: Nitrous Help: 01 DTS



GLaPak
09-04-09, 10:35 PM
I want to do a dry shot nitrous kit in my 2001 dts. I need to know how to adjust fuel, timing and ignition for the nitrous.

Garrett

Submariner409
09-05-09, 10:54 AM
You cannot adjust fuel, timing, and/or ignition in a FWD DTS. There are no chips, mods, flashes, or aftermarket parts available. Install a CORSA cat-back system. That's about it. No CAI (they don't work........).

As far as NOx, you'll quickly join the Northstar Head Gasket Club.

Spend the day reading the Cadillac Technical Archive up in the black bar ^^^ and as much of Northstar performance as you can wade through. It's all in here somewhere.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but please do a lot of homework in here before throwing parts and money into your (already tricked out) DTS.

Warmarshall2nd
09-05-09, 11:28 AM
Another guy that is like how I was at one point! Listen to Submariner- he knows what he's talking about.

I'm sure there's a way you can do it. There's a way to do just about anything. The thing here is, you're going to spend a LOT of money on rebuilding the engine.

But my question is... Why to a Deville?? I mean, I can understand wanting to do it on the Seville or the Eldorado, but why to the Deville?

elcaminokid
09-06-09, 05:53 AM
I want to hit some nitrous on my motor too, maybe a bigger shot though. I dont care about headgaskets they are prolly already gone. But what kind of times to people run with an X shot of nitrous.
Anyone?

Warmarshall2nd
09-06-09, 02:34 PM
You don't care about the headgaskets on your car? Is it just me or are people getting dumber?

Dude, if your headgaskets go out, you're car is shot. Done. Expensive to fix. Basically, you'll have an expensive lawn ornament. Are you saying you don't care about wrecking a nice car?

Tell you what, if you don't care about the headgaskets on your car, trade your ETC in for a Civic.

You can't do it without dropping a LOT of money. Even then, we don't know for sure. No one has done this with our cars, successfully in any significance.

Sorry, but that was one of the most ridiculous posts I've seen.

Before you do stuff, read the forums!

Submariner409
09-06-09, 06:56 PM
He has another post/thread on the same subject. The car is a $200 beater and he doesn't care if it blows up or not.

There is actually quite a bit to be done on a FWD Northstar platform in the way of mild DIY mods and driveability enhancements - just don't ever expect to come even remotely close to joining the AA Fuel Rail boys................

Uncontrolled nitrous will look neat when the engine disappears in a cloud of steam and smoke - you'll get a Car Craft sticker for that experience.

Warmarshall2nd
09-06-09, 07:50 PM
In that case, I retract my statements about ruining your car.

On the other hand, if it's a $200 beater, wouldn't a lot of work need to be done to prep the thing to even run, let alone run at all with Nitrous? What's the point?

Submariner409
09-06-09, 09:24 PM
:rolleyes: Why use logic ?

...........sort of like my old Kent Island High School story (newspaper article and stains on the road): Good ol' kid with Toyota wants to go fast at the 3:30 school closing. Buys a big NOx bottle and some nylon tube. Drills a hole in the intake plastic duct and sticks the NOx pipe in. "OK, Mary (with the bottle between her legs), when I punch it, you open the valve!"

The rubber, oil, and engine parts are still part of Old Love Point Road. Three years ago. Quite a signature.

Destroyer
09-06-09, 10:22 PM
Tell you what, if you don't care about the headgaskets on your car, trade your ETC in for a Civic.
Are Civic's known for blowing head gaskets and being complete piles of crap too?:hmm:

Superjim
09-07-09, 12:38 PM
Are Civic's known for blowing head gaskets and being complete piles of crap too?:hmm:


I don't know about the head gaskets on Civics...and don't really care...but compared to my Cadillac..."YES", they are COMPLETE PILES OF CRAP.

Texas Jim

Submariner409
09-07-09, 01:26 PM
Ol' Destroyer had a bad experience with a Northstar and can't get over it, so he trolls in once in a while to remind everyone.

Superjim
09-07-09, 01:34 PM
Ol' Destroyer had a bad experience with a Northstar and can't get over it, so he trolls in once in a while to remind everyone.


Understand...Thanks.

Jim

SupRNatural
09-07-09, 02:25 PM
Being bottle fed :drink2:Without a timing reduction, and cooler plugs when No2 is injected will melt down the pistons,valves in a millisecond. aka poof:nox::bighead: believe me i've witnessed it many times.:)

osu411yamaha
09-07-09, 03:52 PM
I want to do a dry shot nitrous kit in my 2001 dts. I need to know how to adjust fuel, timing and ignition for the nitrous.

Garrett

Anythings possible. If you only have $200 in the car go for it man. If theres a will theres a way. You will have trouble tuning that PCM and there is a lot of reference in the old threads on this forum that can give you reference to that. It seems people on here have been unable to do it thus far, but it doesn't mean its impossible. Im almost wondering if theres another route as far as the PCM goes.

Why not develop another module to piggyback to the PCM that will be sort of a middle man to the injectors and sensors. It would pick up the signals from the PCM, correct them, and send them to everything......

elcaminokid
09-07-09, 06:49 PM
Zex kits have a fuel selonoid with them and you can pick them up pretty cheap and they are reusable with other vehicles so i wouldnt consider it an investment into the 200 dollar piece. I wouldnt destroy the car if it didnt already have a Certificate of destruction. it can never again be legally registered. so I am putting it out of its misery the best way possible, going fast. If anyone needs any parts interior or etc i might have some.

My car runs awesome.. just overheats after about two passes.

32vmonte
09-07-09, 09:55 PM
Anythings possible. If you only have $200 in the car go for it man. If theres a will theres a way. You will have trouble tuning that PCM and there is a lot of reference in the old threads on this forum that can give you reference to that. It seems people on here have been unable to do it thus far, but it doesn't mean its impossible. Im almost wondering if theres another route as far as the PCM goes.

Why not develop another module to piggyback to the PCM that will be sort of a middle man to the injectors and sensors. It would pick up the signals from the PCM, correct them, and send them to everything......

A piggyback is the best bet. That's what myn has and it does the trick. It is able to fully control timing and fuel which is mostly all you need. The one that was put on my car was a SMT6 perfect power piggy back, it would run you some money but is worth it I'm sure.



Note* The cadi computer is in a monte but is otherwise untouched besides the piggyback. It would work identically on a cadi.

CadillacSTS42005
09-07-09, 10:36 PM
i remeber a member who did run a 100 shot on his Eldorado ESC
he did something like a ramp up shot when the nitro spray starts week and amps up to the 100 shot so as not to inflict a hude immediate jump
he ran a 13.9 if memory serves me right
lost to a faily stock Trans AM

CadillacSTS42005
09-07-09, 10:41 PM
found the vid
YouTube - Cadillac Eldorado ETC
alot of people thought it was my ETC but it is not

elcaminokid
09-08-09, 05:16 PM
Yeah I have seen that before pretty pathetic considering how fast the car is supposed to be stock and its still only running 13.9 I really want to hit a high 12 in mine just to show all the ls1s what an old caddy can do. But yeah my 2000 SS camaro has run 13.4 with a shitty 2.2 60 foot. Mine is almostly completely stock, drag radials help a little bit but not really since my clutch slips like a bitch. My friends have run 13.1 on street tires, although i consider my drag radials street tires since I run them as my daily drivers.

I guess to venture into that time territory I'm going to have to start tearing a lot of weight out of the car starting with all that heavy interior and exhaust which is just restrictive anyways.

32vmonte
09-09-09, 01:40 AM
How much does the caddy weigh in the video?

NHRATA01
09-11-09, 02:09 PM
Being bottle fed :drink2:Without a timing reduction, and cooler plugs when No2 is injected will melt down the pistons,valves in a millisecond. aka poof:nox::bighead: believe me i've witnessed it many times.:)

Eh, on a later Northstar tuned for 87, I bet the factory timing is very conservative. Hell even on an '01 LS1 I found the timing from the factory to be no more than 24* of advance. I ran 30 N/A and dropped down to 25 on the bottle on my car spray a 100 shot. As long as you have enough fuel and go 1 step colder on the plugs you probably could get away with a 100 shot on stock timing on your N*, running 91+ octane.

But I wouldn't spray a Northstar to begin with, just my humble opinion.

Submariner409
09-11-09, 03:18 PM
On a level road at one passenger - low engine load mid and high speeds my 2002 STS will show 35 degrees advance with 93 octane and 33 - 34 degrees with 87.

Advance varies all over the place during WOT's and road running.

Stockish Eldorado ? Probably 3800 - 4000 pounds.

elcaminokid
09-11-09, 03:31 PM
yeah eldorado is beastly heavy. with some weight reduction i bet it could scare some ls1 owners. my camaro weighs in at 3425 with the spare tire and jack.
as for the nitrous, im running toluene in my gas about a 50 50 mix. I picked up some used toluene from work. Formula teams use this stuff because its octane rating is like over a hundred i figure cut with gas it should be pretty heavy to run nitrous, plugs probably are important but then again stupid car still overheats anyways so i dunno.

im gonna try putting some of that bullshit headgasket fix in if its 15 bucks or less see what happens

first i need to check to see if waterpump works though i suppose... how can i verify this, just pull off a house and see if its pumping or open up the hosing and look to see the vanes arent spinning on the shaft or something

Submariner409
09-11-09, 09:21 PM
Right next to the water pump housing is a fitting with a 5/8" line which runs to a nipple on the top side of the surge tank - the purge line. With the engine cold, remove the surge tank cap and purge line at the surge tank. Have an assistant start the engine. Point the purge line into the surge tank. Does coolant spit out the purge line ? If not it's only one of two things: the purge line is clogged or the water pump is complete toast.

You can't see any part of the water pump guts.

elcaminokid
09-11-09, 10:33 PM
water pump works. I added Bars head gasket fix. surprisingly it helped.. it took a lot longer to heat up and now with some throttle it actually cools.. but still overheats just sitting at idle... might this be the no thermostat? i still dont see how it could be but i took my laser thermometer and measured the left side of the rad versus the right side and its a clear temperature gradient from left at 140ish to right up to about 190 200+ ranging on what current temp was.. so it appears the radiator is doing its job.
I am going to left the head gasket carp settle some more and fill her back up and see how it does.. be nice if the 10 dollar fix works.

NHRATA01
09-12-09, 02:56 PM
On a level road at one passenger - low engine load mid and high speeds my 2002 STS will show 35 degrees advance with 93 octane and 33 - 34 degrees with 87.

Advance varies all over the place during WOT's and road running.

Stockish Eldorado ? Probably 3800 - 4000 pounds.

I should've clarified. At WOT I doubt you'll see that much advance. Typical for a GM car seems to be low 20s so long as you're not getting any degrees of KR. Hell now that I think about it, I'll see if I can do an autotap log of a WOT run on my SLS sometime soon.

Submariner409
09-12-09, 03:32 PM
Good idea - I'm not at the laptop logging stage, so a set of non-critical curves under a couple of loads would be good info.............

Even on slow deceleration these things drop to 6 -15 degrees advance to lower emissions.

stbtt
09-12-09, 11:17 PM
this is data log of a nitrous run in 2nd gear. dual stage, 75 shot in each stage. I had them come on at the same time on this run. In a 03 sts
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/stbtt/n2ocad1.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/stbtt/n2ocad2.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/stbtt/n2ocad3.jpg

stbtt
09-12-09, 11:57 PM
here is a run to about 60 or so without the nitrous.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/stbtt/cad1.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/stbtt/cad2.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s77/stbtt/cad3.jpg

AJxtcman
09-13-09, 12:34 PM
Nice to see another member with CHARTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

stbtt can you log Target AFR?
I am not sure if the WOT target drops so low from COT or an Engine Protection, but it will drop from 12.8 to 10.2 by the end of the run and in my case the Wide-band log about the same as the Target AFR.

What do you think the AFR drop is for?

stbtt
09-13-09, 02:28 PM
I am not sure if I can or not. I haven't tried to add in new or different PID's in the scanner while hooked up to the cadi. It will not support all the PID's I usually use with this scanner. They just disappear and leave a blank spot or it will tell me that it is not a supported PID. I will see if the commanded AFR in lo res will work with the cadi. but I don't know. As for the drop, I don't know. In COT most of the ranges to set COT I have seen are set around altitude and temp. Not sure what it is in the cadi pcm but in some car's COT will activate at temps of 1526 to 1688