: Project CATERROR



R-Caddy
10-17-09, 02:14 AM
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee162/arasko1/Caterror/383001.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee162/arasko1/Caterror/383008.jpg

CateraMV6
10-17-09, 06:42 AM
Yaikes!.... forged pistons and crank... low compression I assume and some sort of mechanical device to shove air down the throat of the meighty L81??? My goodness man.... thats the last thing in the world I expected from you...


SUBSCRIBED!

Matera97
10-17-09, 09:47 AM
What increases in power are possible with this upgrade?

CateraMV6
10-17-09, 11:54 AM
Oh boy I think I counted wrong... there are 8 spots for connecting rods on that crankshaft... I think his V6 has been infected with radiation and it grew an extra pair of cylinders...

Yaikes...!

R-Caddy
10-17-09, 01:09 PM
Here's another one to see what is happening
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee162/arasko1/Caterror/383009.jpg

It's a simple setup: cast steel crank, forged rods, hypereutectic pistons. 10.5-11.0:1 compression. 350 block, 383 stroker kit. Everything blueprinted, balanced; block bored, honed, decked etc...

R-Caddy
10-18-09, 04:03 PM
Nobody interested in the 450+hp Catera build? :confused::hmm:

R-Caddy
10-18-09, 04:06 PM
What increases in power are possible with this upgrade?
close to 500 when I'm done :devil:

CateraMV6
10-18-09, 07:18 PM
dont be surprised most people peek but dont bother to post something, I ahve posted so many threads and they end up with 300 vies with 0 comments...

Try the OOF, or the cateraowners.forumotion dot com

What other plans do you have?

How are you going to get electronics to work have you made plans?

R-Caddy
10-18-09, 08:40 PM
My next step is cam and heads. Accessories and stuff like that I am not very worried about at this moment. The transmission choice is 700r4. Headers will be made locally, so is the driveshaft and the axles. I am thinking using GTO differential. As far as electronics go, I am going carbureted. We have people locally that specialize in wiring and such, so hopefully I will even have A/C. If it comes out to be purely a driver's car- so be it. I have another Catera for a daily driver. I know a lot of the parts are going to be custom, but I believe I have the right man for the job, and he knows the right people.
I will keep everybody updated. I know how many of us wanted a V8 in a Catera, so now that it is happening people seem to have lost interest. Maybe because the other V8 projects are getting old and left unfinished.

fuzzkill
10-18-09, 11:53 PM
I will enjoy following this thread :D

Do you have any timeline you are planning on? Or a rough estimate?

CateraMV6
10-19-09, 02:05 PM
Damn you are all the way down in GA, if you were any closer to MI I would have come over and given you a hand with whatever it is that you need help with....

If you are gonna go carbureted I think you will be in good shape, the ECU will be almost useless but it will still need to be in the car because it controls some of the body stuff... hope your guy knows his stuff.

Matera97
10-19-09, 05:56 PM
So, It has to be a Gen II or III block, the only ones for first Gen 350's that I can tell produce anything close to those numbers are the ZQ3 and the L46. Is it the LT1 block?

Matera97
10-19-09, 06:02 PM
4L60, used in Cameros and Corvettes. Should be able to handle the torque...other than the gto shocks, any other suspension mods or drive train mods planned?

Matera97
10-19-09, 10:06 PM
It sounds like you're swapping a setup from a Camero/Firebird. Both used the LT1, and the 4L60(700R4). Why not go the extra mile and throw in a T-56. lol...This should be interesting....

AHazzardToAll
10-20-09, 02:15 PM
I'm defiantly watching this one. I bought one of the swap kits for a cat but wouldn't life happen and soon after my motor locked up in my 67 olds and the rebuild on it tanked my bank account. But i'm on the final stages of my olds rebuild and should be back round to searching for a shell car soon. The gou i bought the kit from said he'd e-mail me a bunch of info he'd found on the swap but wouldn't ya know as soon as i got home after picking it up i couldn't ever get a hold of him again. go figure. :ill:

Warez
10-21-09, 02:33 AM
So, It has to be a Gen II or III block, the only ones for first Gen 350's that I can tell produce anything close to those numbers are the ZQ3 and the L46. Is it the LT1 block?

It's a Gen-1.

The Gen-1 small block Chevy is the engine that invented the aftermarket. Permormance parts are cheap and the choices are endless. Building a 450hp + 383 should not be too difficult nor expensive.

Warez
10-21-09, 02:48 AM
My next step is cam and heads. Accessories and stuff like that I am not very worried about at this moment. The transmission choice is 700r4. Headers will be made locally, so is the driveshaft and the axles. I am thinking using GTO differential.

Lingenfelter had a whole bunch of V8-Omega diffs and driveshafts. Unfortunately they sold off their whole inventory of remaining parts a while back. I would suggest emailing them and asking for the contact info of the buyer. I'm sure the buyer would sell you a diff+driveshaft.

The V8-Omega diff is a direct bolt-in. Though the rear sub-frame of the Catera and GTO is similar, our cars use a MUCH superior diff mounting design.

You may save some time and money rather than adapting the GTO diff.

If you can't get a Omega-V8 diff, why don't you adapt a Ford Cobra/Explorer 8.8 diff instead of the GTO diff. They're all aluminum, common, relatively cheap on eBay and have planty of aftermarket parts available. They're also much stronger than the GTO diff.

AHazzardToAll
10-21-09, 11:12 AM
I thought the gto was a direct placement form the holden, same setup at our cats so it would be a direct fit?

R-Caddy
10-21-09, 10:39 PM
Ok. Here's some answers. Yes, it is Gen I block. It was either a used LS1 or a brand spanking new built 383 with more power and cheaper maintenance.
I am aware of the Lingenfelter kit. And right when I wanted to get one- BOOM!- last one sold. Even here on the board.
I was thinking using a late model Mustang Mach 1 rear end (posi traction, 3.4? gears), but changing only the diff is less problematic. I am still not decided. I will need more than the 3.08 gears from V8 Omega to keep the 4000lb pig moving. That also dictated my head choice. The driveshaft is only about $300 to build here locally, so... Transmission, the 700r4 will give it streetability and better :) gas mileage. 4L60E is electronic, and I'm trying to get away from all that crap. Plus, again, more money for used stock stuff... I will have my transmission available though ;)
Suspension-wise, I have GTO shocks, shock bar, lowering springs. I may have to refresh the shocks and maybe get a set of drag bags. I believe the front to be OK witn new struts, lowering springs, links, ball joints. I also have a strutbar. I may need new stabiliser bar bushings and stuff like that, but that's minor stuff.
Once I get that animal under the hood, imagine the possibilities. Oh, and the guy at the machine shop told me he was able to balance the lightweight rotating assembly for super quick revs and responsiveness :)
Once again, I will keep everybody updated. Meanwhile, check out some clearance stuff on our favorite site ;)
http://www.rockauto.com/RSS/vehiclefeeds.php?carcode=1025211&m=wc&l=en&html=true

Jea3cd
10-24-09, 11:35 PM
Sweet, keep the pics coming as you do it.

You upgrading the brakes also?

R-Caddy
10-25-09, 03:52 PM
I already have GTO 2 piston calipers with Corvette pads by Hawk. They tend to slow the car down pretty well from a 100mph :)

Black02SLPSS
10-26-09, 01:16 PM
Ok. Here's some answers. Yes, it is Gen I block. It was either a used LS1 or a brand spanking new built 383 with more power and cheaper maintenance.
I am aware of the Lingenfelter kit. And right when I wanted to get one- BOOM!- last one sold. Even here on the board.
I was thinking using a late model Mustang Mach 1 rear end (posi traction, 3.4? gears), but changing only the diff is less problematic. I am still not decided. I will need more than the 3.08 gears from V8 Omega to keep the 4000lb pig moving.

On the rear end dilemma, are you wanting to keep your irs or go with a solid axle? Only reason i ask this is because the mach's are solid axles with 3.55 rear end gears. The 03-04 cobras on the other hand had an irs for the rear suspsension and i believe their gears were a 3.55 as well. Although i have no idea how much custom fab work would be required to get either to work. I would assume alot. But if your up for the challenge i applaud you.

Black02SLPSS
10-26-09, 01:26 PM
Ok. Here's some answers. Yes, it is Gen I block. It was either a used LS1 or a brand spanking new built 383 with more power and cheaper maintenance.
I am aware of the Lingenfelter kit. And right when I wanted to get one- BOOM!- last one sold. Even here on the board.
I was thinking using a late model Mustang Mach 1 rear end (posi traction, 3.4? gears), but changing only the diff is less problematic. I am still not decided. I will need more than the 3.08 gears from V8 Omega to keep the 4000lb pig moving.

On the rear end dilemma, are you wanting to keep your irs or go with a solid axle? Only reason i ask this is because the mach's are solid axles with 3.55 rear end gears. The 03-04 cobras on the other hand had an irs for the rear suspsension and i believe their gears were a 3.55 as well. Although i have no idea how much custom fab work would be required to get either to work. I would assume alot. But if your up for the challenge i applaud you.

R-Caddy
10-26-09, 09:29 PM
I have talked to some GTO owners and they say that the Mach 1 rear end is a common swap on the GTOs and doesn't require extensive modifications. From what I understand, it is also posi-traction. I still believe that just a diff swap would be easier and it can be upgraded to posi-traction from limited slip later. But... that issue is still rather distant. I am talking to people about it though.
Coming this week:
bottom end being put together and probably ordering cam,lifters, timing set

The Tony Show
10-26-09, 10:59 PM
Badass. :thumbsup:

MyOpel
10-29-09, 12:56 AM
Nice!
spend a little extra and get a roller cam, more power and more reliable. the oil these days are not flat tappet friendly. do lots of research on the heads and cam. For 450+hp you'll need at least aluminum fastburn heads or better aftermarket.
th700r4....... get the one with the better oil pump (cant remember but think its 86 and newer) do the standard upgrades, vette servo shift kit... but dont spend too much money. if you drive easy it'll last a long time, if you drive it hard... well i killed 2 in my trans am, a friend of mine went thought about 1 a year in his sleeper 383 vette for a total of 9 (he ran low 12's and basically every weekend)

R-Caddy
10-29-09, 01:16 PM
My block is 1992, so it is a hydraulic roller. That is the way I am going. Heads of choice- AFR :D I talked to them a few times already. Also talked to Comp and have chosen a cam as well. Manifold and the carb I have a good idea bout. The whole setup is going to be done early 90's style with serpentine belt kit etc...
Anyway, gotta run get some prices and run the cam specs by the mechanic ;) Might snap some bare finished block pics

R-Caddy
12-07-09, 11:17 PM
Cam, lifters, timing, intake already in. AFR heads shipping out late next week :D
Still need rockers and when I get those we will measure for pushrod length.
The bottom is still not together, but the block in on the engine stand, waiting on heads.
Oh yeah, I amthrowing myself around for the transmission choice. I would like the 700, but I hear 350s are much stronger and priced better. Not like I will drive it on very long trips.

CateraMV6
12-08-09, 02:07 AM
Nice to hear, got any new pics?

Cant wait to see that motor stuffed between the front rails...

Warez
12-08-09, 03:29 PM
Have you considered a T56?

LT1 T56's can be bought for cheap.

Which AFR heads did you get?

Jea3cd
12-08-09, 09:11 PM
1985 or later 700R4 all the way. I think it was 85'ish is when the 700R4 went to a 30 splin input shaft, which was the failure point on earlier models.

I had the 700R4 from TCI in my Iroc that I drove all the time, and Drag Raced on the weekends, with a 500 hp small block under the hood.

You'll want that OD if your going to drive it on the highway, trust me.

R-Caddy
12-08-09, 10:42 PM
No new pics yet. I am waiting for the heads, then I will snap a few nice photos with intake, cam...
As far as the transmissions go, it so much easier to go from one automatic to the other. Still debating between the TH350 and the 700r4. Getting a used T56 and having it built is a little too much for me right now.
Let's leave some heads and cam specs out for now :] The heads can flow to handle upwards of 600hp running all-motor, the cam handles past 6000rpm and has duration longer than Catera's intake ducts... lol :D

Black02SLPSS
12-09-09, 03:46 AM
Mr. R-Caddy. I have a question for ya, how stockish was your catera's intake system. As in all the retarded tubing and ducting that it had? If its still mostly stock could you take some pics of your engine bay for me? Im still trying to piece together the front end of my catera and im having trouble remembering where everything goes. Also if you end up not using the stock air cleaner box could i buy that from you and maybe some other odds and ends that you wont be using when you swap to a V8?

R-Caddy
12-09-09, 01:25 PM
Mr. Black02SLPSS. My intake system is stock, except for the air cleaner. I have a bent 3" aluminum tubing and a huge Xstream flow K&N filter attached to it. Air cleaner box is gone. There is a Catera in the yard here, so if you need it, let me know ASAP. Also, MAF has been descreened :D . And... intake manifold slightly massaged... But throttle body and plenum are in factory condition (ran out of time to finish the larger throttle body...), as well as the plastic ducting and vaccum connections.
Here's a preliminary picture. I will try to take one for you directly from the top and up close, if that is what you need. Anything else that is in good working condition will be available to my fellow Catera owners.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee162/arasko1/Cateras008.jpg

CateraMV6
12-09-09, 02:38 PM
How are the noise levels with that intake setup? I imagine its not much of a cold air intake its more of a hot air short ram... probably great for fuel economy.

Black02SLPSS
12-09-09, 04:08 PM
Sweet! Ya if you could get those pics from the top and bottom and such that would be great. Thanks man. Ya im gonna look around in the garage or where ever for that air cleaner box, but if i am not able to find it and you happen to have one in the other catera ill be hittin you up for it. Thanks again man

R-Caddy
12-09-09, 06:50 PM
After my extensive exhaust modifications, the intake can barely be heard; only a little bit in mid-high rpm's. That thing is crazy top-end: 6700-6800 rpm everytime I feel like it. As we know, a lot of stuff on Cateras are slow to react, and when my engine revs as fast as it does, limiter is one of them ;) Fuel economy right now- 15-16mpg due to yet undetermined causes of running lean in Bank 1 (another excuse to do the V8 swap :D ). I am still trying to find some sensor or some kind of a leak somewhere before removing the engine- just to know...
Mr. SS, neither of my Cateras have the box, but I'll try to get one for you.

Black02SLPSS
12-11-09, 01:22 AM
After my extensive exhaust modifications, the intake can barely be heard; only a little bit in mid-high rpm's. That thing is crazy top-end: 6700-6800 rpm everytime I feel like it. As we know, a lot of stuff on Cateras are slow to react, and when my engine revs as fast as it does, limiter is one of them ;) Fuel economy right now- 15-16mpg due to yet undetermined causes of running lean in Bank 1 (another excuse to do the V8 swap :D ). I am still trying to find some sensor or some kind of a leak somewhere before removing the engine- just to know...
Mr. SS, neither of my Cateras have the box, but I'll try to get one for you.

Oh well, I dont want to make you go out of your way to find one. Ill take a look around town and try and source one before you go and find one. Thanks tho.

CateraMV6
12-11-09, 05:52 AM
BTW what size piping, and filter is that, I was considering something like this for winter use, to try and squeeze some more MPG out of mine... and we will see if the sound is nice I may keep it.

I was also looking for space to mount a separate water tank for the headlight washer system...

R-Caddy
12-11-09, 05:29 PM
OK, here's some new stuff and progress
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee162/arasko1/Caterror/383018.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee162/arasko1/Caterror/383022.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee162/arasko1/Caterror/383023.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee162/arasko1/Caterror/383024.jpg

CateraMV6, intake tubing is 3", I can'tremember the filter part#. Look up on K&N's website, it's one of those Extreme Flow (with filter top) or something like that. I got one of the biggest ones :)

P.S. Mr. SS, hope these help
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee162/arasko1/DSCF0174.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee162/arasko1/DSCF0175.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee162/arasko1/DSCF0176.jpg

Black02SLPSS
12-12-09, 01:51 AM
Thanks man, that will help out alot.

R-Caddy
06-03-10, 08:20 PM
OK guys. I know I've been slacking on updates, but I've been very busy. Got a second part-time job, acquired a gf and so on. At the shop almost every weekend getting stuff done on the motor. But.... got the engine DYNO numbers for ya!!! :D
480hp @ 5700 and 460lb/ft @ ...can't remember, but somewhere in the 4000-4500 range. Yes, peaks late, but by 6000 only drops 3hp. And vacuum secondaries... But we'll change that, so that we have power a little earlier.
That is changing right now due to some internal modifications and some additional parts. So soon here we will have a 500hp Catera ;) Sucker revs like I planned and is still responsive as hell.
Ordered the transmission here locally. Should be ready this Friday. Went with the TH350 and around 3200-3500 stall converter. Still need the rear end. Better start looking for those GTO differentials, because the car is about to go into the shop.
Will take some pics of the motor ( oh, god, is it beautiful :rolleyes: so I think and that's what everybody else thinks also )
Wish me luck and I'll see you here soon I hope.
Aras

CateraMV6
06-03-10, 09:22 PM
Sooo jealous man!

I was debating on a 3.2L swap with a manual, thought that was gonna be enough for me. Either way please post some pics here and on the Cateraowners.forumotion.com

Would love to see where this ends up, I think it will be as fast as the CateraV

retho78
06-04-10, 10:53 PM
interesting project.....keep us updated!

R-Caddy
06-07-10, 11:08 PM
Sooo jealous man!

I was debating on a 3.2L swap with a manual, thought that was gonna be enough for me. Either way please post some pics here and on the Cateraowners.forumotion.com

Would love to see where this ends up, I think it will be as fast as the CateraV
With the right setup, it should do around 12s flat. Maaaybe break into the 11's. Only time will tell.
Btw, tranny's done, but torque converter still not installed and waiting on the transmission oil pan. You know, aluminum, finned, extra 2qt capacity... Should be in Tuesday or Wednesday. Tranny good for 700-800hp :D
Man, I have a feeling I'll have to re-stiffen my suspension again...:o
Now the hunt for the rearend begins.
Wish me luck

RippyPartsDept
11-27-10, 04:48 PM
so how's this project coming?
i'm interested in the end result

R-Caddy
01-09-11, 01:11 AM
Hey guys,
I know I've been slacking on updates, but I have been through a lot since the summer in my personal life. Moved 3 times in 5 months. Finally got my own place and now just sorting some things out in my life.
The car is in the shop with the engine and transmission out. Just found out that I have to take the whole fron interior panel out. The engine cannot sit the way we planned; the transmission is hitting the tunnel. The oil pan was resting on the steering rod. Instead of redoing that, we decided to go with the cheaper (and better) alternative. Have to make a new transmission tunnel. I guess that deeper oil pan is also contributing to it. In the end, the engine will be able to sit further back and lower. May or may not be able to use my console and the shifter is pretty much going to be gone. Will have to get an aftermarket one and just make a vinyl boot instead of those ricey rubber ones... But that's not a problem.
Still don't have the rear end. I will get one once the engine and transmission sit in place.
That's it for now. I will try to keep a better update on the project. Still have some pics in my camera I believe. Will try to upload those sometime.
Thanks,
Aras

Caddy_4_Life
01-09-11, 03:43 PM
Wow.. Impressive! If my Catera can survive until I am done college, I'd love to do a V8 upgrade. The body and interior of my car are mint, its just the engine that gives me a hard time. Hope you are still around to assist with that.

A lot of you guys seem to know your engines inside and out. I wish I had more time and resources to learn as much as you guys.

R-Caddy
02-02-11, 10:36 PM
OK gang. Found some old pics in my camera. Valve covers, heads etc.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee162/arasko1/Caterror/383001-1.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee162/arasko1/Caterror/383006.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee162/arasko1/Caterror/383009-1.jpg
So far I got the center console out, the dash is out. Still have to take some heater/A/C stuff out, the seats and carpet need to move. Whenever I get time to do it... School is getting busy, both jobs are getting some attention. Weather is nice, I am slowly starting my fishing season as well, so... At least I got my taxes done to help me move forward.
See you guys later ;]
Aras

R-Caddy
10-02-11, 06:50 PM
Hey guys. I know it's been a good while. Sorry to anounce, but Project Caterror has been cancelled. I have been through a lot this pas year and have calculated my situation. Not to say that I am giving up on my new drivetrain- just the V8 Catera. I will update you guys what my new direction is in due time.
Thanks for everyone's support and interest. Feel free to contact me regarding certain questions. I still own another '97 and will remain a part of this community.
On an end note, I do have a good bit of parts available for Cateras. Please read my new thread on what's availabe new, used, aftermarket and custom made.
Thanks,
Aras

MyOpel
10-02-11, 10:54 PM
sorry to hear that.
I've been peroccupied with other obligations/Life my self... if it helps any the old chevy II had front sump oil pans, this could possibly move the engine forward and eliminate the need to make a new firewall and trans tunnel.
http://www.bracketracer.com/engine/oilpan/oilpan.htm (http://www.bracketracer.com/engine/oilpan/oilpan.htm)

R-Caddy
10-02-11, 11:04 PM
And that might have been the solution. However, then the engine accessories might have sat too close to the radiator, if not right in it. And I don't think my oil pump with extended pickup would have fit. It's still a stroker, you know. There might have been clearance issues with that oil pan, although a stock 350 pan does the job... barely... with a thick gasket ;)