View Full Version : That's it. I'm buying a beater.


anonfrank
10-29-09, 11:18 PM
*^^&$%$#$%@ One of my colleagues put a small dent in my rear driver's side door with a scrape. Whoever did this has no respect for others' property! I discovered it today as I was preparing to leave the hospital after work today. It was mid-way up the door, so it must have been an SUV.

There's no way I'm going to be able to keep this car pristine if I continue to use it as a daily driver. First, I get rear-ended, and now this. I am now considering just buying a fracking cheap beater and leaving the V in the garage. This car is an idiot-magnet!

AGH! Now I have to find a detailer to repair the scrape; I can live with the teeny dent.

Florian
10-29-09, 11:19 PM
suck it up, Bob...it happens to all of us.

F

cbloveday
10-29-09, 11:39 PM
been there. If the paint is not damaged where the dent is, call a paintless dent repair guy for that portion. If it was an Suv, could have been a kid or a women with shopping bags and not paying attnetion. Refardless, it happens to us all. Just get it fixed and park on end spots as far away as you can from the car next to you.

No sense in not enjoying the V. They were meant to be enjoyed. Good luck

Jayrcr3
10-29-09, 11:54 PM
Those paintless dent repair guys are amazing. Give one a call.

Punmax
10-29-09, 11:55 PM
*^^&$%$#$%@ One of my colleagues put a small dent in my rear driver's side door with a scrape. Whoever did this has no respect for others' property! I discovered it today as I was preparing to leave the hospital after work today. It was mid-way up the door, so it must have been an SUV.

There's no way I'm going to be able to keep this car pristine if I continue to use it as a daily driver. First, I get rear-ended, and now this. I am now considering just buying a fracking cheap beater and leaving the V in the garage. This car is an idiot-magnet!

AGH! Now I have to find a detailer to repair the scrape; I can live with the teeny dent.


Any cameras?

mpouls1
10-30-09, 01:15 AM
I feel your pain. I park 20 spaces away from any car in the vicinity and of course some toothless hillbilly has to park next to me. I actually bought that scratch remover off TV by Billy whatever his name is. Don't use it folks, it is crap.
So I took my car in with scratches and all and to a detailer and got a good wax and polish. Looks brand new. Save the beater and enjoy the V ;)

Tony407
10-30-09, 03:38 AM
One of my colleagues put a small dent in my rear driver's side door with a scrape.

I didn't know scrapes caused dents.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

That sucks. Every time I park my car I do a quick inspection and I am dreading the day...

Tony

jzchen
10-30-09, 06:40 AM
*^^&$%$#$%@ One of my colleagues put a small dent in my rear driver's side door with a scrape. Whoever did this has no respect for others' property! I discovered it today as I was preparing to leave the hospital after work today. It was mid-way up the door, so it must have been an SUV.

There's no way I'm going to be able to keep this car pristine if I continue to use it as a daily driver. First, I get rear-ended, and now this. I am now considering just buying a fracking cheap beater and leaving the V in the garage. This car is an idiot-magnet!

AGH! Now I have to find a detailer to repair the scrape; I can live with the teeny dent.


Hospital? My wife trained at Metro and just finished this June. I hope it wasn't there. The people there were really nice!

MReiland
10-30-09, 06:57 AM
On my last Cadillac, I always parked WAY out in the lot where there was no one around it to dent it, and I always parked straight in the spot so as not to attract anyone who wants to teach me a lesson for not parking straight. I head out for lunch and see a beat up Caravan next to it and think what the he11, then when I get up near the car there is a lady working on paperwork in the car with her door open UP AGAINST MY CAR, for crying out load, the WHOLE parking lot is available. We had some words, there didn't appear to be any damage. I just can not for the life of me understand some people and their complete total disrespect for other peoples property. Even more funny is I am now parking my BEATER out in the corner of the lot at work cause it was taking on too many door dings, sigh.....

wfo
10-30-09, 07:17 AM
Bob...feel your pain...really do. There's absolutely nothing wrong in expecting that people be considerate when opening doors.

Now Bob. You work at a hospital, right?. There are, a bunch of sickos there to begin with. Can you park it further away and take the walk? It's healthier, burns more calories too. Unless there is a security risk being further out. Then I'd say...hmmmmyou might be S.O.L.

CIWS
10-30-09, 07:28 AM
If it's a daily driver it's going to get beat up, there's just no way to avoid it.

If the population in general doesn't care about the effect they have on others they're certainly not going to give a second thought to smacking your car with their door.

radix
10-30-09, 10:06 AM
As much as I like the clean look of clean smooth door styling these days, the manufacturers have given us an impossible task to keep them looking that way.

even a thin trim strip ala V1 is a huge benefit to keep the doors clean (still no car I have ever had attracted door dings like my V1 - thank gov for the paintless dent repair guy).

between the use of super shiny console trims and defenseless doors, it is really really hard to keep any modern stylish car looking pristine these days...:rant2:

anonfrank
10-30-09, 10:59 AM
I feel much better this morning, and thank you for allowing me to vent about such a minor thing. I just have rotten luck, I guess. I'm the dude who at the grocery store routinely parks at the furthest edge of the lot......and comes back to find himself surrounded by SUVs.

I am lucky that at my office I have an assigned end space and a colleague/parking neighbor who is more freakish about keeping his car spotless than I am. He actually pays a guy even DURING THE WINTER to come by and clean his car every week. I guess I'm not in that income bracket yet. :)

Bob...feel your pain...really do. There's absolutely nothing wrong in expecting that people be considerate when opening doors.

Now Bob. You work at a hospital, right?. There are, a bunch of sickos there to begin with. Can you park it further away and take the walk? It's healthier, burns more calories too. Unless there is a security risk being further out. Then I'd say...hmmmmyou might be S.O.L.

No can do. Have to be able to park close in case there's an emergency at another facility.

I think a single thin plastic strip of body side molding would be a great addition for this car.

Superior Cadillac
10-30-09, 12:11 PM
I feel your pain too. I have had it happen to me..

Gary Wells
10-30-09, 12:55 PM
anonfrank:
truly sorry to hear, and I do feel your pain, as I am one of those who are also pained by the same thing. To me nothing or very little is as beautiful as a pristine vehicle of any vintage. I am going to go against the grain of probably everybody here and agree with you about the benefits of a DD POS. Mine is an '02 vette ZO6, 86K miles, a few scrapes here, power seat no longer works, clutch springs are starting to feel some age, you get the idea. However it has served great as a DD since it's second year of ownership. And it allows me to keep my other 2 vehicles reasonably pristine, clean, & respectable. It is worthwhile to me to have 2 pristine and 1 DD POS than 3 mediocre cars, all nice, at least 1 and maybe 2 better than nice, but none pristine vehicles. I feel the same way about my '09CTS-V. HTH, and I certainly hope that you people that don't feel the same way understand.

V-Eight
10-30-09, 01:18 PM
I feel your pain. I park 20 spaces away from any car in the vicinity and of course some toothless hillbilly has to park next to me.

Too many a**holes do this

mpouls1
10-30-09, 11:43 PM
I didn't know scrapes caused dents.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

That sucks. Every time I park my car I do a quick inspection and I am dreading the day...

Tony

LOL. You're right. It was bowling night and probably shouldn't have been perusing the forums... blame it on the...

tedcmiller
10-31-09, 11:04 AM
anonfrank, in his initial post, suggests that a "colleague" damaged his car. In the next sentence he says "whoever did this..." suggesting that he doesn't know who did it, "colleague" or otherwise. I agree with all of the posters that this sort of thing is uncalled for, but, as indicated by many posters, it is a fact of life (many people don't care about your car and will, in fact, go out of their way to damage it if it gets their attention - as a 2009 Cadillac CTS-V ususally does). The point is that the assumption that a "colleague" did it, without any proof, might annoy actual colleagues to the point that they will go out of their way to get revenge.

GMX322V S/C
10-31-09, 03:47 PM
If it was an employees' parking lot, it would narrow the set to supposed colleagues.

Autom8r
10-31-09, 05:31 PM
I hate it for ya but I now know at least I'm not alone. My V has been a magnet for having the whole right side sheet metal pulled back in a parking lot. Within 2 days of having that fixed a truck backed his trailer hitch receiver into my front bumper cover leaving a nasty 2" square black mar on my shiny platinum ride, within another couple of days I got a very obvious deep ding in my passenger door. Week B4 last a big white dog busted out of the bushes in front of me doing 50. I had a split second to brake (damn good brakes) and glanced in my rear view in time to see the dog I thought I had killed leave the scene of the accident, black plastic fender liner and the bottom of my windshield wiper reservoir flying through the air behind me and a telephone talking tailgating soccer mom sliding sideways at me in a cloud of her tiresmoke. I got back on it B4 she hit me.......

Did $3,400.00 in damage to my V....... and my daily driver is a '97 Jeep Wrangler.................

Dave

Mike 09 V
10-31-09, 08:08 PM
Okay here's my tale of woe. 5500 miles on the 09 without a single flaw in the paint. Yesterday I take wifey and go to a hamburger joint/bar a couple miles away. They have the very best old fashioned hamburgers. They also have a dirt/gravel parking lot. I have been there before and worst case I get a little dust on the car but the California duster steps up and does the job. Well yesterday as I was pulling in this A-hole in a Dodge pickup does a 270 degree brodie in the lot and I took about 30 rocks on the drivers side of the car. I chased after the bast-rd but he was driving so fast that I couldn't safely catch him without committing a super major speeding felony. He had gone down a street with a 25mph limit and I backed off at 75mph. Then the paved part of the road ran out and became a graded dirt road and I didn't have the heart or desire to take the car out in the desert on a dirt road, plus I didn't know if the clown had a gun or what. I just couldn't get close enough to get his license plate. Fortunately he was in caravan with another guy who left from the same lot at the same time so I got that guys license plate number. The bad guy and his pal had quads in the back. The bad guys was in his bed and the buddy was pulling a trailer. I went back to the restaurant and found a whole crowd of people outside. It turns out that they were in the place and heard the rocks banging off the outside of the building. When they checked their cars they found broken windows, dents, broken rear view mirrors. One of the vehicles damaged was a Hummer 2 and another was a new Ford pickup and a third was a Hyundai sedan. It so happens that the owner of the Hummer was there with another guy and they were both in an off road club and the other guy had a Jeep. So the guy with the Jeep headed back down the road and onto the dirt part. It turns out the road was a dead end in the desert, and the perps in question apparently had it in mind that they were going 4 wheeling and must have figured that since I turned back they were in the clear. So they were out riding when the guy in the Jeep showed up. He found the truck with the license # I had copied and the other truck right alongside. He had a camera and took the picture of the trucks and their license plates. The police came and the officer that responded had a 4 wheel drive Tahoe for a cruiser and he went after the guys. I will find out next week what happened. Meantime my baby was lucky and has some minor rock chips in the paint, worst being about 1/32" in diameter, very small. There are about 6-7 of them. It doesn't look like there are any actual dents, so I was a whole lot luckier than the other victims. Now I have to decide what to do about it. I have a $500 deductible and I don't know at this point about the other guys insurance. Seems to me the whole car ought to get painted as a patch job will show up I fear. What do you guys think? It's black Raven by the way.

Gary Wells
10-31-09, 08:56 PM
I would worry that if your insurance is forced to pay for a paint job, or any paint work is accomplished that it would never be completed to my satisfaction, so I'm thinking that Quads don't have locking gas caps and the hamburger joint / bar has containers of sugar. That's just me though.

tedcmiller
10-31-09, 09:13 PM
I think the key word here is "supposed." Neither the original poster nor you know for sure who did this. I stand by my assertion that identifying the perpetrator(s) as a "colleague" might cause more problems than it is worth.

anonfrank
10-31-09, 09:42 PM
anonfrank, in his initial post, suggests that a "colleague" damaged his car. In the next sentence he says "whoever did this..." suggesting that he doesn't know who did it, "colleague" or otherwise. I agree with all of the posters that this sort of thing is uncalled for, but, as indicated by many posters, it is a fact of life (many people don't care about your car and will, in fact, go out of their way to damage it if it gets their attention - as a 2009 Cadillac CTS-V ususally does). The point is that the assumption that a "colleague" did it, without any proof, might annoy actual colleagues to the point that they will go out of their way to get revenge.

I'm sure that what happened was an accident, and the only folks in the parking lot are my colleagues. :) I still wish whoever it was had been more careful in opening their door, though. I'm mostly annoyed at how unpristine my new car has become when it's not even a year old yet. It was 2 1/2 years before anything similar happened to my last car. I suppose I'm anal retentive about the looks of my cars that way.

Dave and Mike, I'm glad to hear I'm not alone, though Dave.....major OUCH compared to mine. That must hurt.

You can see the dent in the center of the rear door.
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4230/img0142jz.jpg

The scratch from afar
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6838/img0141c.jpg

The scratch up close (macro shot on my new G11) :) , cropped but not resized.
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/6772/img0136je.jpg

I can live with the teeny dent. Since the clearcoat doesn't appear to be badly damaged, I think it'll take just a good detailer to fix the scratch?

Bob

mugatu22
10-31-09, 11:45 PM
Amazing how one can drive a beater and never get a door ding or rock chip for years...and then purchase a nice car, take wonderful care of it, and have every a-hole in the universe bang their doors into yours or spit rocks all over your ride. Murphy's law...

Autom8r
11-01-09, 08:48 AM
Anonfrank,
If there is a dent below the scratch, it looks like a paintless dent repair guy can fix it. If no dent and just a clearcoat scratch, you can rub it out with about an hour's worth of work with polishing compound. After a trip to Price's Collision Center and $3,400.00 mine looks like new again all over with perfect paint match.

Dave

Gary Wells
11-01-09, 11:50 AM
anonfrank:
How long is that scratch, tip to tip?

Tony407
11-01-09, 05:24 PM
Mike 09V,
I would keep in contact with the police and file a report with them as I'm sure will the others at the restaurant. I'd want my car returned to new condition, no question about it. Even if the other guy doesn't have insurance, you'd have a great case in small claims court to get him to cover your deductible.

Tony

anonfrank
11-01-09, 05:56 PM
^^^^^^^
Concur.

Gary, it was 2 inches. The macro setting on my camera works really well (was testing the new camera out).

I lucked out--I bought some Quixx scratch remover today, and it really works. It removed 98% of the scratch. I can see only a small dot on the left side of where the scratch was, and that only in certain light conditions. The dent I think I'll leave alone for now as it looks too small for even an over-the-counter dent puller.

Gary Wells
11-01-09, 06:20 PM
anonfrank:
I'm glad to hear that most of the scrape came out. I would not even try to get even a small dent out on my own. I do feel your pain though. I wonder if these cars are some type of damage magnet as there seems to be a lot of them to me to end up with bad luck body damage, collisions, rear ended, & etc.
I do own a beater for that reason, and even on top of that I refuse to take the turbo Buick or even the Cad to work even for a day. Shopping only in the very early AM, that kind of thing. You're not alone regarding your concerns about the car.

radix
11-01-09, 10:22 PM
^^^^^^^
Concur.

Gary, it was 2 inches. The macro setting on my camera works really well (was testing the new camera out).

I lucked out--I bought some Quixx scratch remover today, and it really works. It removed 98% of the scratch. I can see only a small dot on the left side of where the scratch was, and that only in certain light conditions. The dent I think I'll leave alone for now as it looks too small for even an over-the-counter dent puller.\

I am not sure what you mean by over-the counter dent puller" - but if you are unfamiliar with paintless dent repair services, you really should take that in to one - they basically massage dents like that out from the back side with special tools - and even under very good light it will look perfect. I would guess the charge would be $70 or so around here (detroit).

try it you will like it.

Mike 09 V
11-02-09, 09:31 AM
Mike 09V,
I would keep in contact with the police and file a report with them as I'm sure will the others at the restaurant. I'd want my car returned to new condition, no question about it. Even if the other guy doesn't have insurance, you'd have a great case in small claims court to get him to cover your deductible.

Tony
Yeah they were there and took all the pertinent info from us vics. I have the business card of the officer, so I will keep on top of it. I wonder if his insurance will cover it since it wasn't an accident on his part but a deliberate act?

Mike 09 V
11-02-09, 09:36 AM
. I'm mostly annoyed at how unpristine my new car has become when it's not even a year old yet. It was 2 1/2 years before anything similar happened to my last car. I suppose I'm anal retentive about the looks of my cars that way.

Dave and Mike, I'm glad to hear I'm not alone, though Dave.....major OUCH compared to mine. That must hurt.

Bob

I had just taken delivery on a brand new 92' Park Avenue Ultra and Wifey and I decided to stop and get something to eat at a family restaurant. As I looked out the window at my beautiful new car an A-hole opened his door and dented the door of my car! I hadn't had it for more than 45 minutes! he was leaving and before I could even get out there he was gone. Needless to say my food was tasteless after that.

cjwolverine
11-02-09, 10:49 AM
I feel your pain. I absolutely cannot stand it, and I'm dreading the day, I get my first ding. I have been driving for 22 years and I guarantee you I have never, ever, put my paint on another persons car. I cannot fathom the disrespect some people have for another's property. Feel free to vent anytime.

chris

chopmeat
11-02-09, 11:55 AM
It's funny because I'm out looking for a beater now.
I just don't take the V out to places where it'll get damaged.
I also park ridiculously far away.

Tony407
11-02-09, 12:34 PM
To help offset the hopelessness of it all, I would like to suggest a way to help make a difference. EVERYONE needs to monitor this activity. If you see someone (and who hasn't) ding another car with their door, you approach that person and demand they find the owner to tell them they just damaged another person's car. If that doesn't work, get their license plate and description and leave a note on the victim's car telling them you'll be a witness if need be. I've done this probably a dozen times in my lifetime and it feels really good. Wouldn't it be nice if you came out to your car and found a note from a good samaritan who saw someone dent your car and went out of their way to help you hold them accountable? "Dear Cadillac owner. I just saw the driver of a black Ford Taurus, license plate IMAJERK, dent your front passenger door with his front driver's door. He was in his 50's, white hair, heavy build, glasses. This happened on 11/2/09 at 11:19 a.m. Here's my number, call if you need my testimony."

Tony

radix
11-02-09, 03:09 PM
To help offset the hopelessness of it all, I would like to suggest a way to help make a difference. EVERYONE needs to monitor this activity. If you see someone (and who hasn't) ding another car with their door, you approach that person and demand they find the owner to tell them they just damaged another person's car. If that doesn't work, get their license plate and description and leave a note on the victim's car telling them you'll be a witness if need be. I've done this probably a dozen times in my lifetime and it feels really good. Wouldn't it be nice if you came out to your car and found a note from a good samaritan who saw someone dent your car and went out of their way to help you hold them accountable? "Dear Cadillac owner. I just saw the driver of a black Ford Taurus, license plate IMAJERK, dent your front passenger door with his front driver's door. He was in his 50's, white hair, heavy build, glasses. This happened on 11/2/09 at 11:19 a.m. Here's my number, call if you need my testimony."

Tony

what always amazes me is the stupid blank looks some people give after they smash your door and you call them on it.

It just doesn't seem to register that they just did $500-1000 of damage to your car (non dentless repairable) - its almost like door damage isn't "real".

on the passenger side front door of my car some idiot put such a sharp dent it looks almost like it was done with a pick axe - it is so close to the front weld seam that the paintless guy cant get it out. As a work around I have stuck one of those square GM badges over it - where it is it looks sorta factory... too early to have the entire door repainted.:shhh:

Tony407
11-03-09, 01:28 AM
It just doesn't seem to register that they just did $500-1000 of damage to your car (non dentless repairable) - its almost like door damage isn't "real".


Or they give you the attitude that "it happens to everyone" and that it's somehow part of life so just forget about the fact that I did something to your car that was completely avoidable.

Tony

Prof
11-03-09, 07:53 AM
Bob, I have two garage queens...I would kill (figuratively) if someone scraped or dented one of them...

When I bought the V2 I resolved that it would be a daily driver and that I would accept snow, dirt, scrapes, dents etc.

The temptation to keep it pristine was strong...but I had resolved that it would be a daily driver no matter what...because it is do damn fun to drive...I console myself when parking...that if I get a scrape or dent...I will be able to vent my frustration with an incredible amount of flare and exhilaration!

Drive it like you stole it friends...it is an incredible ride! When the inevitable happens...get 'em fixed and never look back...because all you will see is smoke from those rear tires!

09V
11-03-09, 08:57 AM
Hey, just save the money from the beater purchase and hire a bouncer to kick anyone's ass that touches your car! People that have that kind of disregard amaze me. Darwinism and the survival of the fittest no longer applies in today's society.
Some people's kids!!!

RapidRob
11-03-09, 10:43 PM
I lucked out--I bought some Quixx scratch remover today, and it really works. It removed 98% of the scratch. I can see only a small dot on the left side of where the scratch was, and that only in certain light conditions. The dent I think I'll leave alone for now as it looks too small for even an over-the-counter dent puller.

I just picked up some of the, "Quixx", paint scratch remover, AND, some Quixx acrylic scratch remover for head-light covers, and maybe some of the plastic plastic interior pieces as well. Haven't had a chance to try the stuff yet, but from your report, it sounds like good stuff, (albeit a bit expensive ...).

I have some very minor paint scratches I need to clean up, and the ebony plastic interior pieces, despite my best efforts, have a few fine scratches in places. Hopefully the Quixx acrylic scratch remover will work just as well ... !

Rob

Prof
11-04-09, 03:47 AM
Keep us posted on the results...before and after pics would be helpful...my black plastic is getting marred around the round controls...maybe I need to start using the voice recognition rather than my hands!

anonfrank
11-04-09, 07:10 AM
The temptation to keep it pristine was strong...but I had resolved that it would be a daily driver no matter what...because it is do damn fun to drive...

Agree with this. :) It's sometimes hard to maintain the resolve when you know other people aren't as careful getting out of their car. I just have to redouble my efforts to park at the far end of the parking lots, I guess.

As far as the Quixx, I'm surprised it worked as well as it did, and I am glad that these were only flesh wounds rather than deep gouges. Will keep some around for those inevitable scratches.

Chubbilicious420
11-04-09, 09:40 AM
I am selling my late 99 riviera beater with an aftermarket supercharger pulley on autotrader,,,,

Da Dark Jedi
11-06-09, 01:02 PM
I feel your pain. I park 20 spaces away from any car in the vicinity and of course some toothless hillbilly has to park next to me. I actually bought that scratch remover off TV by Billy whatever his name is. Don't use it folks, it is crap.
So I took my car in with scratches and all and to a detailer and got a good wax and polish. Looks brand new. Save the beater and enjoy the V ;)


I remember doing the exact same thing. I parked on the other end of shopping mall (7/8 of a blk walk) to the nearest store. Came back 1 hour later someone with an old beater pick-up truck parked next to my driver door to prevent me from entering it, had to crawl from passenger side just to sit behide the wheel. It's like that EVERYWHERE! Be gratefull there's not a elementary school nearby, it could get worst.

Gary Wells
11-06-09, 08:39 PM
I always find a place or spot where the driver side of the car is blocked where no car can get next to at least that side. At Wal-mart, it means about a 250 yard walk.

Tony407
11-06-09, 10:33 PM
I always find a place or spot where the driver side of the car is blocked where no car can get next to at least that side. At Wal-mart, it means about a 250 yard walk.

Wal Mart???? I would NEVER park my V at Wal Mart. It's a car's worst nightmare.

Tony

anonfrank
11-07-09, 09:03 AM
^^^^^^
LOL!
I was just at Wal-Mart a few days ago myself to get some school stuff for my son. Ours is a mega-center (or whatever they call those big ones) and I parked all the way in the back, with no cars around me......

....and for once, no one parked near me. :)

Mike 09 V
11-07-09, 10:31 AM
I suggest you Google some of the scratch removers online. There is a comparison of the Quixx product against some other ones; photos and U-Tube as well. Then decide.

Gary Wells
11-07-09, 10:01 PM
Wal Mart???? I would NEVER park my V at Wal Mart. It's a car's worst nightmare.

Tony
The biggest problem that I have with Wal_Mart is that they hire all old people my age so there are very few young girls to ogle.

mpouls1
11-08-09, 02:14 AM
The biggest problem that I have with Wal_Mart is that they hire all old people my age so there are very few young girls to ogle.

LOL...I just spit my beer all over the keyboard

chukk
11-08-09, 03:17 AM
Just an fyi, if you do go out of your way and witness someone and leave a note, please leave your contact info.... I once had someone leave me a note giving me the license plate of someone who left me a dent, and a nice amount of their paint on my bumper. I was so happy that someone witnessed it. When I called the police and wasted a couple of hours, they would not even pay a visit to the address of the license plate holder who was identified on the note. They said that since the person who wrote the note did not leave their name/number, there was nothing that they could do....even though I had a significant amount of their paint on my bumper, they would not even run the plate. Needless to say, I hang up when the fraternal order of police calls for donations.