I've been researching - - makes me ill - - here is what I found for the cars we love and the unfortunate early deaths our tax dollars funded to the tune of $24,000 dollars per car:

All figures below are only for Rear Drive deVilles, Fleetwoods, Broughams:

1984 - 34
1985 - 75
1986 - I could not find
1987 - 105
1988 - 126
1989 - 112
1990 - 119
1991 - 142
1992 - 65
1993 - 169
1994 - 122
1995 - 57
1996 - 49

Numbers source: The Full List Of Every Cash For Clunkers Trade-In - C4C - Jalopnik (http://jalopnik.com/5369762/the-full-list-of-every-cash-for-clunkers-trade+in)

$24,000 source: http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/press/159446/article.html

I don't have the heart to add it up... :(

FYI

Too many dead. Automotive Genocide is the only way to describe it.

1,175 RWD Cadillacs ('86 excluded)

Thank you socialism. =\

Just don't multiply 1,175 by $24,000.

Trust me, I don't want to.

Caddy & other big car owners converging on DC is something I would dearly love to see. Can you imagine whole battalions of Cadillacs, Lincolns, Imperials, and other representatives of our proud automotive heritage rolling down Pennsylvania Ave & parking on the White House lawn, Mall promenade, Senate & Congressional parking lots? What would the greenies do, throw themselves under our wheels in protest? Fine with me, so long as there's a carwash available! :cheers:

What disgusts & infuriates me is that the whole vile scheme was financed by our tax $$. Those miserable sons of b*****s. :gun2:

yeah, everyone kept asking me if i was going to trade my car in with cash for clunkers and I nearly punched them :(

so sad, it's like the holocaust of cars :(

I actually thought it would be more...

Never forget.

Calling it the holocaust of cars is a little extreme, 1,175 out of how many RWD Cadillacs produced over those 12 years? 500,000? Losers who don't know how to maintain a vehicle have likely destroyed far far far more of our beloved beasts. Not to mention road salt....

The $24,000 figure is pretty subjective. All of those people were going to buy a new car at some point so if you use Edmund's logic that means each C4C trade in cost us $Infinity ($3B / 0).

I agree that the edmunds logic is flawed (if often is), but really, I think holocast of cars is pretty close. Think about this, it's not just referring to Cadillacs, but cars in general. We spent 3 billion on this program. Assuming every car got $4,500 as trade (we know many got 3,500 but I don't want to overestimate).

Three billion dollars divided by $4,500 is: 666,667 cars.

That's pretty damn close I think.

Canada got on-board with this too. I pulled into my local Cadillac/Buick dealer today and they have this huge dumpster in the forecourt with a gold-badged triple-black Fleetwood rear-end sticking out like it's Cadillac Ranch :cookoo:. There's a big banner on the dumpster side promoting the program :annoyed:

Martin.

The main problem I have is all the used cars were American assets. No more sales taxes being paid on these cars when they are sold. No sales commissions being paid, no more auto repair bills when they break, no gas being purchased, etc., etc. Also, fewer cheap cars for people who need them - and that is what keeps people who are struggling forever struggling and relying on big government. Add the costs above plus probably about ten time more and it appears $24,000 per car is a drop in the bucket. The government needs to be absent from stimulating the economy. I'm tired of political correctness. Everyone should be driving a large, comfortable Cadillac! :)

Canada got on-board with this too. I pulled into my local Cadillac/Buick dealer today and they have this huge dumpster in the forecourt with a gold-badged triple-black Fleetwood rear-end sticking out like it's Cadillac Ranch . There's a big banner on the dumpster side promoting the program

Martin, in Canada it is not a government-funded program. It is strictly a sales incentive by manufacturers. They have a dumpster in front of my Chevy dealer with a couple of Cavaliers sticking out of it.

You should climb up in that dumpster and see if there are any good parts on that car! What year is it?

Maybe Obama's next plan will be be cash for hobos... Take care of the homeless population


Canada got on-board with this too. I pulled into my local Cadillac/Buick dealer today and they have this huge dumpster in the forecourt with a gold-badged triple-black Fleetwood rear-end sticking out like it's Cadillac Ranch :cookoo:. There's a big banner on the dumpster side promoting the program :annoyed:

Martin.

If the car is dead, then there's no reason why you can't profit from it. What's the worse they can do to you if you jump into the dumpster and start removing the ornaments. It lived as a Cadillac, but the only thing that says it died as one should be the tailfins.

Maybe we'll soon see "cash for cigarettes" "cash for guns" and "cash for fill in whatever bogeyman the govt and its media proxies are worried about at the moment"?

After all, with socialism any problem can be solved if you throw enough money at it and create some new govt agency.

Keep it on topic, gentlemen, or this thread goes to The Lounge. Remember, it's all about RWD Caddillacs, not political views.

1175 RWDers plus let's say 125 for 1986 so let's call it 1300 RWD Cadillacs sent to the scrapper. Park them bumper to bumper and it's a five mile long parade, regrettably, to their deaths, but if we could have only saved some of the cherries - - an engine and some good tires for Sting, some extra vacuum hoses and ornaments for Sven, chrome wheels for our long lost friend BMW Nick (where is he anyway?!?), an extra HT 4100 for Jay's Mom's Caddy, and I'm sure Santa would have had something for everyone! I could really use a set of lace alloy wheels from the standard RWD Fleetwood that I wonder if there is any chance of them not already being melted down?!

I've read on the GMC motorhome forum (you know, the cool factory space age front wheel drive motorhomes with the dual rear wheels made from 73-78) and the forum participants are jumping for joy at all the conversion vans they are seeing to pick parts from.

Politics lately does encroach upon our RWD Cadillac passions. Let's remember that fine line of civility and honorably and honestly taking action with our voices and our votes. Cadillac RWD's are as all American as it gets!!!! We shall overcome! :) :)

You know, thinking of it like that, you have a good point. There are a lot of things that could have been saved.

And probably countless interior parts that I don't even want to think about. lol

an extra HT 4100 for Jay's Mom's Caddy

It's already on its second 4100. The original one expired at 51000 miles. Not sure how long this one will survive. Don't think I will be putting another one back in...

The only ray of sunshine about the CFC program is that they allowed the cars to be used for parts. I wouldn't have been surprised if they had directed the cars to be crushed immediately. I do understand the whole economy stimulus part, but I believe that the MPG improvement should have been stricter, and there should have been a restriction to NAFTA vehicles only.

There. I have been political. Hope everyone is happy :D

Maybe Obama's next plan will be be cash for hobos... Take care of the homeless population

I wish LOL, but that ain't gonna happen as long as there's a democrat in office. As soon as we get a republican in office, then we'll see.... :stirpot:

Jay, I think you're a big LIB but I still love you! :) We all need to be nice with our political howling. I think most of us know what the cash for clunkers means to us personally and its impact on our thinking.

How in the heck did Mom's HT 4100 die at only 51k?!? What are you going to put in for engine #3? :) I can't believe those HT4100's are that bad! Some of the most beautiful Cadillacs ever had that seemingly sad engine. A shame since those HT's are pretty smooth and silky.

Honestly, I don't know how it died. My father bought it when he was diagnosed with cancer, he had always dreamed of having a Caddy while driving Chevys. He bought it from a pilot that had purchased it in FL and driven it back to Ottawa. It was mint, and still is. Never seen a flake of snow in its entire life. Treated to regular oil changes, no full throttle acceleration, etc. After dad died, mom was driving it. Started it up one day, and it sounded like someone was trying to knock down a bank vault door with a sledgehammer. I had never heard rod knock before, and I don't want to hear it again. The car was so mint, she didn't want to let it go. That, and the big sentimental value. So, she drove it down to the Cadillac dealer, and told them to put a new engine in it. You don't want to know how much it cost. I have taken very good care of it, and it continues to be reliable. She just got back from a road trip with it, and it performed very well. Not bad for a 25 year old car. I need to get her HVAC sorted out (believe it needs a climate display head and/or a programmer) but that is not a big deal. If the 4100 goes... well, I don't think I will bother with another one. Anything would take work if I went with something else, so I would probably stick in an LSx style motor with a 4L60E. You can't beat the GenIII motors for power/fuel economy. It would make over double the HP as the 4100, while getting at least 5mpg better. Match it up with a 9C1 disc rear, cause the LS would grenade the 7.5 in short order. Well, maybe not when she drives, but I would have to test drive it. I'm sure she would have less trouble passing ;)

Wait, If I get over political I think you get over technical! :) What is a LSx motor with a 4L60E? 9C1 disc rear? a 7.5? :)

LSx series motors are like.. LS1, LS2, LQ4, LQ9, LS9, etc. etc.

4L60E: here, I wrote this article for my job. :D! http://www.carsdirect.com/car-repair/what-is-a-4l60e-transmission (You know I had to throw the Fleetwood in there at the end as its own category in that first paragraph ;))

9C1 disc rear: rear end out of a Caprice with the 9C1 police package.

And I <think> 7.5 is the diameter of the rear end housing (I could be wrong, Jay?)

Thanks for explaining - - which engines exactly are LS1, LS2, LQ4, so on.......???? I'm sure Jay knows all of these engines pollute and get terrible gas mileage and could be outlawed before the HT 4100 in Mom's car gives out! :) That car may be allowed a 2.5 Tech 4! :)

The LS1 was in the Camaro/Firebird of the late 90's early 2000s. LS2's were in C5 Corvettes (I believe).. uhh... I'm new to the LQ4 and LQ9, but I guess they're truck motors (I've heard of the Escalade and Trailblazer SS for examples) And of course the LS7 in the C6 Z06, and the LS9 in the ZR1.

That's about all I know. lol

Now we're getting somewhere! You guys know I love the tech talk. Thanks to my apprentice (lol) for explaining everything.

Maybe I'll have to swap a Chevy Volt powertrain (module?) into it!

Yay apprenticeship! lol

I like tech talk too. I love learning about cars honestly.

And hey. Shush. I like the Volt. It's not sexy like the concept, but it's a step in the right direction as far as developing something beyond electrics. If you think about it, if we push electricity to its limits early, it won't last long because someone will want to push economy and power further. Go Volt!

The LS1 was in the Camaro/Firebird of the late 90's early 2000s. LS2's were in C5 Corvettes (I believe).. uhh... I'm new to the LQ4 and LQ9, but I guess they're truck motors (I've heard of the Escalade and Trailblazer SS for examples) And of course the LS7 in the C6 Z06, and the LS9 in the ZR1.

That's about all I know. lol

LS2's were in the C5 Corvettes, and LS3's are in the standard C6 'vettes. My '06 Pontiac GTO has an LS2 ('04s came with LS1, 05-06 with the LS2). The Trailblazer SS used an LS2 motor. LQ4 and LQ9's go into the trucks; both are 6.0l but the LQ9 is the higher-compression, higher HP motor.

My '06 Pontiac GTO has an LS2

Great car, congrats!

OK, so are all those engines variations of 350's? Still no simple answer. And you go right ahead and volt up Mom's Caddy - - it can't be worse than a 4100 I guess. It's OK if you guys want your big Cads to have powertrains from a volt - - I'll be chugging along in my 7.0 liter/425 cubic inch All American full polluting and extreme gas consuming Cadillac with all of its All-American glory! I won't trade away my freedom for the regulation of environmental political correctness which seeks to destroy our ability to take pride in and enjoy our big, comfortable, safe, and luxurious large Cadillacs! So, will I get an answer to exactly which engines these codes stand for or am I going to have to toss you guys into the Lounge??!!?? :)

Great car, congrats!

Thanks, it's my pride and joy. It will be taking its winter nap soon,depending on when the snow/ice/salt arrive!

Okay here's the breakdown (to the best of my memory)

LS1 is a 350
LS2 is 6 litres
LS3 is a 6 litre too (the new Corvette motor, 430hp)
The 5.3 litre engine in like, Monte Carlo/Impala SS is the LS4
Don't know if there's an LS5
LS6 is a 6 litre engine (I think?)
LS7 is the 427 from the Z06
Not sure if there's an LS8
LS9 is the motor from the ZR1

EDIT: Actually.. is the LS2 a 350 too? Feeling too lazy to look it up. Ah well, that's as close as I can get off the top of my head. lol

I can't get over talking all this Chevy engine stuff. I still think in terms of 500 or 425, or, if feeling international: 8.2 or 7.0. All are big and beautiful! The only way to travel is Cadillac style! - - remember that TV advertising campaign from 1988? :)

No sir, I'm pretty sure I wasn't even a twinkle in my dad's eye at that point. lol

Please help! How do I get my photo album in my profile working again? I received a complaint that my hybrid parking spot pictures aren't showing up and I noticed all my pictures are in a black hole somewhere!

Uh oh.

I actually saved the hybrid picture where you parked sideways (per my suggestion). It makes me laugh.

Please help! How do I get my photo album in my profile working again? I received a complaint that my hybrid parking spot pictures aren't showing up and I noticed all my pictures are in a black hole somewhere!

There may be a forum problem. I just tried to access my "Pictures and Albums" and I got "a00783's Albums" with no pictures. I will post this in the Forum Team section...

EDIT: Actually.. is the LS2 a 350 too? Feeling too lazy to look it up. Ah well, that's as close as I can get off the top of my head. lol

IIRC, LS1 is listed as 5.7l and LS2 is 6.0l. That's pretty close to 350ci (348 vs 366 ci).

Yeah, I knew the LS1 was a 5.7 (just called for simplicity a 350 by most people).

<q>The only way to travel is Cadillac style! - - remember that TV advertising campaign from 1988?<uq>

That was about when my Brougham rolled off the assembly line; what a wonderful phrase to keep in mind :)

Warren, Cadillac Style was one of the very best Cadillac marketing slogans.

The new Cadillacs today seem to be coming around yet the styling strategy seems to be getting exaggerated and old. I like most new Chevys better! :) Old time all-American luxury and prestige will be the difference if we want American cars that lead the way. It's a strategy that will work if tried!

One thing seems to be evident: we need to get rid of politicians deciding what kinds of cars are acceptable and let the market lead the way. As I reviewed the postings in this thread I'm amazed at the passions for wanting the people to decide the big picture and not the government. Those who want to micromanage reality think there's always a smarter solution that government can impose on the people but it never works because the people, left alone by a meddling government, will always do what is good and right despite the government with the "elites" (liberals) not believing the folks are capable of doing so. I trust we'll start to see a reversal of the current insanity as people awaken. Car nuts watching good cars needlessly destroyed will take only so much. Let's start to video the forlorn cars on the way to the crusher and illuminate the expensive government programs that will bankrupt those of us who will pay the price. I don't want to see even one more Cadillac or any plenty good car destroyed for a government program. Cars should die when they are consumed by the market. The market is US! :)

There is quite a bit of misinformation in this thread concerning General Motors Gen III and Gen IV V8 motors. GEN II is the LT1, which is a revised small block chevy with reverse flow cooling, different intake, and the optispark distrubitor mounted under the water pump.

GEN I is the 350 small block Chevy, TPI, TBI, and carbed motors are all gen I. They trace their roots back to the 265ci V8 found under the hood of the 1955 Chevy. Common displacements were 350ci, 305ci, 327ci, 400ci.

Anyways, GEN III made its debut with the LS1 in the 1997 C5 Corvette. The LS1 and all its GEN III variants are a clean sheet design and share absolutely no componets or interchangeble parts with the old LT1 or SBC, the LS1 displacement is 346ci. Some enthusiasts refer to the GEN III/Gen IV motors as the LS series because of the engine desginations, LS1, LS6, LS2, etc.

It really pisses me off when people refer to a car/truck equipped with a GEN III/IV engine as a "350" or "350 Chevy". IT IS NOT A 350, and has nothing in common with a 350 other than having 8 cylinders and being in a General Motors product. There is not a single GEN III/GEN IV engine with 350ci displacement.

Anyways the GEN III motors made their way into the fbody for MY 1998 with the SAME LS1 as in the Corvette. The redesigned light duty pickups recieved them for the 1999 model year, with displacements of 5.3 and 4.8L. The heavy duty line got them in their 2001 MY redesign, the SUV's in the 2000 MY redesign, the full size vans got them in MY 2003.

I can go on about the GEN IV motors, which made their debut with the LS2 in the 2005 C6 Vette and 2005 GTO. Basically they are an updated version of the GEN III motors, with many interchangable parts to the previous GEN III motors. GEN IV introduced such cool technologies as Displacement on Demand, a fuel enconomy feature that shuts down half of its cylinders under light load(ala the old 1981 Caddy V4-6-8). Variable valve timing is also found on some versions of the GEN IV motors.

For a virtual library of anything pertaining to the GEN III/GEN IV GM V8, go to www.LS1tech.com The amount of knoweldge on that site is simply staggering, there are guys building 10 second quarter mile Vettes and fbodys, then using them for daily drivers with nice street manners and working a/c.

As a random tidbit, LS1tech is run by the same company that I write for.

Also, Displacement on Demand was renamed Active Fuel Management, but really, I think it sounds lamer.