: 2009 powertrain warranty better.. See urgent message from gm



Krug Ford
09-22-09, 11:23 AM
GM Service Operations

**Urgent Message**

DCS 412

Message # A_0000001017






DATE: September 22, 2009

TO: All US GM Dealers, Service Directors, Warranty Administrators and Parts Managers

SUBJECT: Changes to the General Motors 100,000 Mile/5 Year Powertrain Warranty for 2010 Model Year Vehicles

This message is to provide information regarding a few changes to the GM Powertrain Warranty for 2010 model year vehicles. Previous model year vehicles are NOT affected by these changes.

For model year 2010, General Motors is announcing a slight change in the components that are covered under the 100,000 mile/5 year powertrain limited warranty on all light duty cars and trucks. The Warranty and Owner Assistance Information booklets have already been updated with these changes in all New 2010 model GM vehicles.

The following items have been eliminated from the Powertrain portion of the coverage for 2010, however, they will continue to be covered for the entire length of the Bumper to Bumper Limited Warranty for all GM vehicles. Select components may also be covered by Federal or State Emission coverage. Please refer to the Labor Time Guide and Policies and Procedures (P&P) manual for further details.
1) The entire pressurized fuel system (in-tank fuel pump, lines, fuel rail, injectors and return line.
2) The Engine/Powertrain Control Module (ECM/PCM) and module programming.
3) The Transmission Control Module (TCM), Transfer Case Control Module and module programming.
4) The Throttle Body Assembly.
5) Clutch and Pressure Plate for Manual Transmission.
6) Sealed Wheel Bearing Assemblies or Hub and Bearing Assemblies (axle shafts, seals and bearings that are part of
complete axle housings are still covered).

The following items have been added to the Powertrain portion of the coverage for 2010.
1) Engine oiling system including the hoses, lines and cooler.
2) Crankshaft Pulley.
3) Clutch Master Cylinder.

The GMVIS (GM Vehicle Inquiry System) and the new Global Warranty Management Investigate Vehicle History screen allows you to identify this new warranty by the abbreviated description under the Applicable Warranties section. The word warranty at the end of the description is abbreviated "WTY". Previous 100,000 mile/5 Year Warranties have the entire word spelled out.

60/100,000 Powertrain Coverage Limited WTY (2010 Model Year example)

Subsequent communications will address other programs that may be coordinated with the New Vehicle Limited Warranty on our vehicles.


The attached wording is what is outlined in all 2010 Warranty and Owner Assistance Information booklets for all GM vehicles.
Engine Coverage Includes: All internally lubricated parts, engine oil cooling hoses, lines and radiators. Also included are all actuators and electrical components internal to the engine (i.e.: Active Fuel Management Valve Lifter Oil Manifold, etc.) cylinder head, block, timing gears, timing chain, timing cover, oil pump/oil pump housing, OHC carriers, valve covers, oil pan, seals, gaskets, manifolds, flywheel, water pump, harmonic balancer, engine mount, starter motor, turbocharger and supercharger. Timing belts are covered until the first scheduled maintenance interval.

Exclusions: Excluded from the powertrain coverage are sensors, wiring, connectors, engine radiator, coolant hoses, coolant and heater core. Coverage on the engine cooling system begins at the inlet to the water pump and ends with the thermostat housing and/or outlet that attaches to the return hose. Also excluded is the entire pressurized fuel system (in-tank fuel pump, pressure lines, fuel rail(s), regulator, injectors and return line) as well as the Engine/Powertrain Control Module and/or module programming.

Transmission/Transaxle Coverage Includes: All internally lubricated parts, case, torque converter, mounts, seals and gaskets as well as any electrical components internal to the transmission/transaxle. Also covered are any actuators directly connected to the transmission (Slave cylinder, etc.).

Exclusions: Excluded from the powertrain coverage are transmission cooling lines, hoses, radiator, sensors, wiring and electrical connectors. Also excluded are the clutch and pressure plate as well as any Transmission Control Module and/or module programming.


The Transfer Case Coverage Includes: All internally lubricated parts, case, mounts, seals and gaskets as well as any electrical components internal to the transfer case. Also covered are any actuators directly connected to the transfer case as well as encoder motor.

Exclusions: Excluded from the powertrain coverage are transfer case cooling lines, hoses, radiator, sensors, wiring, electrical connectors as well as the transfer case control module and/or module programming.


The Drive Systems Coverage Includes: All internally lubricated parts, final drive housings, axle shafts and bearings, constant velocity joints, propeller shafts and universal joints. All mounts, supports, seals, gaskets as well as any electrical components internal to the drive axle. Also covered are any actuators directly connected to the drive axle (i.e.: front differential actuator, etc).

Exclusions: Excluded from the powertrain coverage are all wheel bearings, drive wheel front and rear hub bearings, locking hubs,drive system cooling, lines, hoses, radiator, sensors, wiring and electrical connectors related to drive systems as well as any drive system control module and/or module programming.


Courtesy Transportation Program
During the 100,000 mile/5 year warranty coverage period, alternate transportation and/or reimbursement of certain transportation expenses will be available under the Courtesy Transportation Program if your vehicle requires warranty repairs. Several transportation options are available. Refer to the Owners Manual for details,


What Is Not Covered
All the above items are not covered for damage due to accident, misuse, alteration, insufficient or improper maintenance, contaminated or poor quality fuel. Medium Duty trucks, including the C4500, are excluded from this powertrain coverage. For complete details refer to your Warranty and Owner Assistance Information Booklet.


Roadside Assistance Program
General Motors is proud to offer the response, security, and convenience of the 24-hour Roadside Assistance Program for a period of 100,000 miles/5 years, whichever comes first. Refer to your Owner Manual for details, or consult your dealer/retailer. The Roadside Assistance contact information is listed in the Customer Assistance Offices section of the Warranty and Owner Assistance Information booklet.


Goodwill Adjustments on Powertrain Items
Based on the addition of the New 100,000 Mile/5 Year Powertrain Warranty, GM would expect that very few powertrain repairs would be considered for Goodwill adjustments outside the 100,000 Mile/5 Year Powertain Warranty period. We ask that dealers continue to analyze goodwill decisions on a case by case basis and recognize that time and mileage are always a factor.

The following labor operations make up the entire list that is included in the New 2010 Powertrain coverage. The Coverage Code section of the labor Time Guide will be updated with this information in the November 2009 release.
Activity information:Changes to the General Motors 100,000 Mile/5 Year Powertrain Warranty for 2010 Model Year Vehicles - A_0000001017Activity location:General MotorsActivity date:09/22/2009

Krug Ford
09-22-09, 11:24 AM
Anyone looking for a good deal will want to get the 2009... Look how much that eliminated for 2010..

tedcmiller
09-22-09, 11:27 AM
This improvement applies only to 2010 models, not to 2009 models as the thread title implies.

Razorecko
09-22-09, 01:16 PM
...doesnt sound like an improvement. Sounds more like a warranty downgrade for all 2010+ models. - Nice way to save costs by pulling things covered by the powertrain warranty.

Vrocks
09-22-09, 01:20 PM
The following items have been eliminated from the Powertrain portion of the coverage for 2010, however, they will continue to be covered for the entire length of the Bumper to Bumper Limited Warranty for all GM vehicles. Select components may also be covered by Federal or State Emission coverage. Please refer to the Labor Time Guide and Policies and Procedures (P&P) manual for further details.

Items were eliminated from the powertrain portion and moved under the bumper to bumper limited warranty. If I understand this correctly, we're basically losing a year and / or 50,000 miles of coverage on the newly excluded parts, right? Instead of the usual 5yrs & 100,00mi of coverage those parts would be under warranty for only 4yrs & 50,000mi.

CIWS
09-22-09, 02:20 PM
Looks to be worse for powertrain coverage.

neuronbob
09-22-09, 02:51 PM
Items were eliminated from the powertrain portion and moved under the bumper to bumper limited warranty. If I understand this correctly, we're basically losing a year and / or 50,000 miles of coverage on the newly excluded parts, right? Instead of the usual 5yrs & 100,00mi of coverage those parts would be under warranty for only 4yrs & 50,000mi.

Only if you have a 2010. 2009, those things are covered.

Sounds like a cost-saving move that will help some small amount to get GM off the federal dole quicker.

Krug Ford
09-22-09, 02:58 PM
better coverage on a 2009

Vrocks
09-22-09, 04:01 PM
Only if you have a 2010. 2009, those things are covered.

Sounds like a cost-saving move that will help some small amount to get GM off the federal dole quicker.
OK, makes sense. I guess this is a good way to sell more extended warranties, cut back on the "good will" servicing, promote the sale of new cars (people may be less inclined to purchase good used vehicles). I wonder how much this will impact the residual value on the '10s and beyond.

I can't blame them for continuing to support the original buyer while cutting back support (a bit) on the resales. I also think it's a response to how reliable cars are becoming these days - I not expecting much of an impact on the residual value.

Gary Wells
09-22-09, 06:40 PM
I thought that I had read a few weeks ago that GM was already off of Uncle Sam's money. Seems like a major savings in their money program to me. And worst of all, I personally don't think that GM has resolved any significant # of issues with the wheel clicking problem, which is starting to sound like a bearing / hub / wheel issue.

thebigjimsho
09-22-09, 08:36 PM
better coverage with the '09. fewer bugs with the '10...

Gary Wells
09-22-09, 09:15 PM
better coverage with the '09. fewer bugs with the '10...
I concur with your 1st statement, but not necessarily your 2nd. I didn't think that there are any '10's CTS-V's out yet, so it seems to me that we can only assume that the '10s will have fewer bugs. It will be interesting to see how many complaints there are on the '10's regarding the front wheel clicking issues. If there are virtually very few or considerably less than the '09's one of 2 things can be assumed, the wheel clicking issue was a time related component or discrepancy issue that resolved itself in workmanship or component changes such as brands, or the issue was resolved by GM and they may not be interested in helping us on the '09's. There could be a lot of money at stake on the wheel clicking issue. Just my thoughts, I hope that I am incorrect in my thought process, but I am definitely open to feedback.

tedcmiller
09-22-09, 09:34 PM
I thinks I understand the thread title better now. It was intended to imply that the 2009 warranty is better than the 2010 warranty since many things originally covered for 5 years on the 2009 models is now covered for only four years on the 2010 models. GM calls this a "slight change." Good grief! I hope they don't decide to make a major change.

Jpjr
09-23-09, 10:12 AM
Someone needs to look into the second derivative here before drawing any conclusion.

For example, let me present a contrarian viewpoint:

Maybe GM does care about the owner experience and has identified parts that are wearing prematurely and extended those warranties. To pay for it, perhaps they have reduced the warranties for parts that they don't expect will fail based upon warranty claims to date and additional testing.

For example, I would bet $1 that more master brake cylinders fail than fuel pumps.

-Remember, I have no idea if any of this is true and granted it is a stretch. I'm just saying that if it turned out the parts they added are generally bad parts based upon facts, then this could be a good thing.

Gary Wells
09-23-09, 10:22 AM
If that were true, then forum members would have probably heard of the parts wearing prematurely, and of the items that GM extended, which of those have you heard are a problem, and conversely:
The modification of the coverage on item # 6 should give you some direction into which way GM headed on this.
For example, they already know that the front wheel bearings are an issue on some of our cars

Jpjr
09-23-09, 11:06 AM
If that were true, then forum members would have probably heard of the parts wearing prematurely, and of the items that GM extended, which of those have you heard are a problem, and conversely:
The modification of the coverage on item # 6 should give you some direction into which way GM headed on this.
For example, they already know that the front wheel bearings are an issue on some of our cars

I have been on this forum for a while now and can say that it is not a representative sample of V's on the road. Mustang forums are, every problem you ever heard of shows up on the boards because sales are so high. Here, almost all of the problems I have had with my car are not mentioned except the really widespread probs (e.g. V1 pumpkin, STS-v power steering, etc.).

I have no proof to assert that I am right, except that I'm much happier that a $1000 master cylinder is extended over a $100 fuel pump.

Gary Wells
09-23-09, 12:42 PM
I have not been on the forum very long, I am a newbie to the forum, but not to vehicles in general, cars specifically, and my new 450 mile '09 CTS-V is # 8 of Gm cars that I have previously owned, including 2 vettes, 1 of which I still own and use as a dd, 5 turbo Buicks, 1 of which I still own, and the Cad. I do not want to put a negative twist on this thread, forum, *General Motors*, nor Cadillac, but I certainly hope that you are correct, and I certainly hope that I do not have the front wheel - bearing issue that some peeps have had. I love my new Cad and plan to keep it in pristine condition & maintenance, but I am hoping that I do not have to bite the bullet myself on such an expensive fix.

Vrocks
09-23-09, 01:53 PM
I have not been on the forum very long, I am a newbie to the forum, but not to vehicles in general, cars specifically, and my new 450 mile '09 CTS-V is # 8 of Gm cars that I have previously owned, including 2 vettes, 1 of which I still own and use as a dd, 5 turbo Buicks, 1 of which I still own, and the Cad. I do not want to put a negative twist on this thread, forum, *General Motors*, nor Cadillac, but I certainly hope that you are correct, and I certainly hope that I do not have the front wheel - bearing issue that some peeps have had. I love my new Cad and plan to keep it in pristine condition & maintenance, but I am hoping that I do not have to bite the bullet myself on such an expensive fix.

Hey Gary, your '09 is fine and my '10 is covered as well. I just lost one year and 50,000 miles of coverage on some parts but I picked up a few as well... I don't think I'll have this V for more than 4 years or 50,000 miles anyway, and the fact that most components are still covered for 5yrs and 100,000mi means I'm not really going to worry about this.

Gary Wells
09-23-09, 07:27 PM
Hey Gary, your '09 is fine and my '10 is covered as well. I just lost one year and 50,000 miles of coverage on some parts but I picked up a few as well... I don't think I'll have this V for more than 4 years or 50,000 miles anyway, and the fact that most components are still covered for 5yrs and 100,000mi means I'm not really going to worry about this.

Thanks for the consolation, but my '09 is fine because it only has about 450 miles on it, and the front wheel clicking noise generally emerges about 3000 miles or so. There have been a few earlier but most seem to notice it at about 3K miles. I would guess that the % of '09 CTS-V's that have had an issue with the wheel clicking is small, but we will probably never know. I intend on keeping my V as it is probably the last nice car that I can afford to buy. And, so far, I do love it enough to keep it anyway. Truly a great car in many respects.

thebigjimsho
09-24-09, 01:58 AM
I am looking forward to getting a '10 next year...