: Exhaust "Flowmaster" Advice Please!



Barry626
09-11-09, 05:53 PM
I have a 09 CTS-V.
I like the sound but feel it's little to quiet.
By no means do I want a loud car just little more throaty?

I rcently test drove a SS Camaro & by no means do i feel the sound is...
better then our "CTS-V" but when letting off the gas there is a popping sound I LOVE!

I went to "Midas" today & explained I want a little more sound "Throaty" with my car.
Told "Midas" I don't want any loud sound in the cabin, etc.
His advice & feels I would be real happy with 2 "Flowmaster" mufflers, 50 series.
They are $146.63 each & $252.00 for 1 1/2 hrs labor on each side.
He says he wants to weld everything back in place including using my original tips.

Total for complete job with tax is $588.88 might be less if it takes less then 3 hrs.?

What's your thoughts & is price fair?
Would I have any issues with my 4 year/50,000 mile warranty?

aco
09-11-09, 05:57 PM
I don't have an answer for you, but I'm surprised you brought your V to Midas for exhaust consultation and work.

aco
09-11-09, 05:58 PM
On the other hand, that is a heck of lot cheaper than Corsas, sans installation.

Barry626
09-11-09, 06:19 PM
On the other hand, that is a heck of lot cheaper than Corsas, sans installation.

I know, very reason I thought I would stop by & ask.
I'm just afraid of the old saying "You get what u pay for".

09BlackV
09-11-09, 06:31 PM
Might end up sounding like a rice popper, go with the Corsa Sports Mufflers from D3, that's what I have my eyes on.

Fubar75207
09-11-09, 07:01 PM
My experience with flowmaster is that it creates a deeper (old american muscle) sound but with that comes more cabin noise. The lower harmonic just resonates through the frame more. The popping gurgle sound is unspent fuel in the exhaust system. You would be more likely amplify that by deleting the cats or adding fuel to the decel programing.

nradcad
09-11-09, 07:26 PM
unspent fuel in the exhaust? Do they tune the Vs to run rich? I've heard being on the lean side can lead to over heating issues.

Gary Wells
09-11-09, 09:07 PM
Oh, Good Lord, a V, at Midas, getting a quote on Flowmasters. Hopefully you do not have a Tune Up Masters in your area. J/K, but no, you shouldn't. Please!

nynd
09-11-09, 09:49 PM
Maybe try a local exhaust shop, I mean they might even give you a better price. Midas is a "jack of all" however, sawing off the existing and welding on two new mufflers at the rear of the car isn't exactly rocket science. One thing that would be nice is to hear a set prior to installing them. Interior drone is usually the biggest complaint followed by "it doesn't sounds like I want it to sound".

MSJ
09-11-09, 10:56 PM
Flowmasters sound great and you hear them often on mustangs and fbody'd and lots of pickups. The 50's aren't as aggressive as the 40's, but they still drone inside the cabin a bit. They are designed to be a reduced cabin noise muffler, but it's all subjective. Try 'em out and let us know how they are. This might be a less expensive option and worth it if they have eliminated interior cabin resonance at 2k rpms :)

Corsa has a patent on RSC (reflective sound cancellation) and probably has the least interior drone of axle/catbacks that I have heard. They probably have the best fit and finish and the nicest exhaust tips, which I think matches the look of the V.

I myself am a B&B fan. Deeper sound than the Corsa. I spoke to them the other day and they have a new set up for our V's that is sportier than their touring system, but less aggressive than their PRT's or bullits. As it was explained to me, the normal driving rpm of the auto V puts you in the higher spectrum of exhaust drone, so they developed a new can to compensate.

Whichever you go with I wish you luck and let us know how it turns out :)

-mike

musclesbmf
09-13-09, 10:06 AM
The price is horrible... gon onto summit.com and get your mufflers, and they are charging you a $100.00 per hour to cut out mufflers and weld new in? Horrible. I have W4M 3" exhaust and I had magnaflow performace pound mufflers welded in. Great sound. So, I would recommend a different installer, and the magnaflow mufflers. Although Jesse (W4M), recommends the borla round mufflers. Basically the same but mags are cheaper.

My $.02,
Mark

09BlackV
09-13-09, 10:35 AM
MSJ, I'd love to hear and see the B&B sport muffelrs when you put them on, are they anywhere online I could check out? Thanks, E

Fubar75207
09-13-09, 11:24 AM
unspent fuel in the exhaust? Do they tune the Vs to run rich? I've heard being on the lean side can lead to over heating issues.

Here is a decent article on air/fuel ratio tuning.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0402_innovate_air_fuel_ratio_meter/index.html

Keep in mind that a forced induction motor needs to run richer than 12.5 I would target 11.5 if I were tuning my car (but this is something each tuner has a different philosophy on). There are other factors when tuning a car like timing and intake temps but that discussion belongs in another thread.

I think GM had a target mark of 10.2 for our Vs so the answer to your question is: Yes, the Vs run rich. This is consider a safe tune because it keeps the combustion chamber temp lower than a lean tune. It also means quite a bit of unspent fuel ends up in the exhaust. You can add fuel to the programing for decel (when you lift out of the throttle) and that should give you even more "gurgle" in the exhaust note.

Good Luck

neuronbob
09-13-09, 02:32 PM
^^^^
I ran an AF ratio on my stock (other than Corsas) V when it was dyno'ed last week. The leanest was 11.4 and it was quite consistent across the power band. I didn't think that was too bad at all.

Thanks for the link to the article, that was very instructive. :thumbsup:

Gary, good luck with your install. It wouldn't have occurred to me to take my V to Midas.

Gary Wells
09-13-09, 03:41 PM
^^^^
I ran an AF ratio on my stock (other than Corsas) V when it was dyno'ed last week. The leanest was 11.4 and it was quite consistent across the power band. I didn't think that was too bad at all.

Thanks for the link to the article, that was very instructive. :thumbsup:

Gary, good luck with your install. It wouldn't have occurred to me to take my V to Midas.

I think that is "Barry" as in "Barry626" that is planning on going to Midas.
If "Gary" as in "Gary Wells" is afraid of dealers you know darn well that he's really afraid of places like Midas. As much as it's only money, and I can't afford it, I'm thinking of the Corsa Axle-back due to 1) Their reputable quality as reported on this forum and the corvetteforum, 2) the quality of their product, 3) their reported & verified RWHP & RWTQ increase. My apologies for any thread disruption and / or derailment. Not my intent.

neuronbob
09-13-09, 04:05 PM
^^^^

Oops, I made a typo! Sorry, Barry and Gary.

Gary Wells
09-13-09, 04:40 PM
^^^^

Oops, I made a typo! Sorry, Barry and Gary.
Not a problem, I thought that you were just checking to see if I was paying attention. After buying the CTS-V, attention is about all that I can afford to pay.

Nutz
09-13-09, 09:06 PM
Original Poster:
My $.02

Flowmasters and MANY other manufacturers have a CHAMBERED design which traps sound that is famous for cabin drone. Corsa and Magnaflow are straight through designs that allow the sound to escape clean without creating cabin drone.

That being said...
MY OPINION IS that the chambered sound is fantastic but has drone drawbacks. Now first of all the 50 series are sized and most appropriate for under the floorpan, if you are going to put Flowmasters on your car buy the Super 44 Series (mostly designed for i.r.s. suspension cars with limited area within the rear trunk pan area behind the axle) with a more aggressive sound too. I suspect that you will be pleased with the sound cause I was one of the few that did it on my 05 V, and the 09 is believed to be more squelched in resonator design. The drone you will be left with SHOULD be small and only present and select RPM's.
PLEASE post a sound clip if you do Flowmasters, perhaps the first here.
My 05 with Super 44's:
dFr0lU3-wvQ








OR

Get the Magnaflows, Corsa, or B&B too, and have absolute top quality that will last, with zero drone, and maybe have a bit of a higher pitched idle.

Barry626
09-13-09, 10:22 PM
I think that is "Barry" as in "Barry626" that is planning on going to Midas.
If "Gary" as in "Gary Wells" is afraid of dealers you know darn well that he's really afraid of places like Midas.
:histeric:

MSJ
09-14-09, 01:40 AM
MSJ, I'd love to hear and see the B&B sport muffelrs when you put them on, are they anywhere online I could check out? Thanks, E

Hey E, I didn't know if you saw, but I replied to the end of your corsa thread with a couple of clips of b&b bullits on my c6 vette that sound just like the b&b triflows I had on my v1. alas, I couldn't wait and went to a buddy of mine and had a 3" mandrel bent exhaust put on from the header back. there were soooo many restrictions in the stock exhaust. I went with an unchambered can that my buddy had in stock. they sound great, but they are not loud enough for me - i am unlike most people...lol

I spoke to mike boat (billy's brother) the other day and he gave me the part number of their new V2 exhaust. I'm going to try and get them to send me the triflow cans off a v1 setup as that is the sound i prefer. where in AZ are you? b&b is in phoenix.

/mike

GPat599
09-14-09, 02:04 AM
Go with W4M 3'' exhaust. I did, and I love it, it has made this car twice as fun to drive.

Tony407
09-14-09, 04:19 PM
I have Flowmaster 44s on my V. The price for the mufflers, tips and labor was only $390.

First of all, the drone inside the cabin was AWFUL. If you were going uphill it was worse than awful, and if you had the windows down while going uphill it was abysmal.

Having said that, I have since added a subwoofer in the trunk and ended up adding a ton of soundproofing and damping material and the drone is barely existent unless the windows are down and then it's bothersome but not intolerable. We're talking the entire back seat area, trunk, and rear parcel shelf in foil-back damping mats and thick closed-cell mats. Not recommended for the common do it yourself-er.

I don't have a video posted yet but I will. The idle is deep, there's a little burble but not a lot (might not be enough if that's your main goal,) but the full throttle acceleration, rev while stopped, and deceleration is AWESOME. I'm not too sure how happy I would have been with these had I not used so much soundproofing. Having said that, as I now have it, I couldn't be happier!!!

I don't think you can go wrong with the Corsas, but for less than $400 I'm completely satisfied.

Tony

09BlackV
09-15-09, 10:40 AM
MSJ, I'm in Mesa, AZ. Can B&B do the COrsa setup for me? Any idea on price?

Jpjr
09-15-09, 05:07 PM
Wait for Borlas if they are not out already. If nothing else because thier T-304 stainless will never rust and the sound is incredibly consistent across thier product line.

neuronbob
09-15-09, 06:59 PM
dFr0lU3-wvQ

Oh yeah! That sounds great. :thumbsup:

Jayrcr3
09-15-09, 07:38 PM
Does the car in the video still have the resonator in it? I just recently removed my exhaust and gutted the stock mufflers with the help of a friend that can weld. I didn't get the sound I was looking for. Basically It just sounds deeper. I want the rumble of the FM's, but I don't want it to be terrible to ride in. I had a 97 TA with FM's on it and I thought it was great. Do you guys think the LS6 will be any louder than the LT1?

Tony407
09-15-09, 08:24 PM
Here you go. I just started a new thread with info on the 44s.

Tony


http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/180142-flowmaster-44s-installed.html#post2005377

MSJ
09-16-09, 01:28 AM
MSJ, I'm in Mesa, AZ. Can B&B do the COrsa setup for me? Any idea on price?

Hi E, I don't think they would do a corsa for you ;) b&b is a manufacturer of exhaust systems just like corsa. it would be like a cadillac dealer selling new mercedes :) Looks like they are about half an hour from you. I just installed a 3" mandrel bent exhaust from the headers back with a non chambered exhaust - all for $800. I'll try and get some video soon, but I think I'm going to get some b&b can's as it wasn't loud enough for me since I'm used to long tube headers and b&b bullet exhaust on my 08 vette.

1-2-N-V
09-16-09, 08:14 AM
OK who is B&B? Does some one have compile list of MFRs that are now producing mufflers and systems for our cars. I know of Corsa and American racing. I think Kooks headers are one. i see now that Flow master is in the mix but where they just scabbed on or where they a true bolt in set up? Anyone can add to this?

badblkcts
09-17-09, 08:45 AM
has anyone ever looked into Aero Turbine Mufflers? They are straight through, barrel looking, stainless mufflers.

I had Flowmaster 40 series on my 04 Dodge Hemi with Pacesetter Longtube headers, Magnaflow High Flow Cats and Magnaflow Xpipe into two Flowmasters. It sounded deep and good. I was bored with the sound and decided to try the Aero Turbine's. Much different and sounded a milion times better. The sounded was deeper and more pure. It sounded so clean. Granted it was loud, just like the Flowmasters, but I did notice a significant difference with just changing out the mufflers in performance. I did not get a dyno before and after, but there was a clear difference.

Not knowing how this will be on the 09 CTS V, if you are looking into just changing mufflers, I would suggest try Aero Turbine's mufflers. They are around the same price as the Flowmaster and smaller (cylinder compared to box). Just an idea!

1-2-N-V
09-17-09, 08:49 AM
gotta link?

badblkcts
09-17-09, 09:06 PM
http://www.aeroexhaust.com/

i had the 3030 on my truck. i will try to dig up a movie clip, but can't promise anything if i can find it. havent had the truck in some time.

cadi-v2
09-18-09, 07:00 PM
new at posting here but i would say the 44 series would sound the best for flowmasters.. that or do a custom SLP loudmouth set-up but i think that would be way too loud for you but would make an awesome sound. but with all this said everyone likes different things and to me i dont care for the corsa set up. but whatever you do, it would be hard to make the LSA sound bad :)