: The Right to Repair



Sevillian273
10-25-09, 09:55 PM
Watch the video. I agree 100%. BS.

http://www.righttorepair.org/

Stingroo
10-25-09, 10:03 PM
That makes perfect sense. Sent the emails too.

dkozloski
10-25-09, 10:09 PM
The American dream is to get your customers over a barrel so you can slip it to them. It's the American way.

orconn
10-25-09, 11:51 PM
Interesting question as it pertains to the Anti-trust Laws of the U.S.; i.e. does the control of information pertaining to the safe operation of a privately owned vehicle constitute an illegal monopoly of after sale maintenance of the vehicle by agents of the vehicles manufacturer. If so is this a violation of existing "competition law" under the Anti-Trust Acts as they exist today?

Florian
10-26-09, 01:33 AM
excellent posit, Orconn.

F

ewill3rd
10-26-09, 07:34 AM
These people are idiots.
How little of understanding everyone has, I am so tired of this rhetoric.

It isn't a consumer rights issue, it isn't unfair.
The freedom of information act makes all the information available to everyone, it is manufacturer copyrighted information and if you want it you can buy access to it for a very affordable price.
Dealerships have such high overhead costs for things that independent shops don't have to pay for. If the aftermarket wants to invest a little money they can have access to everything we have. The issue here is that they want the information but they don't want to chip in on the cost of creating this information. In the traditional way they want access to the information for free so they can make money without having to invest everything.

I have to hand it to them though, pretty good manipulation of some misinformation.
PS, this battle has been going on for a long time, it is nothing new.

Carmakers pay for all the R&D, production, setting everything up and the indies want access to it all for free.
That way they can undercut everyone.
Oh and gee how interesting that this is a commercial for Napa Auto Parts... :lol:

RightTurn
10-26-09, 01:37 PM
People are always willing to jump on the bandwagon with only half the story. :coffee: (Sort of like the last presidential election, lol.)

orconn
10-26-09, 03:01 PM
If ewill3rd is saying is true, and I have no reason to doubt his statement, then there would be no reason for special legislation or anti-trust action. Under our system the developer and marketer of a product certainly have the right to profit from their industry so long as their distribution of their product does not result in a monopoly and the restraint of fair trade. If the information to repair certain automobiles is available on a fee basis to potential competitors their would be no attempt at monopoly by the practice.

The Tony Show
10-26-09, 03:03 PM
All the Technical Service Bulletins and repair procedures can be purchased from GM for a yearly "subscription" fee. Even if they buy it though, there's still the issue of whether or not your local "Bob's Fix-a-car" is going to spend the time and money to not only stock their shop with the specialty tools needed to work on these cars, but also train their techs in the proper use of them.

ewill3rd
10-26-09, 04:50 PM
Oh man don't even get me started on training.
When I go to NYC to the training center it costs big money, and if we don't train GM holds us over a barrel on warranty.

Don't get me wrong, I came from the aftermarket, that's really why I know what these guys are crying about.
I have been on both sides of this argument. The guys at the Indies have it tough, but how many times have I seen people come in and they say "oh well they told me I needed this and that and that and this other thing so I paid them to put it all on but they can't fix it so they told me to bring it to you"?
In fact I had one of those last week.
It took me 20 minutes to verify what I already knew when I saw the complaint and about another hour to fix what this guy had already paid likely over a thousand bucks to address.

Those guys have access to all the stuff I have access to, they just have to pay for it and they don't want to, they want it handed to them.
The fact that Napa auto parts has a hand in this is even more suspicious. I can tell you what they are after, they want to get factory parts without having to buy them so they can undercut the dealer. That would be my estimation anyway.

All this came up about 3 years ago and the big 3 have already made huge concessions. Not to mention no independent shop will "refuse" to work on the car as the video indicated, but they should tell you when you have a problem that they are not equipped to address.
Sorry to rant, another sore spot for me.
I hate whiners.
:lol:

the recluse
10-27-09, 10:33 PM
I agree with ewillard, that's like all the R&D that goes into a specialty shock (Caddies for instance) and Monroe wanting all the specs to replicate because they don't want to pay the R&D themselves. There is a reason aftermarket doesn't act (or last) exactly like OEM on anything.

In a land that is as sue happy as ours, you know this wouldn't last 10 mins if true; yet I also remember this issue going back at least 10 years now...

No different then downloading music off the net, pay the copyright fees and enjoy all you want, or be "the other guy"...:suspect:

thebigjimsho
05-26-11, 10:02 AM
All the Technical Service Bulletins and repair procedures can be purchased from GM for a yearly "subscription" fee. Even if they buy it though, there's still the issue of whether or not your local "Bob's Fix-a-car" is going to spend the time and money to not only stock their shop with the specialty tools needed to work on these cars, but also train their techs in the proper use of them.
I've been hearing the commercials again. And it seems like a slam dunk for the Indies when you hear the simple rhetoric. When it was up last time, I asked the stepfather of a close friend who owned his own shop and now owns a bay in a local shop. This guy is on the up and up and is an excellent mechanic who I take my Town Car to when it gets out of warranty.

He's against it. He invests much of his money in getting all the right tools and software. He has all the information he needs and it serves him well. Like ewill and Tony said, this information is already available on a subscription basis. The current system separates the legits from the cheap ass bastards...

Submariner409
05-26-11, 12:14 PM
Tools - special tools. Not sure how and when a brand dealership receives and/or pays for vehicle-specific special tools from the vehicle manufacturer, but there are several web sites that sell the same tools to the public. I have a couple of Northstar-specific tools, and they aren't cheap. If an independent wants a tool they can buy it - but to require a manufacturer to GIVE the tools away is a bit much.

concorso
05-26-11, 01:34 PM
People are always willing to jump on the bandwagon with only half the story. :coffee: (Sort of like the last presidential election, lol.)Heres an example of the problem with politics. "If you dont agree, you obviously dont understand or have the full knowledgebase." I know quite few people who voted for Obama, not because they liked him, but because they were much less comfortable with the alternative. Sarah Palin helped Obama as much as anyone...

concorso
05-26-11, 01:40 PM
Is that about consumers getting access to these tools, or independent shops getting access?

ewill3rd
05-26-11, 04:35 PM
Based on my understanding it is for independent shops.
I know a lot of manufacturers, and even some of the others like alldata offer single car access to service information for a small subscription fee.
Also many tools can be borrowed or rented from local parts houses.
It is a sham.

gdwriter
05-26-11, 05:26 PM
I know my mechanic subscribes to a service (maybe more than one) to get all the latest technical data. I wonder the the ASE stands on this? My mechanic is ASE-certified (I wouldn't go to one that isn't) and AAA-approved, and he's proven very fair and trustworthy over the past six years.

Corvallis no longer has a Cadillac (or Chevrolet) dealership, the nearest is 40 miles away is in Salem, and the Cadillac dealer when I bought the Seville is a half-hour north of my house, making it an hour from Corvallis. So even if I wanted to have mine serviced at a dealership, it's not a practical option for me (although since the service department at the dealership in McMinnville is open on Saturday, I have taken advantage of a couple of service specials in the past).

Sevillian273
05-26-11, 08:38 PM
People are always willing to jump on the bandwagon with only half the story. :coffee: (Sort of like the last presidential election, lol.)

Agreed. I'm an idiot. If there was any of my threads that I could delete, it would be this one.

This is why we dont drink beer and post new threads, folks. :thumbsup:

thebigjimsho
05-26-11, 11:13 PM
Agreed. I'm an idiot. If there was any of my threads that I could delete, it would be this one.

This is why we dont drink beer and post new threads, folks. :thumbsup:
Don't sweat it. This is one of those threads that takes off on its own. We'll forget all about you...

RightTurn
05-27-11, 01:45 AM
Agreed. I'm an idiot. If there was any of my threads that I could delete, it would be this one.

This is why we dont drink beer and post new threads, folks. :thumbsup:

I like beer. :alchi:

DouglasJRizzo
05-27-11, 07:39 AM
My mechanic has a shop that is as well equipped as any. He has all the scanners, literature and training. He's so good, that two of the local GM dealers send him the "problem children" that they can't fix. So much for being shut out.