: Help Again Bbobynski !! - Tranny Codes



DEEBEE
07-30-04, 05:49 PM
I Have Returned For More Tranny Code Help. Bbob Was The Only Reply To My Last Thread - Thanks

Here Goes...

My 95 Seville Sls Is Giving Me The Follwing Codes From The Obd.

P029 - P094

I Think These Both Pertain To The Shift Solenoids.

Before I Knew How To Use The Obd (thanks To This Site!!!) My Local Dealership Says That I Got A Code 39 ( I Think That Is Torque Converter Problem) They Are Quoting $ 1500.00 To Fix. I Think That That Sounds High If It Is The Shift Solenoids That Is The Problem.

Does The Dealership Have Access To Codes That Do Not Show Up On The Obd, Or Are They Trying To Milk Me. I Find It Hard To Trust Dealerships - (bad Past Experience With A Jeep)

Any Imput Is Appreciated !!!!

Thanks

scorch
08-01-04, 08:05 PM
I recently replaced my shift solenoids myself ('93 eldo), not something I'd recommend if you can spare the $300-$400 I heard other people quoted. As for the $1500, there are no secret codes but there are secretive mechanics. Ditch 'em and find a mechanic you can trust and who's willing to work with you. Fix the A&B solenoids, clear the codes, then see if the code 39 comes back.

BeelzeBob
08-03-04, 04:45 PM
No, there are no "secretive" codes. You can see everything related to the trouble codes stored on the onboard diagnostic system that the dealership can. If you aren't seeing a code 39 now then there isn't one......

But....this doesn't mean that there wasn't a code 39 there at some point....

It is certainly possible that the torque converter clutch wasn't working at some point and still isn't...but...if the shift solenoids have failed for some reason then the code 39 would be masked or the conditions to detect and set it are not achievable by the transmission....so...it could possibly go undetected.

In any case, I would ask around to find a shop that can just R&R the lower pan/valve body/shift solenoids and have them replaced. Obviously they will need attention regardless and since they are serviceable with the trans in the car it makes sense to address them first. The trans will not function with the shift solenoids failed so they need replacing regardless. The trans will continue to operate indefinitely with the torque converter clutch failed so that doesn't have to be fixed.....ever.

Besides, there are several other reasons for the code 39 to set....the torque converter clutch may be inoperative for reasons outside the trans. It needs to be trouble shot and diagnosed correctly. It could be as simple as the brake electrical switch or a fuse. Only a competent shop with the correct manuals and diagnosis can tell.

DEEBEE
08-04-04, 11:28 AM
Thanks - Your Insight And Knowledge Are A Godsend To A Dummy Like Me !!! All Hail To This Web Site !!!!!


Long Live Cadillacs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BeelzeBob
08-04-04, 10:47 PM
Thanks - Your Insight And Knowledge Are A Godsend To A Dummy Like Me !!! All Hail To This Web Site !!!!!


Long Live Cadillacs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You're welcome. Post the results so we know how it worked out.....

DEEBEE
09-13-04, 12:04 PM
I Am Happy To Report That I Got An Independant Shop To Change The Shift Solenoids For $250.00. That Is A Lot Better Than The Dealership Quote For The Torque Converter.

By The Way I Called The Dealership And Got The Same Guy That Quoted The Tcc Problem And Asked For A Quote For Changing The Shift Solenoids. He Immediatly Said That It Was Not The Solenoids But The Tcc That Was The Problem. I Told Him That I Had Done My Research And The Codes That I Got From The Obd Were For The Shift Solenoids. He Still Stuck To His Guns. He Did Say, Just Before I Was Going To Hang Up, That He Would Talk To The Tech. And Call Me Back. A Little Later He Called And Left A Message That I Was Right About The Codes And They Would Change Them For $450.00.

I Will Not Be Calling Them Back Again For Anything. I Bet If The Sales Mgr. Knew That The Service Department Was Trying Stuff Like This They Would Be Unhappy. I Would Not Consider Them For My Next Car Purchase After All Of This.

I Would Like To Thank You For The Help And Information. This Site And The Good People That Contribute To It Just Saved Me Quite A Few Dollars !!!!

Thanks Again!!

Roswell256
09-14-04, 02:42 PM
Bbob, After 116k would you recommend while I'm under there changeing the trans fluid to replace the shift solenoids also? or just leave it if I'm not seeing a problem with them.

And if I'm understanding you correct. I NEVER have to worry about a P039 causing more perminant damage or accually adversly affecting my car in any way?. So I can just ingnore it and pretend I don't see the SES light?

Thanks, You Rock
-Robert-

caddydaddy
09-14-04, 03:08 PM
Check this out on the upgraded EEPROM that gets rid of the PO39 code. It worked for my former 94 Concours!:

DTC P039 Set When Driving Up Slight Grade After Cold Start
(Diagnose/Install New PCM)

Models:
1993-95 Cadillac Eldorado, Seville 1994-95 Cadillac Concours,
Deville With 4.6L Engine (Vin Y - RPO LD8)

Condition:
DTC P039, Torque Converter Clutch Engagment, May Set When
Driving Up A Slight Grade After A Cold Start.

Correction:
A PCM Calibration Enhancement Has Been Released For The Above
Listed Vehicles. If A Vehicle Is Encountered With This
Condition, And All Of The Diagnostic Procedures Listed In The
Service Manual Have Been Performed With No Resulting Correction,
Then Update The Vehicle With The Applicable Calibration Listed
Below.

Parts Information:
Part Number Description 16266755 1993 PCM PROM, 16266762 1994
PCM PROM, 16266767 1995 PCM PROM

Parts Are Expected To Be Available From GMSPO On June 1, 1998.

Roswell256
09-14-04, 04:03 PM
From what I understand the new PROM lockes and unlocks the TCC in a different fashion then the factory ones does.

Does anyone see this as possibly causeing problems with it locking and unlocking when it wasn't originally made too? Am I at risk of wearing out other parts that wouldn't normaly or causing undue stress on transmission parts with the tcc locking or unlocking when it normaly wouldn't?

sorry if I'm asking a bunch of questions but I'm paranoid of fixing anything in a way that would change the operation of my engine, fearing that it would cause problems down the road with parts wearing out because there working more or less then normal.

Thanks
-Robert-

BeelzeBob
09-14-04, 10:39 PM
From what I understand the new PROM lockes and unlocks the TCC in a different fashion then the factory ones does.

Does anyone see this as possibly causeing problems with it locking and unlocking when it wasn't originally made too? Am I at risk of wearing out other parts that wouldn't normaly or causing undue stress on transmission parts with the tcc locking or unlocking when it normaly wouldn't?

sorry if I'm asking a bunch of questions but I'm paranoid of fixing anything in a way that would change the operation of my engine, fearing that it would cause problems down the road with parts wearing out because there working more or less then normal.

Thanks
-Robert-


If there is a service bulletin for the code 39 on your car (looks like there is..??) then by all means try that first. The service bulletin only applies to the 4T80E as I recall...that would be the trans with the Northstar which is in a Concour but not the standard deville for 94.....

I don't remember your case exactly....did you try disabling the VCC with the brake switch and find that the torque converter clutch seems to work some or that it doesn't work at all. If the torque converter clutch seems to be working and yet the code sets (and you have a Northstar) then the service prom would likely correct the problem.

In general, there are two service calibration changes concerning the torque converter clutch...one delays the operation until higher speeds if the customer complains of the "chuggle" or roughness at lower vehicle speeds. The other , for the 4T80E, concerns the diagnostic code 39 setting "falsely" due a VCC unit that is creeping excessively but that is not failed completely. That prom simply opens up the window for the slip parameters so that it is harder to detect the code 39....no harm or damage to the trans or anything. Just a more relaxed code detection to account for high mileage and wear and tear.... It doesn't change the way that the clutch applies or anything...just changes the way the PCM detects the slippage or creep of the VCC. I would have no concern at all trying the service prom to see if it corrects your problem. If the VCC is not applying at all, however, when you do the brake test then putting the service prom in will likely have no effect. Still may be worth a try , however, as it is sometimes difficult to detect if the VCC is actually applying or not if you are not used to it.

Roswell256
09-15-04, 08:49 AM
I will have to see what I can find on how to do what your saying. Using the brake switch to disable the vcc and determine if the TCC is still working or not.

Thanks for the help Bbob

-Robert-

BeelzeBob
09-15-04, 02:14 PM
I will have to see what I can find on how to do what your saying. Using the brake switch to disable the vcc and determine if the TCC is still working or not.

Thanks for the help Bbob

-Robert-


If you search using "VCC" and "TCC" or "Code 39" and read my posts the info is in there somewhere....

Basically you want to drive along with the system completley warmed up at 55 or so .... just be sure you are driving such that the VCC should have applied. Lightly crowd the throttle and/or climb a slight grade to load the torque converter (where you would expect the code 39 to set if you had cleared it). Keep the load on the engine with the accelerator constant and reach for the brake pedal with your left foot. LIGHTLY depress the brake pedal just enough to activate the brake switch but not put on the brakes. That should cause the VCC to immediately disengage (due to the brake interlock switch) and you should see the RPM jump up 75-150 RPM and you should be able to feel the "bump" when the VCC disengages. If you sense the VCC disengages when the brake test is employed it means that the clutch is working but the VCC may be getting slightly weak and slipping or creeping at the high limit of what would have been considered acceptable. That is why the code is setting and the service prom would widen the window for the code parameters. If, however, you cannot sense the VCC is disengaging with the brake test, it may mean that the VCC is not working at all. That could be due to a myriad of reasons including a misadjusted brake switch, lack of power to the VCC solenoid circuit, a failed VCC apply solenoid inside the trans, PCM, wiring, etc...... you would have to diagnose it....but in that case the service prom would likely NOT help you as there is another cause for the failure.

question4u
09-22-04, 05:46 PM
I was getting the code39 for a while ..although I did reset the codes recently. I have 93 Deville. I have noticed the car shifts a lot more noticebaly now when in lower gears. Is what you are saying is that I should have a shop try replacing the PCM chip and if that doesnt work try changing the shift solenoids? From how I understand this..the PROM chip may eliminate the code39 in that it alows more of a window for tranny slipping. If the shift solenoids are changed though ..will that improve the shifting/performance? Thanks for any help.

joe_713
02-03-05, 02:32 PM
can n e 1 tell me where to find the Transmission Pressuse Solenoid on the transmission?

cadillactech
02-03-05, 08:35 PM
If you get the 39 code during the first few minutes of operation, the prom will help. If you have to drive the car for a while before the 39 sets, the prom will most likely not make a difference. This is the procedure that cadillac tech assistance advised us to use when diagnosing a potential prom related 39 dtc.