: V2 Wheel Clicking



OKC_CTSV
09-01-09, 03:47 PM
I took my V2 into the caddy dealer yesterday for the 5000 service and for them to fix the clicking when I turn the wheels. They said my W4M exhaust was too low and it was rubbing when i turned the wheels. They realigned my exhaust and no more click. Hope it last!

commander112
09-01-09, 05:26 PM
I hope so too but I have the stock exhaust and have clicking. Good luck.

neuronbob
09-01-09, 05:30 PM
Eh? Where does the exhaust touch the front wheels? Are you sure that your dealer just did the wheel TSB and that's why you don't have the clicking?

OKC_CTSV
09-01-09, 07:05 PM
Eh? Where does the exhaust touch the front wheels? Are you sure that your dealer just did the wheel TSB and that's why you don't have the clicking?

That could be it too, because they did the 5k mile which includes rotate/balance, but my exhaust was also hanging low so maybe they thought it was the exhaust and it was actually the wheels. Hell i don't know...haha! I'll let you all know if it comes back!

nynd
09-01-09, 07:09 PM
They don't rotate the V2 wheels do they? Seeing as they are staggered.. I would think no rotating... unless these guys are removing them from the rims and remounting and re-balancing... which I'd say I'll pass on! And that would be just left to right as rear ares different than fronts.

OKC_CTSV
09-01-09, 07:32 PM
They don't rotate the V2 wheels do they? Seeing as they are staggered.. I would think no rotating... unless these guys are removing them from the rims and remounting and re-balancing... which I'd say I'll pass on! And that would be just left to right as rear ares different than fronts.

they just swapped left and right front and left and right rear on the rotation.

nradcad
09-02-09, 01:44 AM
they just swapped left and right front and left and right rear on the rotation.

uhh..really? No tread direction on the PS2s?

Kadonny
09-02-09, 09:34 AM
uhh..really? No tread direction on the PS2s?

That's a good question. I'm staring at the tires now and they don't seem to be a directional tread. I'll have to go look at the sidewall and see what it says there.

readyact
09-02-09, 09:56 AM
From what I've read the PS2s are non-directional. So if you wish you can rotate them by swapping the driver's side tires with the passenger's side tires. Many people don't recommend this technique because of the nature of the belts in the tires being initially stretched in one direction and then when you swap them to the other side of the car the belts are being stretched in the opposite direction. But I say to each their own do what you want.

Silver -V-
09-02-09, 02:06 PM
Why do the sidewalls on my PS2's say "Outside" on the sidewalls?

nynd
09-02-09, 02:49 PM
Silver -V- , they say this because of the tread pattern. If you put them the other way, the one shallow groove will be more on the inside
as opposed to the outside which I think is a design element for wet traction and water removal.

GM-4-LIFE
09-02-09, 03:15 PM
The wheel clicking issue is very annoying to say the least. I have taken my car in at least 5-7 times (don't know exactly how many times since it has been so often) and GM even replaced all of my painted wheels with the polished wheels and after 1,500 miles of driving, the clicking sound is back.

I called GM and my dealer last week and last night I got a message from the dealer saying NOT to bring the car back in because GM has no fix for it. The service manager has called GM and is waiting for a call back to see what they should do. They are going to let me know if and when GM has a fix for it. They should offer to buy the car back being how many times I have had this problem!

If I don't get any results, I will contact a lemon law attorney and at that point, I am sure they will pay better attention. $65K+ for a car to have this stupid issue is just ridiculous!

SG

tedcmiller
09-02-09, 04:38 PM
The designation of the "Outside" has nothing to do with directionality. A wheel swapped from the left to the right side will still have the "Outside" on the outside. Directional tires have arrows on the sidewall indicating the correct direction of roatation. Pilot Sport PS2s are not directional so "rotation" by swapping sides (not front-to-back on the 2009 CTS-V) is technically OK. However, what readyact says can happen with undesirable consequences. Normally, swapping left-to-right does not cause a problem even with radials. But, you must do this yourself for it to be a economic benefit in increased tire life. If you pay someone else to do, you might as well leave the tires in place until replacement is needed.

Palagius
09-14-09, 07:05 PM
I'm a recent 2009 CTS-V owner (and new to the forums). Sorry for the late post, but I wanted to ask a question on this topic.

I also seem to have some clicking noticeable during low-speed maneuvering when the steering is at full-lock. Is that what you're describing? Any one else have that?

I searched the forums and didn't see anything else obvious.

Caddyscat
09-14-09, 07:28 PM
I highly doubt these expensive-ass tires aren't non-directional.

I torqued my wheels down to 140ft/lbs and the clicking was less than before. I'm hesitant to go all the way to 156ft/lbs.

As for the dealer telling you your exhaust was in the way, sounds like jibberish. Some service writers think they have a technical grasp on everything these cars have, and won't listen to your complaint. I'd like to know what the front wheel hub bearings tolerances are and if they're adequate for the load of the V. I suspect it has something to do with them.

Gary Wells
09-14-09, 07:47 PM
I'm a recent 2009 CTS-V owner (and new to the forums). Sorry for the late post, but I wanted to ask a question on this topic.

I also seem to have some clicking noticeable during low-speed maneuvering when the steering is at full-lock. Is that what you're describing? Any one else have that?

I searched the forums and didn't see anything else obvious.

Welcome to the site / forum, and sorry to hear that you are also having the wheel clicking issue. And yes, it seems that quite a few people have that issue with the wheels, and very few cases have been resolved. There are at least a few threads on this subject.

Gary Wells
09-14-09, 09:21 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/178929-snap-crackle-pop-poll-wheel-clicking.html

gravedigger
09-15-09, 12:21 AM
PS2's are not direction at all, they are asymetrical meaning there is an outside and inside.... How could they have a specific inner and outter and be directional??

rjoffe
09-15-09, 05:41 AM
How could they have a specific inner and outter and be directional??

Simple, have a specific inner and outer, and direction of rotation :).

Each tire in our case would be unique, and non interchangeable.

ewill3rd
09-15-09, 09:29 AM
I have seen directional tires that were left only or right only. PITA to mount and balance!

I haven't had a clicking V2 yet so I don't know what to think of it even though I have heard of a few.

Rotating the tires from side to side is an exercise in futility. There is no benefit and GM specifically says

Models: 2004-2009 Cadillac SRX

2005-2009 Cadillac STS with V8 Luxury Package Only

2006-2009 Cadillac STS-V, XLR-V

2009 Cadillac CTS-V

2003-2006 Chevrolet SSR

2005-2009 Chevrolet Corvette

2005-2008 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This bulletin is being revised to add model years and models. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 05-03-10-015A (Section 03 - Suspension).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Important: The 2007-2009 Cadillac SRX Sport with RPO R1T is equipped with 20" wheels. The front and rear tire/wheel assemblies are the same size. Customers with this vehicle are able to rotate their tires.

The above listed vehicles are manufactured with tire/wheel assemblies that are different from front to rear. In this case, the tires should not be rotated.

If a customer requests to have the tires rotated during normal maintenance, explain to them that the tire/wheel assemblies of their vehicle were designed to be different sizes to enhance the vehicle's handling performance.

Important: Changing the tire/wheel sizes or rotating the tires may affect the vehicle's handling and ride characteristics. GM DOES NOT recommend changing the OEM tires or wheels.


While I would be happy to do it if you were set on it, I would not recommend it as maintenace.

Palagius
09-15-09, 10:40 AM
Welcome to the site / forum, and sorry to hear that you are also having the wheel clicking issue. And yes, it seems that quite a few people have that issue with the wheels, and very few cases have been resolved. There are at least a few threads on this subject.

Thanks for the reply. Clearly my forum navigation and searching skills leave something to be desired.

I'm not (yet) especially broken up about the clicking. This is my first American car (long-time German car bigot) and so far it's been a delight. Some teething issues on a v1.0 car are to be expected.

I'll schedule a service visit and report back.

tedcmiller
09-15-09, 12:24 PM
At about 2500 miles my CTS-V developed the wheel clicking issue when the wheels are turned to the extreme position and the car is manuvered slowly. However, there is no clicking in any other case case. While is is somewhat annoying, it is not really (IMO) a big problem, and I probably will not make a special trip to the dealer for the problem. I will ask about it if I need to be there for other reasons.

Regarding the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires supplied on the 2009 CTS-V, they are definitely not directional. Anyone who believes otherwise is kidding themselves. They do have an inside and an outside (clearly marked on the tire) and, as I pointed out in an earlier post to this thread, the "Outside" designation has nothing to do with directionality. Different size rims on the front and back (due to different tire widths) prohibit front-to-back rotation. Side-to-side swapping, while technically feasible, is not recommended for this car.

aco
09-15-09, 04:20 PM
I have seen directional tires that were left only or right only. PITA to mount and balance!

I haven't had a clicking V2 yet so I don't know what to think of it even though I have heard of a few.

Rotating the tires from side to side is an exercise in futility. There is no benefit and GM specifically says


While I would be happy to do it if you were set on it, I would not recommend it as maintenace.

Not sure why you say side-to-side swap is futile, the quote you reference only refers to front-to-back rotation. Did I miss where it says side-to-side is also not advisable?

radix
09-15-09, 04:49 PM
Not sure why you say side-to-side swap is futile, the quote you reference only refers to front-to-back rotation. Did I miss where it says side-to-side is also not advisable?

good question, I have found that reversing the direction of rotation is often more effective than front to rear rotation in preventing or fixing noise/uneven wear anyway ( both is best if possible)

somewhere around here there was a similar comment from a tire company dude.

ewill3rd
09-15-09, 06:28 PM
:lol:
Sorry that was a different document than I thought.... Try this one... this is an excerpt from the service manual.



Tire Rotation
Important: Tire rotation is not recommended if your vehicle is equipped with different size tires front to rear. Refer to the tire placard on the vehicle to determine OE tire sizes.

If the vehicle is equipped with the same size tire front to rear, rotate the tires and wheels at frequent intervals to equalize wear. In addition to scheduled rotation, rotate the tire and wheel whenever uneven tire wear is noticed.

Due to dissimilar front and rear tire sizes, the tire and wheel assemblies cannot be rotated.

aco
09-15-09, 06:41 PM
Yes, I see a similar note in the owners manual on page 5-80:
"Tire Inspection and Rotation
Inspect tires regularly for signs of wear or damage.
Also inspect the spare tire, if the vehicle has one.
For more information on tire inspection, see When It
Is Time for New Tires on page 5-81.
Tire rotation is not recommended if the vehicle
has 255/40R19 size tires on the front wheels and
285/35R19 size tires on the rear wheels.
Different tire sizes should not be rotated front to
rear. Each tire and wheel should only be used
in its original front or rear position."

I have been doing an internet search on side-to-side rotation and found this forum thread on Tire Rotation Pattern Theory (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1596676&page=1) particularly interesting.

Sorry OP for the tangent.

vetkila
09-15-09, 10:22 PM
We need to relax with the clicking noise. The car is very stiff in order for the vehicle to have superior handling and weigh 4200 lb. I have heard my uncle's ferrari click when pulling out of his driveway. That is the name of the game when you are looking for performance out of your vehicle and in order to get that performance there are racing parts incorporated into you luxury car. If you don't want your car to have a slight click noise buy the regular cts that has a softer suspension.

vetkila
09-15-09, 10:28 PM
We need to relax with the clicking noise. The car is very stiff in order for the vehicle to have superior handling and weigh 4200 lb. I have heard my uncle's ferrari click when pulling out of his driveway. That is the name of the game when you are looking for performance out of your vehicle and in order to get that performance there are racing parts incorporated into you luxury car. If you don't want your car to have a slight click noise buy the regular cts that has a softer suspension.

Gary Wells
09-15-09, 10:48 PM
We need to relax with the clicking noise. The car is very stiff in order for the vehicle to have superior handling and weigh 4200 lb. I have heard my uncle's ferrari click when pulling out of his driveway. That is the name of the game when you are looking for performance out of your vehicle and in order to get that performance there are racing parts incorporated into you luxury car. If you don't want your car to have a slight click noise buy the regular cts that has a softer suspension.

Welcome to the forum / site. I feel that if that was the case then most or all CTS-V's would click. Sorry, but if GM can make most of their or almost all of their CTS-V's clickless, hey, that's sort of like chickless, then something is wrong somewhere. With the Ferrari clicking, that's probably the motor running.
We are probably looking statistically at a very few or a miniscule sample size.

aburd
09-15-09, 10:50 PM
had the tsb done on mine and the clicking is gone for now. 5500 miles



ab

Gary Wells
09-15-09, 10:56 PM
had the tsb done on mine and the clicking is gone for now. 5500 miles



ab

Most of those that have had the TSB performed have had the misfortune of the wheel clicking coming back, sometimes in spades, (where's AERO1 at?). Wishing you luck, but more than likely it will be back.

Caddybama
09-15-09, 11:35 PM
Just dropped my V off for the clicking noise. Service manager states it is the front wheel bearing. Has ordered new bearing and should be installed by Saturday. Will post if this corrects the problem. I saw an earlier post questioning wheel bearing tolerance, but nothing after. Any more updates regarding wheel bearings???

Nutz
09-16-09, 09:47 PM
Mine just started today (after I let my father borrow my car):banghead:

I suspect that multiple full-lock turns at around 2 to 3 mph triggered it from what he said. I rarely do a full lock when turning based on a mechanic years ago that told me that that pitch change that the pump makes is the pressure that causes leaks. My point is that if you have a newer V and want to prolong this until a positive repair is reached, avoid full-lock turning if possible.

I will watch here for results from others.

No biggie for me, still the coolest dam car, and I have confidence in the service it will get.

Gary Wells
09-16-09, 09:56 PM
Nutz:
How many miles on the car?

Gary Wells
09-16-09, 09:58 PM
Caddybama:
How many miles on yours?

Nutz
09-16-09, 10:37 PM
nutz:
How many miles on the car?3100

another_lap
09-16-09, 11:22 PM
Mine has 3000 miles. Started clicking three days ago. Took it in to the dealer, and they said there was nothing useful they could do now. Said GM was engineering a fix. I asked them if there was any risk at driving it, they said no. Of course I do not know how they know that, if they do not know what the problem is. I mean if it is the bearing, then something bad could happen. Anyway, I was thinking of going for a three day joy ride in the remote west, to do some really high speed driving but now I am concerned about going 150+mph when I do not know if the bearing is the problem.

I will be checking back with the forum and dealer periodically to see if a clear fix has been found.

another_lap

v10brat
09-18-09, 05:32 PM
Hi guys I have an 09 with 3500 miles and I noticed mine clicking the other day and like most of you it only does it at full wheel lock left or right . Please keep me in the loop if a fix is discovered for this .
Thanks

another_lap
09-18-09, 11:41 PM
Mine does not have to be anywhere near full lock. 270 degree turn of the steering wheel to the left is enough for lots of loud popping from the right front wheel. Only the right wheel does it so far. Sounds like someone hitting two spoons together. Really embarrasing as I wind my way through the parking garage at work. Someone walked up to me today after I parked asking if I was aware that something was broken.

Anyway tonight I jacked it up. Wheel seems to rotate as expected with nothing unusual. No unusual play in the assembly either. This whole thing is really strange.

Caddyscat
09-19-09, 03:23 AM
Mine does it too, gradual onset as the weight increases on the wheel. The more I turn the wheel the more it clicks, I believe this has something to do with the weight of the vehicle and the hub bearings which is why I asked about bearing tolerances. Some ball bearings are soft enough to absorb small particles, maybe these are too soft and are wearing prematurely. I wonder if the supplier cut corners on manufacturing them (chinese?).

I think that stuff a mechanic told you years ago about full lock turns is null and void nowadays, at least on our cars - like when you could only put the car in overdrive after you were traveling fast enough.

Gary Wells
09-19-09, 09:12 PM
Maybe just a dumb question, but has anybody themselves had either of their *front wheel* hubs off and inspected the wheel bearings. Is the wheel hub and the bearing a one piece design? If Gm were to have to replace a front wheel bearing, would they be able to replace only the bearing or would they have to replace both the hub and the bearing?

GM-4-LIFE
09-20-09, 02:43 AM
I have had this dreaded wheel clicking issue since the car was new with very low miles and after each time the dealer performed the TSB, the problem always came back within 1,500 miles. GM is sending two lead field engineers to my dealer in a week or so to check my car out. The dealer is also getting two new front rotors and hub assemblies in case the engineers want to install them if they feel that is causing the wheel clicking issue. I think my car has been at the dealer at least 5-7 or more times for this clicking issue.

I am also experiencing wind noise from the right side of the car. It sounds like it is coming from the B-pillar area. The B-pillar trim piece above the seat belt mount where it meets the headliner is not flush like on the driver's side. There is a gap there and I can't believe the factory let the car go out like that without making sure there was no gap and they should have made sure the interior pieces were flush and fit perfectly. I think that is where the wind noise is coming in from. Sometimes it sounds like the window is cracked open. That's how loud the wind and exterior noise is and the faster you go, the louder the wind noise.

SG

Gary Wells
09-20-09, 02:21 PM
SG:
From your post I take it that the bearings are an integral component of the hubs? Is that for rear as well as for the front hubs?

another_lap
09-20-09, 09:57 PM
Aero1: I have the same wind noise and weatherstripping fit problem on my car.

Very interested to hear what the field engineers say. Tell them many people have the wheel clicking problem.

I thought GM engineering was working on a fix already. The fact that they are going to the dealer to see what is wrong with yours tells me they are in the early stages of diagnosing/fixing this problem.

GM-4-LIFE
09-20-09, 11:22 PM
Gary Wells,

Honestly, I have no idea, but I will let you know as soon as my car gets checked out by the GM field engineers.

another_lap,

The weatherstripping fitment is not where I noticed the gap. I noticed the gap on the inside of the car located on the B-pillar. There is a gap where the seat belt mount cover meets the headliner. There is a gap there, but I can't tell if the wind noise is coming in from the area where the gap is. I will report it to GM when my car goes in and hope the field engineers can solve the problems my car is having.

I would also say that GM isn't anywhere near close to resolving the clicking noise and they are aware that a lot of CTS-Vs have the problem. Who knows when they will have a fix for the car.

SG

dmr_in_il
09-20-09, 11:56 PM
I just had mine in for this early this week. They replaced the lower intermediate steering shaft, cleaned the rotors and re torqued the wheels. The noise is gone and everything feels good.

I mention this because this is the first I've heard about replacing the lower intermediate steering shaft. I'll let everyone know how it works out, as I'm leaving on an almost 2,000 mile road trip Wednesday morning.

Doug

SlvrBullIT
09-21-09, 12:17 AM
Good post dmr in il, will have to go look at mine. Heard a pop in mine as I was turning left to the drive through... mucho concerned now...

RapidRob
09-22-09, 12:01 AM
^^^ Yes indeed - good info., (possibly .. )! I used to chime-in on some of these, 'wheel-clicking', threads when I first received my v2, smugly announcing that I didn't have the problem. Well, guess what? At about 3000 miles now, I do indeed, have the problem. :nono: Sooo - next trip to dealer it will be brought to their attention just for the record, and the above info. as well.

Thanks for the information!

Rob

Gary Wells
09-22-09, 01:51 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/180655-2009-powertrain-warranty-better-see-urgent.html

Am I reading this correctly, under item # 6 (eliminated), did GM just resolve their problems regarding the front wheel bearing issue?
I sort of glad that I bought a '09 and did not order a '10 now. More eliminations than additions.

ewill3rd
09-22-09, 02:02 PM
The hub/bearing/wheel speed sensor is serviced as an assembly.
They cannot be "inspected" and are serviced only by complete replacement.

Gary Wells
09-22-09, 07:17 PM
The hub/bearing/wheel speed sensor is serviced as an assembly.
They cannot be "inspected" and are serviced only by complete replacement.

Sorry, very bad attempt at communication on my part. Basically, so if anything goes wrong with any of the three components regardless of the other 2 then the whole unit requires replacement. I am having a very hard time seeing GM live up to their warranty claims on this issue if they have to replace a complete hub/bearing/wheel speed sensor unit when only the bearing goes bad. No wonder it is taking them so long to come up with a resolution for the front wheel clicking issue. I hate to ask stupid questions, but just how much is that unit? And worst case scenario, if one of my wheel bearings goes out, I have no guarantee that the replacement unit that I am buying will last any longer than the previous one. I am not trying to be pessimistic about this issue, but this doesn't sound good for the consumer that has a '09 or a '10 CTS-V. Any ideas?

another_lap
09-27-09, 12:33 PM
Anyone have any noteworthy developments regarding this problem? Taking mine in again tomorrow for this...

GM-4-LIFE
09-27-09, 01:35 PM
I am taking mine back in yet again tomorrow, Monday morning (Sept 28) as the dealer has ordered the necessary parts they feel will fix the problem. GM field engineers will be at the dealer to inspect my car.

I have a little over 8,200 miles on my V.

I will update everyone as soon as I get my car back and see if they have found the problem, but I can guarantee everyone that this is just a waste of time. I don't think they know what they are doing and just want to try replacing parts. After a 1,000-1,500 miles, the problem always comes back on my car. Never fails.

SG

Gary Wells
09-27-09, 01:53 PM
AERO1, even if what they find and do works on your car permanently, can't you just see the GM engineering staff flying around the country to fix all of the cars that have this problem. Please post up with the results, good, bad, or ugly as I think that a lot of peeps are closely following this thread. I indeed am.

tedcmiller
09-27-09, 02:08 PM
As I indicated in my previous post to this thread, I have the wheel clicking issue but do not consider it to be a particularly pressing problem. However, I would like to know when and if the problem and/or parts that cause this are definitely identified. If this actually happens, it is unlikely that the GM engineering staff will go anywhere, and it is further unlikely that anyone will be notified through a recall notice since recalls are done only for safety issues, which this problem does not seem to be.

If the issue turns out to be a part, I am sure that part will be modified to eliminate the clicking and made available to those who ask for it. However, only those who have the issue and take their car to the dealer, or read "clicking" threads on this forum, will be aware of it.

Gary Wells
09-27-09, 02:24 PM
Sorry for any confusion that my post may have caused, but the part about GM engineers flying all over the country to fix this problem, that was a joke.

GM-4-LIFE
09-28-09, 08:08 PM
Dropped my car off this morning at my dealer and my service advisor just called to inform me that my car hasn't been touched because they were instructed not to do any work on the car by the GM field engineers. They want to be the ones to inspect the car firsthand and they won't be able to come out until tomorrow. So, dropping off the car today was a complete waste of time.

I just wanted to give everyone an update though.

SG

edsuski
10-02-09, 12:29 AM
Aero1

Any update?

GM-4-LIFE
10-02-09, 01:19 AM
Aero1

Any update?

No update as of yet. GM field engineers inspected the car on Tuesday and verified the car still has the problem. They replaced the rotor/hub assemblies and had the tech at the dealer put teflon coating on the inside of the front wheels where it mounts against the rotors.

My service advisor and I feel that their fix will NOT fix the problem at all because all they did was replace my rotors with the same design factory rotor assemblies. They replaced my factory painted wheels with factory polished wheels and the problem still came back, so it looks like GM is just throwing parts at the problem instead of doing some R&D to really find the root of the problem.

Right now, my car is sitting on a lift waiting for new V-spec front lugnuts. GM field engineers instructed the dealership to wait for new lugnuts which have to come from the manufacturer of the lugnuts. The field engineers feel that the car needs new lugnuts because they have been torqued on and off the car too many times. Who knows how long it will take to get the new lugnuts, because they are not coming from GM. They are coming from the manufacturer of the lugnuts!

I am getting really fed up with all this crap. Pay this much for a car and have this many damn problems. I am really seriously considering contacting a lemon law attorney and/or the Better Business Bureau Autoline. This time around the dealer has had my car for at least 5 days and that doesn't include all the other times the dealer had my car. This has to qualify as a lemon considering how many times the car has gone in for the same damn problem. I have given the dealer and GM a "reasonable" amount of attempts to resolve the problem, which is a problem that GM doesn't have a fix for.

I will continue to update you guys, but I know the problem will be back after a few hundred miles.

SG

neuronbob
10-02-09, 06:45 AM
It sounds like they are going through process of elimination. Not the wheels, not the lugs, now we'll see it's not the rotors. How about bearings? Who knows where this will go. I can't believe this problem wasn't obvious on pre-production models, it's such an obvious one.

Gary Wells
10-02-09, 08:29 AM
It sounds like they are going through process of elimination. Not the wheels, not the lugs, now we'll see it's not the rotors. How about bearings? Who knows where this will go. I can't believe this problem wasn't obvious on pre-production models, it's such an obvious one.
In all fairness to GM, that would depend upon how many pre-production cars were there, if any, and how many miles did they test them, but I can't believe that they haven't found the cause yet. I have been thinking wheel bearings all along.

ewill3rd
10-02-09, 09:05 AM
I wonder if they will find what I have been seeing on the V1?
I have had 3 or 4 of these with a single click with load changes.
Example, back up, stop firmly, shift to first and let out the clutch "snap".
Same goes for the other direction.
Often it will do it leaving stops.

I have chased a few down and found little success without replacing the hub assembly on the offending wheel.
Seems to be a spline issue, haven't pinned it down.
If I could hear one of these I could tell you if it is the same noise.
No one here has complained of it yet.

GM-4-LIFE
10-02-09, 10:54 AM
I will ask the dealer if they replaced the bearings, but isn't the rotor/hub/speed sensor and bearings all one unit? Correct me if I am wrong.

I will ask the tech working on the car if they replaced the bearings when I see him and let you guys know.

As far as this problem coming up in R&D testing on pre-production models, all I can say is that it is GM. I just can't believe that they didn't or couldn't hear it during testing. I mean, COME ON!

SG

ewill3rd
10-02-09, 10:56 AM
Yes the hub and bearing are one assembly with the sensor.
I had one that I replaced both hubs on (qquik4u) and I think two others that got one each.
Is that when you notice the noise?

GM-4-LIFE
10-02-09, 11:02 AM
Yes the hub and bearing are one assembly with the sensor.
I had one that I replaced both hubs on (qquik4u) and I think two others that got one each.
Is that when you notice the noise?

I haven't picked up my car as of yet, but the clicking noise is constantly there when turning left or right and it doesn't have to be full lock either. We will see what happens after I pick it up and start driving it again.

I really think GM is chasing their tail here. I don't think they know what is causing the problem, so they are throwing parts at it hoping it would fix it, but the problem is that the parts are not revised or a new version. They are just replacing bad parts with bad parts.

SG

ewill3rd
10-02-09, 12:32 PM
I wish I could say I have never been in that position.

tedcmiller
10-02-09, 01:52 PM
The clicking problem seems to occur when the wheel is turned from the straight-ahead position. Some people say it occurs only when the wheels are turned to or near the lock postion (which is what happens in my case); others indicate clicking at wheel positions not near the lock. I am guessing that something on the rotating parts are contacting something else that is not rotating and this occurs only when the wheel is moved from the straight-ahead position and is fully loaded with the weight of the car and at least one passenger. These circumstances combined with the fact that only some, not all, of these cars exhibit this problem make it very difficult to diagnose. Does the 2010 CTS-V have this problem? Have enough miles been put on the 2010 CTS-Vs for this problem to show up?

Palagius
10-02-09, 06:55 PM
Update:

I took my V2 in today (Moore Cadillac in Virginia) specifically for the clicking. I was easily able to demonstrate the noise to my service adviser.

My service ticket says "Wheels improperly torqued. Perform service bulliten [sic] 2261126 and torque wheels to 158 ft lbs." The car no longer exhibits the clicking at all. I realize others have had recurrences and I'll post if I end up being one of those people. I'm at 2900 miles right now.

rjoffe
10-02-09, 07:00 PM
Update:

I took my V2 in today (Moore Cadillac in Virginia) specifically for the clicking. I was easily able to demonstrate the noise to my service adviser.

Palagius,

If the clicking comes back, is it possible for you to drive down to Lindsay and have them take a look. Ewill3rd (Bill) is the super tech there, he has worked on many V1's and is a frequent poster here. Providing him with a first hand look at this might be very useful for all.

Ron

mpouls1
10-02-09, 09:00 PM
I hope some fix can be made, soon. This "torqe" thing is absurd and the only reason I haven't taken mine in yet. People stare at me when driving slowly or parking and I'm pretty sure it is not for the car's looks. :banghead:

Build date: 3/09
Miles: ~3500 when it started

Michael

GMX322V S/C
10-02-09, 09:15 PM
I'm convinced that this problem is inherent to the design and makeup of our wheels; I've had mine in several times for the issue and they've applied the TSB for the 3rd time now. Always comes back within 1,500 miles or so. I've heard the "crinkling/ticking" from outside the car many times and to me it simply sounds like micro-creep/judder at the wheel/hub interface being amplified by the inherent lightweight forged design of the wheel itself. Tap lightly on the wheel spokes with a hard object and it "rings."

While I was putting the tune back into the car after I got back from the dealer, I could hear very faint renditions of the crinkling/ticking noise as the wheels cooled off in my quiet garage. I don't think it was the exhaust or anything else because after starting the engine after applying the tune I let it warm up again for a few minutes before shutting it down and sat there for as long as when I heard the sounds before and didn't hear them again.

GM-4-LIFE
10-02-09, 09:20 PM
I'm convinced that this problem is inherent to the design and makeup of our wheels; I've had mine in several times for the issue and they've applied the TSB for the 3rd time now. Always comes back within 1,500 miles or so. I've heard the "crinkling/ticking" from outside the car many times and to me it simply sounds like micro-creep/judder at the wheel/hub interface being amplified by the inherent lightweight forged design of the wheel itself. Tap lightly on the wheel spokes with a hard object and it "rings."

While I was putting the tune back into the car after I got back from the dealer, I could hear very faint renditions of the crinkling/ticking noise as the wheels cooled off in my quiet garage. I don't think it was the exhaust or anything else because after starting the engine after applying the tune I let it warm up again for a few minutes before shutting it down and sat there for as long as when I heard the sounds before and didn't hear them again.

I agree with you 100%. It is a bad wheel design and it will be present on all 2009 and 2010 CTS-Vs and future years as long as they keep the same wheel design.

SG

mpouls1
10-02-09, 09:54 PM
I'm convinced that this problem is inherent to the design and makeup of our wheels; I've had mine in several times for the issue and they've applied the TSB for the 3rd time now. Always comes back within 1,500 miles or so. I've heard the "crinkling/ticking" from outside the car many times and to me it simply sounds like micro-creep/judder at the wheel/hub interface being amplified by the inherent lightweight forged design of the wheel itself. Tap lightly on the wheel spokes with a hard object and it "rings."

While I was putting the tune back into the car after I got back from the dealer, I could hear very faint renditions of the crinkling/ticking noise as the wheels cooled off in my quiet garage. I don't think it was the exhaust or anything else because after starting the engine after applying the tune I let it warm up again for a few minutes before shutting it down and sat there for as long as when I heard the sounds before and didn't hear them again.

Hmm... Anyone got aftermarket rims?

Palagius
10-02-09, 10:05 PM
If the clicking comes back, is it possible for you to drive down to Lindsay and have them take a look. Ewill3rd (Bill) is the super tech there, he has worked on many V1's and is a frequent poster here. Providing him with a first hand look at this might be very useful for all.

Yes, I'm willing to do that should the issue reappear. I certainly hope it doesn't though.

Gary Wells
10-02-09, 10:32 PM
Hmm... Anyone got aftermarket rims?

Yes, somebody on here a ways back had gone to aftermarket rims and did not have any clicking with the aftermarket rims, but did have clicking with the factory rims. This was maybe 3 or 4 months back, dunno on name or thread subject. Come to think about it, I don't remember anybody with the clicking issue posting on here that had aftermarket rims. Hmm? If that's the only solution, I am going to be brokenhearted. These are the only rims that I like on these cars.

mpouls1
10-02-09, 10:40 PM
Yes, somebody on here a ways back had gone to aftermarket rims and did not have any clicking with the aftermarket rims, but did have clicking with the factory rims. This was maybe 3 or 4 months back, dunno on name or thread subject.

Great, so now my bling'ed out excessively chromed V (joking) is going to need some aftermarket thug rims put on. Let the pullover stops begin... :cop:

thunder gray
10-04-09, 01:58 PM
Well after 3,600 miles I have the dreaded clicking noise, after reading all the post my question was "how about aftermarket wheels" now this may be the solution but not the answer. GM sure as hell is NOT going to buy us all new wheels.

Gary Wells
10-04-09, 02:59 PM
Sorry to hear, thunder gray, I know that this is a heartbreaker, but I am still hoping that GM will come up with a "cause and corrective action" plan that does not include the wheels, as I know that they are not going to replace the wheels either. I am still hoping that it turns out to be something that we have not suspected that is within their best interests to fix. Doesn't sound like the hub-bearing-tire pressure sensor would be a cheap fix either, but the bearings would be if they could be replaced by themselves.

Gary Wells
10-04-09, 03:20 PM
Also, It's hard for me to understand what can go wrong with a rim at approximately 3K miles when it was Ok to begin with, unless they are cracking or getting hairline fractures in them, which would be a safety issue and would be corrected pretty much regardless of expense. On the other hand, I can see bearings going bad after 3K miles, or wearing to the point that they become noisy, or if the counterbores holding the bearing races were not machined properly, or the seating depth was not the best selection. Just a thought.

GM-4-LIFE
10-05-09, 08:48 PM
My car is still sitting on a lift at the dealer waiting for "V specific" lugnuts to come from the manufacturer. My car has now been at the dealer since last Monday, September 28 which makes today the 8th day. It may be 9 or 10 days in service just this time around, not counting how many other times it has been in service.

I will continue to keep you guys up to date.

SG

Palagius
10-05-09, 08:59 PM
My car is still sitting on a lift at the dealer waiting for "V specific" lugnuts to come from the manufacturer. My car has now been at the dealer since last Monday, September 28 which makes today the 8th day. It may be 9 or 10 days in service just this time around, not counting how many other times it has been in service.

I will continue to keep you guys up to date.

Thanks for the updates. I must say I'm equally torn between dismay that you're having such problems and relief that (immediately solution or not) they appear to actually be paying attention to the problem.

I hope that if it starts again on my car my dealer will also not just say "Oh, that's normal" and send me out the door.

Gary Wells
10-05-09, 09:12 PM
Thanks for the updates. I must say I'm equally torn between dismay that you're having such problems and relief that (immediately solution or not) they appear to actually be paying attention to the problem.

I hope that if it starts again on my car my dealer will also not just say "Oh, that's normal" and send me out the door.

I take it that they have done the TSB on your car? At what mileage did your car start clicking? Just curious.

GMX322V S/C
10-05-09, 09:15 PM
^^^Let's unify and not let them say it's "normal." When I complained about the creaks in my center stack, the service manager said he drove two other cars and the sounds are "normal." Right!

Palagius
10-05-09, 09:26 PM
I take it that they have done the TSB on your car? At what mileage did your car start clicking? Just curious.

If that's directed at me, I'm not sure at what mileage the noise started. I had the car in at approximately 2900 miles to address it and they did the TSB. I've put about 100 miles on the car since without recurrence.

If that wasn't directed at me, please ignore. :-)

Gary Wells
10-05-09, 09:46 PM
Palagius:
Yes, thank you, I was just curious. It seems that it starts on the cars that have the issue by or about 3K miles.

clubho
10-05-09, 09:57 PM
My car is still sitting on a lift at the dealer waiting for "V specific" lugnuts to come from the manufacturer. My car has now been at the dealer since last Monday, September 28 which makes today the 8th day. It may be 9 or 10 days in service just this time around, not counting how many other times it has been in service.

I will continue to keep you guys up to date.

SG

Thanks for the updates and man do I get the heartache. I have been following your posts for months (including your first two posts). I am now on my 4th trip in as well to get it fixed. Add in another 4 trips for sunroof and rattle problems and yes I would say I have not enjoyed the experience. In the eight months I've had the car about 2 1/2 months of it have been in the shop. Well now the rattles and sunroof are fixed but the clicking is bad again. This is the second time it's been this bad. It always starts out really quiet and after a week or so it gets loud enough to hear in the car, with the windows up. I have a 25 mph exit off the freeway I like to do at about 50 and it sounds like a tin can in a shredder.

Also, I should be above making this next statement but I am actually glad there are now a ton of people that know our misery vs. the first string where people said, oh shut up, it's not a big deal, quit whining. It's different now that others are experiencing it too. Maybe now something will get done if we all start showing up demanding an answer.

What did you find out about the Lemon Law? Personally, I donít feel all that great listening to metal on metal when cornering at any speeds, especially high-speeds (obviously).

Is there a final conclusion about changing the wheels to an aftermarket wheel? I have searched but to no avial.

Gary Wells
10-05-09, 10:18 PM
I did a search yesterday or the day before on this forum section under the term "clicking" or "click" and what came up sort of scared me. There was 1 1/2 pages of threads that came up, of which approximately appeared to be about half were regarding the wheel clicking issue. Some of the early reporting peeps haven't been on this thread or haven't been on the forum for a while, so I can only assume that some or most of these peeps have just learned to live with the issue. I just tried searching and I got the "security token gig" like 3 times in a row under the term "clicking" and 2 times under the term "click". Maybe just a coincidence, maybe not. It would be interesting to Pm some of the early players in the "wheel clicking issue" and find out if their issue / issues were ever taken care of. I would sure like to know the build dates of the cars that have had this issue.

ewill3rd
10-05-09, 10:27 PM
I'd be happy to take a crack at one of these.
I can't promise that I would set any speed records or that I'd have a magic fix but I am curious to hear it and see what it is all about.

Palagius
10-05-09, 10:30 PM
I'd be happy to take a crack at one of these.
I can't promise that I would set any speed records or that I'd have a magic fix but I am curious to hear it and see what it is all about.

My car and I live in Fairfax. If mine does start again I'd be glad to let you have a look at it.

Gary Wells
10-05-09, 10:43 PM
I'd be happy to take a crack at one of these.
I can't promise that I would set any speed records or that I'd have a magic fix but I am curious to hear it and see what it is all about.

That is a very generous and note worthy offer, ewill3rd, and if mine were clicking yet and I lived anywhere near you, I would be down there in a heartbeat. I've only 500 miles on mine, but as you can tell, I am dreading the 3k mile click. I am hoping that I am one of the lucky ones that does not have this issue. You will surely go to heaven on your merit alone if for no other reason solely for offering to look into this issue for us.

Gary Wells
10-05-09, 10:46 PM
Well, I have surely lost my forum scout merit badge for searches and investigations. Still get the Security token automatic badge removal policy. I'm doomed.

rjoffe
10-05-09, 11:33 PM
Google is your friend :) Search for :

site:cadillacforums.com cts-v "wheel clicking"

ewill3rd
10-06-09, 09:23 AM
I enjoy a challenge.
I seem to have a knack for at least pinning down problem areas and I know a few engineers up in Detroit.
I can't get the BQM for CTS-V to communicate with me but I know a few other people that I can rely on to get messages to him.
As I said, I can't promise anything except my best attempt and I am also limited by the parts that GM has to offer as replacements.
If it is a manufacturing problem I obviously can't fabricate my own parts but am stuck putting more of the same on. Bear in mind if they do find the source they have to dismantle it and find out why, then go to the contractor making the part and tell them to fix it, then build up stock of new parts... etc....

I can't tell you how many times I have beat my head on a car to find out the problem only to have a bulletin come out a few months later telling everyone else what I figured out, heck sometimes they use my TAC cases to write the darn things... :lol:

Kadonny
10-06-09, 09:40 AM
Someone needs to get a clicking car to Bill asap.

ewill3rd
10-06-09, 11:17 AM
Don't rush in, I am taking a few days off.

;)

GM-4-LIFE
10-06-09, 08:26 PM
I hate to sound so pesimistic, but I don't think GM will ever have a fix for this dreaded problem.

Today is day 9 that my car is at the dealer just sitting there. Dealer called me this morning and said they tracked the package with the lugnuts and it should be delivered to the dealer tomorrow. We will just have to wait and see I guess.

It will be at the dealer a total of 10 days if I get the car back tomorrow. What a joke!

Just giving you guys another update.

SG

Gary Wells
10-06-09, 08:42 PM
AERO1:
I don't think that you are being pessimistic, only realistic. I have felt for some time that if a cure was found it would be cost prohibitive. What are the engineers indicating? They don't sound very positive about finding a cure?
I hope for all of us that this is not the case. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you and all of us just in case. Wishing you the best of luck on this. Sounds like all of us might need it in the long run. If you don't mind me asking, what is your build date please?

GM-4-LIFE
10-06-09, 09:10 PM
AERO1:
I don't think that you are being pessimistic, only realistic. I have felt for some time that if a cure was found it would be cost prohibitive. What are the engineers indicating? They don't sound very positive about finding a cure?
I hope for all of us that this is not the case. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you and all of us just in case. Wishing you the best of luck on this. Sounds like all of us might need it in the long run. If you don't mind me asking, what is your build date please?

Gary,

The engineers aren't indicating anything. They are denial thinking that it could be everything except the flawed wheel design. I feel it is a wheel design for sure. At this point, they are trying to keep me quiet by throwing parts at the damn car and hoping something will fix it. They aren't going to get rid of me. Not by a long shot!

My car was built back in 12/08.

SG

ewill3rd
10-07-09, 09:27 AM
I wonder if wheels off of something else would fit?

I have heard some crazy noises come from tires too, you'd never think it would but where the tire meets the rim you can get weird noises on some types of tires.

Nutz
10-07-09, 02:11 PM
I wonder if wheels off of something else would fit?

I have heard some crazy noises come from tires too, you'd never think it would but where the tire meets the rim you can get weird noises on some types of tires.My 08 C6 has the same TIRE size as the V on the rear, don't know the offset though. I will try to find time to swap them. I will even try to swap the Vette rears for the V fronts. :suspense:

GM-4-LIFE
10-07-09, 02:36 PM
My 08 C6 has the same TIRE size as the V on the rear, don't know the offset though. I will try to find time to swap them. I will even try to swap the Vette rears for the V fronts. :suspense:

Nutz,

That is mighty nice of you!

Please let us all know of the outcome!

SG

NeedCTS-v
10-07-09, 03:19 PM
So, I had the clicking noise twice on my car and on the 2nd fix, it went away. That was almost 4k miles ago.

Let me know if there is anything I can do including trying to contact the tech.

thunder gray
10-07-09, 05:30 PM
needcts-v what did they do on the 2nd fix?

Caddyscat
10-07-09, 07:31 PM
if the wheels are solid, why would they click? I say bad bearings.

GM-4-LIFE
10-07-09, 07:41 PM
Ok, dealer called me about a couple hours ago and said that they got the lugnuts from the manufacturer and installed on the car, BUT GM has instructed them NOT to release the car back to me until the GM field engineers have spoken to the service manager and/or have inspected the vehicle at the dealer. I mean, WTF??!!!!

They have held my car hostage for 10 days so far and now this? How much longer do they expect me to wait? I am paying for a car that I am not using. They should be covering my monthly car payment for god sakes!

Just giving you another update. What a nightmare!

SG

mpouls1
10-08-09, 01:43 AM
I can understand your frustration. Hopefully you are being compensated in some way.

I'm waiting for your guinea pig of a car to hopefully be fixed. It is much appreciated.

NeedCTS-v
10-08-09, 09:00 AM
needcts-v what did they do on the 2nd fix?

According to the service manager in both cases they followed the TSB instructions. On the second fix they said that they had to follow the instructions very literally. In this case I do no know what the 'secret sauce' is but I can try to contact the tech to see if there were any make/break critical steps in his mind that might be easily overlooked.

GM-4-LIFE
10-09-09, 12:40 AM
Got the car back today finally after 11 days in service.

I will now monitor the car to see if the noise comes back which I am almost positive it will. All they did was replace my factory parts with new un-revised ones.

I will know in about 1,000-1,500 miles if the sound will return. I will keep you guys updated.

SG

Gary Wells
10-09-09, 05:29 AM
Glad to hear that you got your car back, SG, I know that was extremely frustrating to say the least. Which parts did they end up replacing, please?

thunder gray
10-09-09, 08:53 AM
Hey folks my car goes into the dealer 10/15 for the wheel clicking and to ck. the rearend fluid level. Is there a TSB I should refer them to on these issues? Any suggestions on this would be great thanks!

neuronbob
10-09-09, 01:50 PM
Do keep us posted SG.

If the new parts were unchanged, I fail to see how the problem won't come back.

GM-4-LIFE
10-09-09, 03:51 PM
Gary Wells,

They replaced both front rotors and front lugnuts. They checked bearings and they were fine, so bearings were not changed.

I can say that the clicking noise is much fainter with the polished wheels over my painted wheels. The clicking noise with the painted wheels was loud!

SG

Buzduz74
10-12-09, 03:37 PM
My dealer in Del Ray Beach Florida has no fix yet. My left front wheel is REAL loud but will wait till a real fix.
Buzz

GM-4-LIFE
10-12-09, 03:45 PM
My dealer in Del Ray Beach Florida has no fix yet. My left front wheel is REAL loud but will wait till a real fix.
Buzz

GOOD LUCK!! When GM wants to start doing research on their actual wheel design, they may actually find the fix. It is obvious that it's the front wheels that is causing the noise and nothing else. For now, they will just keep throwing parts at it and think that the 158 ft.-lbs. of torque will fix it. It will, but temporarily.

It will be a very expensive TSB for GM once they face the facts that they have to revise the front wheel design in order to get rid of this clicking noise.

If the NHTSA issues a mandatory recall due to complaints on this wheel clicking, GM will be forced to do something worthy instead of what they are currently doing which is really nothing. To this day, I am convinced that GM doesn't know what is causing the clicking noise or they don't want to issue a permanent TSB which will be a new front wheel design on the inside of the actual wheel because it will be VERY expensive for them. Money they don't have to spend, unless they can get the supplier of the wheels to cough up the dough, but being that GM gave them the wheel specs to manufacture, GM will be the ones holding the bag in the end. Serves them right for not doing proper R&D! Sorry to rant. Just venting because of my current situation.

SG

Low_ET
10-12-09, 11:15 PM
I have about 3,500 miles on my '09 CTS-V. The wheel clicking started at about 2,000 miles and has been getting louder and louder. I read the posts on the GM TSB. I'm not a big fan of other people working on my car so I decided to do the TSB myself.

I took off the wheels and cleaned the rotor surface and the back of the wheels with brake parts cleaner (CRC Brand). The factory torque on the lug nuts was very low - it just took a flick of the wrist to break them loose. The surfaces had a waxy material on them that took a bit of work to clean off.

I installed the wheels and torqued to 140 ft-lbs (the minimum of the "140 - 158 ft-lb" spec). The clicking is completely gone. I will keep and eye (or ear) on it and take note of if and when it comes back.

One observation: The hub that centers the wheel is steel and not cast iron. The rotor is cast iron and the wheel is aluminum. Dissimilar metals in contact is a good way to get corrosion started (especially here in costal Florida). The bare steel hub has fretting corrosion where the wheel contacts it. That is a suspicious sign. I'm going to keep an eye on the hub.

GMX322V S/C
10-13-09, 05:42 AM
^^^Did you notice if our wheels are hub-centric?

another_lap
10-13-09, 06:44 PM
I have been following this thread for a while now. My car started the clicking six weeks ago. The TSB was done and the problem went away. What this tells me is that the problem is not bearing related or anything having to do with the suspension assembly. It is a material-based anomaly related to the combination of at least two among: the wheel, the hub and the lug nuts. What is most likely happening is that there is differential movement between at least, but most likely only, two of those parts. The expansion properties of the hub and aluminum wheel are significantly different. Over time, with heating and cooling the parts become loose. Not in the literal sense of the term loose, but microscopically loose. After they are "loose", lateral force caused by the vehicle's motion while the wheels are turned causing microscopic snapping, leading to the clicking noise we are all hearing.

So, what is the solution? Seems to me that a likely, simple and long lasting solution is to remove the wheels, clean off the surfaces and place a thin, tough pvc or carbon-fiber type layer of material between the hub and wheel. The material could be cut to size, with holes for the lug nuts. Then tighten the whole thing to some reasonable torque. The material would need to be very thin, and therefore very tough. You would not want a material that over time would become compressed further. The next time mine starts the clicking, this is what I will try.

The only reason this would not work is if the problem is at the surface intersection between the lug nuts and the wheel. My guess at this point is that the chance is >50% that the problem is what I describe above, and does not involve the lug nuts.

This idea of torquing the hell out of the lug nuts is crazy.

another_lap

tedcmiller
10-13-09, 11:15 PM
another lap,
The use of a gasket between the wheel and the hub is what I had considered for a while, but I can not think of a suitable material from which to make the gasket.

Anybody have any suggestions besides PVC or carbon fiber?

OldRoadDawg
10-14-09, 12:11 PM
So, what is the solution? Seems to me that a likely, simple and long lasting solution is to remove the wheels, clean off the surfaces and place a thin, tough pvc or carbon-fiber type layer of material between the hub and wheel. The material could be cut to size, with holes for the lug nuts. Then tighten the whole thing to some reasonable torque. The material would need to be very thin, and therefore very tough. You would not want a material that over time would become compressed further. The next time mine starts the clicking, this is what I will try.

The only reason this would not work is if the problem is at the surface intersection between the lug nuts and the wheel. My guess at this point is that the chance is >50% that the problem is what I describe above, and does not involve the lug nuts.

This idea of torquing the hell out of the lug nuts is crazy.

another_lap


another lap,
The use of a gasket between the wheel and the hub is what I had considered for a while, but I can not think of a suitable material from which to make the gasket.

Anybody have any suggestions besides PVC or carbon fiber?

I don't have the "clicking" syndrome. . . yet - at nearly 5Kmiles (04/09 production). However I've been thinking on this for awhile and was thinking along the same line as 'another_lap'. He explained it so definitively. Must have an engineering degree.

So while pondering what to use as a gasket/spacer/liner, my shadetree mechanic roots kicked in while I was watching the wife use some baking sheet teflon liners on her old cookie sheets that she's had for years. The material isn't any thicker than a sheet of paper, can be cut to any size, wipes cleans with a damp cloth and seems to be very tough with a high tensile strength. The stuff is actually dishwasher safe. And inexpensive. Here's a link to a supplier: Teflon sheet (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000UZF2XK/ref=asc_df_B000UZF2XK935631?smid=AYODFZXPE76M9&tag=dealtmp369098-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B000UZF2XK)

Thought I'd order a few sheets and experiment. If it doesn't prove workable it won't be very much out-of-pocket $$. If they do work, the one hassle will be messing with the liners when removing wheels.

My only drawback is, as previously stated, I don't have the wheel clicking problem (yet), so I've got nothing to experiment on (yet).

Just my thoughts on this irritant while waiting for GM to come up with a more permanent solution. And based on my prior experiences with V1 ownership (rear differentials & radio buttons come to mind), those solutions may be a lon-n-ng time in coming - if ever.

mpouls1
10-14-09, 04:21 PM
I don't have the "clicking" syndrome. . . yet - at nearly 5Kmiles (04/09 production). However I've been thinking on this for awhile and was thinking along the same line as 'another_lap'. He explained it so definitively. Must have an engineering degree.

So while pondering what to use as a gasket/spacer/liner, my shadetree mechanic roots kicked in while I was watching the wife use some baking sheet teflon liners on her old cookie sheets that she's had for years. The material isn't any thicker than a sheet of paper, can be cut to any size, wipes cleans with a damp cloth and seems to be very tough with a high tensile strength. The stuff is actually dishwasher safe. And inexpensive. Here's a link to a supplier: Teflon sheet (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000UZF2XK/ref=asc_df_B000UZF2XK935631?smid=AYODFZXPE76M9&tag=dealtmp369098-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B000UZF2XK)

Thought I'd order a few sheets and experiment. If it doesn't prove workable it won't be very much out-of-pocket $$. If they do work, the one hassle will be messing with the liners when removing wheels.

My only drawback is, as previously stated, I don't have the wheel clicking problem (yet), so I've got nothing to experiment on (yet).

Just my thoughts on this irritant while waiting for GM to come up with a more permanent solution. And based on my prior experiences with V1 ownership (rear differentials & radio buttons come to mind), those solutions may be a lon-n-ng time in coming - if ever.

This sounds like a possible fix but I would be cautious. I talked to my friend who is a service tech and his only main concern was that he would definitely check the torque on the wheels frequently if someone was to do this.

another_lap
10-14-09, 07:45 PM
yes, frequently checking the torque is a must for any solution that involves adding a material, however thin or tough, between the wheel and rotor.

Palagius
10-24-09, 12:15 PM
I've put hardly any miles on my car since getting it back "fixed"--around 700--and the wheel clicking has gradually come back and is now nearly as bad as it was when I took it in before.

GM-4-LIFE
10-24-09, 12:28 PM
I've put hardly any miles on my car since getting it back "fixed"--around 700--and the wheel clicking has gradually come back and is now nearly as bad as it was when I took it in before.

Welcome to the club, my friend. My V has been to the dealer at least 5-6 times for the same problem and GM does not have a fix for it as of yet. All they will do is throw parts at it hoping it will work, but so far no luck on a remedy.

SG

tedcmiller
10-24-09, 04:03 PM
After reading was seems like a few hundred posts on wheel clicking, I decided to check the tightness of my lug nuts without a torque wrench. While all the nuts seemed sufficiently tight, I tighten them a little more (very little more). The clicking went away. I am sure it will come back, but my action lends credence to the theory that the clicking occurs at the wheel-hub interface.

Cleaning this interface eliminates the clicking temporarily. I might note that I tightened the lug nuts using a 1/2" breaker bar and a six-sided (not 12-point) deep impact socket. Could I remove the lug nuts on the road at this tightness? I don't know, but it probably doesn't matter due to the fact that the wheels supposedly need not be removed even with a flat due to the presence of the air-sealer pump in the trunk. Should I use a torque wrench? Probably, but I don't have one.

Run-flats would allow me to keep driving without even stopping to use an air pump or to change the wheel. That is why I prefer run-flats.

Bottom line - the clicking is more of an annoyance than a real problem. It will not go away forever until the material of the wheels or the hubs is changed. Is Cadillac going to do this for the cars that are already on the road? Probably not.

Silverspeed
10-24-09, 11:49 PM
Having the exact same problem in my C6, I find it amazing that nobody can find a solution for this problem. Maybe this has been mentioned in this thread, but has GM gotten involved in this at all, or has it just been on a dealership level?

GM-4-LIFE
10-25-09, 12:15 PM
Having the exact same problem in my C6, I find it amazing that nobody can find a solution for this problem. Maybe this has been mentioned in this thread, but has GM gotten involved in this at all, or has it just been on a dealership level?

Trust me when I say that GM is aware of the problem and involved in the quest to find a solution, but I don't think they will ever release one because it will be too expensive to have to put new revised front wheels on every V with the problem. They will have to go back to the drawing board (they are probably there now) and have the hub of the wheel cut differently where it mounts to the rotors. Once they re-design the wheel, their wheel supplier will have to crank them out at a fast pace to supply the factory as well to all of us in order for the problem to go away once and for all. Again, this is a very expensive problem for GM and I don't think they will admit that it is a wheel design because they fear how much money it is going to cost them.

SG