: CTS-V vs RS6 vs XFR



cts-v2009
09-30-09, 03:36 AM
Very nice comparison between these Supersaloon

http://www.gulfnews.com/Wheels/TestDrives/10352604.html

cts-v2009
09-30-09, 03:45 AM
This one’s got the right idea. It’s butch and more pumped up than the other two, with a monstrous power bulge that looks like it’s concealing a giant version of that horrible thing that burst through that guy’s stomach in Alien. And there is actually a monster in there; an old-fashioned, supercharged 6.2-litre, 556bhp Yank brute that’s tasked with propelling 1,950kg and relies on power alone. And the only thing the Caddy’s big-block wants to do is smell burning rubber. Or is that just me?

The powerplant is a bit like Big Moose in Archie comics; it goes “D’uh”, but gets the job done, and then some.

If you so much as blink, the vibrations sent through your body from your eyelids will unsettle the throttle pedal enough to take about half-an-inch off that tyre. And there is a lot of tyre; 225/40 fronts and 285/35 rears. Iron Maiden should use the CTS-V on their next world tour as a smoke machine.

It would engulf an entire rock arena in thick, vaporised-Michelin smoke. The crowd could also benefit from the hallucinogenic effect of the harmful chemicals in the rubber. I know, because I wound the windows right down and basked in the stuff.

So the Caddy is a lot of fun, in the sort of way that family saloons really shouldn’t be. I mean, you’re not going to pick your kids up from school and then take them for a spin and some doughnuts, are you? Not Caddy style doughnuts, anyway.

Its power is immense, sure, and the steering is good enough, the ride is on the harsh side for an American car and the suspension sits level most of the time. The dampers are compliant and inspire confidence, but with the TC off, you best leave the accelerator pedal alone. Well, unless you’re sponsored by Michelin. In fact, the Cadillac CTS-V feels a lot like a BMW M5, which is great. It’s just that the other two feel better. And faster, even though on paper they’re not. The Caddy’s 0-100km/h time of 3.8 seconds should obliterate even the Audi, but it really doesn’t feel that brutal. I must admit, I never ran those high threes; you can only get those times with optimal conditions — perfect surface, perfect tyres, perfect temperature, perfect driver.

Crucially, though, it handles confidently without nervously unsettling the rear through throttle-input alone. And best of all, it’s fantastic in the city and on highways. In fact, that’s its best attribute. So it’s not really a super-saloon in practice if what it does best is mild cruising. But then there is the Caddy’s price, which is unbelievable at Dh270,000. Until you check out the interior, that is. It’s filled with cheapish trim, plastics that would be shamed by Christmas-cracker toys, but the carbon-titanium trim looks great. Still, the seats are the best in this group and are lined with supple leather, there is loads of space and it does the family thing by the book. But every time you notice the trim and those Chevy sun visors, you’ll be reminded why the Caddy CTS-V is so affordable.

MReiland
09-30-09, 07:46 AM
Wow, I dind't realize the world class interior was 'that bad' :noidea:

aceofblitz
09-30-09, 08:22 AM
The writer is probably referring to the center console. Mine has this creaking sound when you press a button and it does feel quite cheap, especially the piano black trim annoys me to no limits.
But it's okay I'm too busy enjoying the alcantara steering, shift knob, touch screen, and supercharged engine.
But I do have to admit, RS6 + ECU tune = byebye cts-v

Vrocks
09-30-09, 10:37 AM
The writer is probably referring to the center console. Mine has this creaking sound when you press a button and it does feel quite cheap, especially the piano black trim annoys me to no limits.
But it's okay I'm too busy enjoying the alcantara steering, shift knob, touch screen, and supercharged engine.
But I do have to admit, RS6 + ECU tune = byebye cts-v

My console / buttons don't creak but I remember an early one had some minor issues (should be easily fixed). How about a modded RS6 vs a modded CTS-V?

Also, that review didn't come across as professionally done as some others that I've read.

Tasos
09-30-09, 11:48 AM
Obviously he has a woody for Audi, even at 3 times the price of the Caddy. Article was somewhat amusing but at an almost grade school level. And as for looks, the Audi is very uninspiring.

Jpjr
09-30-09, 12:11 PM
Obviously he has a woody for Audi, even at 3 times the price of the Caddy. Article was somewhat amusing but at an almost grade school level. And as for looks, the Audi is very uninspiring.

I love my interior. I think his comments are a joke - that Audi has an amazing motor but the rest of the car looks like an A6 with big wheels. Who would pay all that money given the alternatives.

MESSAGE TO CAR RAGS: Start doing more comparos based on what people can afford. That's right, price. Caddy perpetually loses because instead of comparing it to the A6 in its price range, they compare it to the RS6. This translates into handicapping the value proposition.

Show me an unbiased comparison of cars for people with $60k to spend and see who wins. Or else use the ZR1 next time they test an RS6.

cmicasa
09-30-09, 03:21 PM
I'm lost as to how U fellas are taking offense of this article. HE IS OBVIOUSLY a BRIT or a Brit educated... and if I kno one thing about BRITS.. Europeans as well.. They, unlike Americans, are extremely loyal to their own brands.

cmicasa
09-30-09, 03:35 PM
The writer is probably referring to the center console. Mine has this creaking sound when you press a button and it does feel quite cheap, especially the piano black trim annoys me to no limits.
But it's okay I'm too busy enjoying the alcantara steering, shift knob, touch screen, and supercharged engine.
But I do have to admit, RS6 + ECU tune = byebye cts-v


So what would a CTS-V + Tune =??? Because I have a strong feeling it would = "See Ya punk ass later RS6":want:

4DR_ZR1
09-30-09, 05:32 PM
:helpless:
The author appears to have allowed his Lamictal prescription to expire based on his wildly expressive opinions taken to a subjective extreme.

Florian
09-30-09, 11:53 PM
one of my biggest beefs with the new V is the cheap interior....the steering wheel controls are housed in garbagy plastic that will move if pressed too hard...truly uninspiring, the mag got it right.


F

JEM
10-01-09, 01:21 AM
The CTS interior is a huge step up over past GM and in general past US practice; the Audi is nicer (well, haven't been in a current RS6 but relative to the A6/S6) but the gap isn't what it'd have been five years ago.

Most of the world auto press has regarded the RS6 as a nice mechanical-engineering exercise but not all that to drive; in particular, what I've read says it rides like crap. This wouldn't be entirely unexpected; Audi is horribly hit-and-miss on their chassis tuning, some are great, some suck.

The Jag may be a fairly pretty shape, and the interior's built well but the interior design's a big step down from the past few Jags.

aceofblitz
10-01-09, 06:57 AM
RS6 has a twin turbo V10, with a tune alone it makes much more power than a CTS-V + tune. I don't like Audis, I think they are starting to look nice on the outside, but interior IMO is still generic with red lighting. but you can't deny that the engine is overkill, makes me wish the CTS-V had the LS9 instead of an LSA lol. RS6's are pretty badass no matter how you look at it, maybe you haven't seen any, I've seen a lot, and they're all modded.

cts-v2009
10-01-09, 01:42 PM
Believe me ... our CTS-V is faster than Rs6 , from my street race experince ... :) the Rs6 is heavy and ALL wheel drive make little slower after 160 ...

ctsv5005
10-01-09, 07:56 PM
A tuned RS6 is rocket. if correctly tuned, or i would say MTM tune would kill V2.

Vrocks
10-01-09, 09:19 PM
A tuned RS6 is rocket. if correctly tuned, or i would say MTM tune would kill V2.

What is so bad in the stock tune to allow so much power? What can really be done?Advance the timing, lean it out and open the throttle body 100% (assuming it isn't like the C55 Benz)? I've heard the 335 BMWs don't fully utilize their turbos - one or both are scaled back after 4,000rpm (I read it somewhere). Maybe that's what's going on with the Audi?

aceofblitz
10-01-09, 09:22 PM
If you check the ABT website, you can see that their ECU mod will upgrade the cars power from 580 to 700. I don't know about you guys, but thats huge jump.

dvandentop
10-01-09, 09:28 PM
we will never get that rs6 in the states though i am guessing, also a WAY higher price tag on it

Caroutisine
10-01-09, 10:17 PM
BRITS.. Europeans as well.. They, unlike Americans, are extremely loyal to their own brands.

Yes, this is true.
And BMW, MB and Audi interiors have nothing over the CTS.

concorso
10-01-09, 10:18 PM
In US dollars, I think the RS6 is around 150k....Thats ZR1 range...
Ive driven a stock RS6 and it gets off the line really briskly...the car is badass. Id love an RS6 Avant for the winter months and a CTS-V coupe for the summer months...that would be rewarding. :)

JEM
10-02-09, 05:11 AM
RS6 has a twin turbo V10, with a tune alone it makes much more power than a CTS-V + tune. I don't like Audis, I think they are starting to look nice on the outside, but interior IMO is still generic with red lighting. but you can't deny that the engine is overkill, makes me wish the CTS-V had the LS9 instead of an LSA lol. RS6's are pretty badass no matter how you look at it, maybe you haven't seen any, I've seen a lot, and they're all modded.

The RS6 Avant is perhaps the most beautiful car currently built, at least in pictures, but then I'm a wagon guy.

Audi does really nice interior designs, though the surfaces and materials in our '02 S6 aren't quite as good nor have they held up quite as well as our E39 BMWs (a '98 540i and an '00 M5.) I can't really speak to the C6 A6/S6/RS6 - I've been in a recent S6, haven't lived with one, and haven't been within 6000mi of an RS6.

But it all comes back to driveability, our '02 (C5) S6 is somewhat too stiff, the press I've seen on the current RS6 says it's at least as bad. Shame Audi can't figure out that turning the spring rate up to 11 doesn't make a car 'sporty'.

EXTM
10-02-09, 06:50 PM
it looks like the author was favored way good by the Jag dealer. to me its not that pro type of article when you compare to top end magazines.
no matter what that crap is, i like the CTS-V all around. for half the price of the RS6 as over here, CTS-V is winning all the time IMO.

EXTM
10-02-09, 06:54 PM
If you check the ABT website, you can see that their ECU mod will upgrade the cars power from 580 to 700. I don't know about you guys, but thats huge jump.

580 to 700HP!!! what ?!! they increased the boost from 10 psi to 100 psi!!
i dont believe german tuning. all these numbers are just from Air!!
i was dyno ing a Porsche GT2 with turbo kit upgrade the other day, the german guy said the GT2 should be at 750HP with the kit. it did 450 rwhp on the dyno, yeah, 450rwhp what crap gains for big $

American muscle all the way:thumbsup:

aceofblitz
10-02-09, 08:56 PM
My cousins GT2 got 750rwhp so yeah something wrong with your GT2 :P

nradcad
10-02-09, 10:23 PM
I can still feel the steamy heat from that article because it was a heavy load of sh*t.

nradcad
10-02-09, 10:29 PM
What cracks me up is generally speaking, germans design very sound and great looking autos. (I drove a BMW for the past 9 years until the V2). But that Audi looks about as uninspired as a crayon. Give me a break. Just look at that head on pic of the V or the power slide one and you can't say that car doesn't looks amazing. You just can't. Those could be posters and they would be pinups for car porn. The first pic of the Audi (2 of 17) looks like a old Honda during the days of the oil embargoes.

liqidvenom
10-03-09, 12:43 PM
So what would a CTS-V + Tune =??? Because I have a strong feeling it would = "See Ya punk ass later RS6":want:

where in the states have you driven a new rs6? and tune on a turbo vehicle > tune on a supercharged vehicle.

JEM
10-04-09, 12:46 AM
where in the states have you driven a new rs6? and tune on a turbo vehicle > tune on a supercharged vehicle.

There might be a couple in the country, but if so they're here as automaker evaluation cars on a re-export-or-crush permit. I'd be surprised if anyone were trying to federalize one yet, but I might be wrong.

Personally, the CTS-V's appearance is one of its weaker attributes, it's okay but a little too harsh and jaggy. With the first-gen CTS the base car was awful and the big wheels and simpler trim of the V made it acceptable; with the current car the base car is prettier. It wouldn't keep me from buying one if I were in the market for a sedan but I don't love the shape (as I did, and do, with my E39 M5.) I love the RS6 wagon, the fat fenders are wonderful, but of course we can't get them here and I wouldn't buy one even if we could for reasons I'll note below. The press slobbers all over the Jag but it just doesn't do anything for me, it's attractive but nothing special, I parked my M5 next to one the other day and there's no question which is the more attractive car (at least to me.) The old S-type might have had a few lines wrong but it was more distinctive and the interior in the '03-up cars was nicer and a lot more "Jag" than the XF.

And the RS6 is available in wagon form, a REAL wagon, as is the E60 M5 (in Europe, anyway) and the E63 (once again, don't think the current one is coming to the US) but not the Jag. Wagon availability is a big thing for me, our '02 S6 is adequate and a nice useful ski car but I'm thinking our next car will be a W211 Benz E55 (or maybe an E63 if the prices fall far enough) wagon. The CTS wagon borrows too much of the Opel Signum/Malibu Maxx/Lexus Sport-cross big-hatchback shape, it's a bit awkward with too much D-pillar and not enough rear glass and I'd be surprised if it's got even as much useful space as our Audi (and the Benz is much more capacious still.)

Audi never uses one part when three will do the job, they're often complex for complexity's sake (not to say the Sensonic brakes or Airmatic suspension in the W211 Benz wasn't overkill too) and horribly difficult cars to work on. The Kayaba-sourced DRC suspension on the last (C5-series, '03-04) RS6 was commonly referred to as 'Dealer Receives Cash' for its 120-day MTBF and five, six years down the road Audi's had to recall them all and replace everything.

I'm sure there's some little sensor or fitting on the current RS6 that's got a 50K-mile life and takes 20 hours of labor to replace. It's the Audi way.

komar
10-04-09, 02:45 PM
across the street neighbor just got a XFR this weekend, car looks awesome, but when i get my V we'll have to have real world testing...he he he

interior is very nice but it's 20K more than a V...

s4ologist
10-04-09, 07:13 PM
I owned a 2001 S4 that I had modded pretty significantly. My overall impression of Audis' aesthetics is that they are nice, possibly uninspiring on the outside, but have great fit-and-finish and material quality on the inside. When I had the S4, I thought about switching to the M3 (before pursuing the mod route), but when I sat inside one, it seemed fine, but nothing like the Audi in terms of the visual and tactile experience (materials and plastics). Also, the Audi was the least creaky/squeaky of any car I have ever owned.

The twin-turbo'd engines can gain an amazing amount from just a tune. I had a chipped ECU for my S4 that added 70 HP to the stock 250. Period. Huge difference. That said, since a larger fraction of the total power was from the turbos, lag became more noticeable. Later on (not much later), I just went for it all and had the RS4 turbos put in along with the fuel mods and exhaust, and the thing was putting 350 to the ground (pretty sweet in a 3550#, 4wd vehicle). Incidentally, subsequent Audis have gotten quite a bit heavier. I never messed with the handling, which was aguably only fair.

Given my above experience, I can totally see 700 HP after merely chipping the ECU (the 5.2 is almost 2x the size of the 2.7 in the prior S4) in the current iteration of the RS6 (you'd start to feel the lag, though). The thought of either 580 or 700 HP from a 4wd Audi makes me salivate. The thought of paying $120K or whatever it would cost makes me want to regurgitate a recent meal.

I know absolutely nothing about Jags.

I'm not complaining in the least about the V2. I very much like the car and plan on keeping it for a long time. Zero turbo lag is nice, it's easy to get 600+ HP from the car, lots of bang for the buck, handling is superb, and the interior is a combo of very nice and some cheap plastics, IMHO. The sound, especially with the intake and headers, it fantastic. And who could argue with the high-level gadgetry?

JBsZ06
10-04-09, 11:52 PM
I had fun driving the Jaguar XFR. Its a 510 hp luxury sport luxury ride thats first class.

that said..the CTS V is the better vehicle..

The audi's a cool ride but its still not a CTS V..(modded cars compared to stock cars nonsense)

V-Eight
10-05-09, 12:00 AM
Tbig-block w.

small block
The guy is an idiot.