: Another visit to the track



codewize
09-11-09, 12:52 AM
Did some more trial and error testing. I only got to make 2 passes because it was super busy. Both runs are with the stock PCM

First Run: Launched at about 2300 RPM, torque management defeat on, TC on. (I know this is bad but I forgot) AC on :(
15.36 ET

Second Run: Launched at 1600 RPM, torque management defeat on, TC on, AC off.
15.44 ET

Just thought I'd let you all know.

Submariner409
09-11-09, 09:09 AM
Don't quote me, but as that gas pedal/TPS passes 80% (?), the A/C shuts down for the entire WOT run - then comes back on when engine rpm drops.

Ranger
09-11-09, 11:55 AM
Yup. WOT disengages the A/C compressor. I don't recall the TPS percentages.

codewize
09-11-09, 10:14 PM
I thought that too but I wasn't sure.

elcaminokid
09-11-09, 11:36 PM
cool good to know what i can compare to thanks man. 15s is not bad at all. considering. i would like to see the mythical 14s that car and driver claims though

do you know the 60 foot and the 1/8 mile? my 1/8 was a 10.1

codewize
09-11-09, 11:43 PM
60' was 2.3
1/8 mile 10.002


cool good to know what i can compare to thanks man. 15s is not bad at all. considering. i would like to see the mythical 14s that car and driver claims though

do you know the 60 foot and the 1/8 mile? my 1/8 was a 10.1

elcaminokid
09-16-09, 01:29 AM
cool I figure thats about where i would be if i didnt have a passenger with me. interesting. i think my 60 was a 2.4

mighty_quad4
09-16-09, 09:24 AM
60' was 2.3
1/8 mile 10.002

14s is possible. i was getting consistent 9.90 1/8ths out of my 2000.

id really wish it was possible to entirely defeat the traction control on launch. i know this boat is capable of a 2.0 60ft time and 9.50s. thatd be mid 14s in the qtr.

codewize
09-16-09, 11:45 AM
It is, I do. I think wheel spin is costing me at least a 1/10th


id really wish it was possible to entirely defeat the traction control on launch.

97EldoCoupe
09-18-09, 03:21 AM
Code - what was your MPH in those runs? I'm curious...

codewize
09-18-09, 03:30 PM
All my runs so far have shown 90.xx MPH at the 1/4 mile trap

cadillac_al
09-18-09, 07:15 PM
Big Brother is holding your car back. My '70 Impala with bone stock 180 hp 350 goes through the 1/8th in 10.5 sec. That is considered kinda slow. There are no Mustangs going that slow. I saw an Eldo there last week going 10,0 in the 1/8th and I thought he must be babying it. Something doesn't add up. Cars get more powerful through the years but ET's stay the same.

97EldoCoupe
09-19-09, 12:36 AM
You're not doing bad at all Codewize. Torque management defeat? Please explain that one, I'm lost....

A 4 door 4000 lb. car pulling those times with a 279 c.i. V8.....

Gotta love Cadillacs.

codewize
09-19-09, 01:54 AM
I'm not sure I'm at liberty to answer the question. Try PMing AJ and see what he has to say but trust me, it works.


You're not doing bad at all Codewize. Torque management defeat? Please explain that one, I'm lost....

A 4 door 4000 lb. car pulling those times with a 279 c.i. V8.....

Gotta love Cadillacs.

AJxtcman
09-19-09, 11:56 AM
Codewize and I have argued about the effects of Brake Torque Management (BTM). It is part of all GM calibrations.

As I have stated on Highlines DHS with Corsa Exh you can hear the cylinders shutting off when you are on the brake and the gas. Example: If you were to check the stall speed of the converter.

I am driving Highline's 01 Vette and did some tuning. It had a DiabloSport tune in it. On Wednesday after work we met of for a run. The Vette has 2.73 gears in it and the Mustang has 4.56. We lined up and I started to come up on the brake when Highline jumped me. I let off the brake and nailed the gas and the car noise dived. :rant2:

I started to think about it and it must have been the BTM.
I went into the Platform Matrix and shut it off, but that really isn't the way to do it. That really only shows the Options, so I needed to shut it down.
My VDF didn't have the parameters, so I added them in to the VDF with my VDF editor.
I set the BTM enable RPM to 6700. The engine now need to be at 6700 before the BTM will be allow to Enable.

On a Vette you have an additional device to control Torque.
#1 Retard Timing
#2 Limit the Throttle. This has an Electronic Throttle Control (ETC)
#4 Shut off up to 4 cylinders.

Now you can't hold the rear tires from spinning at 2000 RPM's at all with the brake
Oh and no bog either when you release the brake

I don't care what Code says if you leave on the brake (over 1600) you leave on 4 cylinders and retared timing.

97EldoCoupe
09-19-09, 12:14 PM
I tried holding the brake and gas to approx. 1700 RPMs yesterday and all that happened was my tires lit up when I let off the brake and mashed the gas to the floor, and I lost time because of the wheel spin.

97EldoCoupe
09-19-09, 12:15 PM
I tried the same thing on the street before I went to the track and the wheels hopped a bit (spun, grabbed, spun from R to L) and then the traction control kicked in- then the torque management came on and I'm sure I lost some cylinders at that point.

codewize
09-19-09, 04:19 PM
Even with the button? I don't have the means to prove or disprove either way but what I do know from experience is
The car never sounds like it bogs.
The car smokes the tires off the lights.
The best times have been run leaving at higher RPMS than lower
The best times have been run while foot braking the car vs. not.

I was also told that my car does not have PAS and I assure you it does with the stock PCM in it.

AJ, I'm not arguing with you I'm just stating my experiences after significant trial and error. The same as I've always done. I call it like i see it. I tell you what I tried and what the result was. I'm not here to candy coat anything.

Ironically that night one of my friends was in the stands unknowing to me. The next day he was ranting and raving about how awesome I launch the car. He said I got the hole shot every time and the car looked great coming off the line. That doesn't sound like bog to me. He also took some video with his phone.

Submariner409
09-19-09, 06:01 PM
code, Back to Post 1, Square 1. Which car are we running here ??

Isn't there a difference in Torque Management and Traction Control between the 2000+ Northstar packages and earlier ??

Jake, A year or two back there was a long-running thread concerning Northstars, PCM's, EBCM's, torque controls, and wheel speeds. On some models you can "fool" the torque controls by using a simple button/diode circuit to jump around the brake switch/EBCM circuits to drop the signals which enable torque control. It takes a bit of circuit diagram snooping and tracing of signals. Another sneaky way of fooling wheel speed is to go to a junkyard and get as many front and rear wheel speed sensor connectors as you can get your hands on, both male and female pigtails and parts. Now, with the car up in the air and the wheels off, trace out the front and rear wheel speed sensor wiring. We are now going to fool the PCM into thinking that the front wheels are going the exact same speed as the rears, so: no torque control ! Disconnect the front wheel speed sensors at the pigtail, not the sensor. Make up a wiring harness with a connector which will run from the pigtail connector back to the rear wheel sensors. Splice the new front wheel wires to the proper pigtail on each rear wheel. Now, the rear wheels send the same speed signal to both front and rear pins on the PCM. Front wheelspin ? Not a problem because the PCM never sees it. More elegant: More wiring, but include a pair of 4PDT switches at the console to allow either normal or defeat operation.

codewize
09-19-09, 06:10 PM
We're talking about the 01 DTS which has Torque management and TC. I also have the torque management defeat from AJ which uses the break signals as you mention above..

97EldoCoupe
09-20-09, 04:18 PM
Sub, I never read that thread. But that makes perfect sense.

AJxtcman
09-23-09, 10:10 PM
I tried holding the brake and gas to approx. 1700 RPMs yesterday and all that happened was my tires lit up when I let off the brake and mashed the gas to the floor, and I lost time because of the wheel spin.

Sorry I forgot to subscribe to this.

Anyway 2000 + are different.

AJxtcman
09-23-09, 10:18 PM
Brake Torque Abuse Modes


Brake Torque Limit: Maximum torque during braking, to ensure the vehicle brakes can always stop the vehicle. Driveline Efficiency: Efficiency of transmission and axle gear multiplication for torque transfer.
TCS Failed Torque allowed Factor: Scale factor applied to the Engine Torque Allowed parameter when traction control is known to be inactive.
Brake Torque Mode RPM Over Speed Enable Lo: RPM set to maintain BTM
Brake Torque Mode RPM Over Speed Enable HI: Enabling RPM
BTM Torque Hysteresis: Hysteresis on the torque limit applied to prevent cycling in and out of limiting.
Loops Between Ramps Steps: Number of loops to wait between increases in the ramp out.
Torque Allow Offset: Torque offset below the maximum that will set the control target.
Torque Ramp: Step size of torque when ramping out of brake torque management.
BTM Throttle Open: TPS % that BTM Enables
BTM Throttle Closed: TPS % That BTM Returns to Normal
Effective Gear Ratio: Gear Ratio Set

AJxtcman
09-23-09, 10:25 PM
Please take a look at this software and download the free DEMO!

EFILive V7.5.5 (http://download.efilive.com/Software/V7.5/EFILiveV7.5.5.88_Setup.exe)

I will link some tunes over here ASAP

AJxtcman
09-23-09, 10:58 PM
Save these to your desktop and then open them in EFILive.
Compare these tunes

BTM is under Engine Calibration > Torque Limiting > Parameters > {B0401}

as you can see I changed it and it made a huge difference.

2001 a4 stock.bin (http://www.monodax.com/forums/attachments/tunercat-files/1160d1253757021-01-vette-2001-a4-stock.bin)

DiabloSport Stage 3 .bin (http://www.monodax.com/forums/attachments/tunercat-files/1161d1253757021-01-vette-diablosport-stage-3-.bin)

Bert's Sister #2.5.bin (http://www.monodax.com/forums/attachments/tunercat-files/1162d1253757021-01-vette-berts-sister-2.5.bin)

AJxtcman
09-23-09, 11:01 PM
Oh BTW Hog that is not in your VDF:histeric:

97EldoCoupe
09-23-09, 11:47 PM
Can't download those .bin files, asks for username/pass

codewize
09-23-09, 11:54 PM
AJ; did you get my PM?

AJxtcman
09-24-09, 07:56 AM
I emailed them out to a few

I got an email a while back Code. It was about a new tune. I am working on some thing for you.