So last Friday I was driving to get some dinner and my SDV decided to stall right as I was making a left across a large street. I managed to start it up and put out of harms way into a parking lot where I was unable to turn the motor over anymore. It has 140k on it (from what I know) and was running fine until this day. I didn't hear anything (actually I didn't even notice it stalled out until I saw the oil light on since the ignition was on and not running).

1hr later and the tow truck was there and dropped it off at my shop. After checking all the normal stuff (spark, fuel etc..) i pulled the #1 spark plug and when it came out, the head was smashed flat. (:() I pulled the left side valve cover and found that the 2nd valve was stuck down and i was able to wiggle the rocker. (:()

When I removed the piece that holds the rockers down the 1st valve was sticking up much higher than all the others. so i figured the next step was to pull the head to see whats going on.

So after unbolting everything from the top and pulling the intake manifold, I got the awesome view of push-rods that are supposed to be straight and now the #2 pushrod looks like the letter "S". Good news huh! Well then, exhaust manifold comes off, and head is unbolted, once I wrestle the heavy "sob" out of there I see that the head of the #2 valve is sitting on the piston head. (GREAT) after feeling around the cylinder walls to feel for gouges, and feeling nothing i go to grab the valve head, well it seems as if it is pressed into the piston head. with a little force and wiggle, it popped out and now i have a huge hole in the #1 piston. :tisk: not a good thing.

So I figured, the local Vintage Cadillac parts store, has a "good running" 500 motor that I can purchase and put in there. He said i would need to change the oil pan and oil pump, and it would bolt right over.

My questions are:
Would that be all I need to do? (as far as getting new parts) I know id replace the normal stuff while the motor is out but i dont know if i would need anything to do the swap.
Also are the exhaust manifolds the same or will i have to change them too?

Will i still be able to bolt the factory a/c compressor back in to the same location?

This is going to be my first motor swap and I have knowledgeable mechanics to help, just not Cadillac guys. So any help would be appreciated.

I also want to keep the 472 that comes out, and slowly build it in my garage and then replace it when that one is finished. Maybe build it up with a nice cam and nice heads. That is for the future though :yup:

Here is the only picture I have of the damage so far and its from my iPhone so its not the best quality.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/IMG_0148.jpg

472 & 500 are easy swap; same block, just different stroke. Manifolds, oil pan, etc might need to swap. Get a new timing chain on the 500 while its out. Your biggest problem might end up being broken exhaust manifold bolts in the heads of the motor; check it out. Bruce Roe CLC # 14630

Thank you, yeah, I have both Exhaust manifolds off and all the bolts out of the 472, I don't know about the 500 yet. the timing chain will be replaced before the 500 goes in for sure. will the jetting on the carb have to be changed? I just had it rebuilt about 3 months ago. I would like to put headers on the motor, and eventually when the 472 goes back in would like to swap them back if that would be possible...

I'm still looking for a 500 power steering pump mount bracket. Do you suppose that place where your engine came from has one?? A phone number would be nice:)

If that front plate on your 500 is rust pitted bad (mine is) , the Cad Co has a stainless replacement plate. Not real cheap, 125 bucks, but it's a lifetime piece. Hard to get gaskets to seal if the plate is severely pitted.

There are 2 great places here in AZ that may have that part

http://www.dvap.com/
800-905-8024

&

http://www.azvintageparts.com/
1-800-433-9977

Both of those are within 10mi from my house.
If they have the part but wont ship it for some weird reason let me know and I can ship it to you

Also, I haven't seen the front timing cover on the 500 yet, but I know about cad500 co. there in NM about a 7hr drive from me, and I will be ordering a bunch of parts for the rebuild of the 472. Thanks for the heads up though

What happened was your plastic coated cam timing gear broke and it jumped timing... now when this happened it bent all your your pushrods and valves... more than likey thats all the damage...If it were mine I would pull the heads, get a new set of SS valves .. have a valve job done and put on a new roller chain and gear timing set-up...

Well the 500 will be ready on Tuesday, the 472 is out and there is a lot of clean up from 40+ years of build-up. I spent the whole day pressure washing the motor compartment and starting to hide all the wiring. Here are some pictures.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5828.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5829.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5830.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5837.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5839.jpg

After the pressure wash and a little grinding

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5846.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5844.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5849.jpg

Thanks for the two parts places info:) I'll ask them about the parts I need.
BILL

What happened was your plastic coated cam timing gear broke and it jumped timing... now when this happened it bent all your your pushrods and valves... more than likey thats all the damage...If it were mine I would pull the heads, get a new set of SS valves .. have a valve job done and put on a new roller chain and gear timing set-up...

Why did they use plastic timing gears? Makes no sense to me.

The large cam "gears" (sprockets) are steel, but have plastic teeth molded on them, which have been used since the 60s on GM cars. Changed the first one on a '62 Pontiac. Never did hear a good reason for their use.

They used plastic because they were quiet and lasted longer than there expected life...but when they get 20 years old they can break anytime..after 40 years your on borrowed time..

Yup!!:d

I got the "new" motor to my shop late last night and started to pull the old parts off of it to start cleaning it up today. It is a 500 from a 74 Eldorado. I have been doing a little searching on the internets and it looks like this motor has way less HP and torque than the orig. 472. Why is that? Or am I just not reading something right? Also will I have to use the single pulley system on that motor or can I use my dual pulley system that I had on the 472? And the HEI, will that interfere with the belts if the dual belt system is on?

Here are a few pictures of it dirty

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/IMG_0150.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/IMG_0153.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/IMG_0152.jpg

I believe the belt problem is common when using the later HEI. Why not use the pulleys that it came with? Must be OK, it worked so far:D

well I was thinking about using the pulleys that it came with, but my New A/C and power steering pump are both dual belt pulleys. can I just swap the pulleys on both of those items?

Another question: can I use the fuel pump from the 68 472 or would i use a fuel pump from the 74 500? do they pump differently? The one on the 500 has a much larger canister and would like to use the one from the 472 with a smaller canister if possible?

oh and here's a horrible picture from the iPhone of the old timing gear that caused all this mess...
The new motor has the same plastic coated gear, so I am replacing that with an all metal one.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_0156.jpg

Looks like you are doing things right, Why do you want the smaller canister fuel pump installed...I would think that you would want the larger one in place if you want to add headers and cam set....It is most likely a larger volume unit.
Perhaps they found a need to go larger in the years after your 472 was made.?
I believe that your engine seemingly has less horse power rating for two reasons....74 was entrenched in the smog era.
and also I believe that they changed the rating system for performance around 74 which makes things appear a drastic difference when comparing with earlier years.
John

Looks like I will be going with the larger pump off of the 74, the reason being is that on the 68 the fuel filter is hard to find and the return to the tank goes through that item. On the 74 style it circulates through the pump and then I can just add an inline filter that I can get anywhere.

I figured if they pumped the same volume then why not go with the smaller one.

also this is being used on the 500 going in the car for now. I will be building the original 472 back up over time with a larger cam, nice valves, etc....

Do yourself a favor and don't use a stock replacement chain and gears.. they ALL are not as good as the plastic ones.. Get a colyes, sprokets and chain.. they are about $100 but that will be it ...no more problems... I used one of those cheap sets and after 10K miles the chain was stretched BAD...

Do yourself a favor and don't use a stock replacement chain and gears.. they ALL are not as good as the plastic ones.. Get a colyes, sprokets and chain.. they are about $100 but that will be it ...no more problems... I used one of those cheap sets and after 10K miles the chain was stretched BAD...

I bought a "Cloyes" branded one? is that what you meant?

I'm still looking for a 500 power steering pump mount bracket. Do you suppose that place where your engine came from has one?? A phone number would be nice:)


Did you ever find the bracket you needed?

Another question: can I use the fuel pump from the 68 472 or would i use a fuel pump from the 74 500? do they pump differently? The one on the 500 has a much larger canister and would like to use the one from the 472 with a smaller canister if possible?

oh and here's a horrible picture from the iPhone of the old timing gear that caused all this mess...
The new motor has the same plastic coated gear, so I am replacing that with an all metal one.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_0156.jpg

It's funny the timing chain doesn't even look stretched but the cam gear teeth are completely shot. I had a Chevy once that the chain got so loose it wore a hole through the timing cover. Nice job on the engine swap; it should be worth all the work. I'll bet you won't notice much difference in the power because they were just rated differently. they are all torque monsters.:cheers::

Colyes makes a cheap one for about $30... Don't use it .. before I used that new cheap chain I would use the old stock chain with a new gear... The best one to use is Colyes 9-3139.... they have one with almost as good chain for about $80... that ones fine for what you want..

I was looking for a new "Crankcase Ventilating Breather" and all I can find is just a normal "K&N" style filter. Mine connects to both the valve cover and the air cleaner housing. Can I just use a normal one or does someone know where I can find a factory style one?

That's a great picture, and it not only shows the bad sprocket, but how the fuel pump and distributor are powered.

Oh yeah, I did get a power steering pump bracket from the AZ salvage place (Desert Salvage) Thanks for that link 01devilledts:cool:

No problem, I now have an extra one that i would have sent you if you couldnt find one :)

Isn't this place great!!!:worship:

A little update:

I have the motor ready to go back in.
All the front suspension has been redone, new: upper and lower ball joints, upper and lower control arm bushings, inner and outer tie rod ends.
All wiring has been extended and hidden behind fenders, with all old holes in the fender-wells welded up and smoothed out.
Heater core has been replaced
Front cross member has been modded to make ease of removal and installation of motor.
Everything in engine bay primed, and everything lower than the fender-wells has been painted. (will paint the rest after the motor is in-place)

I will put up some pictures tomorrow since I forgot my camera today. This swap has been a great learning experience and am glad I started this project

Here are a few progress pictures. as of tonight, the motor is back in, and connected to the tranny, and bolted down.
hopefully it will be running by the weekend.

Here is the mod I did to the radiator support to make it easy to re-install the motor
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5857.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5859.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5877.jpg

Here are a few of the dusty motor before installation
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5860.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5861.jpg

New Ball Joints/bushings
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5867.jpg

All holes filled & no more wire messes
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5868.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5869.jpg

Lower portions painted Satin Black
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5871.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5872.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5873.jpg

A few with the 500 re-installed
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5878.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5883.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/68%20Cadi/IMG_5882.jpg

Looking Good....Make sure you give that HEI distrubtor a new wire.. and don't use the old resistor wire ...

Looking Good....Make sure you give that HEI distrubtor a new wire.. and don't use the old resistor wire ...


There is a large red (maybe 10ga) wire coming out of the distributor. That is what you are talking about right? I just run that to an +12v ignition source? And I can cut and cap off the 2 wires that went to the old coil from the points distributor?

That sounds right with the wires.....What a lot of guys do to get rid of there air pump and give the clearance for the fan belt at the distrubtor cap is use a 425 pulley set -up... most all 425's, except Cal cars, have no air pump...on those cars the a/c compressor-PS pump belt are just one larger belt... that gives the needed clearance for the HEI....but if you did that you would have to change the ps pump or pulley ...same with the AC comp.

Everything is finished. But now I don't know the order of the distributor cap. I started with where the rotor pointed and went around clockwise from that point in the listed firing order. (1-5-6-3-4-2-7-8).
No luck. also i have a fuse block that distributes power to the starter,alternator, and the fuse block, but when the engine is cranked it blows a 200A fuse. No idea where that problem is coming from. does anyone have and ideas?

also does anyone know the order and what pin is #1 on the HEI distributor?

OK, so I had a little bit of a "rain man" moment and was 180* out on my distributor cap order. The motor fired right up and runs so smooth. I cant believe how much power I was missing before.

Here are some pictures of a semi finished engine bay. I still need to paint the fenders and random other parts. So that is my next project along with a firewall cover....

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/IMG_0170.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/IMG_0172.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/IMG_0173.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/IMG_0174.jpg

That looks like you did good!!:cool2: A nice conversion.

Thank you, I learned a lot while doing this. And even though I spent way more than I was expecting im glad that I redid all the suspension bushings and joints while I was in there. It makes a huge difference.

Does anyone know if I can bypass the heater valve and just run a straight piece of heater hose from the heater core to the radiator?

I would like to get rid of that valve.

I can't, for the life of me find where the other two vacuum lines are that go to the side of the valve... and the only place that is missing lines is a little distribution tree to the left of the mode door canister.

nice swap! hopefully mine will turn out as well as urs. good job.

nice swap! hopefully mine will turn out as well as urs. good job.

Thank you, all I can say is take your time and ask a bunch of questions on here, that's what helped me. Everyone on here is knowledgeable and it helps.

Thank you, all I can say is take your time and ask a bunch of questions on here, that's what helped me. Everyone on here is knowledgeable and it helps.

if they'll respond to my topic... :(

Bump....

Anyone know if this is possible?


Does anyone know if I can bypass the heater valve and just run a straight piece of heater hose from the heater core to the radiator?

I would like to get rid of that valve.

I can't, for the life of me find where the other two vacuum lines are that go to the side of the valve... and the only place that is missing lines is a little distribution tree to the left of the mode door canister.

Of course you can eliminate that valve, but the heater core will be hot all the time. I believe you could just keep looking for that vacuum line that operates it, even if you remove the valve. That hose likely originates at the heater controls, behind the dash. Most Caddys I've owned had a removable top on the dash, which gives access to all that "stuff":D

I believe there is only one vacume hose going to that valve... Not sure on that year , but vacume will open the valve or close the valve... those other spots may just be vents.....Don't that the valve off unless you live in the artic circle....

I guess here's my answer

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b153/Camneedsfoodyo/Picture1-4.png

I dont have the "Time Delay Relay" I wonder where I can find that?

I guess the HVAC system is my next project.

I have all new parts installed and A/C works but I have not tried to get the heat to work. I mean it gets cold here for maybe 2 months out of the year so i never worried about it. (its actually 75 while im typing this at 7pm)