: BAD heatsoak. Help?



Gotham CTS-V
07-31-09, 11:15 AM
Took the car out for a few runs last night.

Pulled super hard on the first run. 2nd run ran similiar but I thought I saw a drop in power. 3rd run it felt much slower than stock.

I am attributing this to heatsoak since I know that other s/c'ed cars have these same problems.

What do you guys recommend? I know Jesse has an upgraded heat exchanger. Do any other companies have them and what have you guys seen so far with results from these?

Thanks!

brent eb02
07-31-09, 11:21 AM
you should get the car to a dyno asap

check afr's and actual boost levels....the gauge in the car is way off

the heat exchanger works well though

im sure the hotter it gets the more timing its pulling

Florian
07-31-09, 11:27 AM
welcome to the world of supercharging. Heat soak is poison to performance and with S/Cs it comes on fast. You will typically get 1 good pull, then your cooked for a while...thats why you see folks tossing 22# bags of ice on their motors between runs to cool the heat soak. HS is one of the inherent flaws of supercharging. You can try to increase cooling fluid, more fans, etc, but you'll never cure it.


F

Gotham CTS-V
07-31-09, 01:03 PM
welcome to the world of supercharging. Heat soak is poison to performance and with S/Cs it comes on fast. You will typically get 1 good pull, then your cooked for a while...thats why you see folks tossing 22# bags of ice on their motors between runs to cool the heat soak. HS is one of the inherent flaws of supercharging. You can try to increase cooling fluid, more fans, etc, but you'll never cure it.


F

I understand heatsoak and how our cars are victims of it...especially those who are running higher boost.

I am just trying to minimize it. I guess I have to contact Jesse and put an order in :cool:

brent eb02
07-31-09, 01:15 PM
yeah i would...

fyi... when i got my upgraded heat exchanger from W4M
it had no tabs on it to mount it to anything

Jesse told me to buy some foam and let it rest on top of it.

i paid to have tabs welded on so it could be properly mounted.

Gotham CTS-V
07-31-09, 01:41 PM
yeah i would...

fyi... when i got my upgraded heat exchanger from W4M
it had no tabs on it to mount it to anything

Jesse told me to buy some foam and let it rest on top of it.

i paid to have tabs welded on so it could be properly mounted.

Ah, so it's not just plug and play huh? Thanks for the heads up man. Any pics of the H/E and the way you have it mounted?

Gary Wells
07-31-09, 01:48 PM
Ah, so it's not just plug and play huh? Thanks for the heads up man. Any pics of the H/E and the way you have it mounted?
That's pretty "Plug & Play", just not "Mount & Play" .

CIWS
07-31-09, 02:20 PM
That's pretty "Plug & Play", just not "Mount & Play" .

There's a sexual connotation in there some where . .


Edit Post


lol nothing i have was plug and play or mount and play ..

i will try and take pictures of it mounted its pretty tight in there.


You didn't help ;)

brent eb02
07-31-09, 02:20 PM
lol nothing i have was plug and play or mount and play ..

i will try and take pictures of it mounted its pretty tight in there.

Gotham CTS-V
07-31-09, 03:09 PM
lol nothing i have was plug and play or mount and play ..

i will try and take pictures of it mounted its pretty tight in there.

Thanks man

Dr. Design
07-31-09, 03:42 PM
Hello,
Sorry to hear about the issues you are having. On all of our overboosted STS-V and XLR-V's we require upgrades of intercooler systems, heat exchangers, and methanol injection systems.

The CTS-V will start cutting timing once it reaches a certain IAT2 temp. When we tune these vehicles we don't change those parameters, this way the engine stays safe. We are looking to add methanol to keep temperatures in their happy range and ultimately allow you to keep the vehicles timing run after run. We noticed recently on a tuned CTS-V the vehicle would lose timing and power around the 3rd or 4th run. The drop was about 20-30WHP. There are parameters in your vehicles computer that allow the engine to protect itself. Its not that 130 degree IAT's are horrible for the car. It's just that the computer has safeties in it that keep it from hurting itself. From a tuning standpoint your don't want remove or change those parameters. Ideally you want to keep the vehicle from seeing those temps.

Ironically this was the same amount we saw lost when we did all of our development work for the STS-V. That testing ultimately led to advancements in intercooler efficiency and new products that would address heatsoak. The results of the upgraded intercooler system was a vehicle that was able to more boost and only lose a total of 4WHP after 5 runs back to back. Where as the factory vehicle lost 30WHP doing the same test. The same should hold true for the 09 CTS-V.

We will be conducting testing of methanol injection and upgraded heat exchangers for the CTS-V. The plan would be to show everyone what the measured temps are before and after, with and without the intercooler upgrades. We will even show the upgrades with the methanol system installed. If we release something it will certainly be plug and play, much like our STS-V and XLR-V upgrades (see image sample). You can see the mounting bracket for this intercooler. They are laser cut, CAD designed, and powdercoated. They mount with new hardware and to existing holes on the vehicle. No permanent modifications are required to the vehicle.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r134/ctd3rnd/IMG_2060.jpg


I am sure our technician will give everyone an update once we commence testing and he is ready to publish the results.

Thanks,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac









Took the car out for a few runs last night.

Pulled super hard on the first run. 2nd run ran similiar but I thought I saw a drop in power. 3rd run it felt much slower than stock.

I am attributing this to heatsoak since I know that other s/c'ed cars have these same problems.

What do you guys recommend? I know Jesse has an upgraded heat exchanger. Do any other companies have them and what have you guys seen so far with results from these?

Thanks!

Gotham CTS-V
07-31-09, 04:11 PM
Excellent! Any idea when the heat exchanger/intercooler upgrade will be available? I am also highly interested in the meth injection...thanks

brent eb02
07-31-09, 04:19 PM
thanks D3
anything you can offer would be great !

Dr. Design
07-31-09, 04:50 PM
No dates yet. All I can say is that we are working on it. I know our development and production can be a little timely, but some things are worth the wait. The methanol system will be pretty cool also! Again none of these items are designed to leave permanent footprints on the vehicle. Keep in mind with the methanol system you will need a custom tune for your vehicle.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac



Excellent! Any idea when the heat exchanger/intercooler upgrade will be available? I am also highly interested in the meth injection...thanks

wait4me
07-31-09, 05:02 PM
Our 400 dollar exhanger that we made helps heat soak alot. It holds 3 times the Stock cooling fluid capacity. So 1, you get more volume of fluid for much better cooling capacity. 2. You get airflow forced thru the dual pass, "Means it goes thru the cooled airflow radiator 2 times" before entering the stock exchanger which at that time, it then goes thru the stock one to be cooled one more time. Mine takes up almost the FULL front high pressure zone on the front lower grill, so it is going to be more efficient even at high mph. In fact, the faster you go, the more air is forced thru it, making it much closer to ambient temps.

As for Tabs, and mounting, I dont put any of that on because it just sits right into place and is held on by the bumper and the stock heat exchanger ports... If people think it needs held in by something, then i just tell them to put some high density foam on the bottom that it sits on the bottom of the bumper cover under the car. It is HUGE and fits the whole section, so tabs arent needed as it will never move around on you...

The dimensions on mine are HUGE and no fan is needed as the Stock fans force the airflow thru the exchanger and it keeps the temps alot cooler for longer....



When it comes to heat exchangers, Bigger volume, fin count, core volume, inlet/outlet restriction "lack of restriction" and placement all make one better than another.

I can safely say ours is top dog right now. As you just cant fit in a bigger one...

The only thing better would be a ice remote box with HUGE volume internal core. That would be bigger than an ice chest to allow for fast enough thermal transfer of heat from the water..

Nutz
07-31-09, 09:55 PM
If I went to the track, I would bring a $40 Home Depot Rigid carpet blower/fan and a 100' cord to reach an outlet in the pits and lay it right in front of the heat exchanger on speed 1 (high) slightly tilted up. I'm SURE the car would be at 100 degrees within 20 mins with start-up circulations. Especially with 2 10 lb. bags of ice on the intercooler housing. This is all hypothetical of course... :getaway:

kck
08-01-09, 11:35 PM
Our 400 dollar exhanger that we made helps heat soak alot. It holds 3 times the Stock cooling fluid capacity. So 1, you get more volume of fluid for much better cooling capacity. 2. You get airflow forced thru the dual pass, "Means it goes thru the cooled airflow radiator 2 times" before entering the stock exchanger which at that time, it then goes thru the stock one to be cooled one more time. Mine takes up almost the FULL front high pressure zone on the front lower grill, so it is going to be more efficient even at high mph. In fact, the faster you go, the more air is forced thru it, making it much closer to ambient temps.

As for Tabs, and mounting, I dont put any of that on because it just sits right into place and is held on by the bumper and the stock heat exchanger ports... If people think it needs held in by something, then i just tell them to put some high density foam on the bottom that it sits on the bottom of the bumper cover under the car. It is HUGE and fits the whole section, so tabs arent needed as it will never move around on you...

The dimensions on mine are HUGE and no fan is needed as the Stock fans force the airflow thru the exchanger and it keeps the temps alot cooler for longer....

When it comes to heat exchangers, Bigger volume, fin count, core volume, inlet/outlet restriction "lack of restriction" and placement all make one better than another.

I can safely say ours is top dog right now. As you just cant fit in a bigger one...

The only thing better would be a ice remote box with HUGE volume internal core. That would be bigger than an ice chest to allow for fast enough thermal transfer of heat from the water..

Jesse:

I have a few questions:

(1) In the post just above yours, Dr. Design indicates that just doing blower upgrades without “cooling” mods will result in big horsepower reductions after repeated hard runs. So, after installing your (big) heat exchanger, what (smaller) reductions in hp are you observing with repeated runs?

(2) Dr. Design also notes in his post that they are working on intercooler system upgrades and methanol injections systems for the V2, in addition to improved heat exchangers. Of course, you already have an advanced heat exchanger. But do you have any plans for upgraded intercooler systems and methanol injection systems? If so, do you have any rough timeline for these performance enhancements?

Kyle

wait4me
08-02-09, 11:27 AM
Im probably not going to be offering methanol kits, as they are bad for the valves used in our cars and may cause pitting on the stem/face area.. There are several universal kits for around 350 bucks on ebay that would work just fine for people on our cars if they really want to use them. Im just not convinced that it would benefit me for SAFE added power. If there is a car tuned for it, with more timing ect, You are just asking for more problems. Im not saying that it ever will, but what happens if you loose the pump during a wot blast? OR a jet gets clogged without you knowing, Or you run out. Or the relay quits, or you loose volume. ect... Id rather just make the rest of the system good and not use it...

If we get to the point of people wanting the ragged edge on added horsepower past the 600 mark, then maybe start looking into the other things....

Id rather use nitrous in a small form if i was going to have a choice.. Colder and adds even more horsepower.

The kit i made for my car was just a NX universal kit from a Viper. The controller i used was a trick performance P gauge. It all worked very good before i pulled it off to go back to boosting mods...

The Boost you add definatly plays a big part in heat soak. The more you add boost wise, the more heat you are generating and needing to get rid of. That is why i made the huge exchanger. It was the added volume needed to keep things good even at 16psi.

kck
08-04-09, 01:25 AM
Im probably not going to be offering methanol kits, as they are bad for the valves used in our cars and may cause pitting on the stem/face area.. There are several universal kits for around 350 bucks on ebay that would work just fine for people on our cars if they really want to use them. Im just not convinced that it would benefit me for SAFE added power. If there is a car tuned for it, with more timing ect, You are just asking for more problems. Im not saying that it ever will, but what happens if you loose the pump during a wot blast? OR a jet gets clogged without you knowing, Or you run out. Or the relay quits, or you loose volume. ect... Id rather just make the rest of the system good and not use it...

If we get to the point of people wanting the ragged edge on added horsepower past the 600 mark, then maybe start looking into the other things....

Id rather use nitrous in a small form if i was going to have a choice.. Colder and adds even more horsepower.

The kit i made for my car was just a NX universal kit from a Viper. The controller i used was a trick performance P gauge. It all worked very good before i pulled it off to go back to boosting mods...

The Boost you add definatly plays a big part in heat soak. The more you add boost wise, the more heat you are generating and needing to get rid of. That is why i made the huge exchanger. It was the added volume needed to keep things good even at 16psi.

Jesse:

Thanks for your extremely informative responses to my questions.

Some follow-up questions (of course):

In other posts you’ve indicated that the intercooler on the V is actually better than the one on the ZR-1, because no compromises were needed to fit it under the greater hood clearance of the V. However, do you think we would experience much benefit from adapting the larger blower on the ZR-1 compared to the stock V blower, assuming that would even be possible? And, assuming the larger blower would provide substantial performance boosts, do you have any future plans for offering this additional performance option?

Finally, I really appreciate all the many “clarifications” you were able to provide me in our phone conversation this evening!

Kyle

Prof
08-04-09, 06:12 AM
Heat soak has been an issue with my supercharged SRT 10. It has water/meth injection which helps, but the real solution for track days was the insertion of a 5.6 ohm resistor in the IAT sensor lead.

The factory cpm pulls huge amounts of timing as the IAT sensor sends higher and higher temperature readings. The insertion of the resistor lowers the reading that is sent to the pcm. It is important to understand that my SRT 10 is a heavily modified engine, of particular importance is that it has forged rods and pistons capable of tolerating the higher temperatures generated by forced induction.

Someone needs to experiment with this technique on our CTS V's to determine what amount of resistance could be added to the circuit to keep the cpm from pulling timing as temperatures rise.

Dr. Design
08-05-09, 10:46 PM
Hello,
I wanted to help give you some insight to your question. I don’t know if you ever got an answer, but since we have a fairly good amount of knowledge and data on this matter we might be able to answer your question.

For starters the blower on the ZR1 is complete overkill, even for the ZR1. That blower can certainly move a great deal of air, but it only shows its supremacy at the higher RPM's. I don’t have the adiabatic efficiency chart on this computer, so I can’t show the chart. But basically if you aren't looking to go over 800-850HP there is really no reason to look at the 2300 blower you are referring to.

Also we hope to have some more information regarding the D3 intercooler upgrade as well as the methanol injection system next week sometime.

Let us know if you have any other questions.


Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac






Jesse:

Thanks for your extremely informative responses to my questions.

Some follow-up questions (of course):

In other posts you’ve indicated that the intercooler on the V is actually better than the one on the ZR-1, because no compromises were needed to fit it under the greater hood clearance of the V. However, do you think we would experience much benefit from adapting the larger blower on the ZR-1 compared to the stock V blower, assuming that would even be possible? And, assuming the larger blower would provide substantial performance boosts, do you have any future plans for offering this additional performance option?


Kyle

kck
08-05-09, 11:44 PM
Hello,
I wanted to help give you some insight to your question. I don’t know if you ever got an answer, but since we have a fairly good amount of knowledge and data on this matter we might be able to answer your question.

For starters the blower on the ZR1 is complete overkill, even for the ZR1. That blower can certainly move a great deal of air, but it only shows its supremacy at the higher RPM's. I don’t have the adiabatic efficiency chart on this computer, so I can’t show the chart. But basically if you aren't looking to go over 800-850HP there is really no reason to look at the 2300 blower you are referring to.

Also we hope to have some more information regarding the D3 intercooler upgrade as well as the methanol injection system next week sometime.

Let us know if you have any other questions.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac


Dr. Design:

Very interesting info on the larger-capacity ZR-1 blower! And I’m looking forward to hearing about your new performance upgrades.

Kyle

Gotham CTS-V
08-06-09, 09:52 AM
Hello,
I wanted to help give you some insight to your question. I don’t know if you ever got an answer, but since we have a fairly good amount of knowledge and data on this matter we might be able to answer your question.

For starters the blower on the ZR1 is complete overkill, even for the ZR1. That blower can certainly move a great deal of air, but it only shows its supremacy at the higher RPM's. I don’t have the adiabatic efficiency chart on this computer, so I can’t show the chart. But basically if you aren't looking to go over 800-850HP there is really no reason to look at the 2300 blower you are referring to.

Also we hope to have some more information regarding the D3 intercooler upgrade as well as the methanol injection system next week sometime.

Let us know if you have any other questions.


Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac

It's nice to see different tuners like D3 and W4M chime in.

Looking foward to seeing the new products. Keep us updated!

haterinc
08-06-09, 11:35 AM
these might help on the eaton r1900 vs the r2300

the r1900 could benefit from a higher lid for more improved airflow. there is room under the hood and and its been discussed before but apparently the coefficient chart in the ecu isn't allowing it without changes per w4m. he has only had about 3 others interested, but i for one would be interested in that.

V with r1900 with mods approx 560 rwhp
http://www.lingenfelter.com/images/2009%20CTS-V%20Dyno_1000.jpg

r1900 blower performance map
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@per/documents/content/ct_127899.gif

Z with r2300 no mods approx
http://www.dragtimes.com/images_dyno/17049-2009-Chevrolet-Corvette-ZR1-Dyno.jpg

r2300 blower performance map
http://www.katechengines.com/street_performance/images/Superchargers/R2300-10-16-08%20MAGNUSON%20HOUSING.bmp

both are built off of the 6.2L block, but the power under the modded V's band is SICK! it is 25rwhp over the stock zr1 at any given time and peaks at 5700 rpm and holds that until the zr1 can catch up and granted the zr1's r2300 is still climbing at 5700rpm vs. the V's r1900 starting to flat line, but i'd rather have the more usable 25rwhp throughout the powerband, esp on a heavier car.

relating that to the turbos, guys with the 3000GT's, which was a 4300lb car as well would go to these big twin 20g turbo kits, but the car was so heavy that they weren't practical under daily driving conditions, they only saw their benefit on the strip or on highway pulls where they could really spool up.

just my 2 cents... whether you wanted it or not, hopefully it was beneficial to someone lol

Dr. Design
08-06-09, 01:30 PM
Hello,
That is exactly what I was referring to per the differences between the 1900 and the 2300.

As for the lid, we actually produced a supercharger lid spacer for the STS-V and XLR-V application to increase volume in the lid amongst a few other areas we wanted to address. I will say we have been looking at testing something for the 09 CTS-V.... I dont know if it will hit the market, but if testing yields the results we are looking for then expect to see something released...

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac


these might help on the eaton r1900 vs the r2300

the r1900 could benefit from a higher lid for more improved airflow. there is room under the hood and and its been discussed before but apparently the coefficient chart in the ecu isn't allowing it without changes per w4m. he has only had about 3 others interested, but i for one would be interested in that.


both are built off of the 6.2L block, but the power under the modded V's band is SICK! it is 25rwhp over the stock zr1 at any given time and peaks at 5700 rpm and holds that until the zr1 can catch up and granted the zr1's r2300 is still climbing at 5700rpm vs. the V's r1900 starting to flat line, but i'd rather have the more usable 25rwhp throughout the powerband, esp on a heavier car.

relating that to the turbos, guys with the 3000GT's, which was a 4300lb car as well would go to these big twin 20g turbo kits, but the car was so heavy that they weren't practical under daily driving conditions, they only saw their benefit on the strip or on highway pulls where they could really spool up.

just my 2 cents... whether you wanted it or not, hopefully it was beneficial to someone lol

kck
08-06-09, 05:48 PM
Dr. Design & haterinc:

Really interesting information on the r1900 vs the r2300, and how to improve the r1900 with a supercharger lid spacer. If I’m understanding the technical issues correctly, then this modification would seem like really “cheap” horsepower (i.e., just adding a lid spacer) that might also enhance engine reliability – given that you would not have to increase blower pressure as much to gain the same horsepower. Correct?

Haterinc, your post also seems to suggest that Jesse has asked forum members how many of them would be interested in this lid spacer mod. I recall seeing him post information indicating that the V’s blower would work much better if it was “taller” (which the lid spacer would obviously produce), but I don’t recall him asking how many persons would be interested in this modification. I must have missed the post. In any case, based on how you and Dr. Design have explained this potential mod in this thread, I’m guessing there would be a number of us who would be interested.

Also, there is a brand new thread that discusses the advanced technology in the Eaton r1900 and r2300 – see http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/176620-eaton-blower-research.html. As I’m writing this, I just realized that the poster is haterinc! I’m going to ask you a question on your other thread regarding the implications of the 18,000 rpm “boundary” (for both efficiency & reliability?) that you highlight there. I also want to alert forum members reading that thread that there is some very useful related information on this thread.

Kyle

haterinc
08-06-09, 06:40 PM
As far as a lid spacer, you'd see more benefits of that at higher boost but yes at stock levels it would still help the air flow. I recall Jesse saying there was a 2psi pressure drop from the front to the back. But boost it up with a pulley because the more air you're moving through there and the more room it has, the more hp you'll see make it out.

Jesse mentioned the low interest in lid stuff to me on the phone earlier this week as I was looking at his install schedule later this month trying to get my plans together. I'll be eager to see if D3 does a spacer as well, but I think there is just more to it than the part as I mentioned earlier.


Dr. Design & haterinc:

Really interesting information on the r1900 vs the r2300, and how to improve the r1900 with a supercharger lid spacer. If I’m understanding the technical issues correctly, then this modification would seem like really “cheap” horsepower (i.e., just adding a lid spacer) that might also enhance engine reliability – given that you would not have to increase blower pressure as much to gain the same horsepower. Correct?

Haterinc, your post also seems to suggest that Jesse has asked forum members how many of them would be interested in this lid spacer mod. I recall seeing him post information indicating that the V’s blower would work much better if it was “taller” (which the lid spacer would obviously produce), but I don’t recall him asking how many persons would be interested in this modification. I must have missed the post. In any case, based on how you and Dr. Design have explained this potential mod in this thread, I’m guessing there would be a number of us who would be interested.

Also, there is a brand new thread that discusses the advanced technology in the Eaton r1900 and r2300 – see http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/176620-eaton-blower-research.html. As I’m writing this, I just realized that the poster is haterinc! I’m going to ask you a question on your other thread regarding the implications of the 18,000 rpm “boundary” (for both efficiency & reliability?) that you highlight there. I also want to alert forum members reading that thread that there is some very useful related information on this thread.

Kyle

kck
08-06-09, 09:40 PM
As far as a lid spacer, you'd see more benefits of that at higher boost but yes at stock levels it would still help the air flow. I recall Jesse saying there was a 2psi pressure drop from the front to the back. But boost it up with a pulley because the more air you're moving through there and the more room it has, the more hp you'll see make it out.

Jesse mentioned the low interest in lid stuff to me on the phone earlier this week as I was looking at his install schedule later this month trying to get my plans together. I'll be eager to see if D3 does a spacer as well, but I think there is just more to it than the part as I mentioned earlier.

haterinc:

I just talked with Jesse earlier today regarding stopping at his shop on the 15th (which will work out, if he does not have to fly to Dubai). Among many questions regarding performance mods that I asked him about in our lengthy phone conversation, I brought up the issue of creating a “taller” blower…. and it is, indeed, more complicated (and expensive) than just adding a lid spacer.

Kyle

GMX322V S/C
06-25-10, 12:59 AM
...the r1900 could benefit from a higher lid for more improved airflow. there is room under the hood and and its been discussed before but apparently the coefficient chart in the ecu isn't allowing it without changes per w4m...


As far as a lid spacer, you'd see more benefits of that at higher boost but yes at stock levels it would still help the air flow. I recall Jesse saying there was a 2psi pressure drop from the front to the back. But boost it up with a pulley because the more air you're moving through there and the more room it has, the more hp you'll see make it out...I'll be eager to see if D3 does a spacer as well, but I think there is just more to it than the part as I mentioned earlier.


...I just talked with Jesse earlier today...I brought up the issue of creating a “taller” blower…. and it is, indeed, more complicated (and expensive) than just adding a lid spacer...

Whatever became of this? Just curious. Wait4Me has ported the blower body, so it flows more air, Fastlane popped on a TVS2300 which flows a lot more air, so what's the problem with a lid spacer--especially if there's room?

Prof
06-25-10, 05:31 AM
Whatever became of this? Just curious. Wait4Me has ported the blower body, so it flows more air, Fastlane popped on a TVS2300 which flows a lot more air, so what's the problem with a lid spacer--especially if there's room?

And what has been the experience with water/meth?

w4me says it is not good for our valves...Dr. D wants to do it...but we have not heard a thing...

I have used water/meth on my SRT 10 for over 20k miles...no valve issues, so I presume the V2 valves have a different composition...

Updates please.

My previous comments about adding a resistor to the IAT circuit relate to highly and professionally tuned and forged engines...and it is very successful in minimizing the effects of heat soak, there are literally thousands of Viper engines with the mod, and the cost is less than a dollar and takes five minutes.

TMC CL65
06-25-10, 12:06 PM
Interesting topic TVS 1900 vs TVS 2300. I did some research a few years back when I was seriously considering getting a Shelby GT500. A good # of people were swapping out the stock Eaton M122 blower for the Eaton/FRPP 2300 TVS (interestingly enough if a Ford dealership did the s/c swap before you took delivery, they still gave you a 1yr powertrain warranty). Swapping to the 2300 obviously increased overall flow just because of the sheer size differential, but it also was running inherently lower IATs. The bigger blower didn't have to work so hard and didn't need to generate as much boost to deliver the same rwhp that a pullied stock blower needed. Obviously, you can pulley the 2300 blower and generate significantly more boost and then heat will become an issue. There is much more to gain on the Eaton M122 swap to the TVS 2300 than there is for the TVS 1900 swap to the TVS 2300. The TVS 1900 is a much more efficient (and bigger) blower than the M122. However, I think the TVS 2300 will be more impervious to higher ambient temps than a pullied TVS 1900 with similar cooling modifications and similar rwhp.

Tom