: car doesnt start after a aftermarket HU install and remote start



Cadillac Davelle
09-01-09, 12:09 PM
ok so heres my problem, i ended up taking my car to get the avic-F90BT installed with the following pac modules: os2-gm32 and the swi-ps, i also had noticed the car had a DEI antenna so i told the installer to find out if the car had a recent alarm, at the time i was very busy so i ended leaving the car there, when i had came back to pick up the car everything was installed, included a viper universal remote for the existing remote start the car already had that i wasnt aware about, after about a couple of months my car has been giving me issues, usually in the mornings i'll stick the key in the ignition and try to start the car and it doesnt do anythin, just leaves the key stuck in the ignition and wont turn on, so i ended up turning it on with the remote start the car has, the car has also been found with the battery completely dead a few times out of left field (not sure if this might have to do with the radio or the alarm)

last night i decided to disconnect the remote start to see if maybe it was coming from the remote start unit, but then this morning when i went to go start it, it did the samething, it wouldnt start.. after about 10-15 min the car for some reason jus turned on all the lights inside as if i had just noticed the key was in the ignition ready to start, so i started it and it was fine, so i honestly doubt it is my remote start, the only thing i can think of is that it is the radio giving me issues.. i dont want to take it back to the shop because they obviously dont know what they were doing as i was the one that had to finish installing the chime module as they couldnt do it.. is there a fix to this problem?


here are all the units i noticed already installed and that were installed:

radio:

avic -F90BT

modules:

pac: swi-ps

pac: os2-gm32

remote start:

brand: rattler (from DEI in 2003)

model: 259D

bypass modules:

DEI 555U

gm mlcg12450238 (i have no idea with this is)

Cadillac Davelle
09-01-09, 08:39 PM
anyone atleast agree with me on it being the radio? lol

osu411yamaha
09-01-09, 10:26 PM
Is this the 95 or 00 Deville you have listed?

Cadillac Davelle
09-02-09, 10:50 AM
00 deville

osu411yamaha
09-02-09, 11:20 AM
Did you try to start it while the remote start was still disconnected? Im asking, because I am wondering if this remote start / alarm has a starter kill.

Cadillac Davelle
09-02-09, 12:21 PM
yea i did, and still nothing, while i ended up taking the panels off to reconnect the remote start, some how the car just lit up and acted as if i had just in that exact moment put the key in, and thats how i turned it on, that was yesterday morning so last night i hooked up the remote start again just incase it didnt want to start this morning and of course i ended up having to remote start it today because it did the samething.. i kind of think for whatever reason it might be the pac module messed up, because i've heard in the past that when you remove the oem radio on these deville's they give weird starting problems because the radio is hooked up to the oem security system, but i figured the pac module took care of that..

osu411yamaha
09-02-09, 01:05 PM
Does this remote start also have an alarm or is just remote start? Do you use the remote start FOB to unlock your doors or do you use the original Cadi FOB to unlock?

osu411yamaha
09-02-09, 01:24 PM
I think the first step is to pull that remote start. I was looking at the schematics of it and that thing is way outdated. Much too outdated for the Cadillac you have. The Valet 551R is actually the same model. DEI sells the same alarms under many different names. Here is the link to its install guide since I couldnt find the one to yours....

http://www.directed.com/guides/manuals/ig/valet/N551R.pdf

It doesnt seem to have a starter kill. Some of those older bypasses used a spare key inside them to get the RF signal for the transponder. So you might have a spare key there for free if you decide to pull the remote start. I personally think you need to at least start here to eliminate that as a problem and then move from there.......

osu411yamaha
09-02-09, 06:32 PM
On the 00 Deville is the ignition switch in the steering column or on the dash? Heres what I am thinking thus far. Multiple possibilities and you need to narrow them down....

1.Bad remote start bypass
2.Bad remote start
3.Bad Pac module-but actually think this is unlikely
4.Ignition switch-second most likely explanation
5.Bad key-most likely explanation at this point


The reason I think the bad key explanation is most likely is because the bypass unit actually acts like a key. Some of them actually have their own rf transmitter that learns your key and then mimicks it when you remote start since the key isnt there. Others are a little more ghetto or should I say outdated to be politically correct and actually have a spare key placed inside them. Do you have a second key? If so try starting with that and come back here with your results...


First step though is run your codes. Read the sticky at the top of the deville forum on how to do this. Come back here and post all the codes. Even the ones that say history after them......

Cadillac Davelle
09-02-09, 07:47 PM
Does this remote start also have an alarm or is just remote start? Do you use the remote start FOB to unlock your doors or do you use the original Cadi FOB to unlock?


the remote start does not have an alarm, i usually use the original cadi FOB to unlock the car, the times i have used the remote start FOB the car the dash displays an error of "theft something" cant remember exactly what it display's but something to the sort of the car thinking its being stolen. by the way it also displays this when i use the remote start to turn on the car, which is why i usually try to use the orginal key FOB


my friend has the other key to the car (he parks his car infront of mine), and the same thing has happened to him also with the key he has. so i doubt it might be any of the keys, because before the remote start was reactivated again and the radio was installed, i never had this issue at all, and the worst part was that they were both done the same day.. i kind of think it might be the pac module because it doesnt have the latest firmware upgrade and it does act up on me every once in a while (the chimes sometimes have stayed on, making me have to play with the car in order to turn the beeps off) oh and besides all that i made a huge mistake of buyin the thing on ebay, even though it did appear new just that the firmware wasnt up to date..

as for the remote start, i did pull the power from it hoping it like i mentioned before and the car still did the same thing, which is why i think it might be the pac module..

because what is it exactly that the pac module does? for example what would happen if i just ended up hooking up my radio without the pac module? would there be any security bugs, considering the oem radio is some how connected to the oem security?

Cadillac Davelle
09-02-09, 08:19 PM
by the way i checked for the bypass modules on here http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/appguide/2000/Cadillac/DeVille.html no where does it mention anythin about the 555u module being a bypass? is it maybe because it was discontinued or maybe used the wrong bypass? and how would this still interfere with turning the car on with no power going to the remote start unit?

osu411yamaha
09-03-09, 09:31 AM
Well tell me this....I have some rough ideas as to what is going on, but need to know something......

Does the car start EVERY time you remote start?

BTW I really dont think its the PAC module at this point.

If the car is starting everytime you remote start, but having problems when you use the key the problem points more towards a bad ignition switch or your key. If the PAC module was bad it might possibly cause problems, but those problems would exist both when you remote start and use the key.

If the car does start every time with the remote start then I really REALLY think things are pointing towards an ignition switch. The remote starts whole point in life is to bypass the ignition switch. If the car is starting with the remote start and not the key then it would point towards a key or ignition switch. Can you see where I am coming from?

Cadillac Davelle
09-03-09, 10:44 AM
yea it starts every time with the remote start.

i definitely see where your coming from on it being the ignition switch or the key being messed up.. because it does always start with the remote start with no problems, yea it throws a message on the dash as if it were an incorrect way of starting it but it still starts the car and the key in the ignition cant..

now on it being the key i doubt it is the key only because like i mentioned earlier before my friend has a key to the car and it does the same thing to him also with his key, so im starting to doubt on it being the key and looking more at it being the ignition.. what do you think?

also the ignition is in my steering colomn, im guessing only fix for this would be buying the ignition at the "stealer" right? because if use a different switch it would be pulled from the junkyard and then will have different keys and possible issues in the future right?

also is there anyway i could possibly check the ignition switch mechanically or with an electrician or even myself?

osu411yamaha
09-03-09, 11:17 AM
Are you familiar with how to read codes? Your car has a built in code reader. Go to the Deville forum, read the sticky at the top of the page on how to pull codes, write em down, and then come back and post them. Lets take a look at those first.
I wouldnt buy the ignition switch from a junk yard. Youre likely to get a bad one from there too as it seems ignition switch problems are fairly common on these cadillacs. I just looked it up at autozone and an ignition switch is only 67 bucks new.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/parts/partsShelf.jsp?categoryDisplayName=Ignition+(Tune+ Up)&fromType=parts&fromString=search&parentId=62-0&currentPage=1&filterByKeyWord=ignition+switch&isSearchByPartNumber=false&navValue=16200189&categoryNValue=16299999&fromWhere=&itemId=189-0&displayName=Ignition+Switch&searchText=ignition+switch

First things first though. Get those codes.....

Oh, also. The remote start will cause it to throw unwanted codes. So do the steps in this order so we can get codes only related to the key.....
1.Pull the codes
2.At the end of it showing you the codes it will ask you if you want to clear them. Do this.
3.Try to keep starting it with the key until you get the problem you are having. Make sure you dont remote start it.
4.Then run the codes again and bring em back here.....

Cadillac Davelle
09-03-09, 11:30 AM
yea i know how to pull them, im going to do that next, its just weird because it only does it when it has like 8 or more hours without the car starting as if it went on some kind of sleep mode, and didnt want to wake up lol

i'll post back with the codes soon..

osu411yamaha
09-03-09, 12:13 PM
Okay I did a little more research. Apparently that 555u bypass does have a spare key inside it. This will help us rule out the possible bad key scenario. Unplug the harnesses from that bypass(no need to cut them). Take it apart and remove the spare key the installer placed inside it. This key is definitely good since it is starting your car fine.....

Cadillac Davelle
09-03-09, 12:26 PM
oh wow thats insane lmao, im definitely going to open it up later on today to see this key, but after i take out the key what does this exactly rule out? do you want me to swap the keys? because if it were the key i have, then whats the coincidence that my friends key does it also, you know what i mean? i really feel like ordering that ignition switch.. i looked it up on rockauto and they have it for less and its acdelco, what do you think? the stealer wants double the price like always!

osu411yamaha
09-03-09, 12:44 PM
I really think its the ignition switch at this point, but I hate to have you put that in and it not be that.

No need to put your old key back in. Just leave that bypass and remote start disconnected for now. It wont hurt anything. Thats why I was asking if it had a starter kill. If it had a starter kill you cant just disconnect it as it has to be there to start the car if that option is installed.

Heres my theory at this point. Your ignition switch was already on its way out. Remote starts aren't great on ignition switches anyway and can cause the terminals to burn up quicker because they shoot voltage to it when the switch is closed. So the remote start finished off your switch. The car can start with the remote start, because it bypasses the switch. It is having problems with the key, because the ignition switch is bad. Another thing about ignition switches is when they start going bad its not like other parts where they just quit working. They get real intermittent at first where they work sometimes and sometimes they dont. I just replaced mine and you can read my threads in the Seville forum about it. My problems weren't exactly like yours, but with bad ignition switches the problems they cause can vary drastically. Especially on these cars, because they use three ignition wires.....

I would go ahead and order it. I think it will fix your problem, but even if it doesn't its a fairly cheap part so at least we can rule it out as the culprit. Check your local parts store. They might have it in stock so you dont have to wait. I replaced mine with a Duralast and am happy with their product....

osu411yamaha
09-10-09, 05:04 PM
Any luck on fixing your problem yet?

Cadillac Davelle
11-10-09, 08:36 PM
Any luck on fixing your problem yet?

unfortunately no luck, sorry about the long time in between, i had ordered the ignition switch and then couldnt figure out how to take the covers off the steering column to swap out the ignition switch, and then after finally posting up that question i got a reply and finally found the time to swap it out with the new one, but no luck, the car still has the same issue so not its not the ignition switch in my case..

back to square one..

Cadillac Davelle
11-10-09, 08:48 PM
by the way i cleared the codes and drove it a couple of times, and then checked for codes and these are the ones that popped up..
0
b1327 - hist - Vehicle system voltage below 9.0 volts (just bought a brand new battery, so that isnt it..)

b3055 - history - B3055 - Key Not Present (has to be due to the lame remote start)

also wanted to mention if i havent before is that when i go to unlock the car with the caddi key fob (only sometimes) it doesnt do anything at all, it wont unlock or open the trunk at all which is usually how i know its not going to start the car.. so i end up having to open the door wit the keys and then play with the remote start key fob, ignition key and then eventually it turns on..