: Subwoofer Install Done



Tony407
09-16-09, 05:01 AM
Talk about a long work in progress! Took about 3 weeks but I'm finally finished. It's an Image Dynamics IDMAX 10-inch.

I used a LOT of damping material. Got it online from a company called Second Skin. The shiny stuff is Damplifier Pro, which is a viscoelastic anti-vibration mat. I applied it to the entire rear seat area (every exposed metal surface) and the rear package shelf. The rear seat cushions come out very easily as does the package shelf. I temporarily removed everything from the shelf and applied Damplifier Pro underneath. I also used it on most of the trunk metal surfaces. In addition, I used another product from Second Skin called Luxury Liner Pro. It's a heavy, vinyl closed-cell noise barrier. I applied it under the rear bottom seat cushion and under the rear package shelf. My main goal was the reduction of vibrations that would most likely ensue after adding the sub. My secondary concern was road noise and a reduction of cabin drone from my Flowmaster 44 mufflers. I have to tell you I was COMPLETELY surprised and VERY happy with the results. No vibrations whatsoever and and an astonishing reduction of road noise from the rear tires and trunk area, as well as a virtual elimination of the drone. I couldn't be happier. The road noise benefit was the real surprise and I have to say that now when I'm cruising at 70 mph on the highway the V is about as quiet as my last car, a 2009 Jaguar XF. Sweet!!!

Running the wiring couldn't have been easier. The only wire I had to run to the front of the car was the bass control knob, which I mounted on the dash. Other than that, thanks to a trunk-mounted battery, the rest was a breeze. I installed a Rockford Fosgate 3Sixty.2 which I have to admit I really don't need now but wanted to use anyway with the anticipation of later upgrading my front soundstage speakers. I used a JL Audio HD 750/1 sub amp and couldn't be happier with the results. This is the first setup I've used with a free air (infinite baffle) design. The result is insanely deep, accurate bass with a sacrifice in overall output - which is fine with me. It still gets incredibly loud but won't impress a bass head that listens to rap music with his windows down at a red light at the risk of being shot in the face. LOL

Anyway, here's some pictures. Hope everyone likes!!!

Tony
52645

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52650

ctsv5005
09-16-09, 06:20 AM
how much??

video please...


nice.... :-)

readyact
09-16-09, 07:13 AM
Dud you did some stuff. Very nice setup too bad some on here will complain about the amount of weight you added to the car.

Tony407
09-16-09, 01:04 PM
how much??

video please...


nice.... :-)

Man, I dunno. I've had that sub for at least 5 years.

The amp was around $500 at Woofers Etc. The 3Sixty was probably a little less.

The sound proofing stuff was at least $500 or so, and I still have a lot of it left over and will use it later.

Video? Video of....?

Tony

Tony407
09-16-09, 01:37 PM
Dud you did some stuff. Very nice setup too bad some on here will complain about the amount of weight you added to the car.

Yeah, it did pain me a bit to do this. At least the weight is centered over the rear wheels!

Tony

stealthjr
09-16-09, 06:30 PM
Nice work!

I assume you grabbed the wires from the factory amp in the rear quarter right? Can you tell me specifically what wires you grabbed please?

Thanks,

Robert

Tony407
09-16-09, 08:24 PM
Nice work!

I assume you grabbed the wires from the factory amp in the rear quarter right? Can you tell me specifically what wires you grabbed please?

Thanks,

Robert

Yes, I did. Give me a bit to look into this...I forgot already!

Tony

stealthjr
09-16-09, 08:29 PM
Yes, I did. Give me a bit to look into this...I forgot already!

Tony


Cool, thanks! :thumbsup:

SlvrBullIT
09-16-09, 11:15 PM
Nice cadi logo on the sub-woofer

AuPanda
09-16-09, 11:37 PM
I really like the idea of some extra sound deadning just to cut down the road/tire noise.

ctsv5005
09-17-09, 08:31 AM
Man, I dunno. I've had that sub for at least 5 years.

The amp was around $500 at Woofers Etc. The 3Sixty was probably a little less.

The sound proofing stuff was at least $500 or so, and I still have a lot of it left over and will use it later.

Video? Video of....?

Tony

video of you playing some good music :-)

perfect
09-17-09, 04:25 PM
Sweet setup!!

I have a pair of 12" IDMAX's in my V1 in a sealed box. Sounds great although I didn't do nearly enough deadening like you.


I am digging the Caddy logo on the back of the sub but you are covering the sub's vented pole piece which is a big no-no in the car audio world. As long as your not really pushing your sub you won't cause too many problems.

Tony407
09-17-09, 04:34 PM
Sweet setup!!

I have a pair of 12" IDMAX's in my V1 in a sealed box. Sounds great although I didn't do nearly enough deadening like you.


I am digging the Caddy logo on the back of the sub but you are covering the sub's vented pole piece which is a big no-no in the car audio world. As long as your not really pushing your sub you won't cause too many problems.

I bet those two 12s really sound good. ID makes some nice subs.

Good observation about the vent. It's something I considered carefully before putting it on. The V symbol is actually a little curved, so there is some space behind it for air to move around a bit. Obviously not as much as originally intended, but as you pointed out as long as I don't push the sub too hard for too long I might be okay. Still, it does concern me a little. We'll see how she holds up. Thanks for the heads up.

Tony

LV_V
09-17-09, 07:40 PM
I would also be VERY worried about covering the vent on the magnet. Even pushing a low amount of power you may have problems, especially running it IB.

But very very nice install! I had an IDMAX12 running IB in my V1 and it was awesome. Great to see someone who actually knows something about car audio on here!

Tony407
09-17-09, 09:47 PM
I would also be VERY worried about covering the vent on the magnet. Even pushing a low amount of power you may have problems, especially running it IB.

But very very nice install! I had an IDMAX12 running IB in my V1 and it was awesome. Great to see someone who actually knows something about car audio on here!

Again, very valid point about running it IB. Here's a picture of the emblem close up. There's a similar gap on the bottom. I can feel some air moving in and out when playing music so I hope this will be enough.

Tony
52678

gravedigger
09-18-09, 12:24 AM
I have a JL 10w7 with a 500.1 JL amp... sounds crazy.

stealthjr
09-21-09, 09:29 AM
Yes, I did. Give me a bit to look into this...I forgot already!

Tony

Any luck?

Thanks,

Robert

1BlinkGone
09-23-09, 05:18 PM
Very nice work, Tony. I'm into that kind of detail and workmanship. Doing the additional insulation while doing the job is great stuff. Nice touch.

Tony407
09-24-09, 01:51 AM
Any luck?

Thanks,

Robert

I'm so sorry, Robert...not yet. Is this something you need soon? I just started going back to school full-time after an 18-year hiatus. Needless to say I've been a little preoccupied and stressed out! LOL

Tony

stealthjr
09-24-09, 09:15 AM
I'm so sorry, Robert...not yet. Is this something you need soon? I just started going back to school full-time after an 18-year hiatus. Needless to say I've been a little preoccupied and stressed out! LOL

Tony


Don't sweat it...I'll manage.

Thanks.

RemoWilliams
02-08-10, 04:32 PM
Do any of you have the wiring details to get a line out and remote led for a sub amp?

Baxman
02-08-10, 11:48 PM
I have to tell you I was COMPLETELY surprised and VERY happy with the results. No vibrations whatsoever and and an astonishing reduction of road noise from the rear tires and trunk area, as well as a virtual elimination of the drone. I couldn't be happier. The road noise benefit was the real surprise and I have to say that now when I'm cruising at 70 mph on the highway the V is about as quiet as my last car, a 2009 Jaguar XF. Sweet!!!




My last car transmitted a lot of road noise, especially when the road was wet. I gutted the interior and Dynamated it. It made a huge difference.

The V's tires are so loud on our stud-roughened road surfaces that much of the time at freeway speed the phone voice-recognition cannot comprehend. Because road noise in the V does not worsen on wet roads, this leads me to believe (erroneously?) that the noise is transmitted through the tires, wheels, and suspension to the chasis, not through the wheel-wells and floorpan. If that is true, sound -deadening wouldn't be all that effective. Can any car audiophiles confirm ths? Could Tony's success be related to quieting his aftermaket exhaust?

Tony407
02-09-10, 03:55 AM
Do any of you have the wiring details to get a line out and remote led for a sub amp?

I have not been able to find ANY dedicated wire for the remote input. Not a single wire in the trunk supplies 12 volts only when the stereo is on. I've heard someone, somewhere say that there was one up front but for the life of me I can't remember more. Plus, any wire that I've used thus far that gives me 12 volts only when the ignition is on also gives me a voltage spike every time you unlock or unlock the doors, open the trunk, etc. It's enough that it turns your amp on and off and gives the sub a nice thump. Someone with more knowledge than me had a specific name for our type of wiring in the V which is responsible for this. I don't like it one bit. I imagine that if I did some more probing around with the wiring in the front of the car, I might be able to find at least one good 12-volt source that doesn't have the spikes, or even better a dedicated radio wire. Go figure.

Tony


Tony

Tony407
02-09-10, 04:11 AM
My last car transmitted a lot of road noise, especially when the road was wet. I gutted the interior and Dynamated it. It made a huge difference.

The V's tires are so loud on our stud-roughened road surfaces that much of the time at freeway speed the phone voice-recognition cannot comprehend. Because road noise in the V does not worsen on wet roads, this leads me to believe (erroneously?) that the noise is transmitted through the tires, wheels, and suspension to the chasis, not through the wheel-wells and floorpan. If that is true, sound -deadening wouldn't be all that effective. Can any car audiophiles confirm ths? Could Tony's success be related to quieting his aftermaket exhaust?

Keep in mind that I used conventional sound deadening material (similar to Dynomat) as well as a very heavy visco-elastic mat on the areas beneath the rear seats, rear wheel wells, and behind the rear seats.

I have always been skeptical of claims that extensive sound deadening was an effective way of reducing road noise, but in my particular case it worked VERY well. I think my skepticism was from an article I read years and years ago where they measured the road noise in a Honda Accord I believe, before and after a very thorough installation of Dynamat - which if I remember correctly was the only brand available at the time. It wouldn't surprise me if it was the late 80s or early 90s. The testers reported that there was almost no difference at all in measurable sound levels. And this was a very extreme installation where they had pulled the seats and carpeting out, etc. At any rate, this sort of scientific comparison stuck with me for a long time as did my understandable skepticism. I always thought sound deadening was solely for reducing vibrations and resonances in door panels and trunks, and not for road noise despite claims by Dynamat (for example) to the contrary. All I can think of is that newer advances in damping technology affords better results than what was available at the time. Bottom line is that I noticed a very sizable difference in road noise and exhaust drone. Also keep in mind that I now have a 3/4-inch high-density fiber board baffle behind the rear seat as well, when there was nothing there before. I'm sure this has some effect on noise that enters from the trunk.

Tony

Tony407
02-12-10, 04:30 AM
Do any of you have the wiring details to get a line out and remote led for a sub amp?

Here's the two wires I used for the subwoofer. This is out of the Bose amp, behind the paneling on the driver's side of the trunk. Green wire with the black stripe and the blue wire with the white stripe, both coming out of the third (rear-most) connector.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r136/Tony407/DSC04959.jpg?t=1265966929
Here's the wire I eventually used for the remote input (with relay) on my amp. It's the red wire in the upper-right-hand corner of the junction box. Note there is a white plastic cover that you need to unclip to reveal these wires. This junction box is above the battery in the trunk. This wire provided 12 volts only when the car is running, and NOT when in accessory mode. So if you want to listen to the stereo with the engine off, you have to have the "key" in the ON position. This wire does not see the voltage spikes I found in the others that makes your amp come on every time you lock or unlock the doors or open the trunk.

These photos are also for Robert (StealthJr), who asked me about them about 5 months ago! Sorry for the long delay!!! -Tony
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r136/Tony407/DSC04957.jpg?t=1265967104

RemoWilliams
02-12-10, 04:09 PM
The wire location pics are great, thanks. Do you know if the Subwoofer out you taped into is already crossed over, or if it is full range? If possible I would like to access a full range signal and let my amp cross it over.

Does anyone have the wiring diagrams for the Bose amp?

Thanks.

Tony407
02-12-10, 05:44 PM
The wire location pics are great, thanks. Do you know if the Subwoofer out you taped into is already crossed over, or if it is full range? If possible I would like to access a full range signal and let my amp cross it over.

Does anyone have the wiring diagrams for the Bose amp?

Thanks.

I do not know if it's crossed over or not. If it is, I still use my amp to low pass the signal anyway.

Great question. Maybe I'll check it out some more.

Tony

RemoWilliams
02-12-10, 06:33 PM
I'm curious. Why did you use the 3Sixty. It would seem that it would only be necessary for a full system in install to allow the tuning of various channels. All you need to install a sub is a mono sub signal, which I bet you can get right off the Bose amp. Am I missing something? Just trying to determine if I need one.

NeedCTS-v
02-12-10, 08:09 PM
The wire location pics are great, thanks. Do you know if the Subwoofer out you taped into is already crossed over, or if it is full range? If possible I would like to access a full range signal and let my amp cross it over.

Does anyone have the wiring diagrams for the Bose amp?

Thanks.

Remo,

The sub is certainly crossed over but probably not time aligned. The rest of the drivers in the car are probably time aligned to the sub (given that they are "closer" to the listener than the sub is). The million dollar question with the sub is the extent to which it is equalized and further more, how much dynamic equalization is done to the sub as gain is increased. It has documented that Bose does attenuate the lowest frequencies as gain increases to protect the driver in some of their designs.

The problem is that if you add a sub that is capable of playing to, let's say 35hz, and the Bose sub is capable of only safely playing down to 50hz at higher volume, then the aftermarket sub will also inherit this equalization.

To your original question, there is no way to grab a "clean signal" from the Bose amp short of using some sort of signal restoration device such as the 360.2 or an Audison BitOne type of processor. Analog summing devices or line converters will simply extend the processed signal to your aftermarket amplifier.

I do have the wiring diagram for the Bose (at my office) which I could probably scan and post next week. What I do not have the a break down of Bose's XO points, their channel delay info or 5.1 discreet channel logic information. What I can say with some confidence is that they are probably using a fairly complicated channel steering algorithm which means even your left and right signals are probably not playing a true stereo signal but some form of "matrix-ed" hybrid stereo designed to steer the center channel image.

RemoWilliams
02-12-10, 11:14 PM
Thank you NeedCTS-v. Good information. The way these new systems are so highly integrated into the cars, it really makes if difficult to upgrade them. I wish they would add a stereo line out for those wanting to change up the system. That would just be to nice and easy.

For those who have added a sub, was it worth it? How does it sound?

Tony407
02-13-10, 03:06 AM
Thank you NeedCTS-v. Good information. The way these new systems are so highly integrated into the cars, it really makes if difficult to upgrade them. I wish they would add a stereo line out for those wanting to change up the system. That would just be to nice and easy.

For those who have added a sub, was it worth it? How does it sound?

I used the 3Sixty to have some equalization bands, which I never ended up using because I couldn't get the Rockford Fosgate software to work on my laptop. Therefore, I am not using it any more and it's collecting dust somewhere. I cannot hear any difference whatsoever between using it and just putting the two above wires directly into the high-voltage inputs on my JL amp. And my sub does not seem limited at all to any low frequencies, including down to 10Hz from my test disc.

How it sounds is directly related to your particular setup. My 10" IDMAX mounted behind the seat in an infinite baffle setting sounds very good for most types of music - it gets really, really deep but does not "boom" as well as other types of sub setups. Others may enjoy a sealed enclosure, and yet others might like a port. I myself would like to change my setup to a more elaborate aperiodic enclosure when I get some free time. I also used a considerable amount of sound deadening material which is a must otherwise you'll hear more rattles than bass. Re-read this last sentence and take heed - it is probably the most important and most neglected part of adding an aftermarket sub.

Regarding time alignment, to each his own. I have TA in my Mustang in a fairly elaborate system and after playing around with it quite exhaustively, including the sub settings, in general I like the way it sounds without it better. Some people swear by it. I doubt most people will notice too much of a difference and if you've never had it, you'll probably never miss it.

Tony

RemoWilliams
02-20-10, 08:25 PM
Thank for all the info. One more question.

Tony407 - In your first pic of the wires you tapped for signal, which is positive and negative?

readyact
02-20-10, 09:11 PM
I installed a Rockford mono sub amp in the V2 coming of the MTX REQ box pushing a single enclosed JL W7 subwoofer and the bass response is ridiculous. I couldn't be happier.

Below is the wiring scheme courtesy of NGIARDINA over at the CTS forum as the Alpine/Bose setup in the CTS is exactly the same in the V series:

The line-level inputs at the Bose amp in the driver's side of the trunk are:

Signal - Connector - Pin - Wire Color
RF+ X3 3 Lt Green
RF- X3 4 Lt Green
LF+ X3 11 Tan
LF- X3 12 Dk Green
RR+ X4 3 Dk Blue
RR- X4 4 Black
LR+ X4 11 Brown
LR- X4 12 Brown
Sub+ X4 5 White
Sub- X4 6 Pink

The speaker-level outputs of the Bose amp are as follows:

RF+(Door) X1 7 Lt Green
RF-(Door) X1 3 Dk Green
RF+(Dash) X2 7 Lt Green
RF-(Dash) X2 6 Purple
LF+(Door) X1 1 Tan
LF-(Door) X1 2 Gray
LF+(Dash) X2 4 Black
LF-(Dash) X2 5 Yellow
RR+(Door) X2 15 Dk Blue
RR-(Door) X2 14 Lt Blue
RR+(Deck) X2 3 Tan
RR-(Deck) X2 2 Red
LR+(Door) X2 16 Brown
LR-(Door) X2 8 Yellow
LR+(Deck) X2 11 Tan
LR-(Deck) X2 10 White
Sub+ X1 5 Dk Blue/White
Sub- X1 6 Lt Green/Black

RemoWilliams
02-20-10, 11:25 PM
Yes :highfive: thanks readyact. Just what I was wanting.

You should put up some pics of you setup. I have a JL Audio 10W6 I am installing that will be powered with a JL Audio 500/1 amp.

Tony407
02-21-10, 03:11 AM
Sub+ X1 5 Dk Blue/White
Sub- X1 6 Lt Green/Black

Yep. Blue/White = Positive
Green/Black = Negative

Tony

deedubb
02-22-10, 12:27 AM
Looks great man! Only thing left is to find a couple of black plastic caps to cover those bolts.

RemoWilliams
03-14-10, 11:31 AM
How did you guys get the bottom back seat cushion off to dynamat?

Tony407
03-14-10, 04:38 PM
How did you guys get the bottom back seat cushion off to dynamat?

Pull straight up, then forward.

Tony

NeedCTS-v
03-15-10, 10:23 AM
Readyact (or anyone else who might know),

Do you know if volume is controlled from the head unit or from the amplifier? This is something I can check this upcoming weekend but wanted to see if someone already knew.

I have been assuming that the volume had been controlled by the amp (via data from the HU) so I've used the HL outputs from the amp into my BitOne but I ran into a problem this weekend.

While tuning (a couple of hours worth) my batteries went down, but upon investigation it was the car battery and not the system battery as I would have suspected. What this would indicate is that the Bose amplifier may be drawing more current than my aftermarket amps.

I would have assumed the opposite to be true given the topology of the new amps vs. the Bose. The only thing that I can imagaine is that because I'm basically running zero output gain on my amps, that the Bose is running "full tilt" when the volume is up and effectively wiped out the car battery which runs all of the OEM equipment.

An easy fix would be to grab the signal input wires going into the Bose amp but I'm wondering if I'd lose the factory volume (steering wheel & dash).

Anyone?

Thanks!

I installed a Rockford mono sub amp in the V2 coming of the MTX REQ box pushing a single enclosed JL W7 subwoofer and the bass response is ridiculous. I couldn't be happier.

Below is the wiring scheme courtesy of NGIARDINA over at the CTS forum as the Alpine/Bose setup in the CTS is exactly the same in the V series:

The line-level inputs at the Bose amp in the driver's side of the trunk are:

Signal - Connector - Pin - Wire Color
RF+ X3 3 Lt Green
RF- X3 4 Lt Green
LF+ X3 11 Tan
LF- X3 12 Dk Green
RR+ X4 3 Dk Blue
RR- X4 4 Black
LR+ X4 11 Brown
LR- X4 12 Brown
Sub+ X4 5 White
Sub- X4 6 Pink

The speaker-level outputs of the Bose amp are as follows:

RF+(Door) X1 7 Lt Green
RF-(Door) X1 3 Dk Green
RF+(Dash) X2 7 Lt Green
RF-(Dash) X2 6 Purple
LF+(Door) X1 1 Tan
LF-(Door) X1 2 Gray
LF+(Dash) X2 4 Black
LF-(Dash) X2 5 Yellow
RR+(Door) X2 15 Dk Blue
RR-(Door) X2 14 Lt Blue
RR+(Deck) X2 3 Tan
RR-(Deck) X2 2 Red
LR+(Door) X2 16 Brown
LR-(Door) X2 8 Yellow
LR+(Deck) X2 11 Tan
LR-(Deck) X2 10 White
Sub+ X1 5 Dk Blue/White
Sub- X1 6 Lt Green/Black

Scott2012
08-04-13, 02:44 PM
Here's the two wires I used for the subwoofer. This is out of the Bose amp, behind the paneling on the driver's side of the trunk. Green wire with the black stripe and the blue wire with the white stripe, both coming out of the third (rear-most) connector.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r136/Tony407/DSC04959.jpg?t=1265966929
Here's the wire I eventually used for the remote input (with relay) on my amp. It's the red wire in the upper-right-hand corner of the junction box. Note there is a white plastic cover that you need to unclip to reveal these wires. This junction box is above the battery in the trunk. This wire provided 12 volts only when the car is running, and NOT when in accessory mode. So if you want to listen to the stereo with the engine off, you have to have the "key" in the ON position. This wire does not see the voltage spikes I found in the others that makes your amp come on every time you lock or unlock the doors or open the trunk.

These photos are also for Robert (StealthJr), who asked me about them about 5 months ago! Sorry for the long delay!!! -Tony
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r136/Tony407/DSC04957.jpg?t=1265967104

Just in the process of adding an amp and woofer... This post is really helpful. Only problem, I don't have this pink wire in my harness. Anyone know if there is switched power in this area or over by the bose amp?
Thanks!

Tony407
08-05-13, 01:15 AM
Just in the process of adding an amp and woofer... This post is really helpful. Only problem, I don't have this pink wire in my harness. Anyone know if there is switched power in this area or over by the bose amp?
Thanks!

Wish I could help you. I don't have the car any more.

Anyone?

Tony

Scott2012
08-24-13, 10:04 PM
No big deal, I ended running a remote wire up the drivers side and tapped an ignition wire as a trigger to a relay.
I'm using an audio control line converter, but its lacking some low end... So I may try a sound processor or bass restorer