: Help the new guy....P0171 & P0174 CEL's.



Black Hole
09-29-09, 08:41 PM
Slightly long......to give a little background.

I bought my 01 Sport last Wednesday from a private individual.

The car had the airbag light on when I test drove the car, and it's still on as of right now. 50 miles after leaving the guys house, I had a CEL on Thursday night. I disconnected the battery and it disappeared for the moment.

150 miles and 5 days later, the CEL reappeared. P0171 and P0174 were the codes according to Autozone, but the guy didn't clear the code and I still have the light.

101,400 miles on the car.

Granted I haven't owned the car for a full week yet, but it doesn't appear to have any issues with starting, idling, or driving. I did notice that it idled at 1200 rpm on one startup until driven and a couple of other times it felt a little rough when idling down at 600 or 700 rpm, but it wasn't drastic and a "normal" idle on the Wrangler I just sold was worse.

One other thing....on a cold start first thing in the morning, it does feel like the transmission doesn't want to shift out of first....revving to 4k or 4500 rpm and shifting when I get out of the gas a little. However, I live at the bottom of 2 hills, so I'm almost always going up hill with maybe 30-45% throttle when it does this and it's been slightly cooler for the last week in the high 40's-low 60's in the mornings. It seems to go away after the first gear change and it drives normally the rest of the way to work. I park in a parking garage at work so I don't really notice it when I'm on the way home. I guess I think it should shift just a little earlier given the throttle position. Transmission doesn't have any other issues though....shifts smooth at part or full throttle.

Since I'm new to the car, here is what I know.....I'm unsure if the timing belt has been changed.....a couple of the wiring loom clips on the sides of the engine are broken which makes me think that it may have been done (and the previous owner thought the same, but he may have just been trying to sell the car), but the previous owner bought the vehicle with just under 80k and he didn't have it replaced. Previous owner put just over 20k miles on the car in a little over 2 years. He had the transmission flushed, added a K&N airfilter, replaced the fuel filter, had the rear axle pinion seal replaced, topped off the diff fluid at the same time, control arm bushings replaced, 4 wheel alignment done about 15k miles ago, as well as regular maintenance. She supposedly uses a little oil.

I've read a little bit on here and found the most common answer is to replace the MAF with the 04-05 Saturn L-series 3.0 MAF. I also plan to change the plugs as the previous owner thought they were original.

Am I on the right path? I've had bad luck with attempting to "clean" MAF's in the past, but I'd hate to drop $75 if I should just try cleaning it or start somewhere else.

Thanks in advance.

Matt.

CateraMV6
09-29-09, 10:05 PM
I had similar symptoms and I think you need to look at this thread... you are overdue for new MAF sensor, should set you back around 70$.

AutoZone MAF 72.99$ (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-catera-cimarron-forum/180117-maf-sensor-72-99-reman-autozone.html)

mikem350
09-29-09, 10:10 PM
I clean MAFs with electrical contact cleaner all the time on non-Cad cars. Usually works if a lot of O2 codes present.

whoareyou4
09-29-09, 10:10 PM
Just after I bought my 01 Catera I also got the P0174. I was told it was likely the MAF sensor. I took the MAF sensor out and tried cleaning the wire with MAF sensor cleaner. It seemed to work for like maybe a week then the CEL came back on again with the same code. I then went out and bought a new one, installed it and the problem has not returned.
I made a mistake and bought it at the dealer, you can get it cheaper online like Rockauto.com or Gmpartsdirect.com It did not cause any driveabilty issue's while the CEL was on.

My Catera also shifts funny going from 1st to 2nd, It's a common issue, I think the fluid has to get up to a certain temp before it will shift easier, When me and my wife are going some place I usually start the car and let is sit in reverse for a minute or so while I wait for her and that takes care of it.

eastsidercaddy
09-30-09, 03:45 AM
Suprised no body's told you yet that when you start it up in the morning or when the engine's cold it does that naturally. It shifts higher because it warms up the car quicker. Totally normal. When I fist drove the car a couple of times on a startup, after having parked my car outside in the winter right after i bought it; i thought the same. Just let it warm up for around 10-15 before you go anywhere. I just start it an go. If it doesn't run the way i want then it needs work, simple.

That's perfectly fine. As long as everything else with powertrain is ok, then you shouldn't be worried. As for the codes- i don't know the info on them but if you have MAF trouble, get a new one. Sorry for the money burning info but it'll cost you MORE IN GAS if you dont get a new one. Again i had the same issue and now its gone. Car runs strong and hard when i want it to (everyday). :thumbsup:

CateraMV6
09-30-09, 01:10 PM
Your symptoms are exactly like mine... so you should unplug it and see if the car runs better during start up etc...

Then if it does its the MAF... then you can go buy a sensor replace it see how the car runs and if its the same simply return it... they have no way of telling if you had used it.

On another note 72$ is much better then 250$ so I don't see where the problem is.

If thats too much you can try a used one on eBay for around half of Autozone's price and bite the bullet because it may not work.

Black Hole
09-30-09, 11:12 PM
Well, I figured a $6 can of MAF cleaner won't kill me, so I tried that first....pulled the MAF out, sprayed it down from both ends, let it air dry, and reinstalled.

I also had the battery unplugged for 10 minutes or so.

Plugged the battery in, no CEL, and I have a slightly rougher idle....seems to hesitate at "tip-in" when first giving throttle.

I'm going to let it go for a day or two, but I'll probably order a MAF from Autozone....guy said it would take 1 day to ship to my local store.

CateraMV6
09-30-09, 11:58 PM
Well, I figured a $6 can of MAF cleaner won't kill me, so I tried that first....pulled the MAF out, sprayed it down from both ends, let it air dry, and reinstalled.

I also had the battery unplugged for 10 minutes or so.

Plugged the battery in, no CEL, and I have a slightly rougher idle....seems to hesitate at "tip-in" when first giving throttle.

I'm going to let it go for a day or two, but I'll probably order a MAF from Autozone....guy said it would take 1 day to ship to my local store.

Watch I bet it will come back in a few days, because even though the CEL hasn't been tripped yet, it will take some time before the PCM realizes that there is something wrong with the MAF and throw another code.

Mine did the same thing when I cleaned it... no CEL and slightly rough on startup...
I was even getting all sorts of misfire on cyl 2 and 3...

Black Hole
10-01-09, 09:46 AM
Yeah, I plan on just ponying up for a new one.....prolly go order/pay for one tonight after work.

Black Hole
10-08-09, 03:36 PM
Well, right after I paid for the new MAF, the damn light went off. Car has been idling and driving great and the light was off until this morning.

MAF is supposed to be here today, so I guess I'll still swap it out and hope that the CEL stays off. ;)

I'm gonna pickup some plugs and do an oil change this weekend as well.

Any recommendations for plugs? I've traditionally used copper plugs no matter what the original equipment was.....they're cheaper and I don't plan on owning the car for another 100k so I don't need six $15 sparkplugs that aren't going to out perform copper....

CateraMV6
10-08-09, 04:16 PM
Car came with BOSCH +3 so I would either go the same route or use the BOSCH Platinium +4... it has an open front for better flame...

Thats what I run in my car and I like them.