: Destroying a N* Engine



Edahall
08-01-09, 10:15 AM
What a total waste!!!.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/X0IcIxhd8ks&hl=es&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/X0IcIxhd8ks&hl=es&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

eyekandyboats.inc
08-01-09, 12:29 PM
thats pathetic.
thank goodness the program ended.

Submariner409
08-01-09, 01:17 PM
Brought to you by the people who want to convert to Socialism and overhaul health care.

Glad everyone likes Change.

............and the program has not ended...........Nancy Pelosi and her band of thugs, with White House approval, are rapidly scratching for another $2B to dump into the program.

Sadly, this smacks of a similar "cash for guns" program in which priceless collector's items are destroyed by welding and crushing.

tman2093
08-01-09, 01:27 PM
That engine fought its hardest. Valiant effort old friend.

97EldoCoupe
08-01-09, 01:59 PM
This is the most pathetic and sad thing I've ever seen. This is right after animal cruelty on my list. A perfect running engine, destroyed. So how much gas was wasted and polution created to do this? Anyone? It would have been better for the environment to simply "stop running" the engine.

How about the people who could NOT afford a new car, you know, that car would probably have still been useful to someone.

It's one thing to do this for fun and kicks, but another thing altogether to do this on a daily basis.

SouthernCountry
08-01-09, 02:41 PM
Wth!!!!!!!

ryannel2003
08-01-09, 04:24 PM
That is so pathetic... the original Aurora was (and still is) an amazing looking car. I'm sure whoever owned it before couldn't afford upkeep on the car and traded it for some little japanese tin can. It's unfortunate.

Destroyer
08-01-09, 11:07 PM
That is so pathetic... the original Aurora was (and still is) an amazing looking car. I'm sure whoever owned it before couldn't afford upkeep on the car and traded it for some little japanese tin can. It's unfortunate.
Yeah, he/she might discover what the word "reliability" means and never buy another American car.

Destroyer
08-01-09, 11:10 PM
This is the most pathetic and sad thing I've ever seen. This is right after animal cruelty on my list. Blowing a cars motor up is akin to animal cruelty??????? It's nuts and bolts man, there is no sadness in that.

Edahall
08-01-09, 11:27 PM
That mixture that goes in the engine to cause it to seize up. Do you know how to get some?
Was thinking of sending some up to the White House. Those folks need to be "seized up" for a while.

hendrob
08-02-09, 12:51 AM
christ almighty ..... we have a similar program in canada but only 1000 for a car, anycar , no qualifying by mpg or age, but our auto recyclers can resell any part of the car including the engine !!

codewize
08-02-09, 09:01 AM
I said this in another post as well. The government just took 2 billion dollars that it doesn't have to keep this program going.

If you look at the whole thing and read between the lines you'll soon discover that the program was designed to destroy the American auto industry. But now that the government owns the automaker, no one can complain about it.

The guidelines are devised in such a way that people will be trading in all their American made cars that have been reliable for years, and buying imports because they're the only things that fit the bill.

I agree with most of you. That was a perfectly good car to someone in need. I also thing there are going to be tons of people who can't afford a new car to buy one anyway.

This program is going to cost more and cause more problems that any good that could come of it.

I told everyone BEFORE election that Obama was on a mission to single handedly destroy this country. Wake up folks, I'm telling you now there's more to come. Don't be surprised the day you find out that we're completely powerless and being taken over.

Submariner409
08-02-09, 10:41 AM
I believe the product used to seize the engine is "sodium silicate", commonly known as "water glass". Bought in a syrupy liquid form it can be painted on various surfaces to form a tough, impermeable coating. Once it dries it becomes exactly like solid glass - brittle and sharp, and no solvent on earth will remove it. 4 quarts of that stuff in an engine and you would be unable to even disassemble the remains.

Used to be able to get it at drug stores - we used it as a covering for woven asbestos exhaust pipe wrapping for turbocharger applications.

hendrob
08-02-09, 11:46 AM
I sell used auto parts on Ebay to my American friends, PLEASE dont let your govt. take ALL the used cars off the road, I'll be outta business !!!!!!!! =))) www.sherrison.com

97EldoCoupe
08-03-09, 12:07 PM
Destroyer, I love animals. Dogs, cats, anything but rodents and snakes. I would never mistreat an animal. But.... I AM a car nut. I love engines and cars too. The engineering and design and hard work that went into building the cars, destroyed by purposely pouring that crap in the engine. This isn't a matter of nuts and bolts, it's a matter of disrespect to the american automakers and Oldsmobile's flagship car.

I watched my 1981 Pontiac Catalina coupe get crushed. Yeah, it's only steel, glass and plastic, but it's also art and engineering.

The Mona Lisa is nothing but canvas and paint. So why not cut it up and burn it? Same deal.

mikelawson
08-03-09, 12:52 PM
This is why other countries hate America. This has to be one of the most wasteful things we can do as humans. There are a lot of poor families here and abroad that would be elated to have the cars we are destroying FOR NO REASON. I realize the point is supposedly to replace guzzlers with fuel efficient vehicles and to get polluters off the streets, but most mid 90's and newer are efficient and fairly smog free. Instead of starting @ 1984 they should be trying to rid the streets of POS vehicles from mid 70's to late 80's before cars had extensive PCM's to regulate things.
Destroyer the more you post idiotic things, the less credible you become. As a rebuilder of Northstar engines, I can attest that they are very reliable. Most cars will need the head gaskets replaced at one time or another and once this has been repaired on the Northstars, these cars can go another 100k miles without needing timing chains, tensioners, rings, bearings, etc. Why is it OK for a Lexus owner to get a 2000k repair bill for "routine" maintenance like timing belts and water pump replacements and all be OK, but a Cadillac needs a once in a lifetime 2000k repair and it's a piece of junk. Do your research and you'll see just how misguided your claims really are.

Krashed989
08-04-09, 04:51 PM
Holy crap this is stupid. Why was this method chosen? Why not just strip the engine and have the metal recycled. It would be MUCH less wasteful and it would put a few dollars into the junkyards hands for recycling.

Edahall
08-04-09, 06:42 PM
Holy crap this is stupid. Why was this method chosen? Why not just strip the engine and have the metal recycled. It would be MUCH less wasteful and it would put a few dollars into the junkyards hands for recycling.

That's because the U.S still has too much borrowed money to burn.

83CADMAN
08-04-09, 06:43 PM
Cash for Clunkers is pure propaganda democrap from the ObamaNation. It is to force the citizens of this once free nation of people to buy new crappy global-autos and fu** all the rest. Just follow the money. They say up to 4500 for a car that is 10 yrs old. In most cases it is equal to trade in value. You are still going pay a premium for a new eco-green POS.
And by the way will produce far more pollutions to manufacture than my old 83 Eldo emits, (which by the way I will keep rat holed in storage.) What happened to cars for charity? The IRS will give tax credit equal to book value and allows the car to be resold. All that will come from this is a lot of lower economic class citizens (the majority) will have to ride (get this) public Transportation because there will not be any used autos to buy. In the used car business? Sales, repair or aftermarket parts! Time to start looking for a new way to earn. Oh well, as long as the UAW has jobs and can pay their dues and the He## with everyone else. Get used to it, we are stuck for at least 3 and a half years. Get your vintage/classic plates so you can keep on driving the old ones while you still can.
:rant2::rant2::rant2::rant2::rant2::rant2:
One more thing;
The equivalent to Trade-In value exchange for your car is covered by $4500 of tax money. That’s your money Mr or Ms Taxpayer. You see your children or grand children are paying a car dealer to purposely seize the engine in a car the government bought on their behalf. And the remains are crushed and shipped to China to make more “Global Products”

Ranger
08-04-09, 09:51 PM
Holy crap this is stupid. Why was this method chosen? Why not just strip the engine and have the metal recycled. It would be MUCH less wasteful and it would put a few dollars into the junkyards hands for recycling.

Just consider the source. That should answer all your questions. "Change you can count on".

DanielDeville
08-05-09, 02:57 AM
Obama's change = Socialism

Hopefully we only have 3.5 more years of this left. :thehand:

therodman
08-05-09, 02:17 PM
I have to admit, I felt the same way, watching a perfectly good engine die like that was like someone putting a needle drip in their arm to end their life. I know it's mechanical device and you shouldn't feel emotion but I did, call me weird, I felt emotion watching that motor die. I didn't know they destroyed the cars with this program, in fact I went yesterday to a dealer who had an STS for sale on the internet, new listing it said. When I got there they told me it was a cash for cluncker car and that it was just taken away. They had an add for $1962.00, it was a 96 STS with a 9 engine, I was going to drive it until mine is fixed and then keep it for a second or parts car.


This is the most pathetic and sad thing I've ever seen. This is right after animal cruelty on my list. A perfect running engine, destroyed. So how much gas was wasted and polution created to do this? Anyone? It would have been better for the environment to simply "stop running" the engine.

How about the people who could NOT afford a new car, you know, that car would probably have still been useful to someone.

It's one thing to do this for fun and kicks, but another thing altogether to do this on a daily basis.

therodman
08-05-09, 02:22 PM
Exactly, I agree!!

The Mona Lisa is nothing but canvas and paint. So why not cut it up and burn it? Same deal.[/quote]

R6DTS
08-05-09, 02:25 PM
I feel bad for the car too even though its just mechanical. Just think about all the enginnering and development that went into these advanced engines. Think about all the road trips that the car must have went through..highway trips..close encounter passing manuvers where that last ounce of power saved the driver, extreme cold weather that it had to start up in, never leaving the driver stranded, driving out in the middle of nowhere in the middle of night and the driver relied on his car to get him there..Its like man and machine are tied together, they depend on eachother. Its sad to see it go, like when you sell a car and you just look at the car and remember all the memories you had with it, its sad.

Submariner409
08-05-09, 03:17 PM
The way things are going in DC it won't be long before the White House, with it's band of airheads, and Congress, the Font of Infinite Wisdom, begin proceedings to tell us that we cannot drive/own a car more than X years old.

Government Motors has to get all that stimulus money back somehow.......

smooththg6969
08-05-09, 08:24 PM
I actually voted for the man. and am a little upset with the way things have been going why would I trade in my running car which has its few minor hiccups and is fully paid for. for another car with payments and full coverage insurance putting my self into further debt. I still haven't seen any thing done for the people on Main Street. but Wall Streets looking fine.

codewize
08-05-09, 09:14 PM
To put more money in the hands of politicians and banks for them to future abuse.

Look around here and you'll find plenty of pre election posts by me, all I can say is I told you so.

To many people buy into the political crap. Once again I'll say the best man for the job was Huckabee, with or without his religious background. Watch his show, he's still saying things that make far more sense than anything we've seen in years.


I actually voted for the man. and am a little upset with the way things have been going why would I trade in my running car which has its few minor hiccups and is fully paid for. for another car with payments and full coverage insurance putting my self into further debt. I still haven't seen any thing done for the people on Main Street. but Wall Streets looking fine.

mbnv992
08-05-09, 09:17 PM
After watching that video, I am most appalled, and have to say that I agree 100% with the rest of the comments made. This has the be the dumbest program the US Government could possibly conjure up. Absolutely pathetic !! All these good working cars that someone could actually USE for a temporary car (ie. lower income people, or someone who just wants a "beater" car for going to and from work) are now being destroyed for no good reason !
I am fed up with the government.

Ranger
08-05-09, 09:31 PM
I actually voted for the man. and am a little upset with the way things have been going why would I trade in my running car which has its few minor hiccups and is fully paid for. for another car with payments and full coverage insurance putting my self into further debt. I still haven't seen any thing done for the people on Main Street. but Wall Streets looking fine.
Just wait. This is just the beginning. I suspect many of you will regret your decision.

97EldoCoupe
08-06-09, 07:20 AM
I think it's wonderful that the USA has it's first black president.... but skin color does not determine whether or not he's fit for the job. I'll admit I followed his campaign a bit and at first he seemed like a pretty good candidate. But after the election I heard some things that I didn't like.

Being a Canadian it's actually none of my business (despite having family in the U.S. and doing business with the U.S.) but if this is the way it's going to go,
call another election.

No way would I want someone to run the country who will ban classics and beaters from the roads. The harmful emissions to manufacture a new vehicle far exceeds the polutants any OBD-II car produces in probably 5-10 years time. Probably even lots of the carbureted ones. It's all about money, keeping the government and it's highly paid officials rich and the rest of us in debt.

I'd rather have a car that's paid for free and clear that gets 26 MPG and boasts a 300 HP V8 under the hood, than buy a new plastic POS running a 140 HP 4 banger getting 35 MPG, that I have to make payments on. The tradeoff in fuel economy is worth it, IMO.

Hitting a tree with a 4000lb Caddy at 60MPH - you're probably still alive, possibly badly injured but still alive.

Hitting a tree at 60 with a Kia, SmartCar, Chevy Aveo, or any similar little POS, well, all that money you saved on fuel can now go toward funeral costs.

I think I'll stick with Caddys and consider the extra fuel as life insurance and "power on tap".

codewize
08-06-09, 08:23 AM
Exactly. I'm with you 100% I seriously see either an assassination or an overthrowing in the future.


Just wait. This is just the beginning. I suspect many of you will regret your decision.

codewize
08-06-09, 08:35 AM
ATTENTIOIN ALL WRITERS, or anyone else
I have any idea

If you guys can give me some copy with some facts about why this is the most ridiculous thing going I'll get a domain and put it all on the web in efforts to get people to reconsider what they're doing.

How about stopcashforclunkers.com

But I need material and quick

Ranger
08-06-09, 10:08 AM
Cash for clunkers is only costing us 3B. A mere drop in the bucket when compared to the trillions he has already spent. I suspect that there are already many sites like you speak of on the internet.

Krashed989
08-06-09, 03:00 PM
I cant seem to find ANY site such as what codewize speaks of... I did find more support the cause though

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/around-town/cars/Why-Cash-For-Clunkers-Has-To-Stop--Now-52379972.html

mqfuZ7hiap0
C_S9XJlmlzI
R9qAhAHJEjo

If I find more I'll post it.

codewize
08-06-09, 03:52 PM
OK So , are we in? Can I get some help on copy?

Krashed989
08-06-09, 04:09 PM
Yeah I'm in. I'm gonna keep digging stuff up. I can write if you want me to, but I think more research is needed.

Check this out:
toakVFPORRQ

Krashed989
08-06-09, 04:23 PM
I'm with this guy:
rDORGqcerBM

This definitely looks environmentally friendly:
4OhW9u9R49w

Ranger
08-06-09, 05:04 PM
I cant seem to find ANY site such as what codewize speaks of... I did find more support the cause though

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/around-town/cars/Why-Cash-For-Clunkers-Has-To-Stop--Now-52379972.html

mqfuZ7hiap0
C_S9XJlmlzI
R9qAhAHJEjo

If I find more I'll post it.

I meant anti-Obama sites and organizations.

Edahall
08-06-09, 06:23 PM
More disturbing news regarding the cash for craziness program.


Obama's 'cash for clunkers'
helps Japanese auto giantshttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090804/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_cash_for_clunkers_transparency


Cash for clunkers is Obamanomics in microcosm
http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2009/08/03/cash-for-clunkers-is-obamanomics-in-microcosm/

Krashed989
08-06-09, 07:01 PM
I meant anti-Obama sites and organizations.

Like the KKK?







I keed I keed! :p

Ranger
08-06-09, 07:12 PM
:histeric: I think that one is a given.

83CADMAN
08-06-09, 07:41 PM
I guess in my youth I was considered a “HIPPY” I wore recycled clothes, I lived in older houses, fixed them and filled them with second hand furnishings. I drove old VW’s long before there was a gas problem. I try never to buy new. This has been a life choice that I embrace. Its what makes me happy. I’ve always been eco conscious. But now that it’s a fad….Its all Gouchi,:mad: HA!

All this has convinced me to repair the HG in my NORTHSTAR and keep driving my old cars till they have to peel my dying hands off the wheel. I might even grow my hair out again. Power to the people.:want::stirpot:

Krashed989
08-06-09, 07:44 PM
I'm actually all for Obama. I think he has good intentions with everything he does; however, the problem with having good intentions, too much work to do in any given day, and big ambitions is that it's hard for him to not let himself and the general public get taken advantage of. I wonder how many of the bills he passe(s/d) he actually had enough time to read through and make a better decision off of. I would sort of expect that in most cases the title, first page and last page are probably the only things read. So it doesn't put the president in charge. Instead it puts the bill writer in charge. All of those little details packed into the middle, unread, can be the upbringing of hell for the economy. All in all "Cash for Clunkers" is not a program to help the economy or the environment at all. It's a program put in place to make money for the governments new business, GM. They have to make back the money they put into it somehow; why not screw the public a little more to help?

If the website goes up is it just going to be a "what not to do" site? I think it should also have a "what should be done" portion to it.

83CADMAN
08-06-09, 07:52 PM
Did'nt Clinton try something similar?

Edahall
08-06-09, 08:06 PM
Yes it's a Lincoln but it's another complete waste!!!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VTvobaSWAG4&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VTvobaSWAG4&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

codewize
08-06-09, 08:36 PM
I agree, research is needed but I don't' have the time, that's why I'm asking for help. We need to post good stats regarding how many American cars were destroyed and replaced by imports.

How much money went to foreign auto makers.

What kind of pollution was generated during this.

How many of the cars destroyed had value.

You get the idea, but we need something soon or else it'll all be pointless. I'm not sure where we can get the numbers but maybe if someone is crafty at writing, they can portray all of that without numbers.

Destroyer
08-06-09, 10:48 PM
I AM a car nut. I love engines and cars too. The engineering and design and hard work that went into building the cars, destroyed by purposely pouring that crap in the engine. This isn't a matter of nuts and bolts, it's a matter of disrespect to the american automakers and Oldsmobile's flagship car.

Jake, you are wrong. It's all about the Benjamin's man. This car had nothing more to give. There was no disrespect, it's all business and it's always about the $$$$$$$$$$$$.

Destroyer
08-06-09, 11:04 PM
cars we are destroying FOR NO REASON. I realize the point is supposedly to replace guzzlers with fuel efficient vehicles and to get polluters off the streets You answered yourself and remember, the new car has to get at least 5 mpg better.

Destroyer the more you post idiotic things, the less credible you become. You are crying about destroying a virtually worthless car and how it would be wonderful for an Ethopian and I'm posting "idiotic" things?

As a rebuilder of Northstar engines, I can attest that they are very reliable. As an ex-owner of a N* Cadillac I can attest that they are not.
Most cars will need the head gaskets replaced at one time or another True, but Northstars need more than head gaskets as the head actually lifts off the block and needs timecerts or studs which is not the norm for most cars and it is a ridiculously hard and costly repair on a N*
Why is it OK for a Lexus owner to get a 2000k repair bill for "routine" maintenance like timing belts and water pump replacements and all be OK, but a Cadillac needs a once in a lifetime 2000k repair and it's a piece of junk. Do your research and you'll see just how misguided your claims really are.Because Lexus's retain more value than N* Cadillacs and it's more of an investment for a Lexus than it is a waste of money like it is on a N* Caddy.

Destroyer
08-06-09, 11:06 PM
Cash for Clunkers is pure propaganda democrap from the ObamaNation. It is to force the citizens of this once free nation of people to buy new crappy global-autos and fu** all the rest. Yeah, except it's not forced. People are willingly giving their cars for $4500 toward a new car. Nobody is making them do it.

Destroyer
08-06-09, 11:13 PM
ust think about all the enginnering and development that went into these advanced engines. Think about all the road trips that the car must have went through..highway trips..close encounter passing manuvers where that last ounce of power saved the driver, extreme cold weather that it had to start up in, never leaving the driver stranded, driving out in the middle of nowhere in the middle of night and the driver relied on his car to get him there..Its like man and machine are tied togetherWill you ever sell your car with all these emotions still attached or will you keep it for the rest of your life?

Destroyer
08-06-09, 11:15 PM
ATTENTIOIN ALL WRITERS, or anyone else
I have any idea

If you guys can give me some copy with some facts about why this is the most ridiculous thing going I'll get a domain and put it all on the web in efforts to get people to reconsider what they're doing.

How about stopcashforclunkers.com

But I need material and quickIf you can convince people with cars worth a few hundred bucks to not trade it in for a $4500 credit towards a new car, then you DA MAN!

Krashed989
08-07-09, 12:44 AM
If you can convince people with cars worth a few hundred bucks to not trade it in for a $4500 credit towards a new car, then you DA MAN!

If all you can afford is a car worth a few hundred bucks, you're not going to be able to afford trading it in with a $4500 value towards a new $15k debt.

90% of all the cars being traded with this program are second cars owned by middle class people. You don't see me trading my 94 in even though the thing is falling apart (can't afford to fix everything). Trading it in would put me into a debt that I wouldn't be able to make payments on without dropping out of college or somehow getting away from paying rent.

Why am I not in the program? Because I can't afford it! I work 2 jobs and go to college full time and I can't afford it.

There are just too many faults with this program. It needs to stop.

mikelawson
08-07-09, 01:02 AM
I totally agree with the guy filming the Lincoln video. What a waste. :(

Destroyer
08-08-09, 08:46 AM
If all you can afford is a car worth a few hundred bucks, you're not going to be able to afford trading it in with a $4500 value towards a new $15k debt. When has that stopped people from making irrational decisions in the past?.




Why am I not in the program? Because I can't afford it! I work 2 jobs and go to college full time and I can't afford it.

You are responsible, others are not. You KNOW and care about what you can afford and what you can't. You don't want to get in over your head and that is the smart thing to do.

Destroyer
08-08-09, 08:49 AM
Quick! Somebody save this one: http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/cto/1311833106.html . "1997 Eldorado Cadillac Convertible - $4500. My tires and brakes are all good. My engine runs great. Sorry but I am firm on the price. On Monday I will be going to CASH FOR CLUNKERS. Please save me from becoming scrap. I am red in color as you can see and I have 109,000 miles. For more info please call Fritz
727-360-2251
Thanks ".

TorquedWench
08-08-09, 03:29 PM
I'm sure somewhere there's logic in a program that helps people get into cars that they can't afford (otherwise they would've replaced them when gas prices went up to almost $5 a gallon) as a solution to a problem caused in large part by helping people get into homes they couldn't afford.

People sure don't seem to be able to grasp this very simple concept: the way to get out of debt is not to spend more and create more debt.

Edahall
08-09-09, 02:05 AM
Here's a low mileage Cadillac being destroyed. What a total waste!!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jaXejRRq4X8&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jaXejRRq4X8&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

codewize
08-09-09, 09:01 AM
There is one person that does grasp that very well. I seem to be the only one that likes him but he's made that very statement before and after the fact, do I need to repeat his name?



People sure don't seem to be able to grasp this very simple concept: the way to get out of debt is not to spend more and create more debt.

The current government is concerned about their own debt, not yours and the way for them to recuperate some funds if for you, the consumer, the spend more. They don't care how much and they don't care if you get into more debt, they just want their cur of as much money as they can get people to spend. To do so they're willing to assume more debt themselves and take a gamble that it'll pay off.

The CFC program should have been limited to buying American made cars. They may or may not realize that stimulating the Japanese economy didn't help us much. The program also should have had better guidelines. Something like, up to $4500 but never to exceed 1.5 x the current blue book, or nothing with less than 100k on the clock. I don't know but something more to make good low mileage cars not eligible.

There are enough members here, I bet if all 18,000 of us showed up at the white house lawn, someone would listen.

themadwacker1
08-09-09, 09:05 AM
People going green……..like sheep being led to slaughter:tearflag:

N*Caddy
08-09-09, 10:54 AM
This car (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/album.php?albumid=240) stays with me forever! Offer me $53.000 (original price) and watch me turning down the offer. If I would ever buy another car I can assure you it will NOT be a Japanese crap, nor a BMW idiocracy.

weister42
08-09-09, 11:12 AM
No one is forcing people to turn in their cars and why would you sell your car if you like it so much anyway? If you have to get a new car then smart people would of went out and bought a clunker running on its last leg, take out all the stuff they want then trade it in at the dealership. I can find many "runs and drives" N* caddies on craigslist for less than $2500, with $1400 being the cheapest. Northstar caddies are great but the maintenance fee adds up quickly after going over 100,000 miles, not to mention the costly repairs if you blow a headgasket.


Do realize that there are many people who treat cars like a kitchen appliance and they don't see any value to keep their car once they can get a new one.

TorquedWench
08-09-09, 01:56 PM
Good theory except that you have to show proof that you've had it insured for the past year because, obviously, they want to prevent people from doing that very thing.

It's a great deal to people who were already planning on buying another car any way...bad deal for the taxpayers who aren't and their children and their grandchildren and their great-grandchildren who will be the ones paying for it because it's not imaginary money after all.

Really bad deal for the working poor who now will have less to chose from when it comes time to buy a reliable used car so they can get to work (keeping in mind that the public transportation system in this country sucks). That's okay though, if they have lose their jobs and have to go on public support..the Obama Administration can just print up more billions of dollars or borrow it from China.

Speaking of China..they must be loving this plan because not only are they loaning us billions of dollars to help us repair our economy (not interest free financing, by the way)..but also if more Americans are driving more fuel efficient vehicles then that just means more plentiful oil supplies for them (=cheaper gas for them, too).

This was a stupid, expensive and wasteful plan that was not thought out at all.


No one is forcing people to turn in their cars and why would you sell your car if you like it so much anyway? If you have to get a new car then smart people would of went out and bought a clunker running on its last leg, take out all the stuff they want then trade it in at the dealership. I can find many "runs and drives" N* caddies on craigslist for less than $2500, with $1400 being the cheapest. Northstar caddies are great but the maintenance fee adds up quickly after going over 100,000 miles, not to mention the costly repairs if you blow a headgasket.


Do realize that there are many people who treat cars like a kitchen appliance and they don't see any value to keep their car once they can get a new one.

Ranger
08-09-09, 02:47 PM
This was a stupid, expensive and wasteful plan that was not thought out at all.
Consider the source.

V-Eight
08-12-09, 12:19 PM
That's ridiculous

Edahall
08-12-09, 02:25 PM
It appears that most of the vehicles being destroyed are American cars. And four of the five top-selling cars in the government's "Cash for Clunkers" program are made by foreign automakers.

Krashed989
08-12-09, 02:48 PM
My girlfriends father traded in his Toyota Previa... but he didn't have much money to put towards a new car, so he called around to find the cheapest car he could get. It turned out to be a nissan versa with no options, not even a radio. It does have A/C though, so that's a plus. I was just sad that he didn't buy American.

V-Eight
08-12-09, 09:31 PM
^ Wow, I didn't know cars still came without radios.

Krashed989
08-13-09, 02:22 AM
^ Wow, I didn't know cars still came without radios.

Haha me neither! It's alright because he's got everything he needs to install an aftermarket one though... The interesting thing is that it does have an antenna, even though it's not hooked up to anything. lol

ewill3rd
08-13-09, 01:31 PM
I have voiced my opinion on this many times, so often in fact that I am too weary to do it anymore.
This program is pure idiocy from the mind of idiots. I don't know if his majestey had much to do with it except putting his signature on it but it is just plain retarded.

Don't throw your plastic bottles away but take a perfectly good running late model car and destroy it so no one can use it for anything.

They could have come up with some really good incentives to trade out of your car like the $4,500 program but take the old car and give someone else an incentive to fix it up or just plain donate it to people that need cars.

I wish people would stop calling it "cash for clunkers" for two reasons.
1. That's not what it is called, it is the car allowance rebate system or "CARS"
2. Clunkers don't qualify based on the criteria of the program.

(with some minor noteable exceptions)
Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Code, I am afraid the day I can say "I told you so" isn't much farther off.
I hope I am wrong.... I really do... but I doubt it.

Ranger
08-13-09, 02:41 PM
This program is pure idiocy from the mind of idiots.
:thumbsup: And it's just the beginning.

Krashed989
08-13-09, 02:41 PM
Now I've found a site for it:

http://www.fightcashforclunkers.org/

http://www.youtube.com/user/StopCashForClunkers#play/favorites

Edahall
08-13-09, 03:08 PM
More Cadillacs suffering untimely deaths!!!


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zYoxZfWY7n0&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zYoxZfWY7n0&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_rdI5MPyfso&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_rdI5MPyfso&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

TorquedWench
08-14-09, 08:09 AM
I still have to think..although I haven't found statistics to back this up...that a vehicle that gets 18 mpg but can last 300,000 miles still is environmentally more favorable than a vehicle that only makes it 120,000 before crapping out - such as a Prius (short for "pretentious")..because I would think both the manufacturing and the destruction use up a lot of fuel and resources.
There was an article in yesterday's paper about how there was an unexpected slump in retail business in July..and some economists are speculating that its the CARS program that created it..although they had initially expected retail business to rise. These people have no common sense at all...seriously. Every billion that the government throws into this program creates about 3 billion in consumer debt...and that's 3 billion that they would've spent on other things in the next few years

weister42
08-14-09, 02:41 PM
Man I thought u can get through the loophole by buying a crappy car then trade it in :yup: oh well



But honestly though, when a person loves their car they tend to not want to trade it in for $4500. Personally I think this is a sad moment for car enthusiasts. There are people who don't care about cars, you can rant all day long and these people will still drive a Cadillac or Mercedes to crap.


If you're gonna blame someone, blame the people that trades in nice vehicles in the first place.

pimpdaddycaddy91
08-14-09, 11:55 PM
Yes no one is forcing anyone to turn in their cars BUT WHO IS PAYING FOR THE VOUCHERS! It is being forced upon every tax payers and their posterity to pay for this and all the other ridiculus porkulus bills. Try saying no to the IRS. Uh...yes I would like to opt out of this tax because I didnt recieve any benifits from it...you have the right to remain silent...

weister42
08-15-09, 06:52 PM
Well if you think about it the CFC bill currently sit at 3 billion or so, say if all 3 billion dollars came out of our pocket right now... the current population of the US as of July 2008 is 304,059,724, let's just say only 60% of us work and pay taxes(so 182,435,824), 3 billion dollars works out to be about $16 per person. Is $16 really that much of a problem? Remember the 20-some billion dollars that we sent to Iraq about two years ago that got "lost?" No one seemed to care about that for some reason, probably because they can't find anyone to blame.


E-85 gas is a total waste of money and the ex-pres Bush said it's the future, and Obama is endorsing it. Cars that run on E85 produces less power than running on gasoline so you'll have to refuel more often, which cancels out the purpose. We also produce ethanol from corn instead of sugar products(because the corn lobbyist are very powerful), driving the cost of corn up and thus driving up the prices for everything else that uses/eats corn like beef, chicken, pork, eggs... I didn't want anything to do with E85 but I had to "pay the tax" on it so they can build all new pumps everywhere.


Also remember the bank First Republic of Texas that went bankrupt in 1988 for 33.4 billion and costs FDIC $3.9 billion? People weren't fussy about it.

http://www.businesspundit.com/25-biggest-bank-failures-in-history/


Cash for Clunkers' main goal is to get older cars off the road and it did, as far as why they need to destroy the car is beyond me but hey that makes my Deville that much more rare, and shame on those people who bring in nice cars to let it die.

Think about all the secret projects that's going on... the government didn't even tell us about the SR-71 blackbird and all the spy planes, and those airplanes are built with taxpayers money and we didn't even know such a thing existed. Skunkworks is currently working on a hypersonic airplane, who's paying for that??? Where's the money needed to upkeep Area 51, the highest secured region in the nation that the government has denied its existence since it was built more than 50 years ago? I'm also pretty sure you can't uncheck the "I don't want my money to be spent on high-tech weaponry and fusion bombs" box nor the "search for extraterrestrial life" box. The government isn't customer service, I'd say as long as the economy rights itself it is a job well done.

Krashed989
08-15-09, 07:11 PM
...and shame on those people who bring in nice cars to let it die...

The thing is, that's pretty much all that qualifies. Most real clunkers don't.

Ranger
08-15-09, 07:59 PM
Cash for Clunkers' main goal is to get older cars off the road
It's main goal was to stimulate (subsidize) auto sales. I still say it should have been ONLY if you bought a GM, Ford or Chrysler.

ewill3rd
08-15-09, 10:30 PM
"Because we waste money on everything else" is not justification to do something this retarded.

No the program was not designed to get "older" cars off the road. Re-read the program rules.
It is a special interest tree hugger bill designed to cut out the luxury car market, get SUVs and pickups off the road and get people to buy little econo-boxes.
Pretty much the same plan they had in the 70's and look how well that worked out.

It does nothing but hurt every aspect of the automotive industry except for sales... and those are going to be hard hit when the money runs out. (mind you most dealers are in for all this money and they haven't received a dime from the gov't yet!)
It is destroying the used part trade and good luck getting a remanufactured N* engine in the years to come.
It is also robbing people from the ability to receive a donated vehicle to meet their needs. Sure the big 3 got some money but anyone can see where the money is going, straight to China and Japan. Don't kid yourself. Some "stimulous".

I don't have problems with the government spending money on programs to protect me and my country, I have issues with them taking my money and spending it on welfare programs and special interest garbage like this.

I have said it before, I hope I am wrong... but I doubt it.
I can use that $16 to buy my kid some clothes.

83CADMAN
08-16-09, 12:56 PM
:thehand:I agree its an Obama-nation.:eek:

weister42
08-17-09, 03:55 PM
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j255/weister42/Cars/GNKEG.jpg

inurok
08-18-09, 08:13 PM
Some of these so called clunkers look better than many of the cars I see on the road as people DDs

tateos
08-19-09, 12:51 PM
It's main goal was to stimulate (subsidize) auto sales. I still say it should have been ONLY if you bought a GM, Ford or Chrysler.

Or to be a little more liberal, how about only a car assembled in North America? I will avoid Japanese cars as long as possible based on principle, but if I do have to by a Japanese nameplate some day, it will have to at least be assembled here - I am thinking of cars like the Honda Accord and some Hyundais - probably a lot more that are on that list. I have a client, Arvin Sango, that makes exhaust parts for Japanese auto makers in the US. The parts are made in the US and installed in the US - kind of blurs the picture a little bit. I will only leave GM and Ford if forced to.

weister42
08-19-09, 01:24 PM
In 2005 Hyundai built an auto-manufacturing plant in Montgomery, Alabama. The plant costs 1.45 billion, employs more than 2,000 people and 64 suppliers that adds additional 5,500 jobs in the US.

Nearly 80 percent of all Honda and Acura vehicles sold in America are built at one of Honda's six auto plants in North America. Toyota has more than one plant in the US also.

Excluding most exotic sports/luxury cars, there aren't a single vehicle in the world that's manufactured all in one country. Taiwan, for example, makes over 90% of the world's silicon chips including the ECM in all the new cars. It is stupid nowadays to restrict a single product to be produced in one area because that doesn't help the flow of international economy and not everyone have or are willing to use their natural resources and manpower. There's a reason why the US imports more goods than we export, in the first half of 2005 our total import from JUST CHINA is $645.03 billion, whereas our export is $342.34 billion. To say it in a rude way, we might as well let other countries use up their resources and dirty up their land to make cheap daily items FOR US.

What's really made in the US? High-tech weaponry, spaceships, airplanes, the original JEEP and HUMVEE from AM General, medical machinery or simply things that matter on the grand scale. Do realize that we were the first one with atomic weapons, the first one to put a man on the Moon and the first one to come up with fully-auto shotguns that can shoot mini missiles. Why should we be stuck with making pens, pencils and simple mindless plastic things in dollar stores? Of course we can give China a call and say we can do it ourselves, but I'm not about to pay $10 for a pack of ten pens. Bad products from China? It's not their fault, it's the import safety inspector's fault for failing to recognize potential hazards.


My Cadillac Deville was assembled in Mexico, so according to you guys' rules I should of never bought the car huh? By the way Buick is doing fantastic in China, their models of Buicks are shoulders above the Buicks we get here. Here's a picture of their Park Avenue... and yes it is built in China in a GM plant. Buicks are known as a status symbol and luxury for young, urban professionals in China, whereas here in the US we know them as old people's coffin before the real one.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j255/weister42/Cars/800px-New_Buick_Park_Avenue.jpg

Chrysler? Screw them, they're now owned by Cerberus, the most private investment firm in the world and losing Chrysler would of maybe cut their profit by 15%, yet they asked for a bailout and got it. Chrysler make terrible cars nowadays anyway, except the Viper which should become its own brand and thus making it more exotic and "American." Chrysler has lost its heritage and it's best for them to retire into the history books than to drag on like Brett Favre.

Ford has upright itself without any help, they just needed a few slaps across their designer's face to wake them up. The Ford FIVE HUNDRED was a stupid-looking car that isn't actually good at anything, and they obviously copied the idea of a name from the Chrysler 300c thinking it's a great idea. It also didn't help that they called something a "Taurus X" when it doesn't look like a Taurus and it's almost an SUV. The all-new, Taurus SHO is what they should of made in the beginning.

GM, Ford and Chrysler also sell cars outside of the US too you know, so to say "buy American" means buying GM, Ford or Chrysler is wrong. The last thing you want is an international backlash at "American" cars because we think everyone else took our jobs.

weister42
08-19-09, 02:05 PM
Sorry for the long post but I just want to make my point.

Destroyer
08-20-09, 12:07 AM
More Cadillacs suffering untimely deaths!!!


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zYoxZfWY7n0&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zYoxZfWY7n0&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_rdI5MPyfso&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_rdI5MPyfso&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Beautiful! Same color as my '98 was. Mine did that on it's own but it is nice to know that someone got a $4500 credit for that pile of crap. I wasn't so lucky. ;)

V-Eight
08-20-09, 01:16 AM
The thing is, that's pretty much all that qualifies. Most real clunkers don't.

Too true

osu411yamaha
08-23-09, 01:51 AM
I come from a strong democratic family so my opinion on this is about as unbiased as it gets. My friend and I(before his passing) parted out junk cars on ebay as a side business. This would have put a serious burden on us if we were still in the business. Destroying these cars puts a major strain on the used automobile parts industry, car repair industry, plus multiple others. The Obama administration is clearly taking from one industry to give to another. Whether or not this is intentional is subject of another debate.

It is a common idea in economics that free markets will always function better than those with intervention. By free markets I mean those that are controlled simply by the laws of supply and demand and without outside intervention from parties such as the government. For example think of two car lots. Car lot A functions with class, treats their customers well, prices their products fairly and affordably, and so on. Car lot B is out to cheat their customers and has serious problems with warranty issues. Eventually customers catch on and only shop at car lot A as word of mouth spreads. Car lot B is obviously at risk of going out of business. If it were to go out of business another car lot will come in its place to again compete with car lot A. This car lot C will obviously have to have similar business practices to that of car lot A or it will fail just as car lot B did and then car lot D would just come in and give another try. If a third party investor decides to dump a bunch of money into car lot B to save it, but its business practices are left unchanged then it will eventually end up in the same boat. The best situation would have been to simply let car lot B fail by not intervening, letting the "Free-hand" control the situation, and another car lot with better business practices will rise up in its place. Take this microeconomical situation and compare it with our macroeconomical situation. Im sure you can figure out who car lot B is and who the third party intervening is. All in all we would just be better off if the government would stay out of the markets.

ewill3rd
08-23-09, 12:08 PM
Amen... and amen.

CARS ends tomorrow night at 8 pm so if you want your government hand out you'd best get in line.

evois
09-18-09, 10:13 PM
coming from a driving enthusisast, that was painful to watch:(

Edahall
09-19-09, 02:36 PM
This Lexus didn't last long.

http://px5.sfstatic.com/thumbs/0000/87/87/707878.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/cash-for-clunkers-3_707878.htm)cash+for+clunkers+3 (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/cash-for-clunkers-3_707878.htm)

C0RSA1R
09-19-09, 06:44 PM
I think I'll stick with Caddys and consider the extra fuel as life insurance and "power on tap".

Amen!! :thumbsup: