I just wanted to give you a quick wrap up and dispell a few myths and rumors I see around the net.

My first hand experience was insane. It was a media circus and Cadillac made me feel every bit like a celeb. I must have been interviewed a dozen times. The highlight for me was a day before the event getting to participate in car guy talk with the engineers Aaron Link, Chris Barebie (I'm certain I spelled the last name wrong), the techs Al and Roger who set up my car and lastly John Heinricy. I got a few preview laps with John I described in another post- awesome! I felt like a boy among men and these guys were actually thanking me up and down for making the trip out. They all thanked me more than once for buying the car. I thanked them for building it.

What started out as a near disaster with cars pulling out, turned into a media extravaganza. Lutz arrived like a rockstar and the day was on. Camera crew, magazines, the SPEED Channel, the networks and maybe a dozen or so live bloggers were there. I had never seen so many flash bulbs in my life as we stood there. It was like paparazzi and red carpet crazy. There was even a Helicopter chasing me around the track filming, (picture Miami Vice.)

If you haven't seen the results here they are:
1. Cadillac CTS-V (John Heinricy): 2:46:560
2. Cadillac CTS-V (Brian Redman): 2:49:183
3. Cadillac CTS-V (Aaron Link): 2:48:902
4. BMW M3 (Michael Cooper): 2.50:424
5. Cadillac CTS-V (Jack Baruth): 2:51:153
6. Cadillac CTS-V (Lawrence Ulrich): 2:53:026
7. Cadillac CTS-V (Bob Lutz): 2:56:321
8. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X (Wes Siler): 3:08.126
9. BMW M5 (Michael Mainwald): 3:08:989
10. Cadillac CTS-V (Chris Fairman.): 3:14:292
11. Audi RS4 (Tom Loder): 3:15:702
12. Jaguar XF (Archan Basu): 3:16.670

There was also a "mystery driver" who topped John H. I think he was a Monticello instructor- not sure.

Here is my take. In all categories within "like driver" comparison the V wins. Did Lutz lose to the kid in the M3?, yes. Is the kid in the M3 an amateur? I'm not sure, but he has skills for sure. Everyone gave him credit and he deserved it. I asked him several times what he does, where he's raced, what schools he's been to etc. etc. He was very tight lipped, like a sandbagger, ringer. His dad and little brothers on the other hand revealed that he races a lot and goes to race camps every summer. In my opinion he's somewhere above an accomplished amateur and somewhere below a pro. Which happens to be right where he finished. Give him credit for sure, but don't be fooled that he's just a 21 year old kid with a nice car. It was revealed he also had a Z06 in the past and there was a Porshe and maybe some other cars in the family stable as well.

So amoung the top 6 pro and well trained drivers the CTS took the top 3 spots. Call them category 1.

Category 2

Among amateur drivers with better than average skills, Lutz beat the Evo and the M5.

The last 3 drivers included me, with zero skill, first day on the track. The Jag driver had his own helmet, which tells me he's done this at least once or twice before and the Audi driver who I spent some time with, who has been to Audi driving school and a couple of track days. The cadillac pros all gave me props for beating the 2 of them from the "low skills" category. I was tickled pink that guys like John, Aaron, and Chris and the techs, Roger and Al were giving me props for beating a couple cars on my first day. I can tell you it was the car, not me. I just paused typing for a second to pat myself on the back :)

Cadillac and the crew really treated me like a king and if I sound like a Cadillac ambassador, I guess I am. I was just happy to be a part of it. I did not want to ask for anything else, since so much was already given. I only asked for one thing. I noticed the in-car cameras in some of the other cars and I didn't get one, because obviously they had other CTS-Vs with cameras already, like Bob's car, so I didn't need one. I casually asked Mary, one of the marketing people who seemed to be in charge, if I could get one, so I'd have something to show the wife and kids when I got home. She got on it like stink on poop and in 5 minutes there was a camera in my car. Thanks Mary! Just another nice touch and attention to detail. Thanks to David Caldwell for selecting me to participate.

My V was the only Thunder Grey there. I think the camera men and journalists liked it because they put it between the Bimmers and Jag. It seems to have made it to a lot of pictures on the net that I've seen so far. I'm wearing the orange jaket and sometimes the Blue Jacket with the Michigan block M -go blue. By the way after running around a track wide open for a day. My buddy, Dave, and I jumped in the car for a 9 1/2 hour run home to Ann Arbor. The car can do it all and do it all very well. Well done Cadillac, you've made a friend for life.

Chris

:thumbsup::thumbsup:Great post Chris! Any indication that the M3 was tuned? Also, do you know what the record time around the track is...excluding this event. Thanks

Excellent write up! Thanks, wish I was there!

Thanks for the firsthand insight into the event. :thumbsup:

I've had my V a few weeks and I'm a drag racer at heart (had it at the strip within a week), but your experience definitely tells me I'll want to wring this car out on a road course at least once. The Caddy guys definitely got this car right.

Very humble post and great job under what was likely a very intimidating atmosphere for an amatuer. :worship: :worship: :worship:

Can we still refer to you as an amateur? :canttalk:

Congrats Chris, and glad you had a great time!

Great review, and thanks for taking the time to write it. I found your information on the M3 'kid' very interesting. Like I suspected, he wasn't exactly an amateur.

BTW, the mystery driver was Johnny O'Connell, one of the Corvette C6.R race drivers. :D

Thanks for sharing your insight into the event. I think I can speak for many of us here when I say we enjoyed living vicariously through you. :thumbsup:

The M3 driver was no ringer (you can get more info on him at m3post.com) - hate to say it but the CTS-V driven by Lutz lost to the M3...

great write-up!! What a wonderful experience you had, glad you had a blast!! Thanks for taking the time to share this great information. Keep enjoying your V.

The M3 driver was no ringer (you can get more info on him at m3post.com) - hate to say it but the CTS-V driven by Lutz lost to the M3...

Awesome write-up Chris! I envy you being able to drive there and rub elbows with the brass at GM. Wish I could have been there!

Let's keep in mind that Bob Lutz is 77 years old and lost to a 21 year old kid. Big deal. I mean, come on! Lutz is pushing 80 years old. I give him a lot of credit, because I doubt at 77 years old, I will want to go that fast, but putting it into prospective, he ain't no spring chicken. That is why GM had John Heinricy there to make sure the CTS-V walks away a winner. Still a successful event for GM and Cadillac.

Now if only GM made a CTS-V specific TV commercial, the average Joe would actual know what kind of unique car I drive. Most people don't know what a 2009 CTS-V is!

SG

If you haven't seen the results here they are:

2. Cadillac CTS-V (Brian Redman): 2:49:183




Jolly good performance for a "72" yr old guy

Great write-up Chris

Anybody here still not sure if you want to pull the trigger on a new V? Look what it did for Chris. A lifetime memory has just been made. Only in a Cadillac!

Enjoy an awesome video of Johnny O'Connell having a truly fun lap!
4Vsf-srpzPc

Which posted runs on the CTS-V were on a manual and which were on an auto?

I wonder who's G-meter read the highest :D Great job Chris, you're a class act. (Oh by the way, I believe the Chris B. you mention in your first post is Chris Berube, Lead Powertrain Engineer, whom I seem to recall was the one that said they left an easy 10% on the table for the tuners)

Wow....that would have been amazing. I'd love to meet Lutz or O'connell one day.

The M3 driver was no ringer (you can get more info on him at m3post.com) - hate to say it but the CTS-V driven by Lutz lost to the M3...

Don't say you "hate to say it" it is a fact. The V driven by Lutz was bested by an M3. Bob conceded victory to the "whipper snappers" in several interviews before the race even began. My buddy Dave and I had this talk for 9 1/2 hours on the way home. We predicted it would shake out like this. If you were a BMer fan, you would claim the race was Lutz vs. Mike Cooper and Mike Cooper and the BMer wins. Read some BMW forums. If you are a Caddy fan, you'll say the challenge is Car vs. Car with any driver. In that case if you count mystery driver Oconnel, Caddy takes the top 4 spots. I'll summarize the challenge agreement for you, unless you care to read 10 pages. It never, ever, ever says Lutz is the only driver. In fact it says several times there will be professional GM drivers on hand to compete. It also says Cadillac will pick the participants for "business purposes", not necessarily what is fair. By accepting the agreement, you agree to the terms above. You cannot agree to the terms above and later cry foul. It was Cadillac"s game from the start and if you thought there was a sigle contender who had a chance, think again.

There was such a discrepancy between skill levels, we should all see that it was a great day of publicity. There was record holding drivers at the top and me at the bottom on the track for the first time. Anyone who calls it a serious competition where results can be quoted as fact is just silly.

My favorite lines from Bob came when he decided to his credit to make the challenge on a track, instead of the salt flats. He said everyone knows american cars can go fast in a straight line. He wanted to show they could turn and stop as well. This car can run with and beat the euros at their own game which they have honestly owned for decades. Mission accomplished, Mr. Lutz. and design team.

chris

I wonder who's G-meter read the highest :D Great job Chris, you're a class act. (Oh by the way, I believe the Chris B. you mention in your first post is Chris Berube, Lead Powertrain Engineer, whom I seem to recall was the one that said they left an easy 10% on the table for the tuners)

It may be him. I thought he was a "system integration" engineer. I'm really not certain. I looked at my G meter today 1.02, on the nose both right and left. It could have been higher on a dry track, I imagine. I'm not going to reset it. I'm going to leave it there as a memory :)

Michael Cooper speaks (http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6126711#post6126711). He said in earlier post his hot laps were limited because the brakes were toast. Same for Jack Baruth's personal S5 (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/how-i-wonlostfailed-to-understand-the-cadillac-cts-v-challenge/). In that article Mr. Baruth also notices something interesting about Mr. Cooper's M3His grey sedan, hunkered down with no visible gap between tire and fender...

Official GM video of the event (http://www.youtube.com/v/hxaPmf4Gx0Q&rel=0&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1). Sorry they ID'd you as the Audi driver Chris (bad edit).

Yeah, it looks like my name comes up late on the screen on the Audi driver instead of me. Oh well, I'm just thrilled my boys recognize the Thunder Grey caddy and say, "that's my dad's car". It really was a treat.

This one will be pretty hard to top.

Check one off my bucket list.

chris

I just wanted to give you a quick wrap up and dispell a few myths and rumors I see around the net.

My first hand experience was insane. It was a media circus and Cadillac made me feel every bit like a celeb. I must have been interviewed a dozen times. The highlight for me was a day before the event getting to participate in car guy talk with the engineers Aaron Link, Chris Barebie (I'm certain I spelled the last name wrong), the techs Al and Roger who set up my car and lastly John Heinricy. I got a few preview laps with John I described in another post- awesome! I felt like a boy among men and these guys were actually thanking me up and down for making the trip out. They all thanked me more than once for buying the car. I thanked them for building it.

What started out as a near disaster with cars pulling out, turned into a media extravaganza. Lutz arrived like a rockstar and the day was on. Camera crew, magazines, the SPEED Channel, the networks and maybe a dozen or so live bloggers were there. I had never seen so many flash bulbs in my life as we stood there. It was like paparazzi and red carpet crazy. There was even a Helicopter chasing me around the track filming, (picture Miami Vice.)

If you haven't seen the results here they are:
1. Cadillac CTS-V (John Heinricy): 2:46:560
2. Cadillac CTS-V (Brian Redman): 2:49:183
3. Cadillac CTS-V (Aaron Link): 2:48:902
4. BMW M3 (Michael Cooper): 2.50:424
5. Cadillac CTS-V (Jack Baruth): 2:51:153
6. Cadillac CTS-V (Lawrence Ulrich): 2:53:026
7. Cadillac CTS-V (Bob Lutz): 2:56:321
8. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X (Wes Siler): 3:08.126
9. BMW M5 (Michael Mainwald): 3:08:989
10. Cadillac CTS-V (Chris Fairman.): 3:14:292
11. Audi RS4 (Tom Loder): 3:15:702
12. Jaguar XF (Archan Basu): 3:16.670

There was also a "mystery driver" who topped John H. I think he was a Monticello instructor- not sure.

Here is my take. In all categories within "like driver" comparison the V wins. Did Lutz lose to the kid in the M3?, yes. Is the kid in the M3 an amateur? I'm not sure, but he has skills for sure. Everyone gave him credit and he deserved it. I asked him several times what he does, where he's raced, what schools he's been to etc. etc. He was very tight lipped, like a sandbagger, ringer. His dad and little brothers on the other hand revealed that he races a lot and goes to race camps every summer. In my opinion he's somewhere above an accomplished amateur and somewhere below a pro. Which happens to be right where he finished. Give him credit for sure, but don't be fooled that he's just a 21 year old kid with a nice car. It was revealed he also had a Z06 in the past and there was a Porshe and maybe some other cars in the family stable as well.

So amoung the top 6 pro and well trained drivers the CTS took the top 3 spots. Call them category 1.

Category 2

Among amateur drivers with better than average skills, Lutz beat the Evo and the M5.

The last 3 drivers included me, with zero skill, first day on the track. The Jag driver had his own helmet, which tells me he's done this at least once or twice before and the Audi driver who I spent some time with, who has been to Audi driving school and a couple of track days. The cadillac pros all gave me props for beating the 2 of them from the "low skills" category. I was tickled pink that guys like John, Aaron, and Chris and the techs, Roger and Al were giving me props for beating a couple cars on my first day. I can tell you it was the car, not me. I just paused typing for a second to pat myself on the back :)

Cadillac and the crew really treated me like a king and if I sound like a Cadillac ambassador, I guess I am. I was just happy to be a part of it. I did not want to ask for anything else, since so much was already given. I only asked for one thing. I noticed the in-car cameras in some of the other cars and I didn't get one, because obviously they had other CTS-Vs with cameras already, like Bob's car, so I didn't need one. I casually asked Mary, one of the marketing people who seemed to be in charge, if I could get one, so I'd have something to show the wife and kids when I got home. She got on it like stink on poop and in 5 minutes there was a camera in my car. Thanks Mary! Just another nice touch and attention to detail. Thanks to David Caldwell for selecting me to participate.

My V was the only Thunder Grey there. I think the camera men and journalists liked it because they put it between the Bimmers and Jag. It seems to have made it to a lot of pictures on the net that I've seen so far. I'm wearing the orange jaket and sometimes the Blue Jacket with the Michigan block M -go blue. By the way after running around a track wide open for a day. My buddy, Dave, and I jumped in the car for a 9 1/2 hour run home to Ann Arbor. The car can do it all and do it all very well. Well done Cadillac, you've made a friend for life.

Chris

Nice report Wolverine. It's posts like yours that confirms my sanity in making the decision to jump on the V. At the time, it was a tight call between my Raven Black beauty and an Obsidian Black C63 AMG,... mainly because I was coming out of an 03 C32 AMG. Only after nearly scratching out what little hair I have, did I land on my 09 V. And like I said, this helps to confirm my sanity at the time. Thanks! Funny thing,... the AMG in either C or E attire seems to be AWOL. Or did I miss something.

The M3 driver was no ringer (you can get more info on him at m3post.com) - hate to say it but the CTS-V driven by Lutz lost to the M3...

Even so, you're still talking about a 77 year old desk jockey whose prolly more at home driving his yacht and a 550+ HP Super Sedan with just as much torque up against a 21 year old kid who lives, breaths and dreams about this stuff.

Embedded link for the Caddy video referenced above:

YouTube - Cadillac V-Series Challenge: The Race

I've had to defend my post over on that BMW forum as well. I was just giving an opinion. I'm not sure of the webster definition of "ringer". I just wanted to explain that this guy has done this before. I play a lot of golf and when you ask someone what they shoot and how often they play and what clubs they use etc. etc. and they give you no info and then come out and kick ass, we call them a sandbagger. Cooper very much down played his level of experience or expertise and some of the BMW sites have spun it like a random dude was driving by the track one morning and stopped by with his M3 and won! I'm just saying that is not the case.

The other spin that is bothering me is not understanding the challenge. Some guys got it some didn't. There are 8 or ten pages of "terms and conditions" you agree to when you click the internet button to sign up for the challenge. It never says, you are racing Bob Lutz only. In fact it clearly states, GM will pick the competition for "business purposes". It also said there will be professional drivers competing. I think it just sounds like sour grapes to just throw out the results above you and say I won. The official results are posted and the M3 was 4th and the M5 was 6th. If you look on the M5 dude's website, carguydad.com (which is a very cool site), It says we're back from the challenge and finished 3rd. There is no discussion or disqualification of the first 3 places on the board, just, "we finished 3rd" How can that be when 5 names are above the M5? You cannot bring a knife to a gunfight and get shot and then say, hey I only had a knife so I win.

Did GM set it up to be a fair fight, no. Did the m3 driver do very well, maybe even unexpectedly well, absolutely yes! Did the BMWs come in 1st and 3rd? NO! Did GM and Lutz get what they wanted out of the event, YES! They wanted to prove the V was worthy of recognition as a true track performer straight off the assembly line, no mods, no upgrades, etc.

I'm certain one of these lines will get plucked out of context and used against me on the BMW forums, so let me just say, I'm a huge fan of those Bmers as well. The participants who knew what they were getting into had a great time. The guys who actually had visions of winning something sound like sour grapes.

wolverine

Here's the thread over on bimmerforums:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=17780122

How the heck did Jack Baruth get himself into this ?? :wtf2:

Well said, Chris.

I would love to see an endurance race with these cars too. I heard the M3 was experiencing brake fade issues after only 3 laps, which is the same concern that Jaguar had with their XF-R. The manual transmissions on M5's have been known to overheat rather quickly. Durability is an important factor to a performance car on the track - at least it is to me.

Well said, Chris.

I would love to see an endurance race with these cars too. I heard the M3 was experiencing brake fade issues after only 3 laps, which is the same concern that Jaguar had with their XF-R. The manual transmissions on M5's have been known to overheat rather quickly. Durability is an important factor to a performance car on the track - at least it is to me.

I know the M3 driver was concerned because while the rest of us were trying to get as many practice laps as possible, he was saving his car. With 20 plus turns I didn't feel like I knew the course till my last lap. He knew the course well enough and was saving his car for the timed laps. (clearly not his first time). He did complain about the brakes on the BMW forum as well. It is something that the BMW loyalists seem to gloss over while talking about his performance. Instead of saying, the M3 needs better brakes, they say he won and only ran two laps. (not because he wanted to only run 2 laps, but because his brakes were gone). I though it was a rather ironic set of posts from people saying the caddy wasn't durable and asking how many of them broke down. I can tell you the only cars that had trouble were the M3 and possibly the Audi, but I think he just needed to let the Audi cool down. I'm not sure what happened with it exactly. There were 5 CTSVs going around the track all day, plus a handful of Monticello instruction cars, then at the end they loaded them up with 4 adults and did it again. They gave rides to all of the press, the drivers, and spectators in some hot laps. I was very pleased to get back in my V and drive 9 1/2 hours home to Ann Arbor straight through. A good bath when I got it home and it looks, smells and feels like the very day I brought it home ast March. I'd say durability is not an issue with this car. I'm going to check and see if I have one of the 03/09 build dates.

I can tell you the Caddy engineers said the M5 could track all day. It has a lot more robust components over the M3. The true car guys enjoyed all of the cars there and each others' company. The ones who made up their own set of rules seem a little bitter about the "fairness" of the whole thing. I would point to the Motor Trend issue that compares the V and the M5 if you are looking for a fair comparison. There is a pretty strong statement there. I believe Motor Trend used the term, SPANKS.- ouch.