: Tracked the V on Saturday....whoa!!!



SlvrBullIT
08-03-09, 01:08 AM
So I went to Harris Hill Road course for the second time, this time to see if they'd let me take the V on the course (didn't the first time, I was still in break in). The owner of the track was an old SCCA autocross buddy of my fathers so he said absolutely and jumped in and away we went!
He was impressed in the cars performance, albeit even though I'm not well experienced in the V, much less anything over 300HP. He said I did well and the car was flat amazing!!!! Took the course with another instructor there and got faster... Both said I didn't need supervision and let me go at it alone if I wanted too. The instructor took it out with me as a passenger and really pushed it..... to experience the car, plus I wanted to see if he could spot any weakness in the car that might be a problem, HOLY HANNAH :2thumbs: all I have to say is it was the best thing you can probably do with your clothes on :bouncy:

Low and behold.... an R8 shows up at the track :bouncy::bouncy::bouncy:
They do a few laps.... then ask if I want to go out and join them....:2thumbup:
Oh yes, after doing one run (conservatively) early in the morning, then seeing how it can be done when taken by an experienced driver and me witnessing, I was like....okay lets see how a V can do against an R8 :rolleyes:

Let us say, the R8 never got away from me, he started on the track first, and I was not even close to being shaken from his arse. I wanted to pass him on several of the straights because he had no guts out of the corner like the V did, but he never signaled so I dare not push my luck. The R8 is smooth and a VERY nice car, I just couldn't believe what the V is capable of until someone "showed" me what it means to push this car.....

the longest straight is 962ft going up hill the last 1/4 and heads into a 90 off camber right turn so its balls out out of the bottom turn and hard break into the right turn from the outside left. Let me tell you the brakes are unbelievable, most cars can get to 80-90 from the bottom hairpin and up the straight away before standing on the breaks and into the right hand turn at the top of the hill and hold on to try and not under-steer the corner. The instructor got to 105ish at the crest before standing on the brakes. I pushed it further and did just under 110 and still the car can plum stop on an ant in the middle of the turn if I had to! Obviously I haven't mastered the track in one day but I think 120 is not out of the question because every single time I hit that corner I have over braked or braked way too early and am slow in the turn! The car just is out of this world fun...even on the stock PS2's that I had and were slightly under-inflated, didn't roll a sidewall but I could feel the lumpyness when taking corners hard......

Now should I get 18's with R compound tires or 20's? What's the widest wheel and tire I can get without any problems? What would be the optimum wheel and tire set I should get...hmmm?

GD it was fun!!!!

annie
08-03-09, 01:27 AM
:drool: I could only dream.

Short-Throw
08-03-09, 01:40 AM
Great write, thanks for sharing.

The V is fast, but considering it's weight, it does remarkably well.

Also, yes, the brakes are awesome, but remember brakes are only as good as the tire footprint. What tire pressure did you run cold/hot?

As far a R compounds, be careful as most are not compliant with a heavier car like the V, meaning they will not last very long. You'll also have to dial in a lot more camber.

Mike

SlvrBullIT
08-03-09, 02:42 AM
Tires were around 30 cold only heated up to 31-32 ish after the heats, kind of weird since I can gain like 7lbs on the highway. I've since upped the pressure to 35 cold.

If R-compounds are somewhat questionable then I may just get the hankooks or dunlops.

Guys there said I should get 18's for wheels, I was thinking 20's.....kind of confused there too.
I know 18's weigh less than 20's but I thought then the sidewalls were "taller" whiles 20's may be slightly heaver in forged wheels but the profile was "shorter" so the sidewall could take a beating better????

jvp
08-03-09, 10:16 AM
Guys there said I should get 18's for wheels, I was thinking 20's.....kind of confused there too.

Unless you get them custom built, standard SAE-built 18s aren't going to fit around the front calipers on your V. A certain vendor on this forum "claims" he has 18s available that fit the car, but every time he's asked about the specifics, he doesn't answer. Draw your own conclusions from that...

Right now, the only R-compounds that'll properly fit the V are 19" Hoosiers. But as Mike appropriately points out, the V is a little too heavy for them. They'll wear out faster than they should, and possibly go greasy on you while you're on the track. And, to boot, Hoosiers are really 'spensive.

Also, Mike's right, the car needs as much negative camber as can be dialed in. The problem with doing that is it'll only help turn-in a tiny bit, but will destroy your street tires if you run the same alignment. The car desperately needs a wider tire up front to help initial turn-in. But, there just isn't enough room under the fenders.

jas

Short-Throw
08-03-09, 10:53 AM
Tires were around 30 cold only heated up to 31-32 ish after the heats, kind of weird since I can gain like 7lbs on the highway. I've since upped the pressure to 35 cold.

Guys there said I should get 18's for wheels, I was thinking 20's.....kind of confused there too.
I know 18's weigh less than 20's but I thought then the sidewalls were "taller" whiles 20's may be slightly heaver in forged wheels but the profile was "shorter" so the sidewall could take a beating better????


Unless you get them custom built, standard SAE-built 18s aren't going to fit around the front calipers on your V.
jas

Quite odd that you only picked up 1-2 PSI. This suggests that you were either not driving the car very hard or had a wrong starting or ending pressure. Were you looking at the DIC or using a gauge? 35 cold is way too high.

As JVP pointed out, good luck trying to find an 18" wheel to fit over the BBK. Save your 20" wheel ideas for the Friday night car show, not the track.


Mike

Razorecko
08-03-09, 11:22 AM
I would actually suggest looking into the Mercedes Benz forums. They are the only comparable manufacturer that has made brakes as large as on the V and the oem fitaments are very similiar. If you wanted a straight out of the box buy for 18's that would be the place to find it.

Z06ified
08-03-09, 12:19 PM
I wouldn't bother with R-compound tires if you're new to road courses and driving the V on a track. While R-compound tires are definitely stickier and will improve lap times, they are much less forgiving at the limit, and will give you less feedback and warning when they are ready to break away. The stock PS2s are excellent (albeit expensive), and you should stick with those until you have a lot of track time under your belt.

wait4me
08-03-09, 12:56 PM
Guys i have some $400 dollar a piece 18 inch rims that fit the V perfectly front and rear. They are OZ lightweight ones that are about 17lbs each. Major chopping of rotating weight. They fit the hoosiers really nicely. Also lower the stance of the car for lower center of gravity if you use the smaller profile. Also a plus is, when you hit something or break something, the rims are the cheapest part you will replace. :)

I can get them in several colors, but most people are just picking black like the ones i have on my track car. There is a youtube vid showing them on my red one i think if you want to see them.

rjoffe
08-03-09, 01:25 PM
Guys i have some $400 dollar a piece 18 inch rims that fit the V perfectly front and rear.

Width for rims, and which tires are your running ?

Seattle CTS-V
08-03-09, 09:06 PM
I wouldn't bother with R-compound tires if you're new to road courses and driving the V on a track. While R-compound tires are definitely stickier and will improve lap times, they are much less forgiving at the limit, and will give you less feedback and warning when they are ready to break away. The stock PS2s are excellent (albeit expensive), and you should stick with those until you have a lot of track time under your belt.


I could not agree more. I tried Hoosier R-cmpds on my '05 V and posted up slower lap times than the Toyo T1-Rs I had run before. The R's grip really well but they don't forecast the limits of grip very well. They stick, stick, stick and then - whoops, they let go. No noise whatsoever to let you know they're at their limits. You scare yourself a couple of times and then you lose confidence and then the Porsches you just embarrassed start passing you again.

SlvrBullIT
08-03-09, 09:55 PM
Quite odd that you only picked up 1-2 PSI. This suggests that you were either not driving the car very hard or had a wrong starting or ending pressure. Were you looking at the DIC or using a gauge? 35 cold is way too high.

Mike


Starting pressure was DIC 29-30 but at gauge measurement it read 31lbs even, so heated up it should be 32 or higher, which is the recommended pressure. I was surprised also the tires didn't heat up as much. However...... I did do cooldown laps and the external temps were 85 degF overcast. So the pavement was really nice and the DIC only registered 2 or more pounds up after the run was over, cooldown laps, and parked. I didn't get gauge measurements. The DIC is non-linear accurate apparently 5lb increase after heat up doesn't mean 5lb gauge increase......

When I first got the car, the tires were 35lbs

Short-Throw
08-03-09, 11:30 PM
Starting pressure was DIC 29-30 but at gauge measurement it read 31lbs even, so heated up it should be 32 or higher, which is the recommended pressure. I was surprised also the tires didn't heat up as much. However...... I did do cooldown laps and the external temps were 85 degF overcast.

A few cool down laps would bring the tires down 2-3 pounds, which would still suggest you picked up very little psi. I'm sure with more seat time you'll be more comfortable pushing harder. Also with a straight shorter than 1000 feet, high speeds will not be seen and picking up psi will not be as extreme. It also means not a lot of time to get cooling to your brakes like at VIR or RA.

Usually my students pick up 1-3 psi in the Novice group, 4-8 in the Intermediate group and 9-12 in the Advanced group.

BTW, what safety mode did you run the car in?

Mike

marktanner
08-04-09, 01:11 AM
I looked at the Tire Rack website this morning, and a tire that might fit your needs is the Pirelli Corsa System, available in the stock 19" sizes. It's a DOT approved R compound tire that is more street oriented than some other R brands. It has a deeper tread than some, but not as deep as the PS2, and a very cool looking tread pattern that works pretty good in the wet, though it is not great in standing water. Still much better than other R tires in the wet. They are not quite as grippy as, say the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups, but they're way better in the rain. They are still reasonably progressive at the limit, do have higher grip when warmed up on the track, and have more stable and shorter braking than the OEM tires.They will also hold up to abuse much better than the PS2s, and won't fade after hard lapping, or chunk, either. They last surprisingly well, and longer than their rating would imply. They are a bit more expensive than the PS2s, bit they can be run all the time, so there is no need for another set of wheels and tires, tools, and a way to transport them to the track and back.

These tires are OEM on the track-worthy Ferrari Scuderia and Challenge Stradale, and also the Porsche 996 GT3-RS. I ran the standard Corsas on my 911 and GT3 on both the street and track, and was pretty happy with them. They were not the fastest in the dry, but I could safely run in the wet, and didn't have to change tires to go home, either. Overall, I think it's a pretty good compromise to accommodate occasional track work.

SlvrBullIT
08-04-09, 02:35 AM
A few cool down laps would bring the tires down 2-3 pounds, which would still suggest you picked up very little psi. I'm sure with more seat time you'll be more comfortable pushing harder. Also with a straight shorter than 1000 feet, high speeds will not be seen and picking up psi will not be as extreme. It also means not a lot of time to get cooling to your brakes like at VIR or RA.

Usually my students pick up 1-3 psi in the Novice group, 4-8 in the Intermediate group and 9-12 in the Advanced group.

BTW, what safety mode did you run the car in?

Mike


The course is 1.8 miles with 11 turns, 3 straights, the longest is 962 ft, the others are slightly shorter.
Yes indeed I'm a n00b :shhh: as far as this car is concerned. Really I want a second set of wheels so I don't beat too much on the tires I put on the 19" wheels. 18" & 20" tires seems less expensive then 19" tires, hence why I ask...not so much in the ZOMG I'm Michael Schumacher NOW I need uber wheels and tires or I'm gonna cry!!!! :rant2:

I wouldn't feel so bad if I totally melted my track tires, but I would if I had only 1 set and have to limp to the store and get another tire just to get home... if you get what I mean. The track has space for members to store their track tires... kind of want to take advantage of that...... :bouncy:

V-Love
08-04-09, 08:05 PM
Enjoyed the write up. Another great thing about tracking the V.....
....you can throw a couple friends in the back and put on a movie.

SlvrBullIT
08-04-09, 09:07 PM
Guys i have some $400 dollar a piece 18 inch rims that fit the V perfectly front and rear. They are OZ lightweight ones that are about 17lbs each. Major chopping of rotating weight. They fit the hoosiers really nicely. Also lower the stance of the car for lower center of gravity if you use the smaller profile. Also a plus is, when you hit something or break something, the rims are the cheapest part you will replace. :)

I can get them in several colors, but most people are just picking black like the ones i have on my track car. There is a youtube vid showing them on my red one i think if you want to see them.

Are these forged or cast wheels?

SlvrBullIT
08-04-09, 09:13 PM
A few cool down laps would bring the tires down 2-3 pounds, which would still suggest you picked up very little psi. I'm sure with more seat time you'll be more comfortable pushing harder. Also with a straight shorter than 1000 feet, high speeds will not be seen and picking up psi will not be as extreme. It also means not a lot of time to get cooling to your brakes like at VIR or RA.

Usually my students pick up 1-3 psi in the Novice group, 4-8 in the Intermediate group and 9-12 in the Advanced group.

BTW, what safety mode did you run the car in?

Mike

I had VSC in comp mode, tranny in sport, ride in sport.

wait4me
08-04-09, 09:34 PM
The are OZ racing superleggra I believe are the names. They are forged solid 1 piece racing rims i believe.

SlvrBullIT
08-04-09, 10:45 PM
The are OZ racing superleggra I believe are the names. They are forged solid 1 piece racing rims i believe.

I see Ultraleggera on their site...no superleggra :hmm:

onephatguy
08-05-09, 07:13 AM
Would of been great if you had video of the event. Good story though.

SlvrBullIT
08-05-09, 07:23 PM
Would of been great if you had video of the event. Good story though.

Have to take someone with me and man a camera, I'm going back and the place has a dearth of exotics that come round... mostly in the fall and spring.... I'm waiting on the guy with the 599 GTB and Enzo to show up so I can dr00l :worship:

Another member has a GTO with full camera stand inside the vehicle so I might get him to shoot some footage.