: headgasket being repaired



coaster
10-24-09, 12:26 AM
put car in the shop a week ago today charging me 1900 with inserts talk to him today and he sent the heads to the machine shop just to make sure there not warped he said very seldom that happens. the gasket on the back side had a small leak should be ready in acouple weeks for that price i cant complain.my sister and her husband and my mom been going to him for years has worked on northstars and said he has done 5 heads jobs so say a prayer for me will keep tou posted

00 Deville
10-24-09, 01:45 AM
That's a real good price you need to share with us where your at and what kind of inserts he's using. (timesert's or Norm's)

coaster
10-24-09, 02:33 AM
I told him that norminsert are what i want put in my sls only thing i have to pay for the insert but i dont mind i live in sacramento ca and the shop is in turlock ca about 90miles south of sac soon as i get the car out of the shop i will post his address and number if every thing goes wright Ill keep you posted thank you:yup:

eyekandyboats.inc
10-24-09, 01:19 PM
should have used the search icon first, norm serts arent as good as the studs from www.northstarperformance.com
they are what you want!

97EldoCoupe
10-24-09, 06:31 PM
Make sure you go with either Norm's or my studs. Both are proven, I've heard/seen of one failure with Norm's but don't know about any more. I simply don't like inserts at all. I just did the HG's on a car from Ohio, it left yesterday morning. The HG's were done twice at Harmon Cadillac. Both heads once, one head twice. One side had the 1st repair timeserts and the other had the 2nd repair timeserts. Guess what? All 5 bolts on the top row; that were in the 2nd repair inserts, let go. There was still enough meat in the block to drill and tap for the studs. The car is running great again. That was the first time I received a hug from one of my customers! :)

If the 2nd time they try inserts, it fails again, it tells you something. I wish you the best of luck in which ever type of repair you choose.

Oh Taylor, give me a call Monday morning about your TCC issue- I'll need a complete list of your PCM codes. Thanks man.

chacenbra
10-24-09, 06:39 PM
At $1900.00 I would make sure that he is repairing all the holes and not just the ones that need it..

97EldoCoupe
10-24-09, 07:25 PM
Exactly chacenbra - because they ALL need it, even if the tech says the holes look OK.

coaster
10-24-09, 11:25 PM
thank you for the info i was tring to get my car to 97eldo but to far so had to sgo from thereand ettle for this job close to home will call the shop and recommend the studs and see if i can order them from 97eldo and ship them the my mecanic monday morning i will call him at 8am and go from there thanks guys

jcresciSTS
10-25-09, 02:31 AM
Let me know the price he gives you when you say you want the studs instead.

I live in the Bay Area and if it happens to my car it would be nice to know a shop close by can do it

coaster
10-26-09, 12:10 AM
i will let you know monday jcrescists

mikelawson
10-26-09, 10:53 AM
It's unfair to say Norms are not as good as Jake's studs. It's OK to compare and contrast the differences, but in all accounts you know that it's the aluminum threads in the block that fail and never the insert itself, so if both studs and inserts are the same 5/8X11 thread, just how is it that Jake's is automatically better? I have nothing against his studs, but I have used Norm's exclusively with no failures on over 30 cars, with some that are approaching 2 years and 60,000 miles. Honestly, what's the difference between using Norms inserts with ARP head studs vs Jake's studs? Nothing... The "one piece" stud has as many disadvantages and it does advantages. Jake should know that the gaskets are the weak point. Every car has had terrible head gaskets, the graphite simply gets destroyed. If block porosity is the problem, why is it that all the other bolts in the engine doesn't strip? If someone wanted to spend the extra money on studs, I would highly recommend using a MLS gasket. They are the reason you don't see Fords 4.6 having the same issue. Nearly all new engines use these gaskets, so if people are wanting their car to last 15 years instead of the 10 as it did from the factory, using similar gaskets with a different tension mechanism is not going to permanetly fix the problem. I have repaired many vehicles that all 20 head bolts are 100% tight, so in theory if it were 10 years in the future and those were studs would those gaskets have not failed? I am currently working on a 98 Deville with 78k miles on it and it is a perfect example of that, all bolts snapped really hard upon removal, but had trashed head gaskets. I plan on using Jake's studs for customers who request them so I'm not biased nor have any affiliation with Norm, it's just his inserts are the most cost effective repair method available, and to some saving money is their main concern especially given the information that both are likely to last just as long. Honestly I'm not trying to start any wars here, I just want accurate and honest information given to people. Sorry for the long post.

Submariner409
10-26-09, 02:14 PM
FWIW I use ARP studs and metal sandwich gaskets in high performance Olds455 boat engines and have never had a failure, and some of those studs wind up in Helicoils because of rusted, wrung-off head bolts where some doofus has tried to drill out the busted bolt threads and missed the center, eating the threads out of half the bolt hole. It is nothing less than a PITA to try and re-center a head bolt hole in the block after someone redrills it off-center. (Helicoils in an iron block are OK, but never in an aluminum block.)

I imagine ARP studs in Norm's inserts OR Jake's studs would equally be the Northstar equivalent of the above.

coaster
10-26-09, 03:34 PM
talk to mecanic this morning and he said he order norm inserts should be there in couple days so just have to wait and hope every thing goes rite.i just want my sls to be fixed so i can enjoy my power that it has.

97EldoCoupe
10-26-09, 04:34 PM
There is simply no comparison for a one piece repair. I am obviously biased but as far as inserts go, Norm's are the best design.

I personally have something against Norm simply for some of the things he's stated about me and the studs on his ebay listings, but that's competition for you.

Coaster I wish you the best with your SLS.

coaster
10-31-09, 01:05 AM
thanks 97eldocoupe thats all i want is for my car to run and enjoy it ithink studs are the best way to go but it is what it is i will let every body know how it turns out.

robhersch
11-09-09, 03:34 AM
Make sure you go with either Norm's or my studs. Both are proven, I've heard/seen of one failure with Norm's but don't know about any more. I simply don't like inserts at all. I just did the HG's on a car from Ohio, it left yesterday morning. The HG's were done twice at Harmon Cadillac. Both heads once, one head twice. One side had the 1st repair timeserts and the other had the 2nd repair timeserts. Guess what? All 5 bolts on the top row; that were in the 2nd repair inserts, let go. There was still enough meat in the block to drill and tap for the studs. The car is running great again. That was the first time I received a hug from one of my customers! :)

If the 2nd time they try inserts, it fails again, it tells you something. I wish you the best of luck in which ever type of repair you choose.....

We have a 1999 Concours, and we would like to have the N* checked for headgaskets, etc; but we have not been able to find any info on a Northstar Headgasket repair shop in Southern California (near Disneyland). Any suggestions??
Thanks, robhersch

Submariner409
11-09-09, 08:44 AM
If by "have the N* checked for headgaskets" you mean that you want rule out the possibility that the car now has bad gaskets, either take the car to a radiator shop for a block test or buy ($45) a block test kit at a NAPA store and do the test yourself - you're looking for exhaust gas in the airspace over the coolant in the expansion tank.

Is there any reason to think you may have a bad gasket ? Overheating, coolant loss, excess tailpipe vapor after warmup ?

coaster
11-18-09, 03:42 PM
Im mad as hell this mecanic is full of sh-t he lied to me and tried to put the head on with out the inserts and two of the bolts did not hold :banghead: and he did not order the norm inserts so im very upset at myself for not checking his background better went to the shop to see what was taking to long and my car was up in the air on the rack.wish I had the money to send it to97eldocoup but thats out so dont know what to do. I dont trust this guy at all. he said that he was trying to go the cheaper way to save me money but that is not what I wanted I wanted the inserts.so now i want the studs he said he will put them in but should I trust him? hell NO:mad2:need your thoughts thanks

chacenbra
11-18-09, 11:52 PM
Sound like he was trying to save himself some labor time...

If I where you I would tell him that you want him to call you BEFORE the heads go on so that you can come down and inspect his work before the motor gets buttoned up.

I think this is the only way to make sure it gets done right.

mikelawson
11-19-09, 01:32 PM
Where are you located?

coaster
11-19-09, 01:39 PM
chacenbra I agree thats the only way.thank you

chacenbra
11-19-09, 03:20 PM
No problem sir. I hope you have better luck in the coming days.

coaster
11-19-09, 10:47 PM
mikelawson i live in sacramento ca. the mecanic is going to take the engine out and send it the machine shop and have the inserts put in and i pay the machine shop 700$ so when the motor come out i will go to the machine shop and the day its ready and pay them. and go from there i had a long talk with the mecanic today so we will see nobody want to fill like they been had and thats how i feel.

mikelawson
11-23-09, 08:04 PM
Sorry, the mechanic definitely should have been more upfront with you. On the Northstar, it's best to find someone who is specializes in these engines. I do find it ironic that 02-06 4 cyl. Camry is having similar issues of pulled headbolts.