: used V prices coming down



haterinc
08-03-09, 10:33 AM
here is one for $54k in FL and under 5k miles. great options: 6sp, nav, ultraview, white diamond paint

but too bad it has that wing stuck on the deck lid...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330348129989&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1182

Razorecko
08-03-09, 10:37 AM
here is one for $54k in FL and under 5k miles. great options: 6sp, nav, ultraview, white diamond paint

but too bad it has that wing stuck on the deck lid...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330348129989&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1182

it would have sold already if it had recaro's

commander112
08-03-09, 10:54 AM
Damn it! I thought that they would appreciate. It was bound to start happening.

Razorecko
08-03-09, 11:15 AM
^ trust me the price is still strong- it will be especially stronger when the '10's come out with their price increase. You should see the horrible hit the c63 amg guys are taking. Scary. I'm talking about dealers marking off like 15k msrp on '09 c63's. Cars that were like 75k new are going for like low 60's and the used market for them is like 55k for ones with 2-3 thousand miles. Thats like a 20k hit ! that'd be like our used v's going for 45k

haterinc
08-03-09, 11:26 AM
i agree w raz, the 10's will actually help the 2nd year market because although the dealers might have to take a tax hit with them sitting on the lot past dec, i still think they're not going to unload them with the 10's going up in price with basically no new features. now if they'd add that cylinder shut down feature for improved gas like the m6s and '10 escalades are getting maybe that would help with Obama's green push lol

i'd love to see someone actually get the cash for clunkers incentive on a V! hahahahaha

Gary Wells
08-03-09, 11:46 AM
I think that it is too early in the game and the economy too unstable to pre-determine the value of our V's. Even in a good market and a stable economy I would not let the bidding or asking price of 1 car determine the outcome of such. The V-2's have only been out a year, definitely not long enough to glean any value statistics from.
I think that the CTS-V's will do OK, at least for a while, in retaining some value. The fact that GM raised the MSRP of them and the fact that dealers are not knocking off a lot even on the left overs and the fact that GM seems to be keeping a close eye of the quantity manufactured versus the quantity they think can sell says something positive in itself.

Florian
08-03-09, 12:49 PM
theres plenty still sitting on the lots, your Vs will depreciate...expect mid-high 40s next year for resale...


F

dqw1
08-03-09, 01:14 PM
I've been watching the price creep down little by little on used V's. I should have some decent choices by February.

Gary Wells
08-03-09, 01:33 PM
theres plenty still sitting on the lots, your Vs will depreciate...expect mid-high 40s next year for resale...


F

About how many do you think are left on the lots?
As compared to about how many CTS-V's were manufactured this year?

mik2718
08-03-09, 01:40 PM
I plan to keep on enjoying mine for a few years. I bought it because it was the car I wanted and potential resale value was not a consideration. If it turns out to still be worth a pretty penny when I'm ready to part with it, that will be a bonus.

There's a dealer in central TX offering one with almost 12K miles for $59,991 (auto, Recaro, suede, nav, sunroof, painted wheels).

Florian
08-03-09, 01:52 PM
About how many do you think are left on the lots?
As compared to about how many CTS-V's were manufactured this year?

At the price point they are selling for, I bet 25% are left on the lot (I'd ask Scott/Tony)
There are 2 dealers that are local to me. One has 3 on his lot (and have been there minimum 4 months) and the other one has 5 on his lot and they have been there as long as I can remember....
People arent spending the dough.

F

RWFJR
08-03-09, 02:02 PM
I kinda like that spolier. Need one in Thunder Gray. Where can I get one and get it installed...? $$$?

Gary Wells
08-03-09, 02:14 PM
At the price point they are selling for, I bet 25% are left on the lot (I'd ask Scott/Tony)
There are 2 dealers that are local to me. One has 3 on his lot (and have been there minimum 4 months) and the other one has 5 on his lot and they have been there as long as I can remember....
People arent spending the dough.

F

OK, 25% of what?

SLPR 6.0L
08-03-09, 02:35 PM
I plan to keep on enjoying mine for a few years. I bought it because it was the car I wanted and potential resale value was not a consideration. If it turns out to still be worth a pretty penny when I'm ready to part with it, that will be a bonus.

There's a dealer in central TX offering one with almost 12K miles for $59,991 (auto, Recaro, suede, nav, sunroof, painted wheels).

Good luck getting that. I plan on buying a 2 to 3 thousand mile car for at or below 50 in a year or two, and I plan on a 2010

CadV
08-03-09, 02:54 PM
Wait till the new model comes out. In a couple years the price will drop considerably.

CadV
08-03-09, 02:57 PM
I plan to keep on enjoying mine for a few years. I bought it because it was the car I wanted and potential resale value was not a consideration. If it turns out to still be worth a pretty penny when I'm ready to part with it, that will be a bonus.

There's a dealer in central TX offering one with almost 12K miles for $59,991 (auto, Recaro, suede, nav, sunroof, painted wheels).

60 is what I paid for that exact config, brand new with GMS. When the new model comes out prices will go down then after another year it will drop in the 40 range like Florian said.

OldRoadDawg
08-03-09, 03:29 PM
Actually, I've found the asking prices on used (uh... I mean previously owned) 09s to be holding steady for the past few months.
Before buying a new one, I was considering buying used and had been tracking the prices for as many as 57 of them. I had a spread sheet that broke them down by color, options, price and location.
The availability of used Vs seems to have lessened over the past month. Currently I only find about 48 'previously owned' 09s for sale, with the lowest listed for $51,995 and the highest at $69,990.

Anyway, A V with the color and options I wanted never surfaced within the distance I was willing to travel, or the asking price was nearly that of a new one. . . so, with the GMS pricing and $1K rebate - I bought new.

The white one that the OP mentioned that is listed on e-bay for $54,995, has also been listed on autotrader for $57,995 for several weeks. The dealer asking prices haven't moved downward by much. Interestingly, a few dealers actually increased their asking price. (??)

If the predicted price increase for the 2010 model becomes reality, then the used ones should hold value for a little longer. Sure would be nice if they don't nosedive like the V1 prices did.

Florian
08-03-09, 03:34 PM
OK, 25% of what?

total production.


F

haterinc
08-03-09, 03:42 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadillac-09-Certified-Silver-CTS-V-CD-Sunroof-Leather-Htd-Seats_W0QQitemZ380144157842QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_C ars_Trucks?hash=item58825b8492&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14


another one
thunder grey, 6sp, no nav, ultra roof, reg seats, 8k miles
$51k

Gary Wells
08-03-09, 03:53 PM
total production.


F

OK, what do you estimate total production of the '09 CTS-V's to be?

Jpjr
08-03-09, 04:16 PM
theres plenty still sitting on the lots, your Vs will depreciate...expect mid-high 40s next year for resale...


F

This thread is funny.

Said in the nicest possible way, the only people that think a production cars value will go up or stay the same after a year of depreciation either 1) own the vehicle already, 2) are trying to sell the vehicle, 3) build parts for the vehicle or otherwise have some interest in the price not going down.

The price of used V's is going down people... and it will go down fast. Almost as fast as the market for high end homes. Quality never trumps good old supply and demand.

Florian
08-03-09, 04:18 PM
+1 what he said.



F

Jpjr
08-03-09, 04:20 PM
Actually, I've found the asking prices on used (uh... I mean previously owned) 09s to be holding steady for the past few months.
Before buying a new one, I was considering buying used and had been tracking the prices for as many as 57 of them. I had a spread sheet that broke them down by color, options, price and location.
The availability of used Vs seems to have lessened over the past month. Currently I only find about 48 'previously owned' 09s for sale, with the lowest listed for $51,995 and the highest at $69,990.

Anyway, A V with the color and options I wanted never surfaced within the distance I was willing to travel, or the asking price was nearly that of a new one. . . so, with the GMS pricing and $1K rebate - I bought new.

The white one that the OP mentioned that is listed on e-bay for $54,995, has also been listed on autotrader for $57,995 for several weeks. The dealer asking prices haven't moved downward by much. Interestingly, a few dealers actually increased their asking price. (??)

If the predicted price increase for the 2010 model becomes reality, then the used ones should hold value for a little longer. Sure would be nice if they don't nosedive like the V1 prices did.



The *MARKET* decides the transaction price! Not the dealer!

If the market is not willing to pay more for the car now, they are not going to be willing to pay more for the same car in the future. It's as simple as supply and demand. Supply is going up... as they build more... but you have to assume an equal increase in demand for the price to stay the same or go up. It never happens.

Gary Wells
08-03-09, 05:06 PM
..............................
Interestingly, a few dealers actually increased their asking price. (??)....................


I believe this statement to be true, and have personally seen this happen before, but not necessarily in the car market.
Years back, I used to collect handguns, and I became quite familiar with most of the dealers at most of the gun shows in the So Cali area. I have personally seen some dealers raise a price on a gun or object until it eventually sells, generally to somebody not very aware of what it was priced at previous shows. They also used the "regional market adjustment" policy somewhat successfully, raising the price in areas that they felt were flush, and lowering their prices in areas with less "pocket personality". Not saying that it happens as a general rule in the car market, but I am sure that it happens upon occasion.

Razorecko
08-03-09, 05:28 PM
lol the prices are not going to tanks as fast as some of you think. If you go around the forums there are more than a few people just waiting for a flood of used v's get into the market. Warranted it wont hold used car pricing like a mkiv supra unless its discontiuned by 2012 but only time will tell

Rolex
08-03-09, 06:07 PM
I've been watching the price creep down little by little on used V's. I should have some decent choices by February.

:yeah:

Next spring you'll be staring at low mileage CPO cars in the mid 40s.


lol the prices are not going to tanks as fast as some of you think.....

We shall see. The value of limited production GM super cars I can think of (GMC Typhoon, Grand National GNX, 89' Trans Am turbo) that were bought and actually driven didn't hold up all that great. If you have the discipline to own these cars and actually not put miles on them you may eventually see some appreciation. IMO that's no fun at all. The whole idea of owning a car like this and parking it in a garage with a cover on it pains me. Cars are made to be driven and have fun with. The value of these cars will depreciate just like any other if you do that. Look for 25-30% depreciation after a year of ownership, depending on mileage and condition of the car.

GPat599
08-03-09, 06:57 PM
I just bought a hard loaded black on black auto for $55,000. It has 2,600 miles on it. I feel like I got a fair price on it, I don't think it was a steal by any means. One thing you guys are forgetting is our 100,000 mile power-train warranty - To me that was a huge selling point. What other ultra high performance car offers that? I feel like this will keep us from getting hosed like some of the E63 and M5 guys are right now, 100,000 drive-train warranty is a nice selling point to have at 30-40K miles.

Nutz
08-03-09, 07:10 PM
Hmmm. Looks like the car I used at Towell Cadillac for the dreaded "drone" thread.
Of course, spoiler added.
YouTube - 2009 Cts-V manual shift exhaust effect

Jpjr
08-03-09, 07:12 PM
I just bought a hard loaded black on black auto for $55,000. It has 2,600 miles on it. I feel like I got a fair price on it, I don't think it was a steal by any means. One thing you guys are forgetting is our 100,000 mile power-train warranty - To me that was a huge selling point. What other ultra high performance car offers that? I feel like this will keep us from getting hosed like some of the E63 and M5 guys are right now, 100,000 drive-train warranty is a nice selling point to have at 30-40K miles.


Not to beat a dead horse but production cars have become commodities just like homes. It is really supply and demand that sets the price. Leather, warranties, rims, etc. are similar to countertops, fixtures, tiles, etc. in a home. They get you that incremental price increase when the market is highly liquid (like 2006), but don't do chit for a car (or home) in market like we are in today.

Now I am not saying that the residual on the new V2 will free fall, because the car is a decent value at its price point (i.e., it is priced well). I'm just saying it will fall fast because the luxary car market is a much smaller pie than it was a few years ago. To get demand from those former luxary buyers you have to drop the price into their new range.

CVP33
08-03-09, 08:43 PM
New 2009 V's with NAV and sunroof - GMS with $1,000 off can be had for $56K. No bargain here yet. I'm with the rest of you. Wait until next year and we'll see some in the 40's. Reminds me of when the dealers starting selling new ZL1, Z06's for under $60K.

Gary Wells
08-03-09, 08:56 PM
I don't see these cars falling off a cliff price-wise like the C6ZO6's did & are. I just don't think that there are as many of these ('09's) not sold yet as in the case of the '07, '08, & '09 ZO6's. I don't see 0% down & 0% financing in the near future either. Maybe 0% financing with a healthy down somewhere in the future, but not 0% & 0%.

CVP33
08-03-09, 08:59 PM
I don't see these cars falling off a cliff price-wise like the C6ZO6's did & are. I just don't think that there are as many of these ('09's) not sold yet as in the case of the '07, '08, & '09 ZO6's. I don't see 0% down & 0% financing in the near future either. Maybe 0% financing with a healthy down somewhere in the future, but not 0% & 0%.

Not off a cliff, just down to reality. If you can buy new for $56K, then used should be in the 20% off vicinity. So I'm predicting mid 40's by this time next year.

Gary Wells
08-03-09, 09:22 PM
Not off a cliff, just down to reality. If you can buy new for $56K, then used should be in the 20% off vicinity. So I'm predicting mid 40's by this time next year.
I wish you well, but I will say this. I watched this game play out over on one of the more popular Corvette Forums for quite some time, and then I realized that there were far more buyers than there were sellers, (at least in the way of slightly used to new discounted '07, '08, & '09 ZO6's) Everybody buying was hoping that the purchase price would fall to the floor, & that there were plenty of ZO6 owners just waiting in line to give away their cars cheep. It never happened, other than a rare occasion, and most of the hopeful greedy buyers are still waiting for their ship to come in. There just aren't that many of these cars to go around that cheap and most of the people that have purchased these cars are not going to be broke tomorrow. You will see this happen over here also. Come to think about it, it already has. You're not the 1st person to denote that you are in line for a low mileage '09 in next years time frame for mid upper 40's. And keep in mind that some of the ones that you see advertised as too good to be true, are just that. They really are too good to be true. Pretty much, you will get what you pay for. Good luck in your endeavors.

chukk
08-03-09, 09:44 PM
Its best not to even think about the resale as it wasn't an investment. Drive and enjoy. Who knows down the road. I have a Syclone that I'm getting ready to sell and its held up pretty well over the years, much better than the other daily drivers (Odyssey, Vibe). Time will tell.

Gary Wells
08-03-09, 10:09 PM
I have had a total of 5 turbo Buicks, including the 26K original mile white T-Type that I own now, but would never consider selling it. It was a 6 page feature car in the May '09 edition of "Hemming's Muscle machines". I purchased it from the original owner in '03, garaged, covered, & pristine with 8100 miles on the clock, all documented. I gave him what he paid for it when he bought it new, $18K, which was about top of the game in those days. Regardless to say, I am very proud of that car today.

CVP33
08-03-09, 10:22 PM
Good luck in your endeavors.

With regard to the Z06's. I saw at least 8 two year old Z06's sell on the forum for below $50K. Especially when the dealers like Kerbeck started offering them for $60K new. I'm a member at Corvette forum as well (same screen name) and followed their prices closely.

A couple of things here that I think you're missing on the V. The dealers are already giving these cars away way below sticker as evidenced by the GMS + $1,000 rebate. The $56,000 example for a new V is real and that's with sunroof and NAV. This is $8,000 off sticker price and all in their first year of release. This took two and half years to happen to the Z06's. A year from now the 2011's will be coming. Don't you think that another 20% in depreciation is plausible for a now 2 year old V? I do.

As for demand, if there were all this pent up demand and low supply why would dealers be offering GMS + $1,000 which equates to devaluing the car by 13% just to move it off the showroom floor? I don't think the demand is as high as you think and probably is somewhere around 25% of the Z06, maybe lower.

The good thing about this thread is that we can come back to it in August of 2010 and post all the links to cars available on ebay and auto trader in the $45K range. I think we'll find more than a few.

Gary Wells
08-03-09, 10:41 PM
We'll be able to see down the road. & the demand that I was referring to was the demand over on CF.COM for very low mileage previously owned C6ZO6's, not CTS-V's. But I do think that the CTS-V's will go through the same cycle. More people will want extremely low mileage previously owned CTS-V's for extremely low prices than are willing to part with them. I also have researched some of those extremely low priced '07, '08, & '09 C6ZO6's and have found more that 1 that came with a story. It's quite trendy ov er there to buy a new C6ZO6, install a blower, beat the hell out of it on the track & street, autocross, & so-forth & then remove the blower and bolt-ons, clean it, polish it, & sell it as a pristine low mileage Z without the new owner knowing or being aware of the history of the car.

CVP33
08-04-09, 06:14 PM
We'll be able to see down the road. & the demand that I was referring to was the demand over on CF.COM for very low mileage previously owned C6ZO6's, not CTS-V's. But I do think that the CTS-V's will go through the same cycle. More people will want extremely low mileage previously owned CTS-V's for extremely low prices than are willing to part with them. I also have researched some of those extremely low priced '07, '08, & '09 C6ZO6's and have found more that 1 that came with a story. It's quite trendy ov er there to buy a new C6ZO6, install a blower, beat the hell out of it on the track & street, autocross, & so-forth & then remove the blower and bolt-ons, clean it, polish it, & sell it as a pristine low mileage Z without the new owner knowing or being aware of the history of the car.

Agreed. The ones I was watching were the certified cars from reputable dealers. The first used Z06 I saw to break the $50K barrier came from Les Standford in Dearborn, MI. That car sat for 3 months before he sold it. I'm just surprised to see the CTS-V being marked down so early.

Gary Wells
08-05-09, 05:17 AM
I think that the economy played a major role in GM's decision as to what to discount, when to do it, and how deep to cut. Manufacturer's and dealer's discounts will reduce our resale value down the road considerably, just as it has done for the vette set. Manufacturer discounts more than dealer discounts play a major role in this value reduction. Even though I did not buy the Cad as an investment, I would not like to see it's value whacked any more than necessary.

Razorecko
08-05-09, 11:43 AM
I think that the economy played a major role in GM's decision as to what to discount, when to do it, and how deep to cut. Manufacturer's and dealer's discounts will reduce our resale value down the road considerably, just as it has done for the vette set. Manufacturer discounts more than dealer discounts play a major role in this value reduction. Even though I did not buy the Cad as an investment, I would not like to see it's value whacked any more than necessary.

You have to remember that the V has ALOT more amenities than a z06 that will help it retain value. Heated/cooled seats ( if you have recaro ) awesome nav, usb port for music, magnetic suspension, alot of these items help retain great resale value. Remember we dont just have a car with a big motor.