: GM's Bob Lutz Challenges America To Duel, Jalopnik Accepts



abbas
09-12-09, 05:38 PM
http://jalopnik.com/5356691/gms-bob-lutz-challenges-america-to-duel-jalopnik-accepts


GM's Bob "Maximum Marketing" Lutz today challenged any comers in an unmodified production sedan to a duel in a Cadillac CTS-V. We accepted, challenging him to race our own Wes Siler in an AMG C63. Lutz agreed. Two men enter...

The challenge took place earlier today on a conference call about GM's new marketing campaign: "May The Best Car Win." The theme of the campaign is the numerous new vehicles produced by GM that are as good, or better than, the competition. Given the GM products we've driven lately, we're not surprised they'd be pushing this message.

And to prove it, 77-year-old Bob Lutz told reporters he would challenge anyone in any production sedan to a race around Mazda Laguna Seca Raceway and try to beat him.

We're not sure he expected anyone to take him up on the challenge but we couldn't let it stand. We love the CTS-V, but we're at least going to try. So we told him we'd do it if he named the time and the place, and he accepted.

The details have yet to be worked out, but Lutz already told us and the assembled reporters "You're running into a trap because if you beat me by a second on the lap time, we'll just advertise the price difference."

We'll see...

neuronbob
09-12-09, 05:57 PM
LOL! What a great marketing ploy!

I'm waiting for someone to try this with an XF-R. At least that would be a driver's contest as the two are so evenly matched in performance.

cmicasa
09-12-09, 08:31 PM
Cadillac wins this on LOOKS alone.. and to be honest.. Lutz should have demanded that the proper sized vehicle from BENZO be used. The C63 is a size smaller than the CTS-V.. but they are still normally even in performance times

but when Edmunds did this exact challenge.. with an M5 thrown in... they coined this phrase: ""Sport Sedan Standard of the World" now wears a Cadillac wreath and crest."


http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs143.snc1/5293_1137659651053_1514228066_30481921_6672529_n.j pg
http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs236.snc1/8321_1139864586175_1514228066_30486306_6909285_n.j pg
http://images.motortrend.com/reviews/112_0803_05z+2009_cadillac_CTS_V+interior_driver_s ide.jpg

vs

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/photo/2009/05/14/0517-mercedes/28092861.JPG
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/photo/2009/05/14/0517-mercedes/28217379.JPG
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/photo/2009/05/14/0517-mercedes/28092865.JPG

caddiedrummer
09-12-09, 09:41 PM
I recently sat in the passneger seat with Bob driving a ZR1. I would not bet against him.

thebigjimsho
09-13-09, 12:08 AM
LOL! What a great marketing ploy!

I'm waiting for someone to try this with an XF-R. At least that would be a driver's contest as the two are so evenly matched in performance.
The XF-R is quite a hot rod, but with even drivers, it's still decisive in favor of the CTS-V...

SlvrBullIT
09-13-09, 12:40 AM
Reading the jalopnik comments (haters) I hope Lutz punishes him.....

VetteOwner
09-13-09, 04:26 AM
I'm sorry but I just had to go to the "Ten most graphic advertisements" first, don't, so disappointed :helpless: Some nice comments made, especially scenario #3 Just hope Lutz still has the stones.

cad fan
09-13-09, 03:39 PM
Motor Trend Magazine "Best drivers cars" already tested Jag XF-R against CTS-V around Laguna Seca Raceway. Lap times: CTS-V 103.90 XF-R 105.40 The Jag is no competion on a race track!

SlvrBullIT
09-13-09, 10:45 PM
The people on Jalopnik's site commenting on what Lutz says, "You're running into a trap because if you beat me by a second on the lap time, we'll just advertise the price difference." is if a person shows up with a Panamera checked with every option 100K+. Has nothing to do with the C63 but all the posters are flipping him crap about the caveat. I bet Lutz creams the C63 and all the magazine Michael Schumachers will whine and cry. I've only done one HPDE as a novice(green), never raced a road/track and had no problem keeping up with and even passing Carrera S, Exige, Mini, R8. While this may sound somewhat egotistical but with all else being equal, everyone in the green noob catagory, the V is very much a solid performance vehicle, that in capable hands.... will thrash a lot of vehicles. I never really pushed the vehicle like guys do in spec miata's but I was more than capable of closing in on other expensive imports and pass them as a noob. This car is just that good, after a TCU and engine tune, some bolt on mods... I relish going back to see how well it does then.

JEM
09-14-09, 02:47 AM
When you're talking about the current run of production BMWs, Audis, Benzes, Jags, or even something like the Maserati Quattroporte the driver will matter a lot more than the car and I'm fairly confident that Lutz will be good enough to see off Joe Q Public no matter what he's driving, but if a Bill Auberlen or even a decently experienced amateur racer showed up it might be a different story.

I can't speak for the Panamera.

Z06ified
09-22-09, 12:08 PM
I didn't realize Bob was that good of a driver. At 77, I would think he's at a significant disadvantage as a driver against a younger professional driver.

Cadillac Tony
09-22-09, 12:55 PM
He flies fighter jets as a hobby- I think his reflexes are still pretty sharp. :)

neuronbob
09-22-09, 01:06 PM
^^^^
....not to mention, continued practice in racing cars probably keeps those reflexes sharp. I'd love to take a ride with him. Hell, I'd love to race him, it'd be an honor to lose to the guy.

Jeffrey
09-22-09, 02:00 PM
I didn't realize Bob was that good of a driver. At 77, I would think he's at a significant disadvantage as a driver against a younger professional driver.

Hi,

I was thinking the same thing. Reaction times have to be significantly slower for a 77 year old.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

caddiedrummer
09-22-09, 02:13 PM
As previously mentioned, I have been in cars with him when he was driving like a bat out of hell and I have been with him in his helicoptor--both in the last few months. (I bought one of his cars from his collection)

He is 77 going on 40. Looks in person to be maybe mid 50s. Don't bet against him.

Jeffrey
09-22-09, 02:28 PM
As previously mentioned, I have been in cars with him when he was driving like a bat out of hell and I have been with him in his helicoptor--both in the last few months. (I bought one of his cars from his collection)

He is 77 going on 40. Looks in person to be maybe mid 50s. Don't bet against him.

Hi,

Very interesting... thanks for an insider review.

If you don't mind me asking... what car did you buy from him?

Best regards,
Jeffrey

caddiedrummer
09-22-09, 02:46 PM
Hi,

Very interesting... thanks for an insider review.

If you don't mind me asking... what car did you buy from him?

Best regards,
Jeffrey

He was the 'father" of the Dodge Viper and President of Chrysler. For 17 years he had VIN 00002--the second Viper ever produced, a 1992 Viper (first year they made just 285).I bought 00002 from him this year.(to go along with my 2 other Vipers)

He is a great guy and we owe him a debt of gratitude because he had a LOT to do with the CTS-V being the world beater it is.

Jeffrey
09-22-09, 03:09 PM
He was the 'father" of the Dodge Viper and President of Chrysler. For 17 years he had VIN 00002--the second Viper ever produced, a 1992 Viper (first year they made just 285).I bought 00002 from him this year.(to go along with my 2 other Vipers)

He is a great guy and we owe him a debt of gratitude because he had a LOT to do with the CTS-V being the world beater it is.

Hi,

WOW, that's an excellent addition to your collection.... congrats! :thumbsup:

Yes, I'm very appreciative of his efforts with the CTS-V and the entire GM Performance Division.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

CIWS
09-22-09, 03:17 PM
Lutz should handle the :v: against the C63 without a big problem.


John Glenn still qualified as an astronaut and went back into orbit/space at 77, and I think Bob Lutz is in better overall shape.

neuronbob
10-14-09, 06:56 PM
IT'S OFFICIAL! You can go to GM's site and apply if you have a competitive stock sedan. They have a site (Monticello). It's apparently part of the "May the Best Car Win" ad campaign.

http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/category/bob_lutz

Info gleaned from GM Inside News....

I hope I can still handle a car even a quarter as well as Maximum Bob can when I'm 78. :thumbsup: He really rocks.

LawDawg
10-14-09, 10:52 PM
Looks like MB already chickened out and pulled the C63. I wonder if Porsche has the cajones to put up a Panamera. That is about the only thing that could really challenge the V.

SlvrBullIT
10-15-09, 02:14 AM
Haha..MB chickened out..... Porsche won't, they believe it's beneath them to even entertain the notion.

Tony407
10-15-09, 03:21 AM
I've only done one HPDE as a novice(green), never raced a road/track and had no problem keeping up with and even passing Carrera S, Exige, Mini, R8.

Sounds like you did a great job! I can see you doing fairly well against all the cars you mention except the R8. If you passed one on a track course, I'm sure it was because the other driver was holding back or didn't know what he was doing. As much as I love the V, the R8 would spank it.

Tony

Aron9000
10-15-09, 05:23 AM
That's pretty damn badass that Bob is driving race cars and flying fighter jets at 77. I didn't know he was that old, I was guessing he was about 60, give or take a couple of years. All of the people over 70 yrs old I've ever met are just glad to have a damn pulse:canttalk:

SlvrBullIT
10-15-09, 06:24 AM
Sounds like you did a great job! I can see you doing fairly well against all the cars you mention except the R8. If you passed one on a track course, I'm sure it was because the other driver was holding back or didn't know what he was doing. As much as I love the V, the R8 would spank it.

Tony

He was limp coming out of the corners, he could take the corners easy but had no push out of them. True, in the hands of a decent driver the R8 would take a V. I had more consistent late apex lines that WOT would just rocket me out while any bad entries by the R8 made it very hard for him to push through the turn. The HPDE instructor I had drives a Z06 and showed me the lines I should take, he was very good and thorough enough to show me how to lengthen the straights to take advantage of the torque the motor over the R8. Maybe I just got used to the V before he got used to his R8, both are spectacular cars, the R8 owner already wants the V-10 version. If that happens I'll get a ZR-1 and chase him around the track. :yup:

commander112
10-15-09, 07:50 AM
Local TV news here in Detroit featured a story on this and said that they were going to use a XFR against the V.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21296668/detail.html

Z06ified
10-15-09, 11:57 AM
Sounds like you did a great job! I can see you doing fairly well against all the cars you mention except the R8. If you passed one on a track course, I'm sure it was because the other driver was holding back or didn't know what he was doing. As much as I love the V, the R8 would spank it.

Tony

Overall, I agree. However, it would take a good driver to exploit the handling advantage the R8 has over the V. While the R8 clearly handles better, the V is faster in a straight line, and will pull much harder in the triple digits. Braking in both cars is comparable too. So if the R8 driver isn't making up ground in the turns, he'll get passed by a V on most high speed road courses. A tighter, slower track would be different story.

neuronbob
10-15-09, 01:48 PM
Local TV news here in Detroit featured a story on this and said that they were going to use a XFR against the V.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21296668/detail.html

That's DEFINITELY is going to be a driver's race as the XF-R and V are pretty evenly matched performancewise.

Vrocks
10-15-09, 02:13 PM
That's DEFINITELY is going to be a driver's race as the XF-R and V are pretty evenly matched performancewise.

In the MotorTrend comparison, Randy Pobst was 1.5 seconds faster per lap in the V compared to the XFR. They said the JAG isn't as stable when pushed to the limit, so the driver will need to be much better than Lutz to win.

caddiedrummer
10-15-09, 02:28 PM
In the MotorTrend comparison, Randy Pobst was 1.5 seconds faster per lap in the V compared to the XFR. They said the JAG isn't as stable when pushed to the limit, so the driver will need to be much better than Lutz to win.

Agree. Unless spmeone fiddles with the Jag it ain't a fair fight.

Tony407
10-15-09, 02:38 PM
In the MotorTrend comparison, Randy Pobst was 1.5 seconds faster per lap in the V compared to the XFR. They said the JAG isn't as stable when pushed to the limit, so the driver will need to be much better than Lutz to win.

Agreed. Pobst said something to the effect that the Jag "isn't ready for prime time."

Tony

Z06ified
10-15-09, 02:44 PM
That's DEFINITELY is going to be a driver's race as the XF-R and V are pretty evenly matched performancewise.

Every published comparison I've read with these two cars, the V has won.

Another key issue in the V's favor: I've driven Monticello before: it's an awesome, long (21 turns I think, 4.1 miles), and challenging track. The club has a fleet of 6 CTS-V's that its members use, train, and lend to private renters on the track. Lutz has driven it many times before. The rule is, challengers are limited to 5 laps. If the challenging driver hasn't driven this track before, they're gonna get creamed unless they're a professional driver. Because 5 laps isn't nearly enough to truly learn the track and all of it's tricks. The owner of the Monticello Motor Club said on a FOX TV interview that he's hit 165 mph on the back straight in a CTS-V. Let me tell you: that is freakin HAULING on that track. :yup:

neuronbob
10-15-09, 03:30 PM
In the MotorTrend comparison, Randy Pobst was 1.5 seconds faster per lap in the V compared to the XFR. They said the JAG isn't as stable when pushed to the limit, so the driver will need to be much better than Lutz to win.

Touche. 1.5 seconds/lap=eternity in racing. :thumbsup:

Jpjr
10-15-09, 04:41 PM
If I was Lutz I would show up with the V2 and the Stig.

There is no sense in making a car comparison a drivers race. I'm sure he's good but the car is better.

thebigjimsho
10-15-09, 06:34 PM
Every published comparison I've read with these two cars, the V has won.

Another key issue in the V's favor: I've driven Monticello before: it's an awesome, long (21 turns I think, 4.1 miles), and challenging track. The club has a fleet of 6 CTS-V's that its members use, train, and lend to private renters on the track. Lutz has driven it many times before. The rule is, challengers are limited to 5 laps. If the challenging driver hasn't driven this track before, they're gonna get creamed unless they're a professional driver. Because 5 laps isn't nearly enough to truly learn the track and all of it's tricks. The owner of the Monticello Motor Club said on a FOX TV interview that he's hit 165 mph on the back straight in a CTS-V. Let me tell you: that is freakin HAULING on that track. :yup:
At the Cadillac Driving Lab event, we used 3 portions of the track at once and the '09V could hit 130mph using only half of the long backstraight...

neuronbob
10-23-09, 01:13 PM
List of Bob's challengers. It includes a CTS-V owner. If I'd known that the V was eligible for the challenge, I would have applied! I'd have been happy to drive my V to NYC to get a crack at Monticello.

http://cadillac.gmblogs.com/2009/10/23/meet-the-v-series-challengers-–-preliminary-list/

Where's the XF-R? THAT's a challenge I wanted to see.

1-2-N-V
10-23-09, 01:23 PM
So we can go to watch? Cause i put my name in there with my car but i am not on that list. I did say that would like to spectate if i could not race. Drove it before myself, great track!

todd03blown
10-23-09, 01:48 PM
cool stuff!!

caddiedrummer
10-23-09, 02:22 PM
I have it from a very reliable "source" that Bob has some seat time there and I think will do quite well.

I had the current M5 and gave a unsolicited few tips how that might be beat. The M3 should stay home.

cjwolverine
10-23-09, 02:38 PM
List of Bob's challengers. It includes a CTS-V owner. If I'd known that the V was eligible for the challenge, I would have applied! I'd have been happy to drive my V to NYC to get a crack at Monticello.

http://cadillac.gmblogs.com/2009/10/23/meet-the-v-series-challengers--preliminary-list/

Where's the XF-R? THAT's a challenge I wanted to see.



I happen to be the lucky owner. I didn't realize I was eligible either. A buddy of mine always sends me links when the V is in the news. I wrote a quick note on the challenge site that I love my car and would love to see it on the track against the world.

To my surprise they called me and asked if I could be there next week. I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas now. Do any of you have any tips for me? I've looked at the "track days" thread, but what are some "little things" that a newbie like me might forget? I want to get the maximum experience since I probably won't be able to do something this fun for a long time.

Thanks

Chris

Jayrcr3
10-23-09, 05:51 PM
Do any of you have any tips for me?

Thanks

Chris

Be careful with your new car on a race track, and have fun.

Tony407
10-24-09, 03:34 AM
Do any of you have any tips for me? I've looked at the "track days" thread, but what are some "little things" that a newbie like me might forget? I want to get the maximum experience since I probably won't be able to do something this fun for a long time.

Thanks

Chris

Find as many in-car videos of the track as you can and watch them as many times as you can. I doubt there's any video games out there of Monticello, but if you can find one I'd play it until your fingers bled. The more familiar you can get with the track before you get there the better you will do.

Tony