: W4M 2.55 + 8.5 pulley dyno graph



brent eb02
07-31-09, 01:55 AM
just picked up my car tonight
here is the dyno graph with the 2.55 and 8.5
i also have w4m exhaust cold air intake 160 t stat and heat exchanger
oh and the w4m tune
we couldnt get more than 12.5 lbs of boost unlike the advertised 15-16 lbs

maybe the manual cars get more but mine is an auto trans


http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs145.snc1/5371_109898417991_711892991_2296540_7898108_n.jpg

i have been waiting since july 17th for an updated tune to fix this dip in power at 4000 rpms and the rich afr's ...i have called jesse 8-10 times and was told " i will email it right away"....2 weeks later and all those calls nothing !!


so just for the heck of it we put the 9.05 lower pulley on to see if it would make any difference
here is what we found

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs145.snc1/5371_109892242991_711892991_2296517_2990666_n.jpg

561 rwhp and 562 rwtq again no where near 600 rwhp but remember the 9.05 with the 2.55 upper should be way higher than that.. and at 17-18 lbs of boost

here is the manual boost gauge for all to see with the 9.05 lower and 2.55 upper 13.5 was the max we saw

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs125.snc1/5371_109894932991_711892991_2296532_2984961_n.jpg


im not here to start all kinds of trouble but i am really pissed off with the out come of all of this.
there has to be a difference between auto's and manual cars because im not seeing anywhere near the boost levels jesse has.

the car feels strong then falls over at 4000 rpms with a 70-80 rwtq drop in power.. the afr's at 4000 rpms also get real fat


so now i dont really know what to do...Jesse now says that all i really bought is a hand held with a "free tune " thrown in on the deal ...and if i complain to much i will get banned from the forum !!

Gary Wells
07-31-09, 06:09 AM
Interesting info, to be sure. The RWHP, RWTQ, & 13.5 PSI is not all that bad but it would be nice if you could get rid of that drop. That drop in RWHP & RWTQ appears to be noticeable enough that it could be felt during an all out run. Hopefully Jesse and / or SCT can get it all squared away for you. Many thanks for posting up, too. Now people know what they can expect.

neuronbob
07-31-09, 06:55 AM
Thanks for posting. This potential modder is patiently weighing all options still and this information is hlelpful. I also wonder whether a software tweak will fix that dip.

brent eb02
07-31-09, 10:05 AM
first day back and now a CHECK ENGINE LIGHT !

GOTTA LOVE IT

CIWS
07-31-09, 10:08 AM
first day back and now a CHECK ENGINE LIGHT !

GOTTA LOVE IT


Have any idea what for yet (code) ?

brent eb02
07-31-09, 10:09 AM
Interesting info, to be sure. The RWHP, RWTQ, & 13.5 PSI is not all that bad but it would be nice if you could get rid of that drop. That drop in RWHP & RWTQ appears to be noticeable enough that it could be felt during an all out run. Hopefully Jesse and / or SCT can get it all squared away for you. Many thanks for posting up, too. Now people know what they can expect.

ohh you feel it alright

brent eb02
07-31-09, 10:10 AM
Have any idea what for yet (code) ?

no idea

i have no way of checking that....my tuner is 90 minutes away

CIWS
07-31-09, 10:12 AM
If you have a local Autozone they will read the code for you.

This is just my personal opinion, but if you're going to run a modded car I would invest in a code reader. I bought one when I had the 05 CTS-V. They're as cheap as 30-50.00 Mine was 119.00.

brent eb02
07-31-09, 10:18 AM
If you have a local Autozone they will read the code for you.

This is just my personal opinion, but if you're going to run a modded car I would invest in a code reader. I bought one when I had the 05 CTS-V. They're as cheap as 30-50.00 Mine was 119.00.

thanks for the heads up ! where did you buy it?

i have had many modded cars 04 single turbo gto ran 10.50's and an 02 z06 ran 10.16 with a n/a 427
and my 7 sec chevy II nova

but this is just a pulley and tune...

jwa999
07-31-09, 10:36 AM
^^^^^
You can read and clear the code with your hand held

Razorecko
07-31-09, 10:52 AM
yea read it with the sct....I want to see a manual run with the same mods on a dyno - There is a good chance that somehow the torque limiter is restricting higher levels of boost in order to preserve the integritiy of the transmission. I think alot of people might not fully understand the HUGE level of "nannies" in current day sports vehicles. Especially in auto's

brent eb02
07-31-09, 10:55 AM
yea read it with the sct....I want to see a manual run with the same mods on a dyno - There is a good chance that somehow the torque limiter is restricting higher levels of boost in order to preserve the integritiy of the transmission. I think alot of people might not fully understand the HUGE level of "nannies" in current day sports vehicles. Especially in auto's

im thinking the same thing

brent eb02
07-31-09, 11:13 AM
^^^^^
You can read and clear the code with your hand held

i just hooked up the hand held and here are the codes

P 1101
p 0000

i have no idea what they mean the hand held did not have a discription

if any of you guys know what those codes are let me know

thanks
Brent

CadV
07-31-09, 11:21 AM
P1101 (Intake air flow system performance)

Try adjusting your MAF sensor. Sensor needs to be at least 5 inches after a bend and of course w4me intake does not fit this. I would try moving the MAF to the top basically where it will come in contact with the most air.

Razorecko
07-31-09, 11:21 AM
i just hooked up the hand held and here are the codes

P 1101
p 0000

i have no idea what they mean the hand held did not have a discription

if any of you guys know what those codes are let me know

thanks
Brent

Was the tune loaded w/ the acc turned to 'ON' and not the engine running ? - also check the maf on the intake, for damage, etc rescrew it back onto the intake. Clear codes.

CadV
07-31-09, 11:25 AM
Thanks for all the info Brent. Hopefully people start to realize we are not making this up.

Be nice if Jesse responded.

I am dissecting my extra blower today to see if there is anything in there out of the ordinary.

brent eb02
07-31-09, 11:25 AM
everything was install by one of the best ls1 tuners in the U.S i didnt install anything.
jesse's tune is in .

TAGZO
07-31-09, 11:30 AM
Thanks for the post!

from what i see, your car is very rich at low RPM! i think you can get +50 rwhp! just fine tuning is needed. if you have an HP tuner in hand send me the file for me to check and I might be able to help out :) fuel is not the only thing, what about knock retard? you have any?

Razorecko
07-31-09, 11:34 AM
was this tune made directly on a dyno or was it an em tune ?? It needs to be tweaked some more - too rich at the start and too lean at the end

brent eb02
07-31-09, 11:35 AM
Thanks for the post!

from what i see, your car is very rich at low RPM! i think you can get +50 rwhp! just fine tuning is needed. if you have an HP tuner in hand send me the file for me to check and I might be able to help out :) fuel is not the only thing, what about knock retard? you have any?

i dont have hp tuner

i have the tune from jesse which is efi live

i think its more than a fuel problem too

i did take it for some 0-100 mph runs last night and it was pinging at the top of 3rd gear...........NOT GOOD

CIWS
07-31-09, 11:36 AM
thanks for the heads up ! where did you buy it?



^^^^^
You can read and clear the code with your hand held

Sorry brent didn't see you had the handheld for the tunes to be able to read the codes with, as Hans chimed in on. I assumed you were running a separate tuned ECM. :)

TAGZO
07-31-09, 11:37 AM
P 1101 "Actual measured airflow from MAF, MAP, EGR, and TP is not within range of the calculated airflow"

brent eb02
07-31-09, 11:41 AM
was this tune made directly on a dyno or was it an em tune ?? It needs to be tweaked some more - too rich at the start and too lean at the end

this is the W4M tune for the 8.5 and 2.55 pulleys

i have tried for 2 weeks to get an updated tune from jesse.

jesse said 2 weeks ago...send me the graph and i will make changes and send it back...that was on july 17th when he got my graph...

im tired of calling and hearing the same thing

TAGZO
07-31-09, 11:42 AM
P1101 in HP Tuner says "Maf air flow sensor out of self test range"

chopmeat
07-31-09, 11:55 AM
My opinion is that you have to actually go to a tuner and let them do the work there.
Then when things like the check engine light come on you have to go back.
It's crazy trying to do this by mail!
And for my two cents, I don't trust those cartek guys or their numbers.
I've been there.

brent eb02
07-31-09, 11:56 AM
i think cadv had the same problem

aceofblitz
07-31-09, 12:02 PM
I just remembered the SRT8 days, we didn't even have tunes until a few years later when they released the diablo predator. and we freaking DIED for a dyno tune. I had a guy come all the way from Australia to tune my car. You guys will never know how lucky we are to have a lot of things so early. Im fully aware that there are a lot of road bumps this early into the game. but thats the way it is. Those numbers are not bad, but I believe you have more power buried inside that monster and the only way to get it is through a dyno tune. wait4me's tune was mainly a transmission tune + a tune so that you'd be able to drive your car around without it exploding on your face on your way to the dyno shop or until you find the time to go lol.
Best of luck bro, hope you get things sorted out.

Razorecko
07-31-09, 12:35 PM
I just remembered the SRT8 days, we didn't even have tunes until a few years later when they released the diablo predator. and we freaking DIED for a dyno tune. I had a guy come all the way from Australia to tune my car. You guys will never know how lucky we are to have a lot of things so early. Im fully aware that there are a lot of road bumps this early into the game. but thats the way it is. Those numbers are not bad, but I believe you have more power buried inside that monster and the only way to get it is through a dyno tune. wait4me's tune was mainly a transmission tune + a tune so that you'd be able to drive your car around without it exploding on your face on your way to the dyno shop or until you find the time to go lol.
Best of luck bro, hope you get things sorted out.

Yea tell me about it, coming from a jeep srt8 it took a solid 2.5yrs to get anything worthwile in the market. Problem is not many people are tuning/tweaking these v's yet and seems like Jesse is probally swamped with work. Though guys that have all these pulley's & mods bought of him should have top priority in recieving tune updates/tweaks

haterinc
07-31-09, 01:05 PM
i can't recall, but i wish jesse would weigh in here because i thought in a thread he said he had some autos that were hitting the 590ish mark...? so much has gone on about this, that i can't remember it all, but even from day 1, we all know that the manual will get more to the wheels than the auto... still even at 560 that is a HELL of a nice pull. smooth that curve out at 4k and enjoy it man!

brent eb02
07-31-09, 01:20 PM
i would love to be able to do that...

but look at the missing boost im down 4-5 lbs
with this current pulley

and with the 8.5 pulley im down 3 lbs

any suggestions?

radix
07-31-09, 01:42 PM
i would love to be able to do that...

but look at the missing boost im down 4-5 lbs
with this current pulley

and with the 8.5 pulley im down 3 lbs

any suggestions?

You can determine if it is the bypass preventing boost above what you are getting if you can remove the covers from the blower and look at the end of the bypass actuator bellcrank

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@per/documents/content/ct_167917.jpg

if it is fully closed, then that is all you are going to get - if it is opening due to p-valve or ecm, then you can proceed to find out which.

you are already at almost 24,000 Rpm at 6500 with the 9.05/2.55 pulley - since you are so far past the blowers peak efficiency range, (8-12K). you need to expect less and less boost and more and more heat for every rev you put into the blower.

You need to understand - at some point, the additional power you put into a blower will do more to heat the intake air than it will to pressurize it. Stock runs in the mid 70% thermal eff. - your set up at peak HP/rpm will be down in the 50%'s IMO.

TAGZO
07-31-09, 01:43 PM
I will show you guys what might happen to the dyno with no dip!!! :)

TAGZO
07-31-09, 01:45 PM
This is a photo shop of the original dyno :) i just took of the dip!

brent eb02
07-31-09, 02:08 PM
You can determine if it is the bypass preventing boost above what you are getting if you can remove the covers from the blower and look at the end of the bypass actuator bellcrank

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@per/documents/content/ct_167917.jpg

if it is fully closed, then that is all you are going to get - if it is opening due to p-valve or ecm, then you can proceed to find out which.

you are already at almost 24,000 Rpm at 6500 with the 9.05/2.55 pulley - since you are so far past the blowers peak efficiency range, (8-12K). you need to expect less and less boost and more and more heat for every rev you put into the blower.

You need to understand - at some point, the additional power you put into a blower will do more to heat the intake air than it will to pressurize it. Stock runs in the mid 70% thermal eff. - your set up at peak HP/rpm will be down in the 50%'s IMO.


radix
the bypass actuator is fully closed and we also tested the throttle position on the TB and it is not closing either

you make some great points thanks

CadV
07-31-09, 03:45 PM
My opinion is that you have to actually go to a tuner and let them do the work there.
Then when things like the check engine light come on you have to go back.
It's crazy trying to do this by mail!
And for my two cents, I don't trust those cartek guys or their numbers.
I've been there.

cartek got nothing to do with this mess, they simply installed the parts. This is all on Jesse.

CTSV_510
07-31-09, 03:48 PM
You probably have a check engine light because you added more boost and didn't get tuned for it.


Why don't you have yourself some hair-pulling and just have cartek fix it? Isn't it worth a couple hundred bucks to have your car running right?

I wouldn't have the patience to wait for Jesse on this.

CadV
07-31-09, 03:50 PM
You can determine if it is the bypass preventing boost above what you are getting if you can remove the covers from the blower and look at the end of the bypass actuator bellcrank

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@per/documents/content/ct_167917.jpg

if it is fully closed, then that is all you are going to get - if it is opening due to p-valve or ecm, then you can proceed to find out which.

you are already at almost 24,000 Rpm at 6500 with the 9.05/2.55 pulley - since you are so far past the blowers peak efficiency range, (8-12K). you need to expect less and less boost and more and more heat for every rev you put into the blower.

You need to understand - at some point, the additional power you put into a blower will do more to heat the intake air than it will to pressurize it. Stock runs in the mid 70% thermal eff. - your set up at peak HP/rpm will be down in the 50%'s IMO.

Good post...

The whole point I am sharing this info is to simply prove that Jesse is not being straight with us and save people the headache.

Do I believe his dyno of 600rwhp? No I don't unless I see a continuous video and a mechanical gauge.

Do I believe the promise of 600rwhp with 2.55 upper and 8.5 lower? No because it has been disproved with 2 different cars. The more guys that come forward the more obvious it will become.

Do I believe this car can go from 9psi to 15psi in boost? No I don't because of the points in your post radix.

I am going to post some pictures of the guts of the blower.

brent eb02
07-31-09, 03:56 PM
You probably have a check engine light because you added more boost and didn't get tuned for it.


Why don't you have yourself some hair-pulling and just have cartek fix it? Isn't it worth a couple hundred bucks to have your car running right?

I wouldn't have the patience to wait for Jesse on this.


jesse tune is for 15-16 lbs i only have 13.5

i will have to have it tuned by someone else and sent this hand held back

CTSV_510
07-31-09, 04:01 PM
jesse tune is for 15-16 lbs i only have 13.5

i will have to have it tuned by someone else and sent this hand held back

If you're not going to have cartek do it, go to rave proven motorsports in claymont, de. Right over the commodore barry bridge from you in NJ.

Call Fran and he'll help you out.

1-2-N-V
07-31-09, 04:18 PM
This is a photo shop of the original dyno :) i just took of the dip!

Who's car is this? this looks like 600 RWHP to me.

brent eb02
07-31-09, 04:23 PM
Who's car is this? this looks like 600 RWHP to me.

dude ....its photo shopped...its what it should look like if my car was running properly

1-2-N-V
07-31-09, 04:34 PM
Um OK you said that. My name is right next to gullible in the dictionary

PSRmark
07-31-09, 06:17 PM
Brent,

If you can and want, call me on monday or something I have a few questions about your dyno graph...it looks like the car is going in to protection mode and there are a few reasons for this...most probably not related to the tune in the car but factory safety margins built in.


562-988-2090

just ask for me

PSRmark
07-31-09, 06:20 PM
I'm also going to the dyno in an hour with a manual car with our pulley upgrade...I'll let you know how the boost graph compares to the Auto one

brent eb02
07-31-09, 08:24 PM
thanks Mark

i appreciate your help

and i didnt spend thousands of dollars with you.:histeric:

jwa999
08-01-09, 12:28 AM
This is a photo shop of the original dyno :) i just took of the dip!

I see you used the same setup from w4m. Did you also use his full intake?
I guess the issue with the MAF sensor can only be resolved by a custom tune like you did.

photo shop? wtf?

brent eb02
08-01-09, 12:41 AM
I see you used the same setup from w4m. Did you also use his full intake?
I guess the issue with the MAF sensor can only be resolved by a custom tune like you did.

photo shop? wtf?

yes i have w4m full intake and jesse's tune

chopmeat
08-01-09, 12:50 AM
If you are in Jersey, go to the Vette Doctors on Long Island!!
I did my Z06 there and my V was re-tuned there after headers.

brent eb02
08-01-09, 12:53 AM
If you are in Jersey, go to the Vette Doctors on Long Island!!
I did my Z06 there and my V was re-tuned there after headers.

is your car an auto or manual?

what were your dyno numbers?

jwa999
08-01-09, 01:26 AM
yes i have w4m full intake and jesse's tune

Actually, I was inquiring about TAGZO's ride. He mentioned he always tunes his own car. From reading his posts, he got the 8.5 and upper pulley from W4M.
Just wondering what he had to do to get his tune just right.

TAGZO
08-01-09, 04:55 AM
Actually, I was inquiring about TAGZO's ride. He mentioned he always tunes his own car. From reading his posts, he got the 8.5 and upper pulley from W4M.
Just wondering what he had to do to get his tune just right.
I did not install any parts yet :( within a week or two max, I will be in vacation :D so I will work on my car and see what numbers I can get. From what I see, I think Brent will hit 600 rwhp.

TAGZO
08-01-09, 07:19 AM
Brent,

If you can and want, call me on monday or something I have a few questions about your dyno graph...it looks like the car is going in to protection mode and there are a few reasons for this...most probably not related to the tune in the car but factory safety margins built in.


562-988-2090

just ask for me
Yes, it is going in protection mode, P1101 most likely it is because of the MAF max limit!

PSRmark
08-01-09, 07:41 AM
thanks Mark

i appreciate your help

and i didnt spend thousands of dollars with you.:histeric:

no problem

I dynoed that car last night and it made 11 psi of actual usable boost as compared to the auto we did that had 10.6. That could be just a temp and or humidity factor though. I will look closer at each boost graph when I get back to the shop on monday.