in a Caddy. Benz is just always there to pick you up or help you out a little when something happens........cmon.....my car insurance includes that crap that benz offers....and if you look at your policy I bet yours does too.......road side assistance is DOODOO SQUAT........I pay $7 a yr to include roadside assistance and that includes ride..gas..and tow...

How many Benzes have you owned over your lifetime?

What are the numbers that support your FACTS.

I've owned Benzes, ranging from a 1967 250SE to a 1991 420SEL (the last one with over 250K miles on the odometer). Not once, not ever, have any of my Benzes left me stranded on the road. No burning engines (like the Northstars equipped withe the fire prone fuel rails), no dead batteris, no disabled fuel pumps. NOTHING. NADA, ZILCH, ZIPPO.

On the other hand, I have also owned 4 Cadillacs. From a 1982 Cimarron to my current 1999 SLS (with only 25K miles on the odo).

They have left me stranded onthe road on a number of ocassions with a range of problems from electrical to mechanical.

I am either the unluckiest SOB when it comes to Caddies (and by comparison the luckiest Benz buyer int he world) or your FACTS about Benzes being unreliable is just a bunch of uninformed, hot air.

BTW, I am not bashing GM. Since 1990 I have owned three Suburbans-Yukon. Those are the most reliable trucks in the world. We once drove one of our Suburbans (this one was a 1995 model) all the way from Berkeley, California to Los Angeles with a transmission that began to fall part halfway through the trip. It was a night run and there were no open service stations. The Suburban made it all the way home and hten, like a faithful servant, just died as we pulled into our driveway. A week later and $800.00 poorer, the Suburban was running again--what a champ.

So my beef is not with GM or even with Caillac in particular. My beef is with a car company that in a recent series of ads had to aplogize to the buying public who for the last 25 - 30 years have been buying their crappy cars. I admire GM for its honesty, but hell that does not help the people who bought Cadillac diesels (you were probably not even born when Caddy unleashed that particular POS onthe buying public) and it does not help people who bought the 4-6-8 V8, or the people whose Sevilles and Devilles still suffer from highway vibrations.

I am, however, flabbergasted at the amount of uninformed opinions from people who have probably not even been inside a Benz--let alone driven or owned one.

As for reliability, check out the 2004 Consumer Report ratings on the CTS. The car is so unreliable (according to CR, I've never owned one so I have no personal opinion about the CTS) that the arrow that point into the black area (the BAD area) is off the chart. So go figure.

Like I told Ralph, I will never be able to convince either of you guys. That's fine with me. That's what so great about this country, there are cars for all tastes and all pocketbooks. Personally, the less people like Benzes, the better for me...it helps keep prices down.

But if Caddy is going to start charging Benz prices, they better start offering Benz amenities. Benz of North America bends over to kiss customers' bu**s. My Caddy dealer treats me like royalty, but Caddy itself is a royal pain in the back to deal with.

Peace out!

1toycad
08-10-04, 02:18 AM
An apology to 1ToyCad. I certainly don't want you to leave the Forum over something like this or anything, etc. I'm sure our beliefs still stand, and I can respect that. We'll call it even for that Canadian auto parts fiasco we had. ;) When I do run across that Zeta-Jones mousepad, I'll be sure to get your addy. :) Nuff said?

Ralph, it would take more than your comments to get me to leave this forum. I kinda like it here.

I make my living fighting people (in court). I love this give and take.

Let me tell you what it all boils down to.

At one point in history, Cadillac made some of the most beautiful, most sought out, most technically evolved cars in the world. When my father was a poor, young boy (during the Depression) Cadillacs were the cars to have--to own meant that you had arrived. That's why as soon as he could, he began to buy new Caddies. My godfather owned one of the last Cadillac convertibles exported to Cuba (prior to Castro's disaster). So my Cadillac roots probably go further back than most people here.

Then, for some reason, Cadillac lost its way in the world and it started to make crap. They admitted as much in a recent series of ads. Thier apolgy to the consuming public came a day late and dollars short.

Is Cadillac making a comeback? I think so--I certainly hope so. Are they "there?" Not yet.

Critcizing a make of cars that has been part of my life for a long time is not out of disrespect. Rather it is out of a desire to see Caddy do better. If we all stand around, slapping our backs, congratulating ourselves on what nice cars Caddies are, the company WILL NOT move forward. Competition is what makes us stronger, better, faster. If Caddy needs a kick in the butt to be "all that it can be" then I intend to keep kicking it until it hurts.

Benz has also made some of the greatest cars in the world. Benz is widely acclaimed, by people who make a living stydying cars, as one of the greatest car makes--bar none! If you are ever in California I will let you drive my 420SEL, you will then see, first hand, what a capable, powerful sedan it is-you will experience what a joy it is to drive one. Are all Benzes great cars? I don't think so. Have they come up with some bad cars? Yes. The big difference is that Benz is willing to spend time and money on R&D before putting cars ou ton the road. Cadillac (and GM) are willing to let the buying public do a great deal of the company's R&D...that pisses me off!

I hope this settles this issue. You are not a bad person..for a Canadian :lildevil: You jusat happen to be wrong abut Benzes, just like you are wrong in the Natty vs. Zeta debate. :lildevil: :lildevil: :lildevil:

Peace out...

Msilva954
08-10-04, 02:20 AM
I agree that your one of the unluckiest Caddy owners....but I disagree with you being a lucky benz owner......we have had 6#' diesels........82' SEL........85'500SEC....and extremly close friends with 600SEC.......all have been problem free (besides the diesel being horribly underpowered)

Benz of old is far different from benz of new......they have taken a quality leap WAY down.........and I totally agree with you that those year Mercs were great we still have the 500SEC............and love it to death....but are next car is not going to be a Benz even though we still like some of them to a degree.

Ralph
08-10-04, 02:28 AM
Is Cadillac making a comeback? I think so--I certainly hope so. Are they "there?" Not yet.


Not until we get Lexus, they're next. ;)

The guy that parks beside me has a mint silver 1992 300 sd? Anyway it's a diesel and you would not know it. There is no engine knock and I do like the styling. (ouch, that was HARD to say) :p Anyway, is yours the same styling or did it change from 91-92. I think it's identical externally to a 400 except the diesel?

I also just think you are right about being very unlucky with Cadillacs, if you had good luck like others here, we wouldn't have had this exchange.

And don't worry, I know you Yanks like to argue, especially right before an election. :D

p.s. Catherine is married to Mikey. :crying: Still!

gothicaleigh
08-11-04, 04:05 PM
As for reliability, check out the 2004 Consumer Report ratings on the CTS. The car is so unreliable (according to CR, I've never owned one so I have no personal opinion about the CTS) that the arrow that point into the black area (the BAD area) is off the chart. So go figure.


Consumer Reports is a rag. They need to stick to reviewing toasters.

What everyone else says about current Cadillac (and CTS) quality and reliability:

"At the nameplate level, Lexus ranks highest for the 10th consecutive year. Lexus is followed in the rankings by Buick, Infiniti, Lincoln and Cadillac, respectively." ~JDPower

Hmm. MB comes in at #28... and well below the industry average...
http://www.jdpower.com/presspass/pr/images/2004055b.gif

Cadillac also ranks #2 in Initial Quality this year (for the second year in a row):
http://www.jdpower.com/presspass/pr/images/2004037c.gif

"One of GM’s shining GMS stars is Lansing Grand River. The greenfield plant launched the Cadillac CTS last year with a J.D. Powerrated score of 88 problems per 100.

“That’s a Toyota-like number,” says Ivers, “To do that in a greenfield plant is noteworthy,” he adds. And to do that up north in the land of the UAW is also noteworthy. They’ve clearly achieved something worth replicating there.” Ivers also points out that the CTS’s IQS score was the driver that moved the Cadillac brand into second-in-class behind Lexus in this year’s survey.

“Most manufacturers that I know that have tried to benchmark a BMW 5 series,” Ivers says, “have gone into that expecting their CSI and IQS performance to deteriorate, just because those customers are tougher customers. GM not only got those customers with the CTS, but got such great reviews from them in initial quality."

" CTS single-handedly vaulted Cadillac to second place among brand names in the 2003 J.D. Power initial quality survey."
http://www.ai-online.com/issues/article_detail.asp?id=210

Msilva954
08-11-04, 08:21 PM
1toycad.......search the forums for a thread I did once about consumer reports......they are some of the worst reviewers when it comes to automobiles......like stated above they need to stick to Appliances and other misc things that they are good at............all the complaints they get anyway come from people with crappy lemon cars.........if you have a great car that gives you no problems your not gonna get in writing mode and write letters to CR...........your gonna enjoy it and try not and jinx your self (lol). Cadillacs and Lincolns are some of the most realiable cars in the US and everywhere else. Europeans will never have the reliability of them.......not with all that electronic crap at least.

Ralph
08-13-04, 06:34 AM
A note about the ML, and in fairness, about the X5 as well. BOTH of these vehicles were EXPERIMENTS by MB and BMW at being the first vehicles MFD in the UNITED STATES

Actually Ian, I thought the Z3 was the first BMW that was made in the U.S. back in 1995? (remember Goldeneye) I thought the X5 was made first in 1997 or '98?

Msilva954
08-13-04, 11:30 AM
^ Correct the Z3 was the first car BMW built in the US....they have a beautiful South Carolina Factory Which also is where the M3/M5/Z8 Training is.